Iranian President insists 'Israel can not continue to live'

[Emillereid]

By Angus McDowall in Tehran
Published: 25 April 2006

<snip>
When a reporter for a US network asked if there were any concessions that would make Iran consider halting its uranium enrichment, he laughed and replied: "What concession could the international community make that would make your country give up its sovereignty?"

The theme of Western double standards played prominently in Mr Ahmadinejad's comments, particularly when he spoke about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. His comments appeared to be aimed at Muslims around the world, whom he has courted assiduously during his nine months in power with strongly worded attacks on Israel and support for the Palestinians.

"At the time of the Second World War, anti-Semitism was rife in Europe," he said. "If you support the Jews, what was that all about? You made Europe unsafe for the Jews and they sought sanctuary in Palestine. Now they live in a land that does not belong to them."

Mr Ahmadinejad has drawn fierce criticism in the West for comments last October that cast doubt on the Holocaust and for saying that Israel should be "wiped off the map". Yesterday, he said: "We say that this fake regime cannot logically continue to live." ..... <snip>

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article359954.ece

Is this a cosmic joke or what? The world seems to be led by totally insane people these days. Is this guy begging to get hit? He is providing the Bushits with their arguments to attack Iran.

[HuffleClaw]

1. *yawn*

more overblown coverage of overblown propaganda.

[Tight_rope]

My thoughts exactly...n/t

[Tight_rope]

60. My thoughts exactly...n/t

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

2. He represents the Iran fundy 20% or so, just like gwb, here. n/t

MKJ

[enigma000]

3. But more importantly, is this week's episode of "Lost' a repeat?

[IA_Seth]

35. I hear ya!

And yes, unfortunately I think it is!?

Well, not a repeat per se, but a condensed special to catch everyone back up (which they wouldn't have to freakin do if they would just do without all the dang breaks).

Anyone know for sure?

[LiberalVoice]

4. Oh the irony...

* is saying the same thing about Iran. :eyes:

[Terran1212]

5. He needs much better PR!!

He's playing into the neocons' hands with everything he says. They'll use his rhetoric to justify bombing Iran.

[roguevalley]

6. if he keeps that up, he'll be extinct too.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

23. That's what the NeoCon Junta wants us to believe, isn't it?

[951-Riverside]

48. "Believe" what Media_Lies_Daily?

[lovuian]

7. Its like he is egging Israel on...

I guess he thinks he will get 40 virgins...

[Minstrel Boy]

8. lost in translation?

We're given this quote with no context: "We say that this fake regime cannot logically continue to live," and the headline becomes "Israel cannot continue to live."

One could say about the Bush administration that "this fake regime cannot logically continue to survive." Is that the same as saying "America must die"?

Perhaps when translated, Ahmadinejad's rhetoric is subject to overinflation by parties interested in conflict.

[cantstandbush]

9. My thoughts exactly. n/t

[Oversea Visitor]

10. Hmm

you have nice well use grey cells.

[ronnie624]

14. Good call.

On such a controversial issue as this one, it would be wise to seek out alternative perspectives in addition to Western sources lest one be misled.

[TexasLawyer]

15. And he never seems to say anything

to the effect that IRAN will be the country to wipe Israel off the face of the map. Just that Israel is headed towards its own destruction.

Some economists predict "America will become a banana republic." The economists are not going to cause America's economic fate. That's just the way they are calling it.

(BTW-- I don't want either prediction to happen).

[Ghost Dog]

18. This is excactly what is happening

See detailed analysis (from Germany) here: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm

<snip>

It's becoming clear. The statements of the Iranian President have been reflected by the media in a manipulated way. Iran's President betokens the removal of the regimes, that are in power in Israel and in the USA, to be possible aim for the future. This is correct. But he never demands the elimination or annihilation of Israel. He reveals that changes are potential. The Shah-Regime being supported by the USA in its own country has been vanquished. The eastern governance of the Soviet Union collapsed. Saddam Hussein's dominion drew to a close. Referring to this he voices his aspiration that changes will also be feasible in Israel respectively in Palestine. He adduces Ayatollah Khomeini referring to the Shah-Regime who in this context said that the regime (meaning the Shah-Regime) should be removed.

Certainly, Ahmadinejad translates this quotation about a change of regime into the occupied Palestine. This has to be legitimate. To long for modified political conditions in a country is a world-wide day-to-day business by all means. But to commute a demand for removal of a 'regime' into a demand for removal of a state is serious deception and dangerous demagogy.

/more...

[sandnsea]

19. In the reverse

If Bush said of Iran, "this fake regime cannot logically continue to survive", would most of DU presume he meant it was time to bomb Iran?? Of course.

I don't know why people find such a need to defend these crazy regimes. No need to buy into it and go on a rampage, but denial isn't necessary either. It would be the boy who cried wolf in reverse, rationalize away the signs of a wolf's presence so many times that he finally eats your ass.

[daleo]

32. Well, the U.S. has a history of invading other nations

Iran doesn't. That's the main difference. Plus, Israel has the means for a massive nuclear counter-strike, should Iran ever obtain the means for a first strike on Israel, nuclear or otherwise. So the implied threats are not equivalent.

[sandnsea]

40. Well, yeah it does

Been fighting with Iraq and Afghanistan for years and years. The entire region has been funding terrorist attacks on Israel.

I didn't say the threats are equivalent, or that Iran was even as serious a threat as they're being made out to be. I said I don't understand the need to rationalize away the crazy things some of these nutty regimes say and do.

[daleo]

45. Iraq started that war, with Reagan's support

So, it isn't fair to compare that with invading another country. I don't know about Iran ever invading Afghanistan, although I suppose some border disputes have probably occurred. Again, that doesn't compare to invading countries halfway across the world, which is what the U.S. has done.

Funding groups that have used terrorist attacks on Israel is more significant, although still far short of a full-scale military invasion, which is what Bush has done twice, and is contemplating with Iran.

I just have my doubts about how "crazy" Iran is, based on the evidence of recent history (notwithstanding internal politics). This seems like propaganda to support a war mentality to me.

[sandnsea]

46. I wasn't talking about that

I was talking about disputes over islands many years ago, and disputes with Afghanistan. Border disputes, cultural disputes. Point being, ME countries are no more inclined to sit peacefully than any other region of countries. That doesn't mean we need to be meddling in all of this, but we also shouldn't pretend we're the only country with the potential of being a danger in the world. I just don't understand what's so hard to understand about that. If I had to choose, I'd choose to get rid of Bush before I got rid of ANY world leader, even the worst of the worst just because he is so completely wrong and has no chance of affecting peaceful change anywhere. He's horrible. But it doesn't mean that there aren't bad regimes in other countries too, including Iran. These are their words that are being quoted, they aren't made up and they aren't "lost in translation".

[daleo]

47. I will grant your point - all sorts of regimes can present dangers

That's just a fact of life, and I don't think reasonable people dispute it. It makes sense to be wary about Iran, given its religious dogmatism and antipathy to the west (although the west has caused much of this). I just think we have to be careful not to let those who want war to color our judgments too much. Another pre-emptive war could lead to a general disaster.

[Marie26]

57. Exactly

This guy is a rabid anti-Semite. That much is clear. But he's a rabid anti-Semite w/o nuclear weapons, who hasn't attacked Israel because he knows Iran would be the regime that could not logically continue to survive. I don't know why we have to pretend this guy is anything other than what he is.

[truth2power]

27. Thank you!! I was wondering, when reading the OP

why we never get CONTEXT and a credible translation. I see a lot of effort going into making Mr. Ahmadinejad look like a total nutcase. I think it's being driven by the "Nuke Iran" crowd. Fool me once....

And BTW, Minstrel Boy...your analogy is spot-on.

[Julius Civitatus]

36. Come on, that's a stretch. The guy's a loon

This Ahmadinejad guy has been saying the same thing and variations of this theme for months now. And he says these things every other day.

I think it's a stretch to assume he may not be saying what he's saying. It's clear the guy is very hostile to Israel, and he's been using every opportunity to call for Israel's end, to deny the holocaust, or to ominously predict that "the end of Israel is near."

The guy's a fanatical loon. I think you are giving him more credit than he deserves.

[alarcojon]

53. Exactly right

and which phrasing do you think will be favored by the right-wing noise machine? Hmmm, I wonder....

[Marie26]

56. Every time?

How often has he threatened to wipe Israel off the face of the earth? I've lost count. He seems to do it every time someone puts a mike in front of him. And to the doubters, he made sure to include a big banner in English that said: "A World Without Zionism." No mistranslation there.

[no_hypocrisy]

11. This guy must stay awake at nights, trying to come up with "a new one"

for each day in order to top his previous comment the day before. The only criteria he has is the new comment has to be provocative and that much more irritating.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

22. Which "guy"? The one supplying these quotes to the media....

...or the Iranian leader?

[no_hypocrisy]

25. The leader. He wants to be like *. n/t

[genieroze]

12. Another psycho megalomaniac speaks.

[jeffreyi]

13. Wonder if

he is positioning Iran to be a giant suicide bomber? The USA economy and prestige & military etc. the target, maybe Israel too? If the reports are to be believed...he seems to be egging everybody on.

[Andromeda]

16. Ahmadinejad should just shut his pie hole.

He is continuing to place himself in a negative light by his incessant, repetitive condemnation of Israel, the U.S. and anything Western.

The man is a totally deranged megalomaniac who has no business being the president of anything let alone a country the size of Iran.

Bush and Ahmadinejad should be cellmates.

[bdamomma]

24. Yes, and throw in that cell Saddam also

let them fight it out, and leave us out of it!!!!!!
sick bastards, little men with big toys.

[951-Riverside]

49. Don't forget to toss Bush, Harper and Berlusconi in that some cell!

:D

[ConcernedCanuk]

17. Even with nuclear bombing - Japan survived, and now thrives.

.
.
.

ANY nuclear aggression by the USA in the Middle East will immediately bring responses from China and Russia

and the eventual destruction of the "bully on the block" so to speak -

but the USA ain't even in their own block!!!!

They went half way across the globe to pick this fight

I'll bet Russia and China got a lot more weapons than we even know about

regardless

they won't put up with much more of the USA's aggression in their backyard methinks.

and Iran knows it.

[chevychase]

20. Ahmadamnjihadi is

quite a convincing mad man.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

21. I continue to be surprised at the number of people who continue....

...to fall for the same old demonization process that our government uses against every foreign leader we wish to replace. Look back at the last several leaders we've deposed, or tried to depose, through violence of some sort starting with Noriega of Panama.

I'm surprised we haven't read anything about the Iranian leader removing Israeli babies from incubators while carrying WMDs strapped to his back.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

26. It's his own words.

There are plenty of instances in which our government has said questionable things about Iran, but this is the man in his own words - not those of our government.

[laundry_queen]

30. Who owns the translating service?

Just sayin'
:shrug:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

33. What translation service?

It's not as if he's speaking a dead language.

[PATRICK]

31. Yes and those words

without the drama and spotlight preening, the stage of crisis and rallying, are pretty much the same as even the moderate leaders of Arab countries with few exceptions, voice publicly, routinely and which general attitudes are widely held among the majority of the population- if not the extreme commitment to violence and war or the strict fundamentalism. If it plays poorly to our audience infused with purposeful ignorance- too bad. Now that they have our attention- for select purposes against them- I doubt they will be inclined toward obsequious politeness and civility. The anger of frustration and pride matches what just might appear to them as gross hypocrisy and menace.

What works to play part of the Islamic heart also works to rile the Western majorities as a more cynical Bush administration orchestrates the whole old confrontation for their own ends. we put the drum under the drumstick, give the megaphone report the words, dramatize and comment on in the esteemed columns of hawkish newspapers.
cynical Bush administration orchestrates the whole old confrontation for their own ends. we put the drum under the drumstick, give the megaphone report the words, dramatize and comment on in the esteemed columns of hawkish newspapers.

Is any of this going to make Israel safer? Settle any of the issues? Do anything except lead to escalation and pretext for war? Ostensibly, isolated from anything but his own insular communist clique, the NK dictator is a bigger more dangerous loon and one easier to deal with because his rhetoric is not tied in with farflung populations and terrorist organizations. The nutty factor, the outrageous words, none of that is new or peculiar either in Iran or the rest of the world. It is solely taking the spotlight off the Iago on the sidelines that is the purpose of this American media drama, this farcical tragedy in the making, this artless propaganda for a nuclear demonstration against the world.

I don't care what a wonderful figure our Islamic Othello cuts as he succumbs to his flaws and passions at the behest of Bush's ill will and spiteful designs. I want the play stopped and the rantings let play only to the bored and resentful Iranian majority who could in good time deal with any conceivable issue were it not for the poisons cultivated by our press and foreign policy. desdemona could beat up the lout and make him sleep on the couch instead of getting murdered in her bed. Thanks Iago for augmenting marital strife into a grand story. In real life our Iago becomes a dynasty, his efforts rewarded by position and gold, the nation a shambles.

The very biggest losers in all this, if this unreal war is pressed, will indeed be the Israelis, no matter what small thing happens to the one mouthpiece currently in charge of the mullah's minority cause. It may well come about that the Jewish state will become simply untenable, nuclear shield or no,
just as the threats hope for, if this madness is goaded and enabled. The very things that Bush types desire will preclude ever coming to Israel's aid then, once the oil vanishes along with the desirability of the region. That is written in the soul of lies, in the persistence of hate by the rule of greed.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

34. ::sigh::

pretty much the same as even the moderate leaders of Arab countries with few exceptions, voice publicly, routinely and which general attitudes are widely held among the majority of the population

Some do, yes. I'll grant you that. But this was a press conference he gave for the foreign press- not at all the same thing as playing to your local audience.

cynical Bush administration orchestrates the whole old confrontation for their own ends.

Of course he is. He wants regime change in Iran.

we put the drum under the drumstick, give the megaphone report the words, dramatize and comment on in the esteemed columns of hawkish newspapers.

I would hardly call the Independent a hawkish newspaper.

war? Ostensibly, isolated from anything but his own insular communist clique, the NK dictator is a bigger more dangerous loon and one easier to deal with because his rhetoric is not tied in with farflung populations and terrorist organizations.

And already has nuclear weapons.

Look, I think we're talking in different directions here. I in no way support Bush's policy on... well, anything, come to think of it. Nonetheless, Iran is still a problem that must be dealt with, and I have little hope that Mullah Boy will do anything to stop it. Hell, if he actually wanted civilian nuclear power he could have it tomorrow, as long as the uranium enrichment was done elsewhere. We're in a goddamn pissing match between two fundamentalist jerk-offs. And I'm not inclined to take either of them at their word.

[ronnie624]

38. This source

has a slightly different take on this issue than those in the west.

<http://www.iran-daily.com/1385/2545/html/>

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

39. Yes, I suppose...

...that the official propoganda arm of the Iranian government would have a view somewhat different than that of a left-leaning British newspaper.

[ronnie624]

42. And of course we all know

one would never find propaganda in western corporate owned media sources.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

43. Uh huh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Independent

Not exactly Fox News, is it?

[ronnie624]

54. That was interesting.

However, I'm not sure of the purpose of your link. Am I now to conclude that The Independent doesn't carry standard propaganda designed to mold opinions of westerners and advance a specific world view in order to carry out a particular political agenda? If so, nothing could be further from the truth. I've read hundreds of articles from this particular news source, and I consider it a good one. It is however far from being the final word on any matter. I prefer many different sources.

I posted the link above not because I believe IRNA should be used as a primary news source, but because I believe such sources should at least be considered along side others in order to gain a more accurate view of the world. May I also suggest the article to which there is a link in post #18.

Perhaps, if you are so inclined, you could expand further on your reasoning for why Iranian news media would distort statements made by President Ahmadinejad after they have already been a matter of public record and that many throughout the world watched live on television. Why exactly would Iran Daily claim that he did not make certain statements that would presumably be well received by the Iranian people? Your logic escapes me.

[TexasLawyer]

44. Read the article posted by GhostDog

(post 18). I think you can see how the words are manipulated, taken out of context, and simply mis-translated. For example, the "wiped off the map" quote appears to be a mistranslation, with the false implication that Iran is going to do the "wiping."

These guys don't have anything good to say about Israel, and would probably be overjoyed at Israel's decline and fall. But I have not seen (yet, anyway) direct military threats by Iran to Israel made by Iran's President.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

55. Sorry, no.

I refuse to support 9/11 conspiracy sites.

[anotherdrew]

64. congratulations! you're part of the problem!

just keep your eyes closed and head firmly planted in the sand

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

67. Right.

If Pat Robertson said half of what this jackass has said, everone on this forum would be all over him like stink on poo, and rightly so. Sadly, there are some people on DU who never met a right-wing Islamic fundamentalist they didn't like. A pity, really. And here I was thinking that the progressive movement rejected religous extremism.

[anotherdrew]

68. what?

I don't see any religious extremism on that site, I'm only semi-familiar with it, but are you confusing "world news daily" with "world net daily" maybe? informationclearinghouse seems to be a syndication site, that is mostly ad free. I don't see ANYTHING there about PRO-right-wing Islamic fundamentalist. Since they publish articles from all over the world maybe you saw one story you objected too?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

69. ::sigh::

It links to all sorts of various 9/11 conspiracy nonsense and hosts some as well.

[truth2power]

28. You are correct. As I said above, "Fool me once..." n/t

[Julius Civitatus]

37. He says similar things every time he's near a microphone

Yes, the neocons are very happy to have a character like this to demonize and justify their neocon pipe dreams.

BUT...

It doesn't mean that Ahmadinejad is not saying those things. Come on now! The guy's a fundamentalist whack-job that says the same nasty, inflammatory and genocidal lines every time a mic is near him. Every other day he calls for the end of Israel, or claims the holocaust was a "made up story" by the Jews. Ahmadinejad is the one feeding these quotes to every foreign journalist in his way.

Let's be clear: Ahmadinejad is a nut. And our media suck ass. But the fact that our media suck major ass, does not automatically make Ahmadinejad a "good guy."

Perspective, people. Perspective.

[Marie26]

58. Don't forget his

little Holocaust-denying cartoon contest. Think of it this way, if this was US propaganda, they'd be sure to spin it that Ahmadinejad is threatening the US. But he's not, in spite of the fact that we're threatening to attack them constantly. Instead, for him, it's all about Israel. That is always the focus of his paranoia & his rants. That kind of illogical focus is the mark of a bigot.

[AngryAmish]

29. Again, there is no proof he is not a robot

[Marie26]

59. Or, an alien of some sort.

That's really more likely, isn't it?

[TexasLawyer]

41. MEMRI-- The organization that translates

so much of this stuff may have its own agenda.

World dispatch

Selective Memri

Brian Whitaker investigates whether the 'independent' media institute that translates the Arabic newspapers is quite what it seems

Monday August 12, 2002

<snip>
The organisation that makes these translations and sends them out is the Middle East Media Research Institute (Memri), based in Washington but with recently-opened offices in London, Berlin and Jerusalem. Its work is subsidised by US taxpayers because as an "independent, non-partisan, non-profit" organisation, it has tax-deductible status under American law.

Memri's purpose, according to its website, is to bridge the language gap between the west - where few speak Arabic - and the Middle East, by "providing timely translations of Arabic, Farsi, and Hebrew media".

Despite these high-minded statements, several things make me uneasy whenever I'm asked to look at a story circulated by Memri. First of all, it's a rather mysterious organisation. Its website does not give the names of any people to contact, not even an office address.

<snip>

The second thing that makes me uneasy is that the stories selected by Memri for translation follow a familiar pattern: either they reflect badly on the character of Arabs or they in some way further the political agenda of Israel. I am not alone in this unease.

Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on American-Islamic Relations told the Washington Times: "Memri's intent is to find the worst possible quotes from the Muslim world and disseminate them as widely as possible."

<snip>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,773258,00.html

[951-Riverside]

50. If they translated it wrong you would hear from Iranian officals

[TexasLawyer]

51. It's worth looking into whether they've tried

But I doubt that they would get much of a MSM platform for correcting misperceptions and mistranslations. Back with the other retractions and corrections on page B-17.

[Karenina]

52. Why would they try?

MEMRI is no newcomer to stoking flames with a fan blowing hot air. The West gets its knickers in a twist and the fire burns brighter. :eyes:
Dear TexasLawyer, how did nice kids like us end up in a world like this?

[Jim Sagle]

66. MEMRI RRRRRAWWWWWWWKSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!

[Zorra]

61. Too bad we can't move Israel to west Texas. That would solve a

lot of problems.

[Lurking Dem]

62. Yeah

The Mizrachi and Sephardim are used to being ethnically cleansed.

[Zorra]

65. Good one. n/t

[Coastie for Truth]

63. Birobidzhan

The Soviet suggestion was to establish a Jewish homeland in - in Eastern Russia --- but that was before they discovered OIL there.