Principal bars ... student from singing anti-Bush song at talent show

[Newsjock]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-csong06may05,0,1136373.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines

Principal bars Coral Springs student from singing anti-Bush song at talent show
By Jamie Malernee
South Florida Sun-Sentinel
Posted May 5 2006

A 10-year-old Coral Springs girl won't be allowed to sing a controversial President Bush-bashing ballad at her school talent show after her principal deemed it inappropriate and too political.

The song, Dear Mr. President, performed and co-written by the singer Pink, criticizes the president for the war in Iraq and other policies, including his stance on gay rights.

Parent Nancy Shoul says her daughter Molly should be lauded for choosing lyrics that are full of substance rather than pop music fluff. She said the principal's ban sends a bad message and violates her daughter's right to free speech.

"If this was a student singing a pro-administration song, no one would quibble with it," Shoul said. "The principal is just running scared and doesn't want to upset any parents."

The principal of Park Springs Elementary, Camille Pontillo, could not be reached for comment Thursday. In an e-mail provided by the mother, Pontillo explained that the song Molly "chose to sing is a political song and does use the word hell in it." A Broward County School District official said the principal has every right to determine what music her students should hear at a school function.

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[babylonsister]

1. This is sure to raise a few eyebrows, from everyone! nt

[susanna]

77. The best part...

...is that it is the flip side of the neo-Christian folks who want their stuff allowed at every turn, because their free speech is being violated.

Amazing times we live in...

[acmavm]

2. I have to say, that's pretty smart of the kid to understand

(if she does really) what this song is saying. I also have to say why is it always obligatory for events regardless of what they are be politicized. The kid's ten. The other kids, I suspect, aren't much older. And why not just look at it for what it is, a kid's talent show? Something that's supposed to be cute, make the kids feel good, exhibit their talent, and make their parents proud. Why make every situation uncomfortable or cause a stir?

[Lochloosa]

3. I would think that singing the song would exhibit her talent.

Nothing would have come out of this and we would not be reading about it if the Principle had just let her sing. Unless, of course, someone records it and sends it to hannity.

[grytpype]

7. Ah, the kid's mom obviously pushed her into this.

Do you think a 10 year old is going to be into politics and want to sing a protest song????? It's obviously her mom's idea.

[Chrisduhfur]

9. Or the kid just like the song....

I dunno, although I tend to agree that you're more than right.

[NavyDavy]

13. I guess 15 yr olds can't make great political videos either...

without their parents telling them too.....that is a bad assumption...on your part that the kid didn't want to do it on her own...

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

14. The kid might just like it.

Lots of kids like Pink. Sometimes kids like things that might not seem appropriate for their age level.

My sister's favorite movie at FIVE was "Dirty Dancing." We had weird parents. Very conservative, but we were always allowed to watch anything we wanted. The only thing I ever recall being banned from the home was Eminem after his homophobia crap. Even that was weird, because my parents were homophobes.

[Kailassa]

17. My son, at 9 years old, stood up

in front of a parent's night at cubs and gave a beautiful talk, (all in a sweet, innocent monotone because he has asperger's sydrome,) on pollution and global warming. He had tough local fathers in tears, and changed the attitudes of a few.

I took him to the library every week and he'd always bring home an armful of adult reference books, but I had not mentioned global warming to him, and had not realized he was researching it.

Never make blanket assumptions about what people can do. Some people are drastically different to others. And even a person who you know well and think is quite "ordinary" can surprise you, showing a side you have never seen before.

[bleedingheart]

25. he sounds so much like my son...

that is great!!!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. Do you think an adult is going to listen to Pink?

[Mythsaje]

36. I'm 39

and I've been listening to Pink since she released her second CD. It's still one of my top ten favorites.

My wife likes it almost as much as I do. So, yeah, adults listen to Pink.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. Have you got a kid?

Or are you naturally interested in pop music aimed at twelve year olds?

;-)

[TheWatcher]

45. Pretty Ignorant statement on your part

Pinks fan base has a pretty wide demographc. I'd love to see you make that statement to her face.

Simply fascinating logic I am seeing from some at DU of late.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

46. Say it to her face?

When the Mickey Mouse Club tour swings around to my area I'll see if I can.

:evilgrin:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

52. That's weird because my dad liked her when she first came out.

He was 49 or so. I'm sure he'd still like her, if he was alive. My mom listens to her and she's 53. My friend Steve is a huge fan and he's 44.

As for myself, well I'm a fan and I'm 23, I think most would consider it a bit old for the Mickey Mouse Club.

[bigluckyfeet]

93. I bought the song on Itunes,I Love It

It really kicks monkey butt,try to hear or buy the song.

[Mythsaje]

47. Not at home I don't...

And I like a lot of different music.

Have you ever heard her Missundaztood in its entirety? There's some pretty cool stuff on it, including a very bluesy duet with Steven Tyler entitled Misery. It ain't Britney Spears. Songs like My Vietnam and Gone to California are definitely not aimed at your average 12 year old. The girl's a good songwriter, and puts together some seriously catchy hooks.

Suffice to say that "Dear Mr. President" didn't surprise me. I knew she had it in her to write something like this. The girl's got heart. And soul.

And, yeah, I've got kids, but neither of them are particularly interested in music yet, from what their mother tells me. My oldest turns 11 next month. I'll be turning him onto all the stuff I like when he visits this summer, get him started right.

:D

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

57. Always had a good appreciation of pop music.

In fact, I've been an interested observer of the genre for quite a while now.

My point being, to say a ten year old girl isn't going to be interested in singing/lip synching a Pink song is just plain silly.

[Mythsaje]

81. Self-delete

[Mythsaje]

82. Yup...

Pink's public persona (and her tongue in cheek blast at pop culture in her new song "Stupid Girls" is a great one for the young 'uns to emulate. Far better, in my estimation, than someone like Spears or Aguilara (though I can't fault the latter's voice. She's an incredible singer). I think the tomboy, hardass image is a better one for the girls to look up to, personally.

I think Pink's all-around cool.

[Stand and Fight]

50. I'm going to take it that you're kidding...

At almost 30 years old, I like pink and I would hardly say that her music is aimed at twelve year olds. If you're being sarcastic, cool. If not -- get a grip.

[Ezlivin]

54. I'm 49

And my wife (48) and I listen to P!nk and love her stuff, from "Let's Get the Party Started" to "Dear Mr. President".

I also like electronica, trance, heavy metal and classical.

Music is for everyone, everywhere of all ages.

[DRoseDARs]

58. Not everyone wants to listen to a bunch of ageing singers...

...sing about their aches and pains and how many pills they have to take a day. So yes, adults DO listen to music other than what fits YOUR personal tastes. Shocking but true: Not everyone is you.

[Le Taz Hot]

44. Why not?

I was doing it at 12 (1967) and yes, I was VERY politically aware.

[silverstateD]

48. sure 10 years old......

no brain no soul at that age right??? bull i think she may very well have an oppinion I did at that age, it wasn't very well reasoned but it was my own none the less.

[Stand and Fight]

49. That is absolutely hogwash...

I was keenly intrested in the 1988 presidential contest between George HW Bush and Micheal Dukakis, and I was barely 10 years old at the time. Even before that I had found pollitics fascinating... It was clear to me when I watched the news that the Willy Horton ad was a hit below the belt and race baiting as all get out. Kids are no where near as uninformed or unaware as adults so frequently like to think. Hell, I even remember thinking how bad Iran-Contra was back then, because it seemed that a lot of powerful people had lied. So, it is entirely possible that this young lady decided to sing this song of her own free will with little or no influence from her mother.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

55. Actually, looking back...

At 10, I was reading "grown-up" books and listening to real music, not teeny bopper stuff. I was fairly aware of what was going on in the news.

Edited to add: "at 10"

[Luna_Chick]

80. When I was 10, I was reading Best Evidence

about the JFK assassination without being told to/asked to/assigned to, formulated my own opinions on what I determined were massive flaws in the Warren Commission's official findings on the matter. On the flip side, I have friends over the age of 35 who not only don't vote, they don't know half of what is being discussed on these boards.

[Zorra]

87. When I was 10, some of my friends and I protested the destruction

of our forest by sitting in front of bulldozers in a small canyon. The police were called and our parents were pretty pissed. Our parents had nothing to do with our little sit-in protest, and were horrified at our actions.

There are some kids that just "get it" at a very young age.

[havocmom]

94. When I was 10, I was making my own posters for national issues

My friends and I had very lively political discussions in the park and were known to challenge authority when we saw it as being oppressive. I also campaigned against the ban on girl newspaper carriers in my town.

Made a pledge THEN that if I ever had a daughter, NOBODY would ever tell HER she couldn't do something just because she was a girl

Ended up having that daughter. She was reading Best Evidence & kicking holes in the Warren Commission Report at, oh, about age 10! Nowadays, she thrives on the time she can spend with a welding torch in her hands. :hi: sweetie! ;)

[RFKHumphreyObama]

103. I was totally politically independent in my beliefs by the time I was 10

And I did sing a song lampooning the (then) Prime Minister of my country at a school talent show when I was 11 -and yes, they allowed me to sing it. And my parents didn't even know I was going to do it

By that age, I was telling my parents which way they thought I should vote, had clear opinions on the political leaders of the day and was perfectly capable of making up my own mind on issues. It's not so far out of the question to consider that this kid may have done the same

[Chrisduhfur]

8. I wondered if the kid just like the song...

Maybe not really understanding what it's about, but either way I tend to agree with the school on this. Not because I don't think people should should 'bash' the administration but because of the backlash it would cause by those who may support Bush. Why even give a chance to opportunity? If I was in this guys shoes I would have done the same thing just to save the school the headaches. Now if this was a university or even a high school current events class then that would be a different story.

Also if the situation was reversed and this was an anti-XXXX song with XXXX being someone you liked, would be saying to yourself "damn blah blah neeed to stop brainwashing their children" or calling the kid a little "brown shirt future fascist"? lol, come on now, I could see it now. Also be sure to put yourself in the school admins position and what you think would be best for the school and not your ideals.

[pnwmom]

98. Have you seen the video? I bet the girl did, because Pink's

performance is very expressive. Her face shows all her emotions. I'm not surprised at all that a ten year old singer would want to try her own version of it.

[Cyrano]

4. This 10-year-old may someday be president of the United States.

Her first act would probably be to proclaim a George W. Bush Day as a national day of shame.

Go for it, kid. You've got more brains and grit than most of those around you.

[LizW]

5. I think this would be a problem in most schools

I can't imagine any elementary school allowing a child to sing a song with the word "hell" in it. I don't care how appropriate the context is, it's just asking for trouble.

I find the song beautiful and meaningful, but it's not appropriate for a 10 year old to sing at a school performance.

[w4rma]

31. The word "hell" can be switched out easily. The principal doesn't want

the song sung at all though.

[StuckinKS]

51. I agree!

If the principal had told me as that parent that she was banning the song because it had the word "hell" in it, I would have said, "That's baloney. The word can easily be repaced with heck. See how I just said "baloney" instead of "bullshit"?

[pnwmom]

99. So take out the word "hell."

But I bet what they really hate is the reference to Bush's past consumption of whisky and cocaine.

[Botany]

6. But the school's web page is sponsored by DISNEY

http://www.greatschools.net/modperl/browse_school/fl/385

Got to keep those young minds pure.

[bluestateguy]

10. The principal is kind of out of the mainstream here

She is only representing the views of 33% of Americans. The principal needs to get with the program and join with the majority.

[brentspeak]

40. I hope you're being sarcastic

Educators are not supposed to march in lockstep. (Neither should any human being for any reason, for that matter.)

[soothsayer]

11. When I was a kid there was controversy over a kid singing House

of the Rising Sun (he did, tho, and did a great job, playing the guitar and all), and another kid sang Boy Named Sue, which has a curse word in it. (1960's)

[rpannier]

12. I gotta go with the principal

There's too many problems aasociated with letting her sing it. I think most people who think she should be allowed to sing the song would feel different if the song bashed Dean, Feingold, etc.

[Lib Grrrrl]

20. Not Me!!

And, by the way, I'll be the first to admit: my support for this child comes solely and completely because the song bashes Bush. ANYTHING that bashes Bush is a good thing, and I say let her sing it and wake a few of the parents out of their Kool-Aid slumber.

You're also right, I WOULD have a problem with the kid singing if the song in question bashed Dean or Feingold - because they don't DESERVE to be bashed...Bush does!

More to the point, I would have a problem with this child singing a pro-Bush song!

I am biased, I freely admit it for all to see. And, quite frankly, anyone who doesn't agree with my point of view can simply leave the country! I've suffered enough! MY turn for some good times...get those Repukes OUT!!

[rpannier]

85. I applaud your honesty.

At least you have the honesty and integrity not to couch your personal feelings in some sort of pseudo-neutrality.

Thank you for your honesty. It's refreshing.

[pnwmom]

68. What are the problems associated with her singing it?

Other than she might offend some people? I don't get it.

[rpannier]

84. Where do you draw the line?

She sings this song and at the next talent show someone decides they want to sing a song about how Russ Feingold, or some other Dem sux. Or, wants to read a poem, story etc criticizing local, state or national government. The school needs to set boundaries, so that everyone who attends the talent show can enjoy themselves. Schools are supposed to present a politically neutral position when it comes to politics.
On another note (and it might be irrelevant to the discussion on some levels) I can think of nowhere else on this planet where this would be an issue. I've lived in the Czech Republic and now live in Korea. I've traveled to many countries and no place where I've been would they let any student sing a song that criticizes the head of state or the head of government at a school function.

[pnwmom]

95. The point is for the students to express their talent, not for the

audience to enjoy themselves

Sorry, but unless your child happens to be the one performing, most of the time it's just boring!

[Gabi Hayes]

102. god.....are you right. I work in a Jr. High school, and both our

school plays and variety shows are simply dreadful. so bad they're not even funny. if I could sit through those things every day, I'd live to be a thousand, because there's a reft in the time/space continuum when some thirteen year old tries to become Conrad Birdie.

god help us

students are doing it for themselves, and, believe me, not much attention is being paid by the youthful audience

in a grade school, it's even more the case. the only ones who'd have a clue as to what she was singing about would be the staff, unless they CHOSE to make a learning experience out of it, god forbid

but now, I hope, they'll be FORCED to

[Gabi Hayes]

101. great! let's be MORE like North Korea!

fabulous reasoning

[demgurl]

88. I feel the kid should be allowed to sing the song...

with a slight modification to the word 'hell'. I would not feel differently no matter who she was singing about.

At one time the KKK came through my city and did a march. Rather than protest the actual KKK we all realized they had a right to say whatever they wanted to. We let them march their route and everyone who was against them did a different route preaching about love and peace. I may not like what the KKK had to say but they have a right to say what they do. I would never try to stop their march because it would be the same as limiting my right of free speech.

People have tried to shut me up. One person told me, in front of my kids, that if I did not like this country I should leave it. (she did not like my bumper stickers)I used that as a lesson of free speech for my boys. I explained how it was rude what she said but one of the most important things in our country is free speech and we needed to respect that that lady had a right to say what she did.

I would think this little girl would be commended on how bright she is. Did the principal go to her and talk to her about the song to see if she understood what it means? If the little girl understood, did the principal say what a wonderful awareness she has of our system? I hope the parent has at least used this as a spring board about our political system and how it is incumbent upon all of us to speak out. This could be a great lesson for this child.

[Iblis]

15. The only thing is, this isn't just some protest song

This isn't some obscure Joan Baez song or Steve Earle, this is Pink.
This is a Top Ten song.
The kid just wants to sing a song she likes.
At least it's a song with some sort of substance.
Considering the content of a lot of stuff I hear nowadays, "Hell" is pretty lightweight.
I guarantee if it was "Courtesy of the Red White and Blue" or "Have You Forgotten", the kid would have no problem.

Heh. I just realized. Florida. Of course the Principal wouldn't want any trouble.

*sigh*

L

[Supersedeas]

16. Brittney Spears is fine - but actual political engagement: NO WAY

Some message

[bmcatt]

18. One question for everyone who's siding with the principal

Since when does the First Amendment only apply if you're an adult?

I'm willing to grant that the First Amendment doesn't cover shouting "Fire" in a crowded theater, but this isn't that.

[northzax]

19. since the Supreme Court has ruled

many times, that the first amendment is not absolute in public schools. And it shouldn't be. Mainly because children don't have the option to attend. If you say something on the street corner, I can leave. A ten year old is legally required to be in school, therefore some reasonably limits on speech are imposed. If she has asked to sing "Hang the Jew from the old Oak Tree" would you expect the Jewish students in school to sit there and listen? after all, not being in school is a crime, so they would have the choice of hearing offensive speech, or breaking the law. that's a hobson's choice.

[bmcatt]

21. "Hate" speech vs. freedom of expression

Much as I abhor using the term "hate speech" since it has way too much of a tendency to make a crime of ideas. However, I still claim that's a false analogy because your example is (probably) definitely offensive whereas the student in question wanted to sing a protest song.

For that matter, what if "Hang the Jew from the old Oak Tree" were satirical in nature, rather than (as the title would suggest) offensive and bigoted?

Given the number of times that I, *as a Jew*, was forced to watch and participate in Christmas stuff in school, I find it funny to think of anyone else "forced" to sit in school and listen to stuff they don't like. Karma can be a bitch.

[northzax]

23. and you shouldn't have been forced to sit through any of it

but do two wrongs make a right?

[ElboRuum]

35. Two wrongs make a "fair"

[northzax]

42. actually, two jugglers and a ferris wheel

make a fair. two wrongs make two wrongs.

[ElboRuum]

60. Two wrongs make two wrongs... that seems fair to me. n/t

[brentspeak]

37. 1st Amendment doesn't apply to a child while in a classroom

or even while in a school talent show.

Should the student be allowed to dictate terms to the teacher?

[stanwyck]

62. Actually, if you listened to Air America last night

you'd know that she does have the right, as an American, to display her political dissent at school. This was decided in the late '60's. And the defendant won.
Unfortunately, too many people are ignorant of their own civil rights.
The law is on her side.

[stanwyck]

65. There is no legal precedent for what

you're saying -- particularly in a public school. Quite the reverse.
There is legal precedent protecting her right to express herself - politically - at school.
You're in the No Fact Zone.

[brentspeak]

72. Since you didn't provide any facts

Other than say, "Air America said...", it appears you're also in the "No Fact Zone".

[stanwyck]

74. Janeanne laid it all out last night

on this topic. Sorry. I can't give you the name of the case from 1969 which confirmed students and teachers rights to display political views while in the public schools. But I am curious about your contention that the First Amendment doesn't cover students. Is there precedent for that statement?
Private schools which don't receive federal funding may be able to infringe on rights.
However, public schools cannot. We're not talking dress codes here. We're talking political expression.
Fortunately, there are people who don't merely accept the "you cannot". They find out what their rights are and go forth. Teaching civics in school would be a start. And could be eye-opening for students and teachers. But I don't imagine conservatives want students or teachers to know their rights.

[Bill McBlueState]

76. Tinker vs. Des Moines school district

"The courts base their decisions on the landmark 1969 case of Tinker v. Des Moines School District, which upheld the right of students to wear black armbands protesting the Vietnam War, even in a public school."

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/rel_liberty/publicschools/faqs.aspx?faq=all

Thanks for giving me the impetus to look this up. I wasn't previously aware of this specific ruling.

[brentspeak]

91. The ruling specifically does not give students a blanket right

to political expression inside the schools. Here's the specific link within that website:


http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/speech/studentexpression/topic.aspx?topic=speakingout

"In the 1969 case Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District, the high court ruled 7-2 that school officials violated the First Amendment rights of three Iowa students by suspending them for wearing black armbands to school. Even though the students were not technically speaking, the high court determined that the wearing of the armbands to protest the war was a form of symbolic speech "akin to pure speech." The court referred to the wearing of the armbands as a "nondisruptive, passive expression of a political viewpoint."

The Supreme Court established a protective standard for student expression in Tinker, which says that school officials cannot censor student expression unless they can reasonably forecast that the expression will cause a substantial disruption of school activities or will invade the rights others."

[pnwmom]

69. The school should promote freedom of speech, whenever possible

This wouldn't be disruptive, it would be a performance.

[KansDem]

22. "choosing lyrics that are full of substance rather than pop music fluff"

Amen to this. There has been a need for substance in pop music since Elvis shook his pelvis on the Ed Sullivan show (and was only shown from the waist up)

[Norquist Nemesis]

26. Gotta wonder if the Principal is nixing "all" political songs

or just those that she anticipates are going to get her a slew of angry phone calls to the BOE. There are a few songs out there by CW artists that I think are 'political'...others think they are 'patriotic'.

Dunno. Maybe the Principal made the correct decision. She's got the backing of the Board, so she's in the clear for now. But the Board's statement that "the principal has every right to determine what music her students should hear at a school function" is a bit troubling in it's wording. (Nitpick: She's choosing what they CAN'T hear.) If it's what they should hear as the school board official commented, then the Principal should just go ahead and have an approved list that the students can choose from.

[ElboRuum]

34. If the principal wasn't a Bushie sycophant

like I believe her to be, she could have done this another way. Of course it would have required a spine, so I don't really know if she could have pulled it off.

The part of the Bushie Parent shall be played by a liberal brain speaking the thoughts of a Bushie brain in unvarnished de-euphemized format. The part of the principal shall be played by the twin concepts of reason and exasperation.

Say the girl sang her little song...
And say that some of the parents decided to call the school and bitch about it...

BUSHIE PARENT: "How the hell could you let that girl sing that song? What are you teaching over there at that school? Are you training communists over there? Our president deserves more respect than that and so do we!"

PRINCIPAL: "The school does not involve itself in making the decisions regarding what songs the children can sing in the school talent show, unless that song is offensive or inappropriate for the occasion. She was in no way coerced into singing it. She chose it of her own accord and, other than the word 'hell' which was changed, there was no usage of any foul language, nor was it of a sexual nature as is found so many other popular selections these days. Because its not offensive, I couldn't, in good conscience, tell her that this song could not be sung because it was offensive. And as far as inappropriate for the occasion, since it is a talent show with no theme, anything that isn't offensive by that definition is considered fair game."

BUSHIE PARENT: "How can you say it isn't offensive? It openly promotes sympathy for ungodly liberal things and directly criticizes the President, who is a kind, decent, and moral man! I find that very offensive!"

PRINCIPAL: "The school has a mandate to educate children based upon the dictates of the school board and by proxy, the parents. However, this is not precisely a school matter, it is a voluntary extracurricular activity organized by the school. Moreover, the school, even should it agree with you that this could be interpreted as offensive to some people, is not in any way mandated to dictate political positions to individual students or their parents, or for that matter is it permitted to stand in the way of the reasonable expression thereof."

BUSHIE PARENT: "REASONABLE?!? What is so reasonable about allowing a child to sing a song that is precisely designed to offend people who think that the way the Republicans are governing the country is a GOOD thing?!"

PRINCIPAL: "It is very clear to me that it isn't the song that offends you so much that we would allow a song such as would be offensive to you to be sung. As I've stated, a student's personal views and the right to express them in a reasonable manner is something we are mandated to protect...

If her point of view offended you so much, maybe you should be calling this girl and her parents and explain it to them precisely how much you were offended. You can find the number in the Student Directory. However, I seriously doubt you have the stones for such a direct confrontation."

*CLICK*

[brentspeak]

38. On what grounds is the principal a "Bushie sycophant"?

I'm the furthest thing from a Bush fan, but I would do the exact same thing as the principal in a case like this: take the politics outside, off of school grounds, after school hours.

[ElboRuum]

59. Unfortunately...

At least if you haven't noticed, the politics are being taken into the schools, largely by the right-wing. No to evolution. Yes to school prayer. And here, no to political expression which might make a specific segment of the population known for its intolerant views uneasy. Note that she's not worried about offending parents who might consider this silencing an affront?

As far as "what grounds", I would suspect that this same person's attempt to get the student with the T-shirt suspended would at least start to suggest a pattern. The fact is, though, it was because of the pressure she anticipated from Bushie supporters that she took this tack. They hollared (or at least it was believed they would hollar) and she allowed that to dictate her decision. A person who simply does what they're told (or in this case, what they believe they will be told) just to stay in the good graces of a certain group of people IS a sycophant, regardless if she supports Bush or not.

[brentspeak]

73. You did not convince me

"The fact is, though, it was because of the pressure she anticipated from Bushie supporters that she took this tack. They hollared (or at least it was believed they would hollar) and she allowed that to dictate her decision."

If that's in another article, please cite it. Because it sure wasn't in the article linked above.

[ElboRuum]

89. It's not in that article...

To get to that, I read between the lines...

The position of the school can be summed up in the following:

"This is a fifth-grade student that wants to perform a song filled with lyrics about drug use, war, abortion, gay rights and profanity," said district spokeswoman Nadine Drew. "This is an elementary school that includes kindergarteners and pre-K students."

Now putting aside the fact that some of this "objectionable" material isn't even IN the song, we look at the litany of controversial issues. If these are the ones cited, then clearly there isn't fear of offending liberal parents since this song deals directly with the liberal side in a good light. There is, clearly, an intimation of offense to some in this position, and it is clear whom this will offend.

As such, I feel it reasonable to conjecture that it was the anticipated backlash from right-wing parents which was to be assiduously avoided.

I'm sorry I couldn't be more convincing.

[stanwyck]

63. And you'd be breaking the law

and could be taken to court.
She has a right, as an American, to sing the song.
The law is on her side. She can sue the school if her civil liberties are revoked.
Politics are allowed within schools. Schools may act as though they aren't, but if parents/students challenge, they'd win. And have. That's the legal precedent.
It's unfortunate that an educator is breaking the law -- not the best example for students.

[stanwyck]

64. Air America covered this last night

including all the legal precedents.
It would help us all to be better educated on our rights. Then, people wouldn't be able to tell us "no" with such authority...when they actually don't have that authority. I guess just speaking with conviction is enough to scare off many people. Like Colbert told us, "no facts. Just from the gut." And people get by that way.
The facts are on the girl's side. Not the principal's.

[pnwmom]

70. "Current events" is an entirely appropriate school subject.

And that can mean discussing controversial political subjects. A good way to turn kids off from school is to tell them they can only study history, never current events.

[AzDar]

27. My 10-year old son FULLY understands the lyrics to the song, and

LOVES it. It's currently a POPULAR song.
If the song were pro-Chimpolini, there'd be no problem.
The song is not in any way in poor taste; it's a matter of politics, and you'd better believe I'd be raising hell.
Let her SING!

[SammyBlue]

28. Wow. . .In my Master's Degree program to become a school administrator

We just had an "in-box" on this exact topic. Except our in-box was dealing with a student who was in trouble with a teacher who wearing a "Question Authority" T-shirt.

My response was simple: Call the child in, with the parents. Explain how this song will likely raise the ire of some parents. Ask the student to edit the word "hell" to something more child-friendly and tell the student that I would defend her decisions without any second's hesitation. While I might not agree with your position (even though I do), the fact that you have the courage of your conviction to do and sing a song you feel is socially important is laudable and speaks well of you as a person.

But you see, I believe in the 1st amendment, and don't hide behind this weak argument of "community standards" like most sycophantic school board members, superintendents and administrators do.

And I know I will make a lousy principal.

[ElboRuum]

29. That they'd kybosh the song isn't really shocking...

Why mold young minds if you can't mold them the way you want them molded, right? Clearly the principal is a biased chucklehead whose entire focused world view revolves around the binary intellectual travesties of squelching opposing opinions and not offending anybody whether they need a good offending or not.

Interesting to me is that you can tell that this song she wants to sing is particularly political and she understands that from the looks of things.

What shocks me about this is how utterly pervasive politics has become. Generally, very young children don't know much about what politics is, nor do I think should they know, in a perfect world. Politics is an ugly business that should be relatively unknown to the blissful ignorance of youth. I believe that every time a child has to deal with this sort of adult ugliness on an equivalent level with the adults with which they find themselves at odds, that child has not any choice other than to be harmed or disillusioned by the interaction.

Specifically, why does this child have to deal directly with the fact that her principal and some of the parents in the neighborhood would be offended by a song which, other than the word 'hell' could not be interpreted as offensive except to those intolerant of views opposing the administration (and honestly, are we really interested in protecting people with egos this fragile anymore)?

I have a feeling had this song lauded the administration, not a word would be said against it.

So, in the end, we have Innocence Lost, Chapter 1,432,244:

This child gets lesson #1 in how the world works at an early age: If you want to express an opinion, you either express the one we tell you is appropriate, or you shut up.

I have a feeling that this kid's going to be a future Democrat, one with an ENORMOUS chip on her shoulder.

[tomg]

30. When I read the entire article, I noticed that

this same school system got into a bit of a problem last year regarding student rights:

"The decision to pull the song comes about a year after the School Board decided to allow a high school student to wear a T-shirt with the face of President Bush and the phrase "International Terrorist."

Of course, they only reversed the decision because of the ACLU: "Initially, the Nova High School student was told he would be suspended if he did not remove the shirt, but later the American Civil Liberties Union threatened to sue and the board changed its dress code rules."

And for those of you who think that the young girl was pushed into it by her mother, I really don't know, but when my kid was in the 5th grade in a Catholic School, they had to do a presentation on the Sermon on the Mount, so he did Gandhi and "Blessed are the Peacemakers." Surprised the hell out of us, until we thought for about three seconds: this is what he gets at home all the time (at the time his favorite movies were Spartacus, Glory and Gandi - now, alas, they are The Aristocrats and anything with Adam Sandler). Maybe she was pushed, or maybe it is just a case of apples and trees and where things fall.

[noonwitch]

32. It's not an appropriate venue for a political statement

It's a kids talent show. I'm sure she could find a less controversial song to sing. I think the song about the woman president by Pink would be more appropriate.

[IndyOp]

33. But kids should be allowed to be political if they are taking the

initiative. If Mom and Dad push them to sing a song, then no. But if it was the girl's idea - then she should get to sing "Dear Mr. President".

I grew up singing anti-war songs in kid singing groups in the early 70's (elementary school chorus and neighborhood sing-a-long). And my parents were conservative: They voted for Reagan and their "Nixon's The One" button was hanging up until I moved away for college in 1983.

My favorite:

One Tin Soldier (The Legend of Billy Jack)
by Lambert-Potter, sung by Coven

Listen, children, to a story
That was written long ago,
'Bout a kingdom on a mountain
And the valley-folk below.

On the mountain was a treasure
Buried deep beneath the stone,
And the valley-people swore
They'd have it for their very own.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

So the people of the valley
Sent a message up the hill,
Asking for the buried treasure,
Tons of gold for which they'd kill.

Came an answer from the kingdom,
"With our brothers we will share
All the secrets of our mountain,
All the riches buried there."

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

Now the valley cried with anger,
"Mount your horses! Draw your sword!"
And they killed the mountain-people,
So they won their just reward.

Now they stood beside the treasure,
On the mountain, dark and red.
Turned the stone and looked beneath it...
"Peace on Earth" was all it said.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

[Mythsaje]

39. I DESPERATELY wish

someone would cover this song. It needs to be reintroduced to the world. I grew up loving this song.

[rinsd]

41. Me First and the Gimme Gimme's do a pretty cool version (nt)

[stanwyck]

61. Couldn't disagree more

school is absolutely the place where ideas should be discussed. This is a perfect opportunity for teachers to educate their students about political dissent, our rights under our Constitution, and the rule of law.
The case for political commentary at school was already tried in the late '60's -- and discussed last night on Air America.
The school cannot legally prevent her from singing a political song. OR prevent a student or teacher from wearing a political pin or T-shirt. That case was decided and the defendant won.
Maybe the schools should return to teaching civics so the children, and teachers (and parents!) would realize what being an American truly means.
If people were truly educated on our rights in this country, this wouldn't even be an issue.
You might disagree with her singing the song, but she has the right -- as an American -- to sing that song at her school.

[tennlib]

66. I agree

with you 100% Stanwyck!
The neocons are just concerned with churning out future generations of uninformed,uninvolved braindead children.No thinking needed or required,we(the PNACers)will tell you all you need to know.

[stanwyck]

67. thank you. And welcome

to DU.

[sudio]

92. Also agree with Stanwick

The 10 year old should be able to sing whatever she wants. And a student neocon should also be able to sing one of their favorite songs. The issue is Free Speech. Free Speech for all.

[pnwmom]

71. I bet they'd let her sing "Dixie."

They just don't want her to sing a "liberal" song.

[Dr Fate]

75. I know- next they will be teaching civics at schools- oh, the horror.

n/t

[carolinablue]

86. I agree

While I believe in freedom of speech - allowing a 10 year-old to sing a song with profanity in it is not appropriate. Whether you think "hell" is mild considering today's standards, you are talking about an elementary school performance. I won't even allow my students to say "this sucks". There are children as young as five in the school. The principal must balance the sensibilities of many. This is not high school or a university. I'm a true blue liberal, but I also think one has to consider the event and the audience. This is not appropriate. I'm with the principal

[pnwmom]

96. Why not just ask her to take out the ONE word that is "inappropriate"

Although most of us think that given this President's record, "hell" is an understatement.

[rocktivity]

53. He should sing a pro-Steve Colbert song instead.

:evilgrin:
rocknation

[stepnw1f]

56. What a Great Lesson to Teach about Freedom of Expression

or speech...

[GoddessOfGuinness]

78. What could be more political than our schools?

I remember having debates on who the best candidate was when I was in elementary school.

[pnwmom]

97. And they still do have political debates, even in elementary school

[Toucano]

79. And if this were 1999 and it was an anti-Clinton song

there would have been no controversey.

Funny how the definition of "too political" is so transient.

[Oversea Visitor]

83. Looks more like a DICTATORSHIP

as each day pass x(

[wellst0nev0ter]

90. Since I Have To Put Up All Week With Mallard Fillmore

inveighing against a school that allegedly banned students from wearing "patriotic clothing" (actually, the school enforced a ban against clothes with ANY flags due to frequent confrontations between students displaying Mexican flags and American flags) I wonder when Tinsley and the rest of the wingnutards will stand up for this girl's right?

[pnwmom]

100. "You've come a long way . . . from WHISKEY and COCAINE!"

My favorite line from the song. And probably the one the Bushies really hate. A lot more incendiary than the little word "hell."