Hispanic Beaten at Party Also Said Burned

[Judi Lynn]

Hispanic Beaten at Party Also Said Burned

By JUAN A. LOZANO
The Associated Press
Monday, May 1, 2006; 11:37 PM

HOUSTON -- A Hispanic boy who authorities said was viciously attacked and sodomized by two white teens shouting ethnic slurs also suffered cigarette burns on his back and numerous other injuries.

"It looks like they were really trying to kill him and torture him in any way they could," prosecutor Mike Trent said Monday during an initial court appearance for 17-year-old Keith Robert Turner.

Turner and David Henry Tuck, 18, are charged with aggravated sexual assault. Authorities said they have acknowledged their roles in the April 23 attack.

The 17-year-old victim remained in critical condition Monday, Trent said.

"We're hoping since he's lasted this long, he's going to pull through," he said. "Praise God he has made it so far."
(snip/...)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/01/AR2006050100727.html

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. Ohhhh...these young ladddies...

They are not going to have an easy time making friends in the joint, where they will likely spend the better part of their lives. Especialy in Tejas, where hispanics are so well represented in their penal institutions.

[shanti]

12. not to worry

there will be plenty more of their ilk in there too watching their backs.

unfortunately.

[jukes]

15. that's true

the Aryan Brotherhood will protect them.

[judaspriestess]

25. they may protect them

or hand them over and sell them out to repay some "debts"

I see this happening.

[jukes]

26. i'd like that

and yes, it does happen. especially w/ the useless 1s.

[TomInTib]

2. This is a little off the track, but I once lived on the same block ,,

on which this horrible thing happened.

[Judi Lynn]

3. Pipe attack victim is 'still in bad shape,' his brother says

May 1, 2006, 10:55PM
Pipe attack victim is 'still in bad shape,' his brother says
Spring teen can't talk, squeeze mother's hand


By BILL MURPHY, PEGGY O'HARE and JENNIFER RADCLIFFE
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

The 17-year-old Spring boy who was savagely beaten and sodomized with a pipe more than a week ago still can't speak or squeeze his mother's hand. But his face — once swollen almost beyond recognition — has started to heal and friends are sure he can hear their prayers, his older brother said Monday.

In the family's first public statement since the attack, the boy's 21-year-old brother said the family's attention remains focused solely on the teen's health, which is still too poor to undergo operations on his internal organs.

"He's still in bad shape, but he's doing a tad better," said the brother, as he spoke in front of the family's Spring home. "He was in the wrong place at the wrong time ... I'm not out for revenge. I'm just worried about my brother."
(snip/...)

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3833474.html

[Judi Lynn]

16. This story was rewritten to include a photo of the younger defendant.

Keith Robert Turner, 17,
is charged with aggravated
sexual assault on Monday.
He and David Henry Tuck are
being held without bail.
BRETT COOMER: CHRONICLE

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3833490.html

On edit:

Not a scratch on him. Just as you'd expect.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. I thought there was a story posted that said the kid died?

Is this story incorrect?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2251248#2251865

[Judi Lynn]

5. I've thought about that, too. I'd bet it was believed he was either dead

or on the way when the story was written. I tried to find it later, and the story had simply disappeared. I'm sure they withdrew it when it was learned he was still hanging on.

Apparently the hospital personel saw his injuries as almost impossible to survive, from the very few remarks I've seen from them.

Really hoping this kid makes it, and that somehow, the memory of all this pain will be minimal, for his sanity's sake.

[politrix]

6. He'll Need A Colostomy Bag FOr The Rest Of His Life

A perforated colon is a bitch.


I want the death penalty. And, please don't waste my time telling me how wrong it is. I'm for killing my enemies - that's MY religion and my opinion I have a right to.

[laylah]

20. Why do we

kill people, who kill people, to teach people, killing is wrong? :shrug:

By the way, while I welcome you to DU, I wonder about those that post such things then disable their accounts. Do you REALLY believe what you wrote? Are you afraid to stand up for your beliefs? Just askin'.

Jenn

[Festivito]

32. Ever find out an enemy turned out to be a friend?

I'm not saying you're wrong.
I'm just asking if you've ever made a mistake about someone.

This should be treated as attempted murder, at minimum. Death not out of the possible.

[laylah]

37. I have no problem

whatsoever, that these punks spend the rest of their natural lives behind bars; however, as I asked before...

Jenn

[Festivito]

38. I responded to the post from, no response to either of us yet, politrix.

I don't think you want an answer. You will not like an answer.

But, it's only an easily made post.

We don't have to TEACH people it's wrong, they already know it. (For those who do not know it we make exception.)
We teach that we establish power over consequence and parity: act, effect; kill, death.
If you kill, consequence, death ensues.
If you killed, consequence, death for them, then, consequence, parity, death for you.

It teaches. It is no longer necessary to give so low level a lesson. But, it remains.

I hold that the death penalty should only be used in cases of incarceration failure. That a person's life can be forfeit by judicial process, and that in the case of escape or inability to incarcerate that that life can be terminated. I also want a higher standard of proof in such cases. A standard that entertains even unusually unreasonable doubt. There must be multiple evidences of robust natures, not just a blood type, or overly-certain face recognition, and certainly not even the possibility of a coerced confession. But, I digress.

[BreweryYardRat]

7. Yeah, apologies for that.

I got sent a second-hand story with no link. I should've checked around online first to verify.

[Judi Lynn]

8. There's no strong signal they believe he's going to make it, yet, even.

I'm sure they had it written and ready to go, believing it was inevitable, as is the case with a lot of famous old people, when newspapers have their obits ready to go, with the necessary details to be added at the last moment, as soon as they learn the person has died.

I think he was in a coma throughout yesterday and night, and that was days after they tried to kill him through torture.

[Julius Civitatus]

9. Just like Abu Grahib and Guantanamo!!!

These two kids would fit right in with Rummy's interrogation corps! Gen. Miller would be proud!

Now seriously, this story gets sicker and sicker every day.

[Judi Lynn]

10. San Antonio:Legislators push DA to file hate-crime charges in beating

Legislators push DA to file hate-crime charges in beating

Web Posted: 05/02/2006 12:00 AM CDT
Isadora Vail
Express-News Austin Bureau

AUSTIN — More than 30 Hispanic legislators are asking the Harris County district attorney to file hate-crime charges against two young men accused of beating and sodomizing a Hispanic teen while shouting ethnic slurs.

Rep. Joaquín Castro, D-San Antonio, and the Mexican American Legislative Caucus sent a letter to District Attorney Charles Rosenthal late Monday, saying the actions were racially motivated.

"To ignore such an obvious case of a racially motivated crime leaves a black eye on the state of Texas," the letter stated.

Keith Robert Turner, 17, and David Henry Tuck, 18, both of the Houston suburb of Spring, are charged with aggravated sexual assault, the Associated Press reported.
(snip/...)

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA050206.2B.hatecrime.1222dc3b.html

(I can't understand why this isn't "attempted murder.")

[Vogon_Glory]

17. The Number of Actual Hate Crimes Is Exaggerated

The number of actual hate crimes is exaggerated. Just ask any right-wing talk show "host." :sarcasm:

Do you all care to bet that this incident will be ignored by the mouths-with-microphones from the time it occurred well into the indefinite future?

[nebula]

11. Only thing worse than living in TX (backward redneck shithole that it is)

would be being a minority living in TX.

[RagingInMiami]

13. Don't kid yourself

The hate is not limited to Texas. It's everywhere. Even here.

[teknomanzer]

14. Maybe so...

but I've encountered much less over racism in South Florida than in Denver, Colorado.

[Bridget Burke]

43. Tell that to all the minorities living here....

At least one of the "boys" who committed this atrocity is a neo-Nazi. They can be found outside Texas.

[Phx_Dem]

18. I wonder if these two guys were spun

would partly explain the ferocity of the attack.

[zbdent]

19. These aren't the guys who one of them was a son of a Repuke

right?

If they aren't, they're f*cked . . .

[my2sense]

21. Scary

It is truly terrifying to know that we live in a society inhabited with people that would do such a horrific thing to another human being. These animals should be put down like rabid dogs.......

As far as the victim, I hope he will be able recover and move forward with his life both physically and emotionally. My heart goes out to him and his family.

It is baffling as to why I've not seen anything on television about this attack and I live in TX.

[rasputin1952]

30. Welcome to DU, this indeed was a horrific crime...

:(

Let us hope this young man makes it through an ordeal that never should have happened...:O8)

[Judi Lynn]

31. Scary, I just saw your post for the first time. It's unbelievable there's

no tv coverage of this crime there, yet.

My only guess is that the story might be considered so explosive, they want to ease into it, to prevent a huge backlash, or something, as in breaking it to the population gradually.

If you're so inclined, you might let us know if and when it finally becomes a big story in the STATE WHERE IT HAPPENED! Yikes.

Welcome to D.U.! :hi: :hi: :hi:

[Xithras]

22. Hrm. Hate crime? I don't think so.

The definition of a hate crime is a crime committed against somebody with the intention of striking fear into that persons community. If they beat the guy simply because he was Mexican, that would be a hate crime. If they'd beat a gay man because he was gay, that would be a hate crime.

In this case, they beat the guy nearly to death because they caught him trying to kiss a 12 year old child. You can easily argue attempted murder because they obviously went way too far and nearly killed him, but the hate intent wasn't there. They were trying to injure him for vengeance, not to strike fear into the wider hispanic community. To charge them with hate crimes twists the original intent of the laws...they weren't intended to be used simply because a crime was severe and insults were used.

FWIW, when I was 16 I caught one of my friends trying to kiss my 11 year old sister. I pounded him pretty hard for that, and it had nothing to do with race. It had to do with the fact that a pervert was trying to score with my underage little sis. So while I have a very serious problem with the way these guys handled the problem, and I AGREE that they should be imprisoned for a long time because of it, I can't fault their reason for doing so.

[President Kerry]

23. a kid trying to kiss another kid at a party..

This happens at every other teenage party. The kid didn't deserve it. He might not even have known how old she was. Plus kissing doesn't qualify as "scoring" as you put it. Finally, I have a hard time buying that the 2 thugs were overly concerned about the girl's safety. At least one of them was a neonazi, and he used what happened as a pretext for a vicious attack. That's my take on it.

[Xithras]

24. At 16, I knew far better than to try and kiss strange twelve year olds.

Of course he didn't deserve to be beaten like that, nobody does, but a savage beating and terrible abuse doesn't make it a hate crime.

A hate crime is a crime of motive. If White Person A shoots Black Person B in the head because Black Person B slept with White Person A's wife, that's just plain old murder. If White Person A shoots Black Person B in the head for no reason other than racism, that's a hate crime. It doesn't matter that the actual action was identical. It also doesn't matter, in a legal sense, whether White Person A personally liked black people or not. The ONLY thing that matters in a hate crime prosecution is the original motive. In this case, the original motive appears to have been revenge for the victim trying to kiss a 12 year old child.

Did hate play a factor? From what I understand of these guys, it probably did. But since that wasn't the motive for the beating, it can't support a hate crimes conviction.

This is an important distinction for a very good reason. If the DA charges these guys with hate crimes related murder, the defenses job gets a heck of a lot easier. Instead of proving whether or not they committed the beating, the attorney will simply have to prove that it wasn't due to race. The DA can 100% prove that these guys committed the assault, but if he charges them with a hate crime and can't prove motive, they will WALK simply because hate crimes charges REQUIRE proof of motive.

[Tinksrival]

28. You weren't there!

You do not have his side of the story. I hope he lives to tell it but until then how could you take the word of these disturbed criminals.

Ever hear of Emmet Till?

[Xithras]

33. The story came from other witnesses at the party, not the accused.

Other people at the party said that these two had been trying to pick a fight with various people the whole time they were there. When the argument started over the victim trying to kiss the 12 year old, these two dragged him outside and started beating him.

It has nothing to do with taking their word. What we have here are a couple of defectives at a party where drugs were being consumed who decided that they wanted to get into a fight. After several attempts to start arguments on their own, they finally jumped into an argument involving somebody else and decided to beat the guy to a pulp. There were OTHER hispanics at the party who they didn't mess with. Heck, the 12 year old girl was hispanic. There is no compelling evidence anywhere that they attacked this guy just because he was hispanic, and without that motivation it's impossible to get a hate crimes conviction. Abusive use of hate crimes laws has negative consequences for EVERYONE, and will eventually lead to their repeal. They have a good use, but we need to make sure we're using them properly.

One other point: The attack was witnessed by a number of teens at the party, including hispanics. What are the odds, in your opinion, that a couple of skinheads could launch a racist attack against a hispanic in front of a group of other hispanics without those other hispanics caring? What do you make of the fact that none of the witnesses to the attack, including the hispanics, considered it to be racist?

And yes, I know all about Emmet Till. There's a big difference between a couple of klansmen killing someone because they're black, and a couple of lunatics almost killing someone...who happens to be hispanic. The majority of inter-racial crime isn't racist, and just because a crime is inter-racial and happens to be severe doesn't automatically make it racist either. Emmet Till's murder was very racist and was motivated by his murderers hatred of his people. This assault, according to the witnesses, was committed because a couple of losers decided they wanted to beat someone.

[Tinksrival]

41. In all the articles I've read

I have not read anything you have posted about where the kissing story originated or hispanic witnesses to the attack itself. Do you remember where you read this so I can find it?

Thanks

[Xithras]

42. Not the original article, but...

I can't find the original article, but I did find a couple that make the same point.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3828548.html
This article has a really good rundown of what actually happened that night. You'll notice in the article that it's mentioned that the 12 year old had a 16 year old brother in the home who witnessed the attack.

http://www.examiner.com/a-93173~Texas_Teens_Won_t_Face_Hate_Crimes_Charges.html
This AP story is one of the few I've seen that mentions the fact that the 12 year old was hispanic.

That means there were at least two hispanic witnesses to the beating, the 12 year old and 16 year old. In fact, if the first article has it right, there were basically three hispanics and two whites in the home.

What's irritating me is that I can't find the original article where the witnesses said that the two guys attacked the third over the kiss, and that they didn't think the attack was racially motivated.

Maybe I'm just too cynical, but I get the feeling that the media is playing everyone with this story. There's no "big news" right now (that they're willing to cover anyway), so they've taken this beating and are turning it into the second coming of the Klan. The fact that they're burying certain aspects of the story, including the fact that everyone present was hispanic and that one of the guys had been trying to join a Latino gang, kind of makes me suspicious about the whole thing. My gut is telling me that we're being played by media companies that are trying to spin this into a racial conflict to boost their ratings.

[Bridget Burke]

44. Bullshit.

May 3, 2006, 2:59PM
Pipe attack not suspect's first assault, witness says
A Hispanic man beaten in 2003 says Tuck is one of three skinheads who jumped him

By BILL MURPHY and ROSANNA RUIZ
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

A man accused of savagely beating a Hispanic youth in Spring last month was one of three skinheads who took part in an ethnically motivated attack on a Hispanic man three years ago, according to case records, the victim and a woman who witnessed the incident.

David Tuck, then 14 years old, and two adult men beat the victim as one or more of the attackers shouted "dirty Mexican," "border jumper," "spic," and "we kill people like you," according to court records and the victim.....

The two adults, covered with Nazi and white-power tattoos, were sentenced to federal prison for violating the victim's civil rights....

Tuck, who has told acquaintances he is a skinhead and has Nazi symbols tattooed on his body, is accused of kicking the boy with steel-toed boots and kicking the pipe up his rectum.

At least one of the suspects in the most recent case made ethnic slurs about the victim, who is Hispanic, during the beating, authorities have said.

www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/3836597.html

I don't know whether calling this a Hate Crime is the best legal tactic. However, saying these Nazis were only trying to "defend the honor of Southern womanhood" but "went to far" is a crock.

[Judi Lynn]

45. Thanks for making a point which should have been grasped earlier!

The story also has been printed pointing out how a man was pumping gas into his car when this monster attacked and savagely beat him.

He's OF COURSE not a knight in shining armor, roaming the countryside saving the reputations of young maidens from the flirtacious yet deadly behavior of terrifying youths four years older.

Attempting to defend this P.O.S. reveals more about the defender than he/she would realize.

[tblue37]

27. Did you read this part?

The victim was left naked on the ground for hours without help, Harris County sheriff's detectives said. The witnesses' mother, who rents the home where the incident occurred, apparently slept through the attack. Her son alerted her well after daybreak, detectives said.

Shouldn't the other people at the party, especially the boy who waited until the next morning to wake his mother up and tell her about the nearly dead boy in their backyard, also be legally liable for not reporting the crime?

[Robbie Michaels]

29. Yet It's Not A Hate Crime

Message to Houston DA - "Fuck You!" :grr: :nuke:

[Imdale]

34. There is a good reason for not filing as a Hate Crime

Under the law a hate crime is an enhancement to a charged crime - so it takes a Class A Misdemeanor and makes it a State Jail Felony (lowest of the 5 classes of felonies), turns a State Jail Felony to a Class 3 Felony, turns a Class 3 into a Class 2 Felony, etc. An Aggrevated crime - one in which a weapon is used - works exactly the same.

Enchancements are not cumulative...so if you have two distinct enhancements, there still is only the effect of a single enhancement.

Tuck & Turner committed 1) Agrevated Assault & Battery, 2) Aggrevated Sexual Assault, & 3) Aggrevated Attempted Murder. Thus charging for a Hate Crime is pointless.

Add to that the fact that an Aggrevated Charge is essentially proved the moment you can prove that a weapon was used - intent or motivation is not an element of the crime. The same is not true for a Hate Crime - intent & motivation are elements of the crime and the state must PROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that the impetus of the crime was "hate". Ever tried to prove an emotion.

Both will be tried as adults, and this heinous nature of the crime will result in very long prison sentences.

Sometimes blaming the DA's office is called for...in this case it is not.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. Don't forget second degree murder.

The kid's dead.

[Blue Diadem]

39. I think that was reported in error somewhere on here.

No one could find a link after the initial posting of it several days ago.

[Imdale]

40. No, he's alive and his prognosis has improved over the last two days.

though he'll still have serious long-term problems due to his injuries.

The DA's office has arraigned on the Aggrevated Sexual Assualt...will be seeking a Grand Jury indictment for Attempted Murder which is pretty much a foregone conclusion.

[Shakespeare]

36. Charged with aggravated sexual assault, but NOT attempted murder, too?!

And nobody can possibly doubt they were doing their best to kill the kid....