Flight 93 cockpit struggle to be played in 9/11 trial

[Robb]

Flight 93 cockpit struggle to be played in 9/11 trial

A 30-minute recording from the cockpit of United Airlines Flight 93 — the jet that crashed into a Pennsylvania field on September 11, 2001 — will be played publicly for the first time today.

The tape will bring to a close a week of unsettling evidence intended to show the personal impact of the September 11 attacks in the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui, the only man charged in connection with the atrocity in the US.

The recording is expected to convey the struggle of the passengers on board Flight 93, who, according to the 9/11 Commission, fought their hijackers, forcing them to crash the aircraft into the ground rather than fly it into the White House or another target in Washington.

According to extracts from the recording published by the Commission, the flight was hijacked at 9:28am on September 11, 46 minutes into its scheduled journey from Newark, New Jersey, to San Francisco.

(More)

[Roland99]

1. 4+ years later we finally hear it. Took them that long to create a tape?

[dailykoff]

60. They had to make the movie, too. (n/t)

[benburch]

2. I believe they were shot down even as they struggled.

And this would have been a totally reasonable thing for the US Military to have done.

The reason that they never admitted to this is because they could hardly use "Let's Roll" as a political bon mot if people knew that the passengers were shot down on the verge of taking control of the aircraft.

[PeterPuck]

4. I agree with you completely.

Early reports from the cell phone calls from flight 93 reported smoke in the aircraft which could have been caused by a missile strike. These reports totally disappeared once the news of the passenger revolt came out. It became a convenient distraction from what really happened.

Not that I blame the Military for shooting the plane down...nor am I taking anything away from the passengers bravery.

[benburch]

9. The tape has been released because it does not prove a shoot-down.

Nothing you would hear on this tape would be different were the aircraft intentionally crashed as they claim, or shot down as likely happened.

I hope the Officer who fired the missile is OK. I can imagine the Bush Administration getting rid of him in some convenient fashion.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

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[coalition_unwilling]

57. If you're really paranoid, you might even think the military

had all the more reason to shoot 93 down because, if passengers actually had taken control of the plane, the hijackers' true identities might ultimately be revealed, thus helping unravel at least a portion of the "official narrative."

This is a point Griffin makes in "The New Pearl Harbor." I say we have an epistemological crisis. And it has already assumed or will soon assume the same dimensions as the epistemological crises surrounding the assassination of JFK.

[librechik]

11. the coroner never found any wreckage or blood at the crash site

so tho a shootdown makes sense, we don't yet have the right kind of evidence--and now the tape. this will be interesting if brutal.

(I got the no-blood- or wreckage story from that New York Magazine "Mysteries of 9/11" article a week or so ago--stunning--I think it was there--now I can't find it.)

[Name removed]

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[Cessna Invesco Palin]

23. Does it bother you AT ALL...

...that you are linking to a site that takes its cues from a holocaust denier?

[Name removed]

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[Cessna Invesco Palin]

49. That site links to essays by David Irving.

Not exactly a credibility enhancer.

[PeterPuck]

51. Thank you

Although, I am not sure if I agree with that reason since I don't know who he is or what he has written. Also, just because they link to something does not necessarily mean they agree with it.

Oh well, rules are rules.

[saigon68]

33. adios

[Name removed]

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[Cessna Invesco Palin]

50. Because it's a conspiracy site.

It is only permitted to link to conspiracy sites in the 9/11 forum, and even then I'm not sure it's OK to link to sites that associate themselves too closely with right-wing extremists, but I'm not 100% sure on that point. You'd have to ask a mod for clarification.

[PeterPuck]

52. thanks again

I did see the part about conspiracy sites in the rules. I wasn't even sure if this post fell into the 911 forum or not.

The information I was referring to is not necessarily a conspiracy though. The media reported a big chunk of an engine or fan (pretty much intact) hundreds of feet away. As well, there was debris miles away at a lake. This was in all the news.

[Roland99]

34. It was also mentioned in the latest version of "Loose Change"

[Name removed]

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[hedgehog]

37. Depending on how the plane hit the ground, you might not find

anything but a hole.

The producers of the movie chose to show the hijackers wearing bombs strapped to their bodies. I wonder how speculative that storyline is. It makes a lot more sense than the notion that the planes were actually hijacked by people waving box cutters around. If there were explosives aboard the plane itself, it may also explain some of the facts that have led people to believe there was a shoot down.

The sad thing is that Bush has lied so often we wouldn't believe him if he said the sun came up this morning.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

39. If the hijackers had bombs strapped to their bodies,

Why would any of the passengers think that they could take control of the plane?

They knew it was a suicide mission at that point (some of the passengers knew about the WTC/Pentagon attacks); so why would you try to rush suicidal men with bombs strapped to their bodies thinking that you could retake control of the plane.

That doesn't make any sense.

[aikoaiko]

42. They might not have wanted to passively wait for their death.

:shrug:

For some people, it is better to die trying to live than to let someone else make the decision for you. You, apparently, are not one of those people.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

53. I guess not

My concept of preservation of life does not include an unarmed assault on anyone with a bomb strapped to their chest.

[aikoaiko]

65. Even if you thought the plane would be flown into a building?

Which would kill you and many more people?

[benburch]

62. And it assumes facts not in evidence. nt

[Bacchus39]

18. what were they supposed to do with the plane once they

took control?? could they fly it? no.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

22. Didn't the rebelling passengers ID a pilot who was a passenger?

Or am I thinking of some old Doris Day movie?

[aikoaiko]

44. As bleak as their chances were, still better than with the terrorists

in the cockpit that day.

[Big_Jake]

45. try to land it!

They had the rest of their lives to try to land that plane if they gained control of it. If they hadn't tried to retake the plane many more might have died as a result.

[slackmaster]

48. Far better to go down with a fight

We don't know whether any of the passengers could have flown it or not.

[benburch]

54. Could they fly it? YES.

An air transport is not all that hard to fly, especially once you get on the radio and call for help.

The flight attendant would probably know how to tune the radio.

And I know for fact that I could fly that aircraft because I have simulated that type so many time in flight simulator.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

21. And it would call attention to the fact that

the only plane out of the 4 that day that they managed to shoot down was the one that maybe didn't need shooting...

[henslee]

35. So it was just a marketing decision, not an evil conspiracy. I'm relieved.

[benburch]

55. The evil conspiracy was when they allowed the hijackers to board.

They KNEW these guys were planning a hijacking. They NEEDED a hijacking as an excuse for war with Iraq, and to allow the PATRIOT act (already written) to be passed.

LIHOP or HIHOP.

At the minimum it is Let It Happen Through Depraved Indifference.

[henslee]

66. Thanks for naming the new third party...the Depraved Indifference party.

[benburch]

67. Huh?

What you talkin' 'bout, Willis?

[henslee]

68. ....

[teenagebambam]

3. About all the testimony this week.....

....is it really necessary? I mean, is there anyone in America who did NOT feel personally impacted by 9/11? Is there any doubt that Moussouai is a bad person?

[MADem]

7. I'm with you, but they think frying a crazy man will make them feel better

A crazy man who would be dead ALREADY if he had actually participated in the events of that day.

I just don't see this as justice; more like retribution. I say lock the guy up, but if they think killing him is going to give anyone satisfaction, I think they'll be disappointed.

[bunkerbuster1]

28. It will give some people great satisfaction.

Unfortunately, those people are the very Islamic fundie nut-cases against whom we're supposed to be at "war."

[coalition_unwilling]

58. Not even retribution, more like "cruel and unusual punishment"

embodied. If you spent any time at all following details of the M case, you would have to have concluded that (whether part of al Quaida and whether part of the 9/11 plot), M was and is definitely mentally ill.

Has our country reached the point where we will put mentally ill people to death to assuage the emotional needs of crime victims? Un-friggin-believable!

[chelsea0011]

13. But it is possible that he really had very little to do with the 9-11

attacks. He may or may not have been part of the original plot. So where is his cell? He mentions Reid conveniently but has never been shown to even know Reid or has been with him at all. He may, as the defense says, that was part of al Qaeda originally but was tossed out early because he's a nut case. In that case, we are executing someone who had nothing to do with 9-11 and may or may not have had information about 9-11. The bottom line is why is there even a death trial going on here. The government, like McVeigh, wants him dead fast. Hell, as I posted a couple of weeks ago, Mike Fortier was more complicit with McVeigh about Oklahoma City than Moussaoui has ever been about 9-11, and he is walking a free man now.

[paparush]

5. They were blown out of the sky....shame we'll NEVER hear the

recordings from the other three planes...even though all of the black boxes were recovered (to the best of my knowledge)

[Name removed]

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[WePurrsevere]

12. My DH knew the gold (etc) was there, he worked in the world of banking and

it's been one of the many things that bugged him about 9-11. I posted in the Sept 11th area here and from what folks posted and Loose Change it sounds like what he had heard is true.. it wasn't all "recovered" and as he has said, "you know darn well the gov would never leave all that gold, etc buried like that so where is the rest of it?" Just another unanswered question to things that don't add up if you use the disinformation of our gov.

I'd like to hear what is really on those other black boxes, see the original undoctored security films confiscated and have others who are in the know ungagged (like Sibyl Edmonds) so they can tell the truth of what they know. Someday , hopefully soon, this whole thing will open up wide and reveal all the things hidden by our gov.

[WinkyDink]

8. Completely irrelevant to this trial and this man.

Plus, aren't judges supposed not to allow such jury-inflaming tangential "evidence"?

[MADem]

10. Well, some say the inflammatory testimony will be grounds--strong grounds-

for an appeal.

[Laughing Mirror]

14. Yes it is completely irrelevant

But then this so-called trial has been a travesty of justice, an absurd Kafkaesque show trial from the very beginning.

Sentencing to death a patsy who had nothing to do with the events of 9-11.

[wtmusic]

15. Wow, I kinda forgot how bad those terrorists can be...

let's nuke Iran!

[DemoTex]

16. The law protects all CVR data from public disclosure.

Transcripts or mock recordings can be released, but not the raw CVR data. ABC News got burned a few years back by playing the CVR recordings of American Airlines flight 965 (Boeing 757) that crashed in the mountains near Cali, Colombia in December 1995. The Colombian government, pissed by criticism from the US government, gave the CVR product to ABC News. ABC News, unwisely, aired the recordings of the final minutes of AA 965. American Airlines' Allied Pilots Association and ALPA (Air Line Pilots Association) pressured the US government to penalize ABC for violation of US federal law.

CVR recordings can legally be played in a closed court, but not "publicly." When CVRs are released to the public is when every airline pilot worth salt joins a nationwide S.O.S. (suspension of service).

On edit: As an ALPA-trained airline accident investigator, I have listened to numerous CVR tapes. It is always a heart-wrenching and stomach-turning experience. You never, ever want to hear the last words of the crew of Palm 90 (Air Florida) as they met their fate in the icy Potomac on January 13, 1982. Ditto many others that I have had to listen to.

[HuffleClaw]

17. what a joke

playing something that has nothing to do with the trial. this example of bushco. 'justice' is such a joke. they could have easily convicted him of assorted offences, but noooo, they had to make it a show trial. and this 'recording', i wonder how long it took them to MAKE it.

[90-percent]

19. Speaking of Justice

I hope that every person in the chain of command in the FBI and CIA goes on trial for NOT DOING THEIR JOBS and preventing 9-11 in the first place.

Any person in such a position is every bit as guilty as Moussaoui. There is no justice until such people are held to account for their dereliction of duty.

-85% Jimmy

[Radio_Guy]

24. They couldn't prevent 9/11

They were planning and executing it. Moussaoui is just the scapegoat, the sacrificial lamb to be executed to make the rest of the country "feel better."

:puke:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

30. Mhmm...

[underpants]

38. I don't know about them making it but this is very strange

What does 9/11 have to do with Mousouai? Even the 9/11 report said he was a stooge that KSM thought it better to let him sit in Minnesota rather than his causing a fuss as they tried to pull him out....sorry I got away from the main point...


HE WAS IN JAIL ON 9/11 FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!!!

He didn't have anything to do with it this is nothing but the Feds claiming to have got "one of them" and MSM carrying their water for them AGAIN.

I understand that some 9/11 families are using this to vent but this isn't about 9/11 this isn't "The 9/11 Trial" HE WAS IN JAIL what this is is proof that W&Co were asleep at the wheel they were already planning the Iraq war and they DID NOTHING to prevent 9/11 that we know that is established fact by those inside the administration, NSA, FBI, CIA and the Pentagon. THIS IS FAILURE SITTING RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR STUPID MEALY MOUTHED FACES MSM!!!

Geesh. Every day I see the reports I shake my head. I think I should use the 6:30 half hour as I did last night--- Go shoot some hoops it clearly achieves more than watching the newest talking head read the RNC's altered reality and citing "The Bush administration" as a credible source.

[gauguin57]

25. CNN sez judge will release written transcript (not tape itself) to media

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/12/moussaoui.trial/index.html

... The cockpit recording "captured the sounds of loud thumps, crashes, shouts and breaking glass and plates," the commission said.

Under siege, Jarrah can be heard asking, "Is that it? Shall we finish it off?"
Another hijacker responded, "No. Not yet. When they all come, we finish it off.'"
Jarrah resumed pitching the plane up and down.

"In the cockpit! If we don't, we'll die," a passenger can be heard saying on the recording, according to the commission. Seconds later, a passenger yelled, "Roll it," according to the commission, in a possible reference to the drink cart passengers might have been using to ram the cockpit door.

Again Jarrah asked, "Is that it? I mean, shall we put it down?"
"Yes," another hijacker responded. "Pull it down."
The passenger assault continued. "Pull it down! Pull it down!," a hijacker can be heard shouting, according to the commission. The airplane then headed downward and rolled onto its back. The recording reveals one of the hijackers began shouting, "Allah is the greatest. Allah is the greatest!"

[DemoTex]

26. See my post #16.

It has to be a transcript. Federal law protects all CVR recordings from public disclosure.

[gauguin57]

29. They've already played the part of the tape where the hijackers say...

... "we have some planes ..." etc., on the news. The recordings made by the air-traffic controllers of what the hijackers were saying in the cockpit (when the mic was on and they didn't know it).

And I'm trying to remember when they put the rules in effect about not releasing cockpit recordings ... because I remember they USED to play the cockpit recordings on the news (like the D.C. crash you mentioned ... I remember that cockpit recording very clearly, when it was played on the nightly news. chilling!).

[DemoTex]

31. ATC tapes are not protected.

Air traffic control radio tapes are often played publically and attributed to the cockpit voice recorder (CVR). But remember, the FAA DESTROYED some of the ATC tapes on 9/11! Why?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

41. They were speaking English???

Or is that a translation?

I can't really imagine a "devout" Muslim shouting "Allah is the greatest" in English right before he dies.

There's already so much that doesn't add up about that day, but that just seems way out of place.

[Bacchus39]

43. it was a translation

n/t

[Swede]

27. Todd Beamer heard going "Roll it,roll it"

A reporter from CNN at the trial was reading her notes. Intense stuff.

[leesa]

32. I wonder if this is the authentic black box recording or is it made at the

recording studio that puts out all the fake OBL tapes.

[mike923]

40. That's the neat thing...

it's whatever you want it to be. If you don't believe in the story, then of course this tape has been doctered. If you believe in the "let's roll" story, then the tape is legitimate.

In this day and age, you can believe whatever makes you happy.

[hedgehog]

36. Just to add a little linguistic info,

In the Rust Belt, it's quite common for someone to say "Let's roll or Let's get rolling" to indicate starting machinery, getting into a car, leaving on a trip, starting a project, etc. I've never been able to decide if the original reference is to starting a train rolling or to starting a (steel) mill rolling.

The phrase did not originate on Flight 93.

[Pastiche423]

56. Some years ago a tape was aired

supposedly of the last few minutes of Flight 93. Noise/muffled voices were heard until 10:03 am. Then the sound of rushing air.

Doesn't anyone remember this?

[Name removed]

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[lovuian]

63. Those tapes are doctored and I won't be seeing the movie

Flight 93

I feel like its all one big set up...

[judaspriestess]

69. You are probably right

No airplane can fly in the opposite direction for 46 minutes and no one knew about it. As soon as a plane deviates from the flight path air traffic control WILL know + airlines are required to check in like every 10-20 minutes. I am a former flight attendant, I experienced the PROCEDURES first hand.

WHERE IN THE HELL ARE THE AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS????