NSA expert: Next relevation will be ISP, cell phone wiretaps

[rustydog]

In Salon article, intelligence expert predicts next media report will show US listened in

Salon's Kim Zetter asks intelligence historian Matthew Aid about the latest reports on the National Security Agency's wiretap program. Here was one of his responses (Full story here).

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/NSA_expert_Next_relevation_will_be_0515.html

Man, and the republicans scream bloody hell when we compare this Administration to Nazis.
If NSA isn't like the Gestapo, I don't know what is.

[Pavulon]

1. Umm yeah.

That is what they do..Elecronic intelligence and surveillance of enemies of the state..

[bullimiami]

3. and 'the state' apparently now consists of bush-cheney corp and what

they want.

the rest of us are enemies. a threat to their power.

[KAZ]

6. Hmm, missed your sarcasm tag, pal. n/t

n/t

[Pavulon]

11. Not needed

The Job and scope of what the NSA does has not change since its inception.

The NSA does not give a shit about what you post or who you call on skype.

How the executive branch accesses this information is the real issue.

It would be very unwise for anyone to cut off the nose to spite the administration.

[KAZ]

15. Horseshit.

The NSA is not some institution created and ordained by God. Government entities operate under the authority granted to them by the people, via their representatives, and the constitution, period. Those who do not understand or accept that, are living in the wrong country.

[Pavulon]

19. Good luck with that

Try walking in the door at ft meade. Mi6 will be happy to tell you their running operations.

Ever country has secret agencies who spy.

It is funded by congress and is a military institution. Which means you (and I) have zero access to it.

[KAZ]

23. Don't need luck, pal.

Just need a constitution, and a congress and judiciary who will enforce it. Something tells me you have a problem with that.

[Pavulon]

26. Ever had a clearance?

There is a reason that some information is not public.

Every government in the world conducts some business in secrecy.

What ever you feel about me is your business, however the fact is that the NSA is not the problem. The administration is the problem.

I have a real problem with the way the military has been misused and now, apparently, the NSA. I DO NOT believe we should disband either.

The NSA and the rest of the tla agencies are independent of washington executives. They change out every two terms, the agencies are long term.

The congress is their over sight, oversight commissions are responsible for the agencies.

[KAZ]

29. On this we agree.

Thanks for the dialog.

[Solon]

30. That's not necessarily true of the CIA however...

Until the Church Commission hearings, the CIA acted somewhat independently, and since then probably even moreso. For one, they most likely still run drugs to fund their operations, along with gun running and other shady business deals. Congress technically still doesn't control their entire budget.

[Pavulon]

32. As an EE guy

I found the NSA interesting. Had professors who did design work for cutting companies.

The math and computer aspect of what they do is tremendously interesting to me.

I don't know much about the cia.

[Solon]

34. All I can say is that I knew someone who was in the OSS...

the predecessor of the CIA, and they operated in it till the end of WWII. Can't tell you more than that, but let's just say it peaked my interest in CIA history.

[TankLV]

38. There is NO oversight with the REPUKES in power.

They are NO LONGER INDEPENDENT - the repukes have seen to replace large portions with their REPUKE cronies.

Or don't you read the papers or listen to the news!

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

41. Bush Crime Cabal...

... is what you mean. Including life time appointees/hires to government bureauracracy by Poppy, Casey, Cheney and their ilk. No wonder the US blinked on 9-11.

[TheCentepedeShoes]

2. Wonder how bad the Gestapo

would have been with current technology? Gee, now we know.

[Pavulon]

4. Yeah

get back to me when the NSA organizes the death of millions of jews and 20 million people.

Get a grip. The NSA put its infrastructure in place over decades. It supersedes presidents.

It has done this since the 30's.

[zreosumgame]

8. starting with a few hundred thousand in Iraq?

but then again, if allowed to keep on doing it, you be gotten 'back to' long after you have been tossed in jail for daring to post on this board.

[Pavulon]

13. The NSA

is responsible for the war in Iraq? How about the NGIA. I am sure the images they are charged with producing can be misused..

Yeah when I get tossed in jail for posting here, I will be worried. However I am more worried about being attacked by strippers and held captive while they have there way with me..

[KAZ]

12. "Since the 1930's?"

"Getting a grip" might be nice for some. Getting a clue, seems relevant for others. Truman started it in the early 50's.

[Pavulon]

14. The same people got renamed

Before that they were intercepting western union traffic.

Read bramford.

[KAZ]

18. Read Bramford? That sounds familiar.

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:spCLvDeXQsAJ:www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/%3Fentry%3D20495_USA_Today_Leaks_More_NSA_Secrets+bramford+nsa&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=8

[Pavulon]

20. The books are 10 years old

I read them when I was an EE student at State. He is the most accepted source on the NSA.

What is the purpose of your link?

[KAZ]

21. Not much. #29 sounded familiar to me.

How about you?

"The NSA has been doing this since the 30's. Big surprise. Its their job. They intercept and organize data.

The NSA is a military run institution and spies on our enemies foreign an domestic.

These whiny shitstains want a church commission so they can put us back where we were in the 70's.

They want to blind us.

Your have no right to privacy. The constitution guarantees none.

This falls under the war powers act and is legal.

The left is exposing national security information, although it may be in the public arena already, for political reasons.

Read Bramford and get back to us when you have a proper perspective. "

[Pavulon]

22. A Freeper who reads bamford...

And draws serious errors.


The church commission was directed at the CIA. Not NSA. CIA had become a extra branch of government.
The Constitution is built on common law which supports a right to privacy. This is supported in many civil cases.

The war powers act does not apply to the NSA, it would apply to the executive branch.

freepers or whatever read wikipedia too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency

Draw whatever conclusion you like. However this shows why a keyword search can not find a threat.

I don't beat my wife either...

[KAZ]

24. I believe the NSA director reports to the director...

... of national intelligence. How is that not Executive? And who brought wikpedia into the discussion? Just said it sounded familiar.

[Pavulon]

27. NSA, like the military

operates by money given out by CONGRESS. Congress funds the war and the nsa. Intelligence oversight commissions are responsible for investigating these agencies.

They are not above the law. If someone broke the law they can be taken to court.

However the news papers are not the best venue to deal with the operational capability of the NSA.

Wikipedia lists Bamford as a source for information on the NSA.

[Solon]

25. Another egregious error of that freeper's post is the idea...

that the NSA can operate domestically. This is only true with the granting of either a subpeona or a warrant issued by a FISA court, and ONLY if foriegn nationals are involved. That is the reason why we need to be concerned about all this, the NSA overstepped its bounds by trolling through DOMESTIC call lists without bothering to specify even having a target in mind.

[Pavulon]

31. The NSA

can operate against agents of the enemy. That could be an american operating for the chinese government.

echelon was a domestic program.

[Solon]

33. Didn't I just specify that?

But they need a warrant or a subpeona to wiretap a US citizen, through FISA courts. That would be the proper way of doing it, if an emergency, then they have 48 hours after the wiretap is ordered to get the warrant, there is no excuse for what they did here, you would think the NSA would know better.

[Pavulon]

35. nsa

will argue the pattern matching is not a tap.

They should be using fisa unless there was a compelling reason not to.

By compelling I mean life and death.

Or they could be trying to overturn fisa.

Who knows. It is troubling.

[TankLV]

39. No longer operates that way since RAYGUN & Bush I.

Only in order of magnitude does it not FULLY compare.

In all other aspects, it does.

[IndianaGreen]

5. Jihad, uranium, plutonium, fusion, fission, critical mass

I plan to put those words in every e-mail I send out in the hope that if enough people do it, it will bring the NSA spying to a screeching halt.

[Pavulon]

7. If it was 1990 and this was fax traffic

maybe. However, like google, search mechanisms have become capable of weighing metrics that would make that action pointless.

The systems used for eavesdropping are far more advanced than most people can conceive of.

[rustydog]

9. I have heard that NSA has things years ahead of private

consumer products.

They may already have this up and running as we type.

[Pavulon]

16. It has been up and running

for a very long time. The NSA is charged with intercepting electronic traffic.

[appleannie1]

10. I know people

that have been calling places in Iraq since the data mining made headlines. Go for it.

[Opusnone]

17. The Gestapo would be jealous

Can anyone say BLACKMAIL?
Every American has something in their closet. Period.

[sofa king]

28. Shamrock! There's the name I was looking for.

I'd forgotten the name of Shamrock, "probably the largest government interception program affecting Americans ever undertaken," according to Frank Church. God Bless Bella Abzug and her headgear.

The spook quoted above suggests that the revelations will move on to other subjects, and I agree. Specifically, I think there will be revelations about cell phone tracking, both by cell tower and by GPS.

But I have yet to see anyone speculate on what must be among the federal government's most coveted data: credit card purchases and purchases tracked by those bullshit "membership cards" that you have to get to pay mere retail price for grocery store food and other small goods.

I guarantee you they want those records, and I think it's pretty likely that they got it. Woe to you if you've ever purchased bleach and ammonia at the same time.

The problem with collecting this sort of information is that as soon as you do, someone comes along with a compelling reason to use it against your own citizens. For example, as soon as Robert Kennedy learned about the predecessor to Operation Shamrock, he sent NSA a list of racketeers to monitor, which, according to Polmar and Allen, "undoubtedly contributed to Kennedy's success in prosecuting major crime figures." If those guys were willing to do that then, just try to imagine what these people--unscupulous, unsupervised, and criminal to a degree never seen in modern times--are doing right now.

One thing I'm curious about is what's going to happen when it becomes known that cell phone tracking is and has been recorded and used by both law enforcement and the domestic spies. I have a feeling that a whole lot of people in jail right now will suddenly realize that the federal government possesses information which might exonerate them, had defense attorneys known to ask for it. Soon, perhaps, they will. Won't that be fun.

[dethl]

36. Grats NSA... enjoy breaking SSH encryption...

You just guaranteed that I will rent out a server on foreign soil to do most of my transactions on the internet. Thank god for SSH tunneling.

[Pavulon]

37. I would bet

my life that can break openSSH (blowfish, pgp, rsa models, etc)in less time than it takes to boil water. Not just the single packet but the entire stream.

Along with the rest of the commercial encryption models, that is their job.

Now why they would target me or you and what they would do with information is the real issue. They have no interest in us. It takes people to analyze the data for value. What here is of value in the context of national security?

[0007]

40. No doubt about it!