Cape Cod debates first US offshore wind farm

[benEzra]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060426/us_nm/energy_wind_capecod_dc

After several years of intense lobbying on both sides, many Cape Cod residents are deeply divided as Congress approaches a vote as early as next week that could effectively block the what would be the first U.S. offshore wind farm.

Why in the HECK are people opposing one of the most promising renewable energy projects we've seen? I guess renewable energy is great, as long as some wealthy person doesn't have to see it on the horizon...screw the environment and go build a coal-fired plant somewhere else???

They talk about how it might hurt tourism...sheesh, I'd go there to see it...

People either need to get serious about renewable energy, or STFU about it. This being all for wind power until someone wants to actually BUILD it is rather hypocritical, I think...

[Pacifist Patriot]

1. My in-laws are there. They oppose it.

It drives me nuts. It's all about "scenery" to them. Well folks, I hate to tell you this, but with global warming and the ultimate rising of the sea, you're not going to have that lovely home on Cape Cod from which to view the horizon.

[laundry_queen]

60. ugh, same thing is happening where I live.

I live in a super windy area, and all sorts of wind farm proposals are on the table and people are angry b/c it would ruin the view for the town (we're in a valley and the ridge of the valley would be used). Um, the VIEW is a good reason for rejecting a renewable power source in this day and age? okeeee then. :silly:
People are so fucking shallow.

[yellowcanine]

62. Wind farms look a heck of a lot nicer than smokestacks.

[stepnw1f]

2. I Would Love To See

data that shows how these folks vote. I am already hearing about it from right wingers claiming it is because of the hypocritical left that lives there, that does not want this wind farm. My guess is that's a lie they are trying to catapult... if you know what I mean.

[KittyWampus]

57. Kennedy wrote a NYTimes editorial denouncing this. No one could be

more Democratic or Enviroment friendly. He represents Environmental groups, he's got his show on AAR that features environmental issues. Heck, he's even one of the gorgeous guys on the cover of the Vanity Fair Green Issue! :)

It's a case of NIMBY. Even Democrats succumb to that on occassion.

[tn-guy]

65. correction

Cryingshame, I've taken the liberty of correcting your post. My corrections are in bold.


"Kennedy wrote a NYTimes editorial denouncing this. No one could be more Democratic or Enviroment friendly as long as it costs him nothing, personally and poses no inconvenience. He represents Environmental groups, he's got his show on AAR that features environmental issues. Heck, he's even one of the gorgeous guys on the cover of the Vanity Fair Green Issue!

It's a case of NIMBY. Even Democrats succumb to that on occassion."

[DS1]

3. They don't want their view 'ruined' by spinning things

Personally, I'd find seeing them off in the distance generating free and clean power a beautiful thing, but again the rich people don't give a shit about that, and it's all about them suffering through seeing whirly things far off in the distance, or barely over the horizon.

[msongs]

6. let's give congress some pedal bike generators and

while they are in session they can sit and pedal and generate electricity.

say, there are millions of kids in school. let's give them all pedal bikes
so they can generate electricity while they ignore the teachers and listen to headphones :-)


Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[Freddie Stubbs]

11. Sailboats don't ruin the view?

:shrug:

[pitohui]

51. dead and dying birds ruin the view

it is an unfortunate reality that migratory birds use thermals for migration, including our bald eagles and many of our raptor species

killing what is left of our most magnificent migrating birds in the east, yes, that is ugly -- and not just to the eye, but to the soul

[0007]

66. They said the same thing in Texas years before they build 'em

And guess what? Very few bird deaths occurred. Birds are a little smarter than you're giving em credit for.

[Tracer]

4. Unfortunately, Sen. Kennedy opposes this.

I think he's got a bit of NIMBYism.

I've read that if you stood on the shoreline and extended your arm out, then the size of the windmills would be about as big as your thumb.

As for property values, I've also read that in Denmark, where there is a large wind farm, property values have actually increased.

[saigon68]

8. I have seen the offshore windfarm, located near Aarhus, Denmark

\

It was interesting and apparently very efficient

[Jayhawk Lib]

9. We can't have the elite

rich in the Boston area looking at those awful things. Looking at these things are not what their inherited wealth is all about. Let the peasants have them in their back yard..

[LifeDuringWartime]

58. there is one in boston

there is a single windmill right next to one of the highways. it only appears after going around a bend.. it's stunning.

[OKthatsIT]

72. Look...Kennedy doesn't want it because its a private investment

for profit. The locals wouldnt get a dime of energy from it. It's taking public property and scenic view.

Kennedy would have said great, if it really benefited the cape cod community.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

5. NIMORBY- a spin off on NIMBY

Not In My Obscenely Rich Back Yard

Our local rich folk don't mind paying
what the peasants pay- It doesn't hurt them

[Blue_Tires]

55. +1

[TAPat]

7. I grew up in Northern California

and there are wind farms - they're actually quite something to see and I happen to think they are pretty. I certainly wouldn't mind looking out my window at one especially if I were looking out at the ocean too! :)

[AngryAmish]

10. Hateful Republican NIMBY'S

There is no good reason to oppose this other than hate.

[Freddie Stubbs]

13. Senator Kennedy is not a Republican

Kennedy faces fight on Cape Wind

Key lawmakers oppose his bid to block project
By Rick Klein, Globe Staff | April 27, 2006

WASHINGTON -- As record oil prices turn attention to the need for renewable fuels, momentum is building in Congress to buck Senator Edward M. Kennedy's bid to block the proposed Cape Cod wind energy project, potentially reviving efforts to construct the sprawling windmill farm in Nantucket Sound.

The chairman and the top Democrat on the Senate Energy and Natural Resources committee said yesterday that when the bill Kennedy backs that would effectively halt the wind farm comes up for a vote in the Senate, they will object on procedural grounds. They say they'll argue that a renewable energy project shouldn't be lumped in with a bill governing the Coast Guard.

Meanwhile, a group of rank-and-file House members, worried about the political ramifications of rejecting alternative energy sources while motorists pay $3 a gallon at the gas station, have persuaded House leaders to sidetrack the entire bill for at least several weeks, even though it was slated for action this week. The delay could give supporters of the wind farm time to make their case to members of Congress.

''Are we going to be for developing alternative energy or not?" said Representative Charles Bass, a New Hampshire Republican who helped persuade House leaders to table the bill until at least mid-May. ''The longer you delay it, the longer there is for people to examine the issue, and to determine what's going on here."

more: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/04/27/kennedy_faces_fight_on_cape_wind/

[benEzra]

17. There's a lot of repubs trying to kill it

but I can't figure out why Kennedy is.

[Freddie Stubbs]

22. Perhaps his concern for the enviornment is not as great as

his concern for the view from his home. Everybody cares about the enviornment, but many want other people to make the necessary sacrifices.

[Warpy]

14. The Kennedys oppose it

because it would be within view of their precious compound in Hyannisport.

Screw 'em. They're on the wrong side on this one.

[DS1]

15. Fine

I know this is an empty threat, but I'm feeling it

If Kennedy opposes this because it's an eyesore, I'm going to get a raft and a pair of speedos and three of my pastiest white friends and we're all rowing out to to tan in the waters behind his house :D

[Warpy]

20. I'll join you

I'm a pasty fat old broad, over 50, and if you want an eyesore, just put me in a string bikini. I'm talking ACRES of cellulite.

Let me know where and when. I'll buy the sunscreen and the airline ticket and I'll meet you there.

[bettyellen]

24. no! wear that man sling the bright green, backless one.

[DS1]

28. Doh!

Forgot about that. Still trying to, in fact.

[bettyellen]

36. it's kinda burned on my retinas

but, i'm obsessive about warbrobe, so....

[pitohui]

49. they're on the right side

sorry i'm w. the kennedys, birds have a right to live too, landscapes and seascapes have a right to live too

these hideous monstrosities are already taking over the west, notice how the price of electric has gone down out there

no me neither

you are talking abt destroying what is left of our migratory pathways and our scenic areas for nothing except to put coin in the pocket of the very wealthiest

when you think kennedy is wrong, dig deeper, nobody died and made him jesus but there is usually a good reason behind it

[Odin2005]

71. Sorry, but as was stated above, the risk to birds is exaggerated.

Those "hideous monstrosities", allong with nuclear and solar plants, are neccessary to replace dirty coal plants that contribute to global warming. the risks to birds is pathetically tiny compared to with global warming, which will REALLY screw up those bird's habitats.

This is the problem, the average American is so disconnected from reality that he/she thinks that saving a handfull of birds from windmills counts as helping the enviroment.

[frankenforpres]

31. you are mistaken

these people are not republicans

[Warpy]

12. People who paid a million dollars for the view

don't want a bunch of windmills cluttering it up. Mass. is one of the states that gives them a deed to the whole beach down to the low tide mark. The last thing they want is something offshore they can't own.

Yachstsmen, especially those with sailboats, don't want another hazard to avoid in the area, since they already have shoals, currents and speedboats to contend with.

That's it, in a nutshell. This is a rich man's protest. Most tourist places that are on the water are no where near the proposed windfarm. Tourists would likely gravitate to those that are within sight of it, though, just for the novelty.

Conservative rich people hate being reminded they don't own it all, and conservative rich people hate change. This one affects them very deeply since it does both these things.

Trust me, the "environmentalists" who are opposing this thing are being well paid to do so.

[drm604]

16. Unfortunately it's not just conservatives.

Ted Kennedy and Walter Cronkite are against it. This is NIMBYism that crosses party lines and it unfortunately gives the other side an opportunity to cry hypocrite. :(

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/26/sunday/main560595.shtml

:(

[suston96]

18. I been there...

...for 45 years. I am still there. Cape Cod and the Islands are NOT the Kennedys, nor are they just rich people.

I am not rich and I have to drive a few miles to look at Nantucket Sound. But I have crossed the Sound many times, from Falmouth to Marth's Vineyard and from Hyannis to Nantucket. and... Nantucket Sound is also a shipping lane where millions of visitors and natives cross and tons of supplies are shipped to the Islands.

Please find some other place to put up those windmills, which I believe are good for all of us. It doesn't have to be right there in a busy shipping lane.

[suston96]

19. Oh, I forgot to add....

....Why not build wind farms at the Grand Canyon? Lots of wind there. No homes or people to worry about.

Mostly Native Americans and millions of tourists. And we know they don't count.

[GreenGreenLimaBean]

27. that argument is specious

The Grand Canyon is a national park. There are obvious places where one would NOT put turbines, but off the coast of Cape Cod isn't one of them... I guess 50 years from now, when the seas rise high enough to swamp all those beach front homes, the protesters will change their minds...

not building this wind farm will be a hugh setback for wind power and the fight against global warming....which is the real enemy we are fighting...

cheers!

[Warpy]

21. It's my understanding that they'll be on the shoals

and not in the shipping lanes.

You'd think yachtsmen would be grateful for the additional markings. If you've ever heard a keel scraping a shoal that was badly charted, you'd know why.

[suston96]

23. Yeah, the Grand Canyon

All these desert regions with lots of wind and no water. New Mexico will be building them. Why not all over the country? Why not one in everyone's back yard? Hook it up to your meter box. Many people already doing that.

[ladjf]

25. Small cities can install very large wind turbines to serve the

entire city. That's more efficient that individual wind turbines at every home.

[frankenforpres]

33. definition of nimby

that is what you just gave. you have a right to be against win turbines, everyone does. it is just hypocritical to talk about people wasting energy in other ways ( im not suggesting you do this, just making a general statement)

[jpak]

37. It's on a shoal - it's not navigable

If anything, the turbines will serve a navigational warnings that it ain't safe to be sailing there...

[Coastie for Truth]

26. I have the Altemont Wind Farm in my back yard

This is the height of arrogance and selfishness.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

29. As a San Franciscan...

I can hardly wait for the day I look out at the Pacific and see a wind or wave power generating farm offshore. Nothing would make me happier than knowing my City was that much closer to making itself energy independent and cleaner.

A pox on those who refuse to see the benefits.

[suston96]

32. Yeah, sticking it to Cape Cod...

The Pilgrim Nuclear Plant just 20 miles north of Cape Cod, and now a wind farm on its southern shore...

Why is Cape Cod being surrounded with all this power beneficence? Isn't the Pilgrim Nuclear facility enough?

Or are people talking just to hear themselves talk!

Here are maps (scroll down) and stuff to help you all salivate: http://cryptome.sabotage.org/pnpp-eyeball.htm

[Hell Hath No Fury]

35. Personally, if I were in your area...

I would be doing everything in my power to get rid of that damn nuke facility, even if it meant building wind/wave farms off my coast.

Nuke facilities suck and need to go the way of the dino.

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

30. We're having the same debate here

in Virginia in rural Highland County. Least populated county in the state, very little tax revenue, locals moving out. A landowner wants to build a 38 MW wind farm on his 4000 acres of deforested (pasture) hilltop he owns. Locals are all up in arms about it ruining their viewshad, scaring tourists away, etc.

Proposal for off-shore are truely funny. "it will RUIN the view!!!" They say. I ask them "what view? The view of tankers and container ships belching exhaust?" People need to wake up IMHO.

And to Coastie for Truth - Altamont was an early experiment that even I have to say was a failure. Those units will eventually be removed and replaced by larger, quieter, more efficient, less avian-unfriendly units - hopefully sooner rather than later...

[Chemical Bill]

34. I oppose it.

It's about giving a public resource to a private, for profit business, so they can charge the ratepayers who used to own the resource.

We have plenty of land where we can site windmills. We have plenty of rooftops to place photovolteics. Why are these windmills the only solution?

Bill

[benEzra]

38. The ratepayers don't own the ocean...

just their land up to the water's edge, out to the end of their hundred thousand dollar piers.

We have plenty of land where we can site windmills.

Yeah, land where the rich don't have to look at them, only working-class peons.

If windmills are OK for Nebraska and California, they are good enough for the ocean a few miles off Cape Cod. If the rich shouldn't have to sully their enlightened eyes with seeing a distant windmill, the working class shouldn't have to either, right?

Why are these windmills the only solution?

They're not the only solution. They're PART of the solution.

We need windmills at ALL the most promising sites, not just the sites that the wealthy and politically connected can't see from their golf courses and multimillion dollar estates. Otherwise, just go build more coal-fired plants, which can be sited anywhere, not just where conditions are ideal.

[suston96]

39. Look at the maps....

...go find someplace else. The expansive shorelines, mountains, deserts.... There is plenty of space elsewhere.

We have a well run nuclear facility supplying alternative energy to over half a million homes and businesses. I repeat, we have alternative energy in our region.

Come back and talk to us after you all - everywhere, have built a nuclear plant or met the needs of a half-million homes and businesses by some alternative means. If you all did this then the oil crisis would be over.

Meanwhile, why are you picking on us? Because we have Ted Kennedy and it's fun to pick on the Kennedys?

[toopers]

41. Yep, there is always room in someone else's view!

[benEzra]

44. I agree with you that well-run nuclear is a very good idea...

and there are nice synergies between the two, IMHO, but nuclear alone isn't going to replace coal and gas-fired plants anytime soon. The lead time for nuclear plants is way, way longer than that required for wind turbines, for one thing.

My amusement/frustration at this whole thing is that nearly everyone supports wind power in the abstract, but when it comes to making it a reality, it's always "oh, we can't STAND the sight of windmills on the horizon."

Personally, I think the Cape Cod project is THE litmus test of whether or not wind power is going to fly in the U.S. or not. If this gets defeated, wind will always be a tiny niche player in the power market, because the (specious, IMHO) objections to it from some Cape Cod residents are just as applicable to wind farms anywhere in the United States.

[FlaGranny]

69. Doesn't make any difference where you

put them, somebody will be able to see them. I'm a nature love and enjoy great scenic views, but, strangely, I don't find windmills aesthetically displeasing.

I live in South Florida about 4-5 miles off the ocean. I'd love to see windmills out there. It's not picking on someone to offer them cheaper, renewable energy in exchange for occasionally seeing streamlined windmills. I guess everyone wants them, but they want to put them in poor or depressed areas of the country. Well, okay, then those poor people should get the full benefit of the renewable power. Doesn't seem fair to make other people accept the windmills while those that oppose them in their neighborhoods want to reap the benefits.

[Chemical Bill]

45. Actually, the public owns the ocean...

and I for one don't want to give it to the energy companies. An American Indian might say we are only borrowing the ocean, in which case I hope to borrow something less fragile to put windmills on.

There is plenty of land on Cape Cod for windmills. There is a big abandoned Air Force base/superfund site. Why can't big energy locate there? I'm not rich, BTW. I only see the ocean when I drive to public access. I don't like your snide implication that only the rich oppose this. Us working-class peons have a stake as well.

So far these windmills are the only ones proposed for this area, and they need governmental approval, and a handout of free land (water?). Haven't you noticed that big projects like this only get done when tax breaks are involved, and/or privatization of public property? I support windmills in my backyard, just not in the ocean.

BTW, what effect do these windmills have on the endangered whales that congregate nearby? Are there any studies that can answer that question?

Bill

[suston96]

46. Abandoned?

"There is plenty of land on Cape Cod for windmills. There is a big abandoned Air Force base/superfund site. Why can't big energy locate there?"

The Massachusetts Military Reservation, as Otis AFB is now called, is most definitely NOT abandoned. (Google Otis AFB). There may be parts of it that would serve as a windmill site. I have a campsite a couple of hundred yards from the base.

But why, I repeat, why pick on Cape Cod? There already are many windmill farms in the US. We know they will work. And, I repeat, we have our contribution to alternative energy via the Plymouth Nuclear Plant.

I believe there is more at work here, maybe tiresome anti-Kennedy venom, rather than the candid search for answers about windmill energy which can be gotten from the many existing installations already in existence.

[Chemical Bill]

52. Sorry,

I stand corrected. I assumed that they would abandon their superfund sight, as usual.

Bill

[skids]

47. Whales?

It's on a shoal.

Maybe you should read up on it a bit.

[Chemical Bill]

50. Sound travels through water.

Sonar is driving whales to beach themselves. That's why I asked about studies instead of reactions.

Bill

[skids]

56. They aren't even loud enough to be heard onshore n/t

[Chemical Bill]

59. Neither is sonar. n/t

[skids]

61. Let's put it this way...

...they are quieter than an oil rig, and if sonar was within our hearing range, at least the variety of sonar that is causing the whales trouble, it would be very audible.

[Chemical Bill]

63. Forgive me...

I tried google and couldn't find any studies that show the effects of windmills on whales. I know you have your opinion, and I have mine. Can you point out any studies?

I did find some interesting objections by commercial fishermen addressing the effects of windmill construction and operation on their industry.

But my main objection has always been that this is a giveaway of a public resource to a private, for-profit company. I also think that there are better, less fragile places to put windmills. I believe that windmills have their place, and welcome the thought that my tax money should be spent to develop clean energy. Put it in my backyard, not in the ocean. Give one to every homeowner, not the energy monopoly.

Bill

[skids]

64. No there aren't any studies...

...because it's a pretty far-fetched reach to think that they would have any effect on whales at all.

And if "giveaway" (read, letting people put stuff there) of public resources is such a concern, why hold renewable power to greatly higher standards than the people drilling in federal waters for oil? How are renewables supposed to compete?

[Chemical Bill]

70. My state had some major rebates for solar electric.

So no, I'm not against tax money going to renewables, just the ocean being given away. I don't like offshore oil either.

Bill

[adigal]

40. This really pisses me off

If we want to help the environment, we need to look at different alternatives, and have some windmills and some solar panels around in our environment.

In New York, there is most likely going to be a wind farm near Gore Ski Mountain in North Creek. You will be able to see some of the windmills from the ski mountain, but the town is overwhelmingly in favor of it, as it will make enough energy to provide electric for 800 families.

[suston96]

42. 800 families?

Not enough. Let's talk again when you have enough alternative energy for 800 thousand families.

Pilgrim Nuclear 20 miles from Cape Cod services some 550, 000 families and businesses.

Why don't you all build a nuclear plant in your - uh - front yard?

Oh, and one more thing...

During winter months, most of the Nantucket and Marth's Vineyard and Cape Cod resorts are closed down. So for some 7 months (we have long winters) all that energy is saved and goes to other parts of the grid to be sent around the region - winter months, when that extra energy is needed.

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

43. and this is a bad thing, because...?

[pitohui]

48. you know you wouldn't go there to see it

it has become brutally clear that people in favor of wind farms give eff-all abt the environment and apparently never step outdoors

they don't care abt destroying our landscapes, they never visit them

they don't care abt destroying our migratory birds, birds spread disease, just ask 'em

it makes me sick how nothing beautiful can live if it makes you spend an extra nickel a month on your electric bill

only nimby's can save us from these monsters, it's pathetic

they've proposed this crap for offshore louisiana, right in the middle of the central flyway!

[President Kerry]

53. I just don't understand the argument of the opponents.

I just don't get it. What is the problem? The view of some spinning windmills in the middle of the ocean?? If that's not hot air, i don't know what is. Proponents of the idea DO care about the environment - that's why they're pushing for WIND energy to replace some of the coal or nuclear energy (both of which can be devastating environmentally) demand.

Maybe I'm dense, but I just don't see what the problem is. And i've seen some bumper stickers on the Cape opposing the idea. But never to this day, have known why.

[screenplaya]

54. I understand the opposition is...

because of the private corp that will own and profit from the farm and the huge tax breaks the corp will get.

[slampoet]

67. One of the most beautiful man made things i have ever seen.......

....is the wind farm in eastern Oregon.

The big turbine props look like cute pinwheels off in the horizon. Just great!

[The Stranger]

68. It seems like some kind of bizarre, slow suicide, voting against this.

To say it is incomprehensible just doesn't quite get it.