European Nations May Give Iran a Reactor

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"Key European nations are considering offering Iran a light-water nuclear reactor as part of incentives meant to persuade Tehran to give up its uranium enrichment program, a senior diplomat said Tuesday.

But a U.S. official said Washington would likely oppose the plan.

A senior diplomat familiar with international attempts to dissuade Iran from enrichment said the tentative plans still were being discussed among France, Britain and Germany as part of a possible package to be presented Friday to senior representatives of the five permanent U.N. Security Council members. The diplomat spoke on condition of anonymity because he was divulging confidential information.

In Britain, officials confirmed the offer was among options to be discussed at the London talks but said suggestions that it had been decided on as part of the incentives were premature.

"Clearly we are working out the details and that will be a matter for the talks in London," a British Foreign Office spokesman said on condition of anonymity, in line with government policy."


more

[Sal316]

1. Smart move.

There's nothing that says Iran can't have nuclear power. In fact, their position is bolstered by being a member of the NPT.

I think a deal similar to the one Clinton/Carter worked out with NK (before * fucked it up) is probably the best option. I have no doubt that the BFEE will oppose it because it'll stall their march for global domination.

[Julius Civitatus]

4. If the BFEE can't make a buck off of it, they'll oppose it

CA$H seems to be the bottom line of every decisio nmade by the Bushes.

[One Honest Guy]

2. Give? At a premium price no doubt.

Europeans never give anything away, if two thousand years of history is of any consequence. Haven't Iranians already invested nearly $2 billion into their Bushehr power plant? If I were Iranians I would ask for a dozen reactors, at least, and some cash down as well. Seeing how Iranians paid bunch of European firms lotsa money in the 1970 to build their plant, they never did, but they kept the money due to sanctions and trade restrictions. Several hundred million ought to do it. ($400 mil?)

Milk the fuckers, and then build your own damn plants anyways.

[CentralEuropeanDude]

6. 1981 - Ayatollah Khomeyni declared Bushehr "anti-Islamic"

Bushehr was a german project until Khomeyni stopped it.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/bushehr-intro.htm

...
The Bushehr I reactor (below) was 85 percent complete and the Bushehr II reactor was partially complete prior to the 1979 Iranian Revolution, and was due to be completed in 1981 as pressure testing of the containment for the first unit had been completed. After the Shah's fall construction of both reactors were halted. Ayatollah Khomeyni declared this project "anti-Islamic", and the government of Mehdi Bazargan soon abandoned it.
...

What does that have to do with two thousand years of history?

[One Honest Guy]

7. Aside from the fact...

...that both fas.org and globalsecurity.org are cyberspace extensions of various right wing think tanks, that information is flawed. Kraftwerk-Union (a German corp) pocketed nearly three billion dollars (US) and withdrew in 1979 under intense international pressure, leaving the plant and reactors unfinished. Years before the alleged fatwa.

What does that have to do with two thousand years of history?

You're kidding' right?

[CentralEuropeanDude]

8. Link please

[One Honest Guy]

9. Here ya go.

cached from wiki:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:tcmPqHJp39cJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%27s_nuclear_program+wikipedia+iran+program&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2

Updated for a link to a faster host.

[CentralEuropeanDude]

10. "The neutrality of this article is disputed." ??

Thanks, I will check it out.

[One Honest Guy]

11. There are 39 independent references in that entry.

Including IAEA and US State Department.

I updated the post above, the link is to a cached google entry which is much faster.

Lotsa info.

[CentralEuropeanDude]

12. That's a lot, for sure.

1. Siemens built the reactor.
2. the Aytollah didn't like it.
3. the Iraq bombed it.

Help me, I can't find a source for the claim that Siemens/Germany ripped off Iran.

[One Honest Guy]

13. Its all there.

" Germany was paid for in full, billions of dollars for the two nuclear facilities in Bushehr, but after three decades, Germany has also refused to export any equipment or refund the money"

also:

"Kraftwerk Union, the joint venture of Siemens AG and AEG Telefunken who had signed a contract with Iran in 1975, fully withdrew from the Bushehr nuclear project in July 1979"

And they were not the only ones:

"The U.S. was also paid to deliver new fuel and upgrade its power in accordance with a contract signed before the revolution. The U.S. delivered neither the fuel nor returned the billions of dollars payment it had received."

and:

"The company had received $2.5 billion of the total contract. Their cancellation came after certainty that the Iranian government would unilaterally terminate the contract themselves, following the revolution, which paralyzed Iran's economy and led to a crisis in Iran's relations with the West. The French company Framatome, a subsidiary of Areva, also withdrew itself."

French did give some of the money back later on.

You can read, right? I mean, being European and all.

[CentralEuropeanDude]

14. Iran didn't pay

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushehr

...
Bushehr is twelve kilometres from the site of a nuclear power plant being built in cooperation with Russia. The work was begun by the Bonn firm Kraftwerk-Union A.G., a unit of Siemens AG, which contracted to build two nuclear reactors based on a contract worth $4 to $6 billion, signed in 1975.
Work stopped in January 1979, and Kraftwerk-Union fully withdrew from the project in July 1979, with one reactor 50% complete, and the other reactor 85% complete. They said they based their action on Iran's non-payment of $450 million in overdue payments. The company had received $2.5 billion of the total contract. Their cancellation came following the 1979 Iranian Revolution, and the realization that the Iranian government would uniltaterally terminate the contract themselves.
...

I can read and I like to read facts. And yes, I am european - Do you have a problem with that?

[One Honest Guy]

15. I believe according to the time line

Payments were stopped after the work was discontinued, not the other way around.

From your quote: "Their cancellation came following the 1979 Iranian Revolution, and the realization that the Iranian government would uniltaterally terminate the contract themselves."

In other words, they withdrew first.

You are European, for reals? Okay. What is your opinion on various Demo-Christian (or Christian Democrat) neo-fascist movements and parties popping up all over Europe in the aftermath of the fall of Soviet Union?

I mean, I know they are led by incompetent, barely literate, pseudo-politicians, much like the people who vote for em, but what is your take on them?

[CentralEuropeanDude]

16. $450 million in overdue payments...

My take on fascists? I don't find the link but i believe in the claim that 20% or so of the people in every society are latent fascists (see Milgram, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment). So, they never really were away (see Operation Gladio, http://www.copi.com/articles/guyatt/gladio.html). I think that especially in germany most of the hardcore fascist groups (like the NPD) are honey traps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey_trap) of the domestic secret service (Verfassungsschutz, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verfassungsschutz). See http://www.wsws.org/de/2002/okt2002/npd-o12.shtml (in German, sorry) the title says "one in seven NPD-official works for the domestic secret service".

I don't see much sense in mixing fascist and "Christian Democrat" at this point. I think if you want to "know your enemies", you must be very exact. Or you lose every discussion with them and you won't change their mind.

May be you can ask something more specific. Sorry for my english.

[One Honest Guy]

17. Overdue payments

For an unfinished project? Overdue by who's definition? Iranian or German? Fact is, Germans pulled out first. I bet they thought this would be only temporary and Shah would be back from exile by end of 1979. Reality told them otherwise.

Mixing fascist and Christian Democrat? Nothing wrong with it. I mean, they don't hide that they are fascist. I do know that they are harmless. Pawns in a much bigger game than their little undeveloped minds can imagine. Demo-Christians in Germany, Christian-National Unionists in Poland, Radicals in Serbia, ultra-nationalists in France, etc. They don't hide that they are fascists or rabid ultra-nationalists.

Like I said, thankfully, they are led by incompetent and barely literate pseudo-politicians, qualities that are also reflected in the people that vote them in. Barring a complete economic breakdown of Europe, they can only fantasize about their fascist utopia, and/or utopias.

[Doctor_J]

3. Washington vs. the world. Again.

this blows. I am starting to know how honest, gentile Germans felt in 1935

[VegasWolf]

5. You would think that bush, a cheerleader in college, could win over

more people. Give me a "N", "U", "C", "L", "E", "A", "R", "W", "A", "R"!!!!

[David__77]

18. Iran should reject this offer.

It is their sovereign right to develop indigenous technology. One round of colonialism is enough for the third world.