Transcript: Flight 93 cockpit tape (BBC)

[eppur_se_muova]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4904600.stm

Mostly not comprehensible without being able to see what's going on. I wouldn't have enjoyed being in the courtroom when the actual tape was played.

[Atman]

1. Oh, come on now!

I just watched a segment on CNN about it. Supposedly the last thing the hijackers said was "ALLAH IS THE GREATEST!" And then what, they did the wave and bumped chests? Given all we know about the mysterious debris field and the "cell phone" calls, this is just one more "Jessica Lynchy" sounding bullshit to me!

But then, BushCo has made me a cynic about everything. I don't believe the sun has come up anymore unless I look out my window first.

[eppur_se_muova]

2. Muslim fighters ALWAYS shout 'Allahu akbar!' (God is most great).

What's unbelievable about that?

[Atman]

3. "Allah is the greatest"

sounds like a lame Christian's interpretation of "Allahu akbar!"

They didn't say it was "GOD IS MOST GREAT" or "Allahu Akbar!"

It was "GOD IS THE GREATEST!" They forgot the "WOOT!" afterwards.

[slackmaster]

4. Consider it all a big fucking joke at your own risk

:nuke:

[Atman]

6. Discount every differing opinion at your own risk!

Fascism is real, too.

[Atman]

11. My point is...

Yes, two separate posts. One is the snarky comeback. But this one is more "real."

Are you a scholar in Arabic language? You offered a translation that doesn't actually translate. I understand what you said, "ALLAH is great," whatever. But the translation doesn't say that. Sure, maybe it is a bad translation. But from everything I've read, and I admit it is limited, but "Allah is the greatest!" is a distinctly different translation from "God is most great." If the government was just trying to dumb it down for us morans, WHY? Wouldn't they serve their own purpose better by supplying the most literal interpretation available?

Look, I admit, maybe I am totally 100% wrong. But I am dealing with a lying liar in BushCo. I trust nothing. If they had any record of telling the truth in the past then maybe I'd be more willing to accept this translation without question. Whose fault is that?

[slackmaster]

12. Frankly the distinction sounds like a nit to me

I don't care if they were saying "Allah is just all right with me".

I care only about their actions.

[Atman]

13. So then...since you brought it up...

How did they cause the plane to disintigrate and spread debris for miles and miles before the plane actually hit the ground?


Hey...you are the one "only concerned about their actions."

[Ediacara]

27. *If* the terrorists were indeed trying to make the plane go up and down

in an effort to make the passengers get away from door or puke or something, could it not be possible that the high speed aerobatics would create enough violent wind force that the plane started to disintigrate before ultimately crashing?

I'm not saying this is the answer, but asking a legitimate question to pilots/aerospace engineers/people in the know/etc. Is it possible for that behavior to start to disintigrate an airplane?

[Dr.Phool]

30. As a private pilot.

Yes, it is possible to manipulate the controls violently enough to cause the plane to break up in flight. One of the first things you're taught, is if you encounter severe turbulence or bad weather, reduce speed to maneuvering speed. That's the speed at which you can manipulate the controls to their maximum deflection to maintain control, without the wings, tail, etc coming off.

[Kingshakabobo]

41. Agreed........See: The long Island AA crash days after 9/11.

They knocked the tail off by applying too much rudder.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

49. Right. And then the engines fell off all by themselves.

[Kingshakabobo]

54. I'm not going to argue LIHOP or MIHOP but don't make me laugh.

Yes, engines can fall off an airplane when pushed beyond the envelope. The 757 isn't rated for aerobatics.


Edit: forgot to mention.. the American Air flight I mentioned DID encounter engine separation prior to crash. Most likely, the tail was first and finally the engines.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kingshakabobo]

85. Being a pilot, I guess I figure I know a little more about airplanes....

....than the average person. Like I said, I stay out of the LIHOP MIHOP threads cause they bring out the rude in people but I couldn't pass on blatant misconceptions. Engines CAN separate during extremely violent maneuvers. That's all.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

94. LOL.

My MIHOP is bigger than your MIHOP. You're saying this stuff to a pilot?

[Kingshakabobo]

108. What did I miss? LOL......damn it. n/t

[flyarm]

93. wait one minute...there were many lies about this crash! what else is news

shortly afdter this crash the head of NTSB got on NY news and bold faced lied..and she was followed by Pataki who carried on her lies for 2 days...

NTSB agency chairwoman Marion Blakey lied on television and with media after the rockaway crash...if she didn't lie..then she was unqualified to be chair of NTSB...and Pataki kept the lie or ignorance up..for 2 days with all media...

that aircraft was an A300...an AA A300..that aircraft had no capability to dump fuel and yet MS BLAKEY said and it was confirmed by Pataki on all media that the A300 dumped its fuel before crashing..well that is totally bullshit..because that plane has no dumping capabilities!,..period the end!

i used to have all of Blakey's quotes and Pataki's quotes..and arricles but most are dead links now...

but i found one still live link..

when i heard them go live on NY TV that night i was screaming at the tv...THAT PLANE CAN'T DUMP FUEL!!!!!!!!!!

SO WHAT ELSE DID THEY LIE ABOUT??

well i can tell you Americans pilots were walking away from flying the plane till they got some answers on how the tail came off that plane!

( i am a now retired flight attend. with said airline..and i was based in ny! and still flying at that time..i flew out of all 3 ny airports..)


Islam Online- News Section
Pilot Dumped Fuel Before Crash, Indicating Mechanical Failure ... The American Airlines Airbus A-300 slammed into a residential district of New York City ...

http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2001-11/13/article2.shtml


The NTSB is the lead agency because all the information we have currently is that this is an accident," agency chairwoman Marion Blakey said.

Pilot Dumped Fuel Before Crash, Indicating Mechanical Failure



NEW YORK, Nov 12 (IslamOnline & News Agencies) - In the first bit of hard evidence regarding today's airplane crash, New York Governor George Pataki announced that the pilot of the doomed flight dumped fuel into Jamaica Bay seconds after take off, signaling that he became aware of a catastrophic mechanical failure.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

105. I don't know what the hell you're smoking...

...but A300s most certainly CAN dump fuel.

[flyarm]

111. Jim McKenna: What happened to American Airlines Flight 587?

Jim McKenna: What happened to American Airlines Flight 587?
November 13, 2001 Posted: 2:41 PM EST (1941 GMT)

Jim McKenna is the Executive Director of the Aviation Safety Alliance, and a former editor on the staff of "Aviation Week & Space Technology" magazine.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/COMMUNITY/11/13/mckenna.cnna/index.html

snip:
CHAT PARTICIPANT: Why did the pilot dump his fuel?

McKENNA: The reports of the pilots dumping fuel are erroneous. There's very little likelihood that any pilot would have had time during such a short flight to dump fuel. Furthermore, my initial information is that the A300 does not have the capability to dump fuel.

CHAT PARTICIPANT: Do you think there's a possibility that the reverse thrusters were engaged during takeoff?

McKENNA: It's not likely that the reverses were engaged. During the takeoff that should have been a detectable problem. Investigators will want to determine whether the thrusters might have deployed during the short flight.

CHAT PARTICIPANT: Is it not unusual that an engine falling off could cause the plane to come apart as it did?

[flyarm]

112. Technical Wizardry and the Media

http://letters.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2006/01/13/askthepilot169/view/

Ask the pilot
Live on network TV: Yet another insignificant flight incident!
By Patrick Smith <2006-01-13>


Technical Wizardry and the Media
As an aircraft maintenance professional (30+ years at 2 major airlines, about to retire), I cringe at all media reporting of aviation events. Inevitably, they turn to pilots and airline executives for explanations of the unfolding disaster. I would, for once, like to hear the perspective from someone who actually understands "how" the airplane works, i.e. an aircraft maintenance professional. Pilots know "what" the airplane does: they rarely know "how".. airline executives tend to know nothing but cost figures.

Commercial airplanes today, while admittedly more advanced than the crop of 30 years ago(the 727's, DC-9's and -10's, L-1011's, 747-100 thru -300), are basically crude machines that do what they do with only marginal improvements in efficiency than their earlier breathren. The greatest economies have come from the automation that allowed fewer cockpit crewmembers (eliminating the flight engineer)and eased the intense workload of the two-man crew, as well as jet engine improvements that heightened fuel economy marginally. To an airline that operates thousands of cycles of day, marginal improvements add up to big bucks. It unfortunately sets up an environment that when problems occur, the pilot is forced to deal with the problem, sometimes of his own making, then accurately report to maintenance what happened. This often results in "operational issues masquerading as maintenance problems" and it is this description that hits the media and makes the first impression, only to be unraveled months, if not years, later in the official accident report, generally out of the public's earshot.


*******************read this last paragrah and last sentence!


I still remember the pilot (and media expert) interviewed on CNN during the American Airlines A300 crash in November 2001 authoritatively stating "the pilot was obviously dumping fuel." A300's of that model have no fuel dumping capability.

-- bgrasso

[Kingshakabobo]

126. I don't understand your point? Was the BFEE responsible for that crash?

[flyarm]

91. bull..thats just the story you were told! ( about Rockaway crash) n/t

[flyarm]

90. you are getting pretty "hot'..do read about "EGYPT AIR" CRASH

please do read about the Egypt Air ..crash ...it was a 767 and this was a 757 but same computers on both planes..they react the same way..

please people read about the EGYPT AIR aircraft and what happened in that plane ..with an "EXPERIENCED PILOT " at the helm!

see what happened when he tried to keep pushing the aircraft down!

fly

[slackmaster]

33. I'm not an expert on flight dynamics

:shrug:

Their actions did lead to the loss of the plane, whether they flew it into the ground, executed a maneuver beyond the airframe's capability to withstand, or drew fire from the US military.

[shance]

16. And all this time I thought Ali was the greatest.

:shrug:

Where is proof this tape is valid?

[Atman]

17. They only had three years to play with it!

Gimme three weeks with my Macintosh, and I could produce a tape convincing you your grandma was singing Karaoke with Donald Trump. And have time left over to dub a few fake phone calls.

[greyl]

21. That was a Muhammad Ali joke, fyi. nt

[SlavesandBulldozers]

74. uh

:spank:

[Harper_is_Bush]

55. You're nitpicking synonymous translations and suggesting a conspiracy

over it?

Do you believe the US government flew the planes into the towers by remote control?

[0rganism]

120. The difference between "the greatest" and "most great" seems minor to me

"God is the greatest" vs "God is most great" :shrug:

Comparing the two side by side, I have to say I'd prefer the first for its straightforward grammar. If I were making an official translation, I'd probably pick "the greatest", avoiding the archaic construction of "most great".

[alcibiades_mystery]

39. It is clearly a bad translation of Allahu Akbar!

"God is most great," or - in bad translation - "God is the greatest." I see no reason not to believe these were the last words of Islamic fundamentalists steering a plane into the ground. It is thoroughly consistent with Islamic practice to say this in times of great stress, danger, or inspiration.

[Igel]

117. Trewely, me thinketh that "most great" hath too much the

ayre of writings both archaic and obscure.

Crap, nearly wrote 'swa' for 'that', but then I'd have been screwed when I got to 'much' and didn't know the AS word for it.


The "the" in "God is the greatest" is, like, just too vernacular, y'know? They go round all the time sayin' "Dude, Zeppelin's the greatest!" Dunno who 'they' are, but they do.

How about a fairly neutral "God is greatest", or since many see a difference between the Muslims' 'Allah' and the usual English referent for 'God', "Allah is greatest."

The crucial point is that they at least innovated some translational weirdness and didn't use the usual mistranslation "God is great."

[alcibiades_mystery]

123. I would dispute the non-translation of Allah

Allah is the Arabic word for God. It is not a name. To leave it untranslated is silly and ideological.

[frylock]

51. god rulez -- # 1

let us roll.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

76. lol

God is 2 Wycked.

[marylanddem]

5. Why the hell did they play this in court? What does it prove?

[stray cat]

8. This is the penalty stage - they need to prove people suffered

from 9-11. Shouldn't be too hard to prove.

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. Sounds like these guys couldn't figure out up from down

How the hell did one of their buddies ever find the Pentagon, no less fly a plane into it.

More proof that the official story is a crock of shit.

[DS1]

9. Supposedly they were trying to rock the plane up and down

violently enough to make it impossible for the passengers to make their way to the front.

[greyl]

14. GPS

They are made to be easily programmed after only a few hours training.

I'm not impressed with your standards of proof.

[frylock]

52. so did gps allow for that amazing turn that was executed..

in order to hit the Pentagon?

[file83]

67. Your answer is "GPS"? LOL that's a good one.

:rofl: Yeah, it's easy to just program the "GPS" to hit a building anywhere you want! I'm sure they teach that in flight school and that planes have that as standard software (hitting buildings)! :sarcasm:

[FiveGoodMen]

10. Do we know that it's the actual tape?

They've had a lot of time to create a fake one. And there are no living witnesses from the incident.

[greyl]

15. What would convince you that it's authentic? nt

[Atman]

18. Producing it in a timely manner, before Bush was polling at 12%

Just sayin.

[greyl]

20. So, nothing then. Oh well. nt

[Atman]

23. Oh well.

Neener neener neener, I can be snarkier than you-oooooo.

[greyl]

25. I'm not being snarky.

There's simply no use in continuing this discussion because you've said there's nothing that will prove to you that the tapes are authentic.

[Atman]

26. That is BULLSHIT

Absolutely there is! But I must DEFINE FOR YOU first? I don't know what it is, because I haven't seen it/heard it yet. I know what reeks of total bullshit. Show me something that doesn't reek of total bullshit, and I'll listen.

[greyl]

31. Oh c'mon, man.

I asked you if there's anything that would convince you. You're answer is all I have to go on.

see ya

[Atman]

35. How convenient! It all works out for you!

:eyes:

I said, show me something convincing. To you, that means there IS nothing convincing, I guess.

You can convince me. Just show me something that is CONVINCING? What is so difficult to understand about that concept? I am to assume that you just don't think there is a convincing argument to be made?

[alcibiades_mystery]

40. Ding ding

No proof will suffice, so why bother.

[acmejack]

83. How about the Black Boxes record of the flight profile?

Would it not demonstrate that the in flight maneuvering was or was not of an intensity that would cause airframe failure? There are a lot of incongruities about the Flight 93 crash that simply do not jibe with the official story.

Have you read anything at all by Dr. David Ray Griffin?

[anotherdrew]

113. why the hell would you trust anything comming out of the bush junta?

It may be real, maybe... Doesn't seem right tho, at no point does any of the 'hijackers' say a word about where to go or anything.

they seem lost in a cockpit...

[FiveGoodMen]

50. I don't know whether it's authentic or not, but...

...what convinces you that it's authentic?

[Pastiche423]

19. There was another tape

Audios of it were on the internet a few years back.

[high density]

34. Parts of it had been released already

I remember a Flash animation that featured air traffic control desperately trying to get in touch with UA93... You can see that conversation in this transcript.

[Ediacara]

22. WTF

I thought these guys all went to flight school. Most of this seems to be them asking eachother how to fly the plane....

[The_Casual_Observer]

24. And to think that none of this would have happened had jr been

paying any attention at all to terrorist threats in 2001.

[Rex]

28. Just saw a commercial for the new flight 93 MOVIE.

It sickens me that people make money off 9/11.

[Atman]

29. Yes, the GOP sickens me, too!

Who has made more money of 9/11 that the republican party?

[Rex]

32. That's why I believe in LIHOP.

GOPers have no souls or morals. What's 3,000 people compared to billions of free money to Dick Cheney?

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

70. NO WAY that it's LIHOP--no way in the world

When Marvin Bush (Chimp's brother) was in Charge of the Security at the World Trade Center,
and in the weeks before
the "crash" there were "exercises" going on which made parts of the build off limits-
then all the money made on the stocks-


No Way it was LIHOP!!


It had to be MIHOP

and then some

[goclark]

88. And did anyone EVER put Marvin on the stand

and ask him how he just happened to be in charge of Security?

NOPE!

Correct me if I'm wrong but MARVIN needs to answer a few questions ---- 5 years after the fact!

Where is old Marvin anyway,drinking martinis in Saudi Arabia with 29 dancing girls ticking his toes?

[dchill]

101. You don't have to choose...

LIHOP was obviously working with MIHOP. And then some.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

104. More rubbish.

Marvin Bush was not "in charge of security at the world trade center." He was associated with the company that ran some of the security systems at the WTC. An ENORMOUS COMPANY WITH TENS OR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CLIENTS.

Stop spreading disinformation.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

110. --Marvin BUSH?---yes he certainly did have CONTROL over the WTC Security

Yeah-- sure buddy-
that's just a "coincidence"-

sarcasm off:
The WTC security activity during the two weeks before 911 was extremely suspicious-
But funny, no one ever asked anyone in security to explain just exactly "what" they were doing-
Or to explain why all bomb sniffing dogs were removed.

911 was an inside job-

Ever heard of an inside job Bank robbery?
No one ever freaks out and screams "conspiracy"when someone suggests that a greedy Bank employee
could be involved in robbing the Bank they work for!

And finally--for those who think the truth would be leaked by such idiots--
Anyone ever heard of the 7 man theory?
it only takes seven people to actually "know"--
the rest work without knowing details-standard espionage tactical procedure-
in case someone is "captured" they can't reveal the details because they won't know them-
They will only know their "part" of the operation and have no clue about anything else.
The 7 man theory =only 7 people need to keep their mouths shut and the truth need never come out.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

114. Is there something wrong with the 9/11 forum today?

Is the server down? Why is it that any LBN story remotely connected to 9/11 is immediately hijacked by the MIHOP hive mind?

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

121. why don't you go there and find out

LBN - transcript and audio of fake tape released to public-
linked to the fake "everything else in this Admin.
From WMD's to fake terra attacks(911)
figure it out yet?

[Rex]

127. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Negroponte, Bolton, Perle, Wolfowitz

is all it would take.

[Realityhack]

128. There is a problem with that theory

I don't realy want to start a flame war and will probobly not even come back to read responses. But I just thought I would point something out.

The 7 man theory is for keeping enough operational details from the enimy to allow the mission to succeed.

If you are claiming for example that explosive charges where set to bring down the WTC for use in conjunction with the plane crashes you have a slight problem. Unless Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Negroponte, Bolton, Perle, or Wolfowitz personaly planted them somebody did. That person would not necisarily know the rest of the operation. But would inherently know enough to blow blow the whole thing sky high after the fact. Its not like he is going to think it was a coinkidink that the towers came tumbling down the weak after he drilled and explosived them.

The same goes for a lot of the other things that some people claim about 9/11.

In addition in a lot of cases I am suprised that people are simultaniously claiming that the greatest conspiracy ever devised was perpitrated with all kinds of super advanced technology and practicaly miraculus precision... but that somehow a whole bunch of details where forgoten. ie. they faked a plane crash but rather than explain to people that cell phones don't work at altatude they faked a bunch of calls thereby leaveing teltale evidence? Seems a bit hard to fathom.

I am not saying I beleive the government I know they lied about a lot of stuff, I am just saying that I think many of the conspiracy theories are far from holding watter.

[smitty]

36. Oliver Stone has a 9/11 movie coming out in the near future.

[anotherdrew]

116. everyone involved with THAT MOVIE can kiss my ass forever

how fucking DARE they?

[Realityhack]

129. I totaly agree.

Fuck them and everyone like them.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

37. I'm curious where this cockpit tape was found....

...because there was very little left of Flight 93 in the impact crater that was bigger than about three or four inches square. How did the so-called flight recorder box survive an impact of that magnitude?

Additional debris was found along an eight-mile path leading to the impact crater, to include one of the plane's engines, but is extremely doubtful that the flight recorder was among that debris.

[Atman]

38. Gawd, you're such a cynic!

After all, they found Mohammed Atta's passport, unscathed, lying in the middle of the street in NYC. Maybe even his loose-leaf notebook with pencil sketches of the attack plan!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

48. I'm surprised they didn't "find" him

...on a nearby roof completely unscathed and still sitting upright in the pilot's chair with a personal note from Osama in his shirt pocket.

Well, okay...maybe that's a little over the top! :-)

[ronnie624]

103. Crossing the Rubicon by Micheal Ruppert

If you have not read this book, may I suggest you do so. It contains meticulous and compelling reconstructions of the movements and activities of the hijackers in the months leading to the 9/11 attacks as well as the flurry of media reports afterward regarding suspicious stock market trades, thwarted investigations within the FBI and warnings from intelligence agencies throughout the world of the impending attacks (including specific warnings from Vladimir Putin who referred to such in an interview Sept. 15 on MSNBC).

There were most certainly elements within our own government that facilitated these attacks. Those who disagree with this statement do so out of complete and total ignorance of the facts which they scrupulously avoid and perhaps more than a little puffed and strutting confidence in their own "knowledge".

I watch for your posts. Good luck to you.

[frylock]

53. not atta's, but satan suqami's passport was the one that was found

fyi...

[Kipling]

42. Flight recorder boxes are built to survive crashes.

They are designed to withstand over 1000 degrees centigrade and up to 3400G of decceleration

[Media_Lies_Daily]

46. Right. That's what were told, anyway. How many crashes....

...result in the flight recorder box not being found at all?

[kath]

66. ONLY the 2 crashes at the WTC. Very conveeeenient, eh??

[flyarm]

96. none! n/t

[Jacobin]

43. "impact crater three or four inches square"?

My gawd I've run out of aluminum foil.

You do realize that is smaller than the space you are typing these comments on, don't you

[Media_Lies_Daily]

45. Read my post again...this time carefully and slowly.

[Kingshakabobo]

56. I read it.

"in the impact crater that was bigger than about three or four inches square."

I guess it depends on the meaning of "BIGGER THAN" eh? Is is.

[Guaranteed]

60. It depends on what the subject of the sentence is.

In this case, the subject is the debris of the crash, not the crater. Therefore, the "bigger than about three or four inches square" modifies the debris, not the crater.

It's proper English, and should be entirely readable to anyone that reads on a regular basis.

[Psephos]

65. It's not proper English, it's ambiguous construction

"I'm curious where this cockpit tape was found...because there was very little left of Flight 93 in the impact crater that was bigger than about three or four inches square."

The modifying clause ("in the impact crater") should have been moved or reworked to make its referant clear.

Example: I'm curious where this cockpit tape was found...because Flight 93's impact crater contained almost no debris bigger than three or four inches square.

The original does not parse cleanly, contrary to what you said. I had to read it twice myself. That's the writer's fault, not the reader's.

Far more important than this grammatical teacup tempest, though, is the notion many on this thread have that the jet couldn't have broken up in the air without being shot down. The ignorance of physics and aerodynamics needed to believe that is the real test of who does and does not read on a regular basis.

Peace.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

82. Give the grammar issue a rest. The vast majority of posters...

...on this board, like myself, are responding quickly due to time constraints.

Only a truly ignorant person, or someone trying to be deliberately insulting, would interpret my post as indicating that the impact crater for Flight 93 was three to four inches square.

The notion that some DU posters have in regards to what really happened to Flight 93 is amazing in light of the fact that eyewitnesses on the ground told a story completely different from the official version. According to the eyewitnesses, the plane did not crash straight into the ground at high speed as claimed by the official story. The eyewitnesses also stated that they saw flames coming from the plane's fuselage as it flew by overhead. The eight-mile trail of debris along Flight 93's flight path leading to the impact crater simply cannot be explained away as the plane breaking up as the result of a vertical plunge into the ground.

I'll disregard the rest of your personally insulting remarks as a non-player based on either a total ignorance, or total disregard, of the eyewitness testimony. Have you noticed that credible eyewitnesses are are almost always disregarded by those cobbling together "official stories"?

[hack89]

58. Aren't flight recorders in the tail of the aircraft ..

specifically to increase the odds they will survive a crash?

[0007]

75. Like finding Atta's passport a few block away from the WTC

after he crashed the plane into the building.

The tape is as smelly and stinky.....

[Roland99]

99. They should have released a transcript right away, like is normal, eh?

4 1/2 years later we find out?


sheeeeeeeet.

I trust the contents of that tape as much as I do the PNAC

[oblivious]

130. MIRACULOUSLY part of the passport of one of FL93's hijackers was found.

Crater:


Hijacker's Passport: (Mind you his facial features seem to have changed)

Two Ziad Jarrahs. The photo on the right is from the wreckage of Flight 93. (Source: FBI)
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/searchResults.jsp?searchtext=jarra&events=on&entities=on&articles=on&topics=on&timelines=on&projects=on&titles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on&search=+Go+

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cosmicdot]

47. ratcheting up fear ... drum beats of war on Iran ...

guess no one is falling for the fake Osama tapes/pictures anymore ...

you go to war with the propaganda you have ... not the propaganda you might want or wish to have at a later date ...

add this to today's 'headline' about Iran might be able to produce a nuke in 16 days and Kindasleazy Rice's 'time for strong steps' over Iran ...

fake, real ... whatever ... the tape's release helps to keep Americans scared ...


Memorable Quotes by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld

"We do know of certain knowledge that he is either in Afghanistan, or in some other country, or dead."

"As you know, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time."

"I would not say that the future is necessarily less predictable than the past. I think the past was not predictable when it started."

"Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war."

"I believe what I said yesterday. I don't know what I said, but I know what I think, and, well, I assume it's what I said."

[HuffleClaw]

57. suuuuuuuuure

complete garbage imo. how long did it take 'em to make this one i wonder. i bet it won't take long for some enterprising soul to debunk this using some good audio equipment.

[ConcernedCanuk]

59. Military shot down Flight 93, plain and simple

.
.
.

It may have just been a plane off course or without adequate communications, but the Admin was in a "terra" mode, and shot down it's own citizens out of fear.

I have not seen any definitive evidence of the purported cell phone calls from flight 93, and the Admin has been known to coerce citizens to give false evidence, or hide legitimate evidence "in the interests of National Security", which means "OBEY or ELSE!"

Gestapo-like tactics alive and well in the USA

(sigh)

[Guaranteed]

61. If they didn't, they sure as hell should have.

Something like 100 minutes after the first plane hit the WTC.

[elcondor]

63. Yes, that's the thing

I would HOPE that the people supposedly protecting us (the military, not the administration) would have figured out that the plane needed to be stopped before a group of civilians did. No offense to the passengers, of course. I don't buy the story that they ALL got together, got into the cockpit and crashed the thing themselves. But if they tried to take control of the plane and the plane was shot down before they could do so, that doesn't make them less courageous, in my opinion. I don't see why if that's what really happened (shot down) it would shake people's perceptions so greatly. :shrug:

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

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[Sarah Ibarruri]

62. These whackos sound mentally ill....

However, even more mentally ill are Repugnicans. For example, the mental midget, Bush, who sat around "reading" My Pet Goat upside down to kids, as the Twin Towers and the Pentagon were hit by terrorists. What on earth does it take to oust this @$$hole, for chrissakes???? Is bj the only word Repugnicans respond to?

[NYC]

64. It wasn't really upside down.

Bush certainly did sit around doing nothing when he should at least have been making a pretense of doing something. When he finally finished sitting around, he flew around protecting himself. After that, it was photo ops all the way.

However, I wanted you to know that the upside down book picture was photoshopped. It's pretty easy to see after someone points out what is photoshopped about it.

I'm not saying Bush can tell the difference if the book has words in it.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

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[QuettaKid]

73. good discussion of this going on over in the 9/11 dungeon.

frankly, I am amazed this one has stayed out in the light as long as it has.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x81680

Interesting points about the timing of the Jeremy Glick phone call.

[ALago1]

77. Question

Wouldn't the recording capture all dialogue up until the crash occured? If so, why did these guys not metion the fact that they were plunging at rapid speed towards their death? Or is that part conveniently destroyed/unavailable?

[smb]

78. At Trial, Flight 93 Myth Finally Becomes Reality

Full article in Washington Post, 4/13/06:

It began with a muted series of thumps from a sharp knife or maybe clenched fists. The sounds were muffled but unmistakable, one body blow after another, ending with a squishy thud.

"No, no, no, no, no. No," came the high-pitched voice of a crew member or flight attendant being subdued. " . . . Please, please don't hurt me," the person said later. " . . . I don't want to die." The desperate plea, captured by the cockpit voice recorder of United Airlines Flight 93 on Sept. 11, 2001, was played to a transfixed jury yesterday at the death penalty trial of Zacarias Moussaoui.

A foreign-accented voice, increasingly agitated, screamed: "Down. Down. Down!" as the whacking sound continued. Then there was silence. "That's it. Go back," a hijacker said calmly. "Everything is fine. I finished."

And with that, Flight 93 from Newark banked left toward Washington. But the terrorists would not strike their target that day because they were beaten -- as the voice recorder made clear -- by the passengers, who fought back. The 32-minute tape recounts an epic struggle as passengers surged forward to retake the plane using whatever low-tech weapons they could find....

I give 4-1 odds that this guy is gonna fry.

[acmejack]

79. Reality?

I suggest that was some of the finest fiction ever created for public consumption! Total bullshit. Crazy as a loon Moussaoui will undoubtedly "fry" as you so charmingly put it, to satisfy this Country's blood lust, but I maintain that tape is better fiction than Tom Clancy has ever written...

[calico1]

80. He wants to "fry."

He is doing everything in his power to get the death penalty and die for Allah. Me, I'd rather he rot in prison and be forced to eat ham sandwiches for the rest of his life.

[wakeme2008]

81. Well he was in jail at the time

and FBI DC was not listening to what their field offices were telling them.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

84. To what "reality" are you referring? Those passengers never....

...got into the cockpit of that plane...the tape is totally inconclusive on the point.

Additionally, Cheney had give the order, three distinct times, to shoot down any plane not obeying the instructions to land immediately. It is that order that I believe resulted in the shooting down of Flight 93, which created the flames that eyewitnesses saw streaming from the fuselage, as well as the eight-mile trail of debris leading to the crash site.

To cover up what the NeoCons believed would be an unfavorable response by the American public, they created the heroic fiction that the passengers had somehow broken into the cockpit causing the hijacker-pilot to lose control of the plane.

[flyarm]

97. Media_Lies_Daily...you are the closest!! those passengers saying

lets roll( hmm) ...did not climb on the wing and knock the engine off 8 miles prior to the crash...

this story is all bullshit!

and coverup!

fly

[twaddler01]

86. All of this questioning of the authenticity just goes to show

how much the * administration has changed things these days...sad stuff.

[savemefromdumbya]

87. yeah right, flight 93 went back to the airport - how about flight 93X?

what a load of rubbish! you can fool all of the people all of the time!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

106. Ermm...

...huh?

[savemefromdumbya]

124. Things occurred that day that were not reported

[wordpix]

89. I still wonder why there was no debris around the crash site---just a

burning hole in the ground. Same with the Pentagon explosion. No pieces of the plane, just a burning hole.

[novalib]

92. Actors

Remember "Wag The Dog"??

I would put nothing -- ABSOLUTELY NOTHING -- past the thugs we currently have running OUR government.

Everything ius just a bit too convenient for my taste -- the "heroes" who tried to overpower the flight, and no mention of any fighter jets in view. And most of all -- the "hijackers" saying paryers to Allah in Arabic.

If you want to fan the flames of Christian and American hatred, and enlist them in a fight against "terror", that's exactly how you would do it.

Anyone notice the timing of this tape's release -- just as Condy and Bush are trying to whip us all up in fear of Iran obtaining nuclear power.

It's all much, much too convenient.

[mike923]

98. Okay, but that just adds one more level....

say one of these actors participated, what would he have to be paid in order not to break the world's greatest cover up?

The amount of people involved to make this type of thing happen, at each and every level, is astonishing. If one of these people, on a bad day, slips up and tells their golfing buddy or their wife, the whole thing is shot and tens of thousands people involved would be immediately lynched.

I just don't see how an administration as bumbling as this one, could possible make all of this work. They're human.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

102. It doesn't matter.

The conspiracy theories are in no way grounded in reality. I honestly don't know how they manage to hold in their head SIMULTANEOUSLY the two notions that NORAD was intentionally shut down or hobbled on 9/11, and flight 93 was shot down by military aircraft. It's just absurd. It's the 21st century equivalent of the crazy man on the sidewalk ranting about the CIA causing the end of the world. It's nonsense.

[karlrschneider]

115. I have to agree with you there. And as a commercial pilot AND

graduate aeronautical engineer of over 40 years I have no trouble accepting any of -several- explanations for the "debris field", the "small crater", and so on. BUT I will not peremptorily rule out the -possibility- 93 was hit by an AAM either. I think the 'official version' has been embellished to a degree but when the theories drift away into parallel universes where the "real" flight 93 was secretly flown to some undisclosed location and/or that no airplane hit the Pentagon, I have to breathe deeply and slowly back away from that kind of stuff...
:eyes:

[novalib]

118. How Much Would You Have to Pay??

"Okay, but that just adds one more level....
say one of these actors participated, what would he have to be paid in order not to break the world's greatest cover up?"

I see your point.

But you would not have to pay anything if, after the actors made the tape, someone were to simply "take care" of the actors.

Remember -- the Bush regime is composed of thugs -- THUGS. They bomb and murder innocent people. Do you think for one minute that the lives of a few actors mean anything to them??

I don't.

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

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[Blue_Tires]

95. why wait this long to release it?

if it's real, that is....

i wonder what other pertinent info they are sitting on

[QuettaKid]

100. why hasn't this thread been banished yet?

I mean I thought all things 9/11 were automatically shunted off to the back room. what gives? Is it the BBC in the thread title? Is that all it takes to keep something out where eyeballs can see it?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

107. "I thought all things 9/11were automatically shunted off to the back room"

What is that supposed to mean?

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

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[Moderator]

131. Lock

Too much off topic discussion, flames, and thread hijacking