New Navy force will take the fight upriver in Iraq

[beachmom]

That's right, folks. The next generation of Swift Boat like forces will be in Baghdad within a year, as reported by The Virginian Pilot:

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=102789&ran=88511

[davepc]

1. The Navy had a big dog fight with the Army to take over brown water AOA

This is the first Navy attempt at fielding a force that can handle the job.

After Vietnam the Navy focused on the Blue Water mission and littoral coastal/river combat was all but ignored.

The Army knew it still had to operate in and along inland rivers so they developed their own capability. But now with the "Global War on Terror" and the Navy having to justify its budgets fighting the war, all the sudden operating river patrol boats became very attractive all over again. Lets hope the remember more then they forgot since the days when navy fast attack craft patrolled the Vietnamese deltas.

The Marines never forgot how to do this sort of stuff, but since the Navy didn't care for the mission (and Marines don't drive boats) they focused on other tasks.

[liberal N proud]

2. What the hell, is the Navy upset that they are not getting their share of

the casualties?

Upset they are being left out of this desert war?

[lovuian]

3. No this is a way to get navy forces in Iraq

they need military troops and this is the way to get them in...

[beachmom]

5. Good point, plus this helps the careers of many in the Navy

I am not a military person, so someone else may know better, but isn't combat experience a necessity for big promotions? I just can't believe this, after reading Tour of Duty and The Long War of John Kerry, how devastating their patrols were, why they would want to start this up again. It will be very dangerous in Iraq, too.

[davepc]

7. The Navy is run by nuke submariners and carrier pilots.

To them "combat experience" is dropping a few bombs or launching a cruise missile or two.

I don't think commanding a fast attack craft with maybe a crew of eight is going to help when your peers (promoting wise) were flying jets or running a submarine.

Just look at how many SEAL officers are now the Admirals running the Navy.

[beachmom]

10. Thanks for that info. I didn't know.

But in the article it mentioned that a lot of sailors want to do the job, because there is more freedom than being on a ship or aircraft carrier. I think they're crazy, but that's just me.

[arewenotdemo]

27. No. You're not crazy.

By all indications this IS what freedom means to most Amerikans...whipping thru the desert or along the river with the absolute freedom to blast any and every living thing to eternity.

Go NAVY.

[MrPrax]

6. No...

They don't NEED military troops...they NEED to leave--NOW

[saigon68]

37. A new Opportunity for the resistance to kill a few rustics

A floating target at the Carnival shooting gallery --- How Delightful

This should add a few more


"BRING EM ON" shouted the AWOL CHIMPANZEE posts by me this coming year



IDIOTS.

[acmejack]

4. Since they are sending Sailors in as replacements for Army, why not?

Sooner go on a boat than walk...

[corporatemedia]

8. "I joined the Navy to see the sea, and what did I see I saw the .......

SAND???"

[ECH1969]

9. Swift Boats in Iraq?

Did the Navy or the Army man the Swift Boats in Vietnam?

[beachmom]

12. Well, I know Kerry was Navy, but I don't know about the other guys. n/t

[gordianot]

14. Navy all the way. A few Marines if I recall correctly.

[BrotherBuzz]

15. Navy

[davepc]

16. Both, but the Navy drove and manned the (swift)boats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Riverine_Force

In 1965 somebody in the pentagon realized that if the Navy wanted to be involved with the war in Vietnam they would need to carve out a mission on the rivers and harbors in South Vietnam.

They did a crash course to develop a boat that could handle the mission and developed a cadre of officers and NCO to man the things, and went off to war.

Of course the Army didn't want to give the Navy full control over the river, and kept their finger in the pie as much as possible.

History is repeating itself.

Just this time the Navy is getting its shit together 3 years after the fact, instead of about a year or so before the worst of it.

[gordianot]

11. The first boat should be named the "Sand Pebble".

[beachmom]

13. Well, don't forget about the Tigris and the Euphrates!

But the Mekong Delta it is not.

[gordianot]

17. This was among the most dangerous duty in Vietnam 100% casualty.

Everyone was wounded one time or another. Remember the free fire zones. John Kerry's stomach must be churning on this one.

[davepc]

18. The Army has been operating this mission since 2003.

http://www.defendamerica.mil/archive/2004-11/20041130am1.html



RIVER PATROL — U.S. soldiers from the 502nd Engineer Company, 130th Engineer Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division, patrol the Tigris River near Tikrit, Iraq, Nov. 16, 2004. U.S. Army photo by Spc. James B. Smith Jr

see also: http://www.construction.com/NewsCenter/Headlines/ENR/20030606a.asp






The Navy just wants their turf back.

[gordianot]

19. Interesting turf war, bet someone in the Navy has built a bigger boat.

Thanks,

[davepc]

22. or wants a bigger slice of the budget pie

At the end of the day this is about getting another slice of the defence department pie cut for the Navy instead of for the Army.

FWIW, I think the Navy *SHOULD* be doing this job, but since the late 1970's the Navy's admirals had a pretty sharp disdain for anything that didn't have a nuclear power plant pushing it through the open sea. The kind of warfare the United States is engaged in changed almost over night and the Navy never bothered to even try to adapt to it before the fact. So now they're playing catch up.

The Army just sort of farms out the river patrol mission to units on an ad-hoc basis.

You area of operations have a section of river in it? Congrats, you now have a riverine force. Get some volunteers and learn how to drive one of these boats the Marines lent us. That's why we have everything from combat engineers, to 1st Cav, to reservist playing swift boat on the Tigris.

At least the Navy will have a standardized doctrine, equipment, training, and command and control.

This is, however, another glaring example of the failure that is the Rumsfield defence department.

The Navy should have seen this coming.

[beachmom]

20. Thanks for the info! Is it a fairly safe duty or very dangerous? n/t

[TomInTib]

23. See my reply #21

I wouldn't wish that Hell on anyone.

Iraqi rivers, however, are a good bit wider than where I was.

[beachmom]

26. Thanks. My question about the Iraqi rivers is:

Is it as infested with the Iraqi insurgency as the Mekong Delta was with the North Vietnamese? Like you said, if the rivers are wider, then it is (hopefully) less dangerous than the missions you were on in Vietnam. I'm sorry you had to go through that. Glad you came home alive, and are now here educating those of us who were too young to remember Vietnam. Thank you for your insights.

[TomInTib]

32. And they're not using plywood boats.

I would imagine it will be mostly security patrol, not kill missions like we pulled.

And we wore zero body armor. Zero, zip, nada.

[jeff5]

34. I'm Just Guessing, But I'll Bet the Navy

Won't be using slow bridge erection boats...

A long time ago I used the 502nd's AVLB bridges for vehicular decontamination stations.

[TomInTib]

21. You are so right. I was there.

I was pilot of a PBR assigned to 2nd Marine on the Qua Viet River - the northernmost river in S Vietnam.
We also did longrange recon and target extraction.

Over 27 months, only 12 of 68 of us made it back.

All but 4 of us (and I was one of the lucky ones) were not on disability.

[gordianot]

24. .For those of us who have not experienced this it is hard to imagine.

We should never forget those who were and are there.

[karynnj]

28. OMG

I knew the casualty rate was incredibly high, mainly from Tour of Duty, but those numbers are insane. The officers had to be insane to have continued without making changes. That must have been hell on earth.

Listening to the RW dismiss Kerry's wounds and praise the bravery of (sometimes) flying airplanes in the TANG must have been paiful to people like you who lived through those times.

[TomInTib]

33. The Swiftboat asses made me ill. And that was funded by my ex's

cousin, Bobby Jack Perry of Houston.

It wasn't just the officers, we were all crazy.

But I did have the pleasure of pointing my shotgun at John Warner's sternum from a foot away.

[karynnj]

35. Pointing your gun at Warner

Wasn't he the secretary of the Navy then?

[TomInTib]

36. Yep

And it was hilarious.

[arewenotdemo]

30. You mean to get back in the fray?

He still has us on a rightful mission versus the "insurgency", doesn't he?

(not that I didn't vote for him...)

[SoCalDem]

25. Gee..Corsi & the swiftboat liars should go as advisors

They seem to have all the answers, and are super-patriots:)

[karynnj]

29. Doesn't O'Neil owe them more service?

He's really well trained. He could even get a purple heart like the ones he mocked.

[gizmo1979]

31. Maybe Bush can try his hand

at it.Maybe he'll understand what Kerry went through.Or maybe those attacking swift boat captains.