US guards kill ambulance crewman (mercs in Baghdad "killed him and left")

[Barrett808]

US guards kill ambulance crewman
By Maher Nazih in Baghdad
May 02, 2006

AMERICAN security contractors shot dead an Iraqi ambulance crewman today, when they opened fire on his vehicle after a roadside bomb blasted their convoy.

Two American civilians were wounded in the incident in north Baghdad, the US military said.

...

The surviving driver of the ambulance said at the scene he and his fellow crewman were taking a stretcher case to hospital when the bomb blasted the convoy of unmarked contractors' cars travelling on the same stretch of road.

"We were taking a case to hospital when a bomb went off close to a convoy of Americans that was passing," said the driver, who gave his name only as Abu Ali for fear of reprisals.

"They opened fire and shot him in the heart," he said, declining to name his dead colleague.

"We are an ambulance crew, who help people when there are bombings. What did we do wrong?"

Asked about the incident, an Iraqi Interior Ministry official said: "The Americans killed the ambulance driver. They just killed him and left. They did not stop to check."

(more)

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19007642-23109,00.html

[Sparkman]

1. I think we all know what to say to our U.S. mercinaries...when they return

[Drum]

3. problem is, these f*%ks will just blend in again here.

who really knows who they are? i figure they're all but untouchable, anywhere.

(hears music: pink floyd's "the dogs of war")

[saigon68]

6. Here are a couple

[bemildred]

9. Who can forget Mr. Bremer? And his chickenshit weasel guards?

I look forward to the day when they are all tried and convicted at the Hague.
:puke:

[anotherdrew]

11. OMFG - we need a national registry of these goons so we know who they are

this is ugly. these freaks just killed the first person they saw. disgusting.

[leftchick]

50. perhaps they are dead now

they don't have a great survival rate in Iraq.

[fushuugi]

52. oh?

i didn't know that there were published records and/or statistics about the mercenaries (corporate or agency sponsored). do you have any links?

[leftchick]

53. like Iraqi casualties the DOD does not count them

here is the only estimate I have ever seen...

http://icasualties.org/oif/Civ.aspx

[fushuugi]

54. thx for the link, leftchick

[Blue_Tires]

32. not to mention, they are laughing all the way to the bank

with their $1000/day (official) salary...heaven only knows what the mercs make under the table for special 'off-the-books' jobs

[Judi Lynn]

2. What a damned tragedy. It's continual, too.

From the article:

Video footage posted on the internet last year apparently showing Western security guards firing on civilian cars in Baghdad, accompanied by a musical soundtrack, provoked new accusations that some such contractors were out of control.

Largely employed to protect operations being carried out under US government contract – many work directly on US military bases – private security outfits are ubiquitous in parts of Iraq. Some contractors complain that an irresponsible minority of "cowboys" is giving them a bad name.

US troops have also often been accused by Iraqis of opening fire on passing civilians after roadside bomb blasts.
(snip)

The driver was someone actively trying to bring lifesaving assistance to people in trouble. It just isn't fair, I don't get it.

[Coventina]

4. These killers for hire......I have no words for my contempt

They are not human.

They are pure evil.

[saigon68]

5. They are getting even for the Rose Petal Parade in Fallujah

Its operation "Gun Down Everything that Moves"

[kestrel91316]

7. Well he was OBVIOUSLY a terrorist.

sarcasm off

(smilies window won't come up - Elad, I think we have a problem today)

[951-Riverside]

8. Seems like standard practice

I remember watching a video where an explosion happened near a convoy of mercs and they started shooting at random vehicles.

[Jara sang]

10. Fucking murderers.

[Baghdadi]

12. If you only knew...

It is so easy on this page for cowards to make claims such as "murderers" while you sit back in your nice cushy house. The point of fact is most of you are more than willing to jump all over the slightest story and throw up outrageous claims, when the truth is you are apparently misinformed.

The fact is that there have been a rash of of insurgents using ambulances as vehicle bombs. The procedure for these folks is to slow to a stop, before reaching an accident or incident site, so they can identify themselves properly before barreling into in area. This procedure protects the soldiers, or in this case contractors, and the Iraqi's who are truly medical professionals. Since the insurgents have been posing as authority figures to infiltrate secure areas for homicidal or suicidal missions, it has become necessary for them to identify first, and then resume thier work. Now whether we should be in Iraq or not is an entirely different discussion, but the fact is politics has us there and so we have Americans in the country, civilian and military, that are there to do a job. This particular situation has the contractors first attacked by a bomb. After that a vehicle, to them maybe an ambulance or maybe another bomb, comes at them at a high rate of speed with no positive identification. If it were me, I would've done the same thing to protect my life and the lives of the people involved in the mission.

I only hope that the people posting on this forum will find them time to become more informed about the situations BEFORE they decide to post a response that may be in ignorance. Whether we like the fact that we are in Iraq or not, we should be careful of our dialect directed at the people who did not put us there, but are only doing their jobs.

[xxqqqzme]

13. first of all call them what they are

MERCENARIES - HIRED GUNS.

Stop w/ the 'contractor' crap. They are there to kill. There is NOTHING noble about what they do and are doing. Whether we should be in Iraq or not IS the discussion! Otherwise their mercenary services would NOT be required!

[Baghdadi]

15. Once again...

Once again...you need to become more informed. Their purpose is not to kill and to say that it is only shows that you either don't know anyone who has ever worked for a contracting company in Iraq, you have never actually bothered to research different companies, you don't read all of the news, or you simply have it in your mind that you will form your opinions not based on logic and you could care less about your accuracy. I happen to know MANY people who work for different companies in Iraq, and I have been there myself last year as a military reservist. I can tell you with complete certainty, that NO ONE is sent here with a mission to kill anybody, and in fact one incident of a neglegent discharge of a weapon gets the contractor fired and sent home.

I am smart enough to know that your opinion will not be swayed because you already have your preconcieved notions of the world and no amount of factual information that I back myself up with will make any difference. In fact, I fully expect you to respond the way most other people do...with hateful dialog because you have no facts of your own to back youself up. So go ahead and start posting your hatred of me because I know a little something of what I am talking about. I am a big boy...I can handle it.

[Rex]

17. You bring nothing to the table but your own opinion.

You have no facts. Go ahead and defend the murder of someone if it makes you sleep better at night. You seem very fragile. Mercs are nothing more than rats with guns. :eyes:

[Baghdadi]

19. Wrong again

There you go again. I do not defend the murder of anyone, but given the environment that these men work in, I do defend their right to defend themselves. It absolutely was an unfortunate event, but in the environment over there, things can and will go wrong. It's not like a bunch of people woke up one day and said "hey...it might be fun to shoot up an ambulance today...lets do it", and for you to think so shows ignorance. If you will go back to my first paragraph in my original post and stop trying to get into a pissing match, you will see the facts of the correct procedures listed. Once again, I fully expect that you will ignore them.

[Rex]

21. Prove the facts; show a recent article that says Iraqi ambulances

are being used as cover for the insurgents. So shit happens and that is the end of it? Really myopic view you got there.

[Baghdadi]

28. Here's you articles

Since you wanted articles, heres two for you. Now you can provide me with information that documents what you say? Have none? I didn't think so.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/21/iraq.main/
http://www.command-post.org/2_archives/008852.html

[Rex]

29. Let us see

First link:
An ambulance drove into a wedding party and exploded in Youssifiya, a town south of Baghdad Friday evening, killing at least 12 people and wounding dozens of others, Iraqi police said.

Not the same type of event that you are arguing about, go back and google some more.

Second link:
Three ambulances packed with explosives, one with as much as 1,000 kilograms, were discovered by US and Iraqi forces here in the past few days, a senior US military spokesman said.

Happened 2 years ago, still no help for your side.

You have no argument here, you defend the murder of someone who was only a suspect and never questioned. Keep trying. :eyes:

[w4rma]

23. You just defended the murder of this nurse. In America this murder would

get 25 to life. With additional time for leaving the scene of a crime and callousness.

And, btw, these mercs aren't over there serving America. They are serving their bank accounts. The salary of a merc for 1 month is more than an American soldier in Iraq gets paid for 1 year.

[tkmorris]

24. You have got to be kidding

You say: "It's not like a bunch of people woke up one day and said "hey...it might be fun to shoot up an ambulance today...lets do it", and for you to think so shows ignorance. Only trouble is that no one ever said that. Nice strawman. Actually no it isn't, it's a bit silly frankly.

You go on to say:"If you will go back to my first paragraph in my original post and stop trying to get into a pissing match, you will see the facts of the correct procedures listed." Pissing match? You start your first post ever here calling posters cowards and then accuse someone else of starting a pissing match? Do you ever proofread your material or do you just let 'er rip?

As to your "facts", I cannot address them as you haven't posted any. If you do I'll be happy to discuss them.

[Baghdadi]

39. Touche

Touche on the comments...you are correct. I did come out with the coward reponse so you've got me there...perhaps that was a bit harse and preconcieved on my part. As far as the facts go, I posted two articles above where I was asked for proof. So if you truly want to discuss them, you can start there.

[tkmorris]

44. I saw the articles

They aren't exactly news to us here, we aren't a bunch of illiterates. However as another poster noted they don't fully support your position.

Look, we KNOW the situation our men are in over there. I fully understand that the danger is great enough that sometimes the policy is to shoot first and ask questions later. But you see, that is the PROBLEM. Once things deteriorate to that point the situation is completely untenable. American soldiers continue to get injured or killed and innocent Iraqis continue to die by the truckload, and the longer this goes on the more the average Iraqi on the street hates the occupiers.

A lot of us here at DU are angry because we knew this would happen and predicted it from day 1. Believe that, it's true. When Rumsfeld was assuring everyone that we would be greeted as liberators and the whole thing would be over in a few months with very few casualties we knew better. We knew that it isn't possible to force a healthy Democracy at the point of a gun. At best we could impose a dictator much like Saddam, but who was friendlier to US interests(See: Shah of Iran circa 1970's). However in Iraq even that isn't really possible anymore, if it ever was.

In the meantime 2500 American soldiers are dead, several times that many wounded, not to mention the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Iraqis killed, mostly civilian. To what end? Can you honestly tell me that you believe we have accomplished something there that is worth this cost?

[Baghdadi]

48. Somewhat agree

First off, I never said any of you were a bunch of illiterates...I said I thought you were misinformed. That is in no way a shot to anyones intelligence, it is just a reference to the amount of relevant material that you have been exposed to. The policy in Iraq is not to shoot first and ask questions later...however I must concede that it does happen. But based onthe HISTORY of ambulances being used as bombs, procedures of ambulances approaching a scene have been established. Because of our forces being attacked, we have to have extra precautions established. These particular drivers did not adhere to the established procedures. Unfortunately, we have to choose between the two eveils, and I don't like it anymore than anyone else. It is a horrific incident, but I would rather read about 1 Iraqi accidentally shot than read about 15 US killed because they failed to act based on what we know to be a tactic of the insurgency.

Once again...I have no argument with your points. I also felt from day 1 that this move was a mistake. America basically said there were three axis of evil, and we picked on the weakest one. After my year spent over there I came to the conclusion that we are trying to shove a square 21st century peg through a round 17th hole...and damnit if it won't fit, we'll hammer it until it does. I agree that regime change here has not done anything to help our country, and at this point we can't leave and our accomplishments are not worth the cost. But I want people to understand that these contractors are not here ordered to go out and murder people. They are here to provide protective services to American diplomats and official visitors. Given the constant prssure that they are under in the conditions they are under, they have to be suspect of everything if they want to live. That is just the reality of what they do and people choose to ignore it and label them as murderers and it frankly pisses me off. Now if an investigation is done and it turns out that the Iraqis were in fact following procedure and these men shot anyway, then they should absolutely be tried and imprisoned. But it is outrageous to throw around those accusations without facts.

And thanks for posting an intelligent response.

[Barrett808]

51. Baghdadi, I'm sure people would like to hear more on your experiences...

...in-country. Your observation about shoving a "square 21st century peg through a round 17th hole" is quite perceptive.

Maybe you can expand on that and post something over in Editorials or General Discussion, then link to it from this thread.

Are you a Marine, GI, or in some other service? What were you best and worst experiences? We love that kind of first-hand account here!

[Bridget Burke]

26. Please show us some information that is NOT just your opinion.

Are we all "cowards" because we are not in Iraq? If so, why did you leave?

[Baghdadi]

31. Excuse me?

I didn't leave...my tour was over. I am sure that my opinion on abortion or any other womens issue means nothing...because I am not a woman and therefore in no position to pass judgement on what I cannot possibly know anyhting about. The point is I try not to formulate opinions, especially with the hatred that many have voiced theirs, about something I know nothing about.

That being said, I have done my tour of duty and I HAVE experienced Iraq...the good, the bad, and the horrific. Therefore, I do know about procedures and tactics. Do any of you berating me have them same experience?

[Rex]

33. Sure ya do, and for the record you showed everyone your hatred

for people feeling sympathetic toward innocent iraqis in your very first post. FWIW, I served in the Army and think people who play the 'I've been there so you can't question me' card are juvenile at best.

[tkmorris]

35. Isn't it amazing?

People like him always seem to assume that DU is populated by a bunch of uninformed layabouts who have never seen the inside of a uniform. We have enough vets here to field a fair sized army and yet this guy thinks he's an "insider". The arrogance.....

[Rex]

36. I hate to admit to it

but that kinda shit drives me crazy! :mad:

[Baghdadi]

37. Sympathy?

Sympathy? What sympathy? It would be one thing if you came out and said "I feel so sorry for the Iraqi's whose families have now lost someone". But you didn't and niether did anyone else. The truth is yall don't give a damn about any sympathy towards these people. All you care about is attacking Americans whom you have already tried and convicted in your minds. Absolutely I can be questioned, and although you are being sarcastic, I love the heated discussion and I think the debate will only make everyone that much more informed, including myself.

Once again, I have to point out that I provided you with at least two articles to back up my claims, you provided me with nothing. I could provide you with dozens more, but just be honest for a second...no matter how much I provide, you have proven my point made earlier that you already have your opinion and cannot possibly entertain the fact that you may not know everything about this situation. It wouldn't make a difference if I provided you with 100 classified documents, you already have your mind made up.

[Rex]

38. Seems like a lot of us have our minds made up.

And for the record you gave links that did everything BUT prove your point. Hey, if you really want to defend murderers then that is you right to do so. I personally don't care, everyone feels a certain way about things so have at it.

[Baghdadi]

40. Links

My links did prove my point...the point being that insurgents are making bombs out of ambulances and using them...on civilians and US military. I don't have the time to look for every article in the world and provide you with a thousand links to what I have read, but on the very first search I came up with two on the first search page, whislt I am still waiting on yours to prove that these people were sent here to kill people.

And to all of you whom I have obviously gotten in an uproar, of course you have bad apples over here, military and civilian, and there has never been a war or an other conflict where you don't. But to assume that the men in this particular article were out of place and out to kill people is preposterous. For those of you who are supposedly former military, if any of you were ever "in the shit", then how can you possibly begin to judge these men as murderers in the situation they were in?

My entire point hear...however at times deluted, was that people need to make sure they know the situation and what they are talking about BEFORE they decide to pass such harse judgments on the people over here by calling them murderers.

[Rex]

42. They murdered a nurse, pretty cut and dry situation.

Once again...your links prove nothing about this particular situation in which you want people to know more about before giving their opinion. How ironic.

A IED went off and some contractors opened fire on an ambulance killing a nurse in cold blood. Spin away.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

43. By the same token then

how can you judge them as not murderers? You've got them innocent, others find them guilty. Who decides? You? Because you were there? (or at least post that you were there)

[OKNancy]

45. Hello. Of course we don't know the whole story

and you may not be aware of this, but DU has strict rules about smearing service members.
( from our rules: Do not post broad-brush smears against US service people. Do not blame the troops for the mistakes of their officers or their Commander-in-Chief. Show the appropriate level of respect to those individuals who have put their own lives on the line to defend this country )

I think what most DUers are very uneasy about is the role of mercenaries and paid security. These people are a whole different group than our guys and gals in the military.

Also, this is a discussion board, nothing more, nothing less. People tend to be a lot more testy here than in real life. But as a moderator of this forum ( Latest Breaking News) it gets to be really heartbreaking to read over and over about all the death and destruction.

[tkmorris]

47. That is NOT true

You said "I feel so sorry for the Iraqi's whose families have now lost someone". But you didn't and niether did anyone else. The truth is yall don't give a damn about any sympathy towards these people. All you care about is attacking Americans whom you have already tried and convicted in your minds."

That is completely false. If you could read over this board for the last couple of years you would see an ENORMOUS amount of sympathy for the Iraqi civilian populace. We constantly take heat about that from outsiders, acuusing us of "sympathizing with the enemy" and the like. In fact one of my biggest pet peeves are the idiots who give casulaty figures for the Iraq War but only count the American ones. The implication being that the Iraqis simply don't count, whether civilian or otherwise.

For the record we have many DU'ers here who also served in Iraq. You do not have a monopoly on the truth of the situation there.

[Baghdadi]

49. no monopoly

No one doubt's that many people have supported Iraqis and US that are here...I stated that in this forum prior to my post, it didn't happen. And of course, I do NOT have a monopoly on the truth in Iraq due to my time served, I have never said I did. That being said, do you? And if so, based on what? I am merely pointing out...again, that people in this post are ready to convict civilian contractors in Iraq when they don't have all the information. Thanks for your pet peeve list...mine would be when people decide to label our military or contractors as murderers without knowing jack.

And before you get all ticked off and post again...I am not saying that you don't know jack. I am saying that those people in this post who felt it appropriate to label all the contractors over here as murderers...they dont know jack! So don't go putting words in my mouth.

[Rex]

55. Tombstoned at 11 posts.

I'm surprised he got that far. How people can defend murder (no matter who does it, friend or foe) is beyond me.

[Barrett808]

27. But, in fact, we do know that mercs are killing people "for fun" in Iraq

We've seen the shameful footage.

[Rex]

30. Rose colored glasses.

Guess some people refuse to take em off, even with the still smoking corpses in front of em. :(

[gratuitous]

18. No one is sent with a mission to kill anybody

I guess it's just a happy coincidence that so many bodies hit the floor whenever the guys from Custer Battles are around, eh? Darn the luck.

[Barrett808]

20. Welcome to DU, Baghdadi!

:hi:

I think it's necessary to draw the distinction that these were mercenaries, who have a very poor reputation in Iraq. Have you seen the footage of mercs randomly killing people on the highway? Horrifying.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. There's a rash of Americans shooting ambulances...

and then claiming afterwards that it was self defense.

Looks like there's lots of people claiming lots of false things.

[mitchum]

34. I have NO pity for mercenaries, but maybe if you paid me enough...

I'm sure those craven killers will understand

[donco6]

41. They ARE murderers.

Regardless of what one Iraqi did with an ambulance, the fact is, in THIS case, these murder-for-hire mercenaries killed an innocent man for no reason. And they'll get away with it completely, as the original poster's article alluded. Something just doesn't seem right about that, for some strange reason.

[Roland99]

46. Wouldn't that ambulance have been...oh...BLOWN UP??

It's a matter of the US troops engaging in shoot/bomb first, fuck questions.

[truthisfreedom]

14. confusion, uncertainty, madness...

the fog of war.

[Rex]

16. Life means nothing to a merc. Fucking country is a hellhole.

Bush - worst president EVER. Biggest failure in US history.

[Julius Civitatus]

25. Mercenaries are getting away with MURDER in Iraq every day

and they are not subject to US or Iraqi law.

Getting away with murder, literally.