(Gen.) Franks: Soldiers' deaths cost of security (doesn't matter how many)

[IChing]

By COLIN FLY
Associated Press Writer



MILWAUKEE (AP) -- Those who count the increasing number of American soldiers killed in Iraq are missing the bigger picture, retired Gen. Tommy Franks said Saturday night.

"What we're talking about is neither 2,400, 24,000 or 240,000 lives," Franks said at the National Rifle Association's annual banquet. "Terrorism is a thing that threatens our way of life. It doesn't have anything to do with politics."

More than 2,400 soldiers have died since the beginning of the invasion of Iraq, the plan for which Franks developed and executed. He also oversaw combat in Afghanistan after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

"I watched as America changed," Franks said. "That's not near done. We have to secure ourselves. We have to secure our Constitution."

During his 30-minute speech, Franks took an occasional jab at the media and fellow generals for attacking Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.

"We haven't got any generals here. They're all in front of TV cameras complaining about Don Rumsfeld," Franks deadpanned. "Difference is, I know what I'm talking about.>>>>>>snip....... http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FRANKS_IRAQ?SITE=FLSTU&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT


................................THIS MADE ME ILL.....................WAR CRIMINAL.....HELL OF A JOB GENERAL...

[niyad]

1. 240,000--what the HELL are these bastards planning now???

[Erika]

2. The NRA is a gung ho outdated organization

who thinks armed citizens can control black helicopters. The NRA is a joke.

[llmart]

33. Amen.....

the NRA is a has-been organization of old white men who have lost their strength because they are old and they have to prove their macho with their guns. They're a pitiful bunch.

[benEzra]

40. And how many NRA members do you know personally?

The strength of the NRA is in its Gen-X and Gen-Y members, not the old guy who owns a hunting rifle that he shoots twice a year.

FWIW, the president of the NRA is a Jewish woman (Sandra Froman), not an old guy...

I'm a thirtysomething, college-educated, guitar-playing, poetry-reading physics geek with glasses and a goatee, married to a gun owner from Cambridge, Massachusetts who grew up in Maine, has a B.A. in English, and studies medieval history for fun. We have two kids (7 and 5), one of whom is a special-needs kid.

How is it that stereotypes are acceptable as long as it's about people you don't like?

[llmart]

46. More than likely more than you.........

and you are a fool if you believe that the average NRA member is a Gen X or Gen Y person, or if you believe that having a woman as the head of the NRA is indicative of the vast numbers of women who belong to the NRA. She is what is termed a "token" - chosen to try to prove how diverse the organization is. And don't quote me the membership statistics that the NRA dishes out - I don't believe them.

[Seattleman]

47. Why doesn't the Second Amendment matter?

I don't get it, we are supposed to be the defenders of the Bill of Rights. We don't like it when the R's attempt to erode the other parts of the BOR, but so many of us seem actually antagonistic towards the Second Amendment. Why?

Even if it wasn't an issue about freedom, if you will remember back in 1994, the ONE reason most often given by the voters in Tom Foley's district (the first Speaker of the House to be defeated in an election since the Civil War) for throwing him out of office was his support of gun control legislation, why then are we unwilling and unable to realize that the majority of INDEPENDENTS do NOT support further erosions of the Second Amendment. We NEED Independent votes to win elections. Don't ignore the power of their swing votes.

[EST]

3. And this makes a very clear picture of the reasons

why military men are not supposed to be in charge of policy.

[libodem]

4. Why not private contractors?

Who cares how many mercenaries buy it.

[Seattleman]

48. The reason is that wars are conducted in our name.

The wars that are being conducted in our name bring responsibility to us as citizens. There NEEDS to be a price that is paid so that we pay attention and continue to hold elected officials accountable for their actions and decisions.

[TomInTib]

5. The Cost of Freedom

Find the cost of freedom

Buried in the ground

Mother Earth will swallow you

Lay your body down

S Stills

[IChing]

6. I for one, am not missing the bigger picture

The picture I see, is you going to the Hague for being the military architect and commander for this War of Aggression.

You are a War Criminal, for you held the position of being in charge
when human beings were tortured by American soldiers at
Abu Ghraib



An unknown detainee with women's underwear on his head,
strapped to a bed frame. Photo taken at approximately 1:53 a.m. on Oct. 20, 2003.

[magellan]

7. Note that it doesn't matter how many die or what liberties are lost

...Winning the war on terror is the supreme goal of the Bush** regime. Try not to notice that on its very face Franks' viewpoint is self-defeating, not to mention wholly incompatible with long-standing American principles.

It doesn't matter if it's 2400 or 240,000 who die? Why not just say it doesn't matter if all Americans die? What is the point of Franks' statement, aside from his obvious agreement with Bush** that winning the WOT supercedes all other considerations?

Sacrificing our troops and our Constitutional rights to combat terrorism is no different than capitulating to terrorists -- which is exactly what they wanted. They've won that much. Our way of life has been fundamentally changed for the worse because of the choices Bush** made in response to 9-11. And those who voted for him are responsibile for our shared defeat.

[BikeWriter]

8. Franks is a yes man! Zinni and Shinseki called for more troops!

They were refused, ridiculed, and retired! Franks went in with too few boots on the ground to secure borders and arms caches. He is as responsible as * and dumsfeld for the debacle in Iraq.

[Disturbed]

9. Franks is a Fascist Asshole.

He ignored the Insurgency in his rush to Baghdad for his great victory. He is responsible for the deaths of thousands yet he got a fuggin' medal.

[BikeWriter]

12. Dumsfeld's "go to" man. May he go to hell.

[leesa]

17. What insurgency?? We are fighting the people of Iraq.

[Thickasabrick]

37. Franks is most famous for "“We don’t do body counts”.

He is a diabolical monster. I'm surprised anyone quotes him anymore.

[tetedur]

10. Our Constitution General Franks?

"We have to secure ourselves. We have to secure our Constitution."

Isn't he the guy who said if another attack happens our Constitution is gone? Does he think that what the Bush administration is doing to our Constitution is upholding it?

[davekriss]

31. He meant...

...secure that paper thing under gas somewhere in DC, ya know, the thing -- property -- not the ideas, which are just too fuzzy for a man of action like General F*ckface.

[Dudley_DUright]

11. Sure Tommy

As a general, I am sure you were first in line to give your life for Don Rumsfeld. :eyes:

[TheCowsCameHome]

14. Maybe not his life, but he sold his soul to the devil.......

[TheCowsCameHome]

13. Did he have his picture taken waving a gun with Charlton Heston, too?

[POAS]

15. Cost/benefit analysis with human life.........sick n/t

[Rose Siding]

16. The RESPONSE to terrorism is the threat to our way of life

Is he willing to lose 240,000 lives? :wow:

[CornField]

18. Unjustified war... unjustified deaths... unjustified general

It's sad really. He's still so caught up in his own lies that he can't see the truth of what he and others like him have done.

[gratuitous]

19. More deaths = More security

Does this bloodthirsty fucker even listen to the shit that spews out of his mouth?

[Doctor_J]

20. So this occupation really IS permanent

:puke:

[MisterP]

21. "The great blessing is that thought doesn't last long."

too easy!

[Canuckistanian]

22. He's the new Gen. Westmoreland

There's always one in every war. And they tend to get promoted.

They're the ass-kissers.

[slor]

23. "Difference is, I know what I'm talking about..."

Oh yeah sure tommyboy, you did a heckuva job too. Iraq is going so friggin' well. What a asswipe.

[davekriss]

32. Don't forget Tora Bora

The man is just dripping in incompetence. But, given the unprincipled and unpatriotic reasons Bush got his war on, this is the best patsy they could find.

[karynnj]

39. Not only Tora Bora itself, but lying about it during the 2004 campaign

He knew the truth, but called Kerry a liar when he told the truth.

[ananda]

24. What!? It doesn't matter..

.. how many????

One is more than enough for this crazy, stupid, incompetent, illegal war.

[Contrary1]

25. "...It doesn't have anything to do with politics."

Thank you Patriot Franks for clearing that up. Silly me... for some time now, I thought it had much
to do with Bush's plan for world domination. That, along with the billions he and his cohorts are
banking at the expense of the American taxpayers.

I stand corrected. You may now remove me from the list of the "unsettled". :patriot:

[pecwae]

26. Sure it doesn't matter to him

How many general officers lead their troops in battle? He's got nothing to lose and it seems his feeling is that anyone he outranks is entirely expendable. What a way to build troop morale!

[niallmac]

27. Maybe I WILL shop at Wall Mart.

By so supporting China to become the new super power they would be able to successfully
push a World Court hearing of these bastards. An event that will never happen as long as
America continues to poison the U.N. and commit international crimes.

The crime for me of the 2400 plus dead Americans from this war is that so many were
from our disadvantaged ranks. The military lured them with the promise of education and
a door to better things. Then they used them to fight for our corporations who's kids
will never see a grain of M.E. sand unless they wish to.

I can't bring myself to shop at Wall Mart on second thought. I'm too much of a union man.

[teryang]

28. Zbigniew Brzezinski on the same subject

Franks equates the war on Iraq with the "war on terrorism." It is the same big lie that supported the diastrous criminal invasion he organized and led. Zbig regards such a view as "narrow and extremist."

http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2003/10/brzezinski-...

snip: "This phrase in a way is part of what might be considered to be the central defining focus that our policy-makers embrace in determining the American position in the world and is summed up by the words "war on terrorism." War on terrorism defines the central preoccupation of the United States in the world today, and it does reflect in my view a rather narrow and extremist vision of foreign policy of the world's first superpower, of a great democracy, with genuinely idealistic traditions.

snip:" That failure was contributed to and was compensated for by extremist demagogy which emphasizes the worst case scenarios which stimulates fear, which induces a very simple dichotomic view of world reality. "

snip:" what is the definition of success? More killing, more repression, more effective counter-insurgency, the introduction of newer devices of technological type to crush the resistance or whatever one wishes to call it -- the terrorism?"

[young_at_heart]

29. Please tell me he will not get away with this........UNBELIEVABLE!!

He need to elaborate what he means by "We have to secure ourselves". Is he telling us that the Bushies know how to do it?

[davekriss]

30. Um, one thing,General Sir...

...IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9-11!!! Even Powell and Rice, in 2001 (before they read the attack-Iraq memo), said that Iraq was wholly contained and did not represent a threat to the United States or it's friends in the region.

So, General F*ckface, just how does the 2,400 dead in Iraq have anything to do with "terrorism is a thing that threatens our way of life"?

O, wait, I see: The United States Government has become the biggest terrorist threat in the world, unleashing terror through aggressive, illegal "pre-emptive" wars, imprisoning people in violation of the Geneva Conventions, torturing people in places like Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib and Bagram, a President who dictates laws as he wants them to be through signing statements and has an Attorney General divine the tea leaves in written law to sieze powers he is not meant to have -- I understand what you must of meant, this thing the USG is doing does indeed threaten our way of life. Is that what you meant, General F*ckface?

"I watched as America changed," Franks said. "That's not near done. We have to secure ourselves. We have to secure our Constitution."

"That's not near done" -- O, great, there's more to come?

[sutz12]

34. Look at what he really said

The 240,000 number is the approximate number of US dead in WWII. He's making that lame and untruthful comparison again.

[Blue_Tires]

35. what a piece of shit n/t

[genie_weenie]

36. Soldiers are and always have been meat

for the grinder.

You go in Patriotic Young Charles



You come out Ground Chuck.

And let's not kid ourselves, Bush is not doing anything new. He's just reading the Exec Summary of Wilson and Mckinley's pResidency's.

[IndianaGreen]

38. I just watched HBO's Baghdad E.R.

and the lives lost and forever changed by this useless crazy war, with over 17,000 wounded and nearly 2,500 dead. When will it end?

[Seabiscuit]

41. OK, Tommie, gear up and go the front line in Baghdad without any

body armor. See how you like it. Then squawk about 240K deaths.

[CHICKEN CAPITOL USA]

44. and take the Bush Twins with you !!!

Wha?
I didn't think so--
oh-- that's right--terrorism fight'n isn't for everyone is it?

at least it's not for CHICKENS at the CAPITOL or their families.

And let see a General cruise around Iraq without body guards -maybe protecting a Halliburton supply shipment-
-actually placing himself in harm's way --

and after that- then tell us about it.--
How the hell can somebody get to be a General and end up saying such stupid things ?
--hasn't learned much on his way up has he !

Is this really who we want in charge of so many lives?
Fire his ass Now!

[Roland99]

42. What terrorism in Iraq was ever there before the invasion? Where was the

threat that the US faced? Where was the impending doom and gloom coming from?


Fuckers.

[xxqqqzme]

43. We have to secure ourselves????

And we 'secure' ourselves by invading & occupying other countries???

Hey deaf, dumb & blind kid - America IS changing! THAT'S what we are all afraid of!

[madmark]

45. i would agree that if we are in a war for our national survival that

the cost ultimately doesn't matter (WWII for example); its whatever it takes. But by the same token you do not piss away lives and resources needlessly, and merely representing that elective adventures (Iraq) are vital to national survival is not sufficient to preclude their costs/benefits from being at issue. Nor does invoking the tactic of terrorism require everyone to experience a labotomy and no longer apply cost/benefit analysis to our actions, or rational strategy in general. Asymetric warfare by a religious NGO is a bitch to fight; but not a license to act stupid. Gen. Franks, with the resources of the US you may be able to remove a autocratic third world head of state (SH) from power, but you assisted and gave aid and comfort to Al Quada in the proces. So keep your tactical hat on, that's what you're good at and that was the job you were ordered to do. But lay off the policy and strategy speeches; you're a fucking idiot when it comes to that. Oh and you are a piece of shit when it comes to occupying third world countries (of course you are forgiven for that; we should never be in the business of doing occupations).

[DrDan]

49. I wonder if he encouraged his daughter to enlist and

head to the front lines of Iraq

and what of his 3 grandchildren? is he willing to sacrifice them?

come on, General - let's encourage your family to don the uniform as well

somehow I feel his story will change quite quicklhy

[saigon68]

52. Like Cheney they are privileged

They have other things to do

Like make $$$$$

[Evergreen Emerald]

50. The invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with our security.

I CAN'T TAKE THE LIES ANYMORE. And the people who clap for him? What the hell is wrong with them?

[PaDem]

51. Terrorism doesn't have anything to do with politics??

I beg to differ.

[Supersedeas]

53. 'Merica has changed...and not near done -- sounds more & more like Goebles