Venezuela to Invest $700 Mln to Build `Steel City,' Chavez Says

[Judi Lynn]

Venezuela to Invest $700 Mln to Build `Steel City,' Chavez Says

May 21 (Bloomberg) -- Venezuela plans to invest $700 million this year to build four state-run companies in a ``Steel City'' development in the country's southeast, President Hugo Chavez said.

The government plans to build four steel processing plants and several housing tracts in Bolivar state, about 710 kilometers (440 miles) southeast from Caracas, Chavez said during his weekly television show. The government also plans to build bauxite, cement, paper and cotton processing factories, he said.
(snip)

Venezuelan oil exports rose to a record $14 billion in the first quarter, fueling a surge in government spending. A special spending fund controlled by Chavez has received $13 billion of central bank reserves and oil revenue since its creation in October and will receive $5 billion more the rest of this year, Chavez said.
(snip/...)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000086&sid=a830.2qVxgRM&refer=latin_america

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AllieB]

2. Just waiting for the peanut gallery to show up

:popcorn: :popcorn:

[William769]

3. Wonder if it will look like Moscow?

[orwell]

4. Or Pittsburg? n/t

[Judi Lynn]

6. Maybe Bellingrath Gardens, in Mobile, Alabama!

[SlavesandBulldozers]

30. hA! lol. n/t

[zann725]

12. Gosh, I hope not. As a child, having to breath-in Pgh. air, & squint thru

industry-polluted "low visibility" MILES from the actual mills, and learn to self-preservationally as a child to breath shallowly in order to safetly survive. (That IS when the mills in Pgh. were STILL operating full-steam.) That of course all changed during the out-sourcing Reagan era. (I think but one or two mills in suburbs barely operates now...if at all.

Regarding the steel-town pollution, my brothers and I used to joke (once we'd grown up and moved away), that we never saw a clear blue sky UNTIL we left Pgh.

Though I sincerely wish these foreigners their jobs, just NOT the pollution, or sub-standard health and safety standards many of my relatives worked in Pgh's steel boom-time (EVEN as Union workers). In the mill my father worked for nearly 40 years, (one of the TWO worst in the country), there was NO heat in the Northeast winters, and NO air-conditioning in the long, hot humid summers. In the summer, I remember him being daily "issued" SALT-coated gummy candy (which I guess was to help prevent heat exhaustion). The extent of medical care on the job (in case of injury), was pouring on of something 'harsh' called "mill medicine"...which we as kids also used to clean our own wounds. My dad regularly told of having his much-needed lunch eaten many times earlier in the day WITHIN his locker by Rats. Yet he endured the hard work, and demeaning difficulties with dignity...though I know it humiliated him greatly. I still remember him rushing nightly from the gates when the shift was over, with what was jokingly (degradingly) referred to as "Mill-hunk luggage" swinging from one arm. The" luggage" of course was nothing but an old battered paper bag containing his dirty mill clothes from the day.

He's dead many years now, but the measly 30 year gold-plated fake pin he got as commemoration for ALL that suffering and degradation (plus the inhalation of the highly polluted mill fumes) which later contributed to Lung Cancer he died of...leaving my mother WITHOUT even his full pension (due to a REWRITTEN U.S. Steel contract in the 80's courtesy of Reagan-era). As I recall, for all his years of suffering and devotion, she received a measly $80/mo. U.S. Steel pension, at most.

But hey, it IS great these foreigners are equally 'lucky' to receive such an Industry in their countries, with no doubt lower,NON-Labor wages and rights than did my father while he worked in Pgh mills. Did I mention that my Dad had skipped two grades in high-school due to high I.Q., took 4 years of Latin, was the head of his debate team in High School...which taught me to quickly question ALL angles of things. But when you're born into a mill town (have no money for college), there is a a working "family" tradition/expectation...that DESPITE your dreams...often 'locks' you into mill work out of loyalty... 'til you life has all too quickly passed.

The same 'loyalty', sort of, that makes so many blue-collar, working class mid-Americans mindlessly, LOYALLY vote Republican against their own best interest. Mostlt out of loyalty. Like good guard dogs, they are trained to serve their "Masters" loyally at all costs.

[Judi Lynn]

13. You've seen exactly how "fluid" and "open" the society is.

Articles have been written recently on the myth of upward mobility, indicating most Americans tend to stay EXACTLY where they were at birth, and that minorities almost always are completely boxed in.

Your father had the respect of those who knew him, at least. He had REAL value. It would be very hard trying to respect a man whose entire universe revolves around the worship of exploitation, and "power."

[Dr.Phool]

16. OSHA, Clean Air, And Clean Water Acts forced them to straighten out.

I started on a Railroad in a mill in Cleveland in 1971. Jobs were unsafe, rivers were catching on fire. A red cloud over the city could be seen 50 miles away.

After they converted open hearth furnaces into basic oxygen furnaces, installed precipitators and other pollution control devices, and closed the coke plants, a lot of pollution disappeared. Not good, high quality air, but a vast improvement from back then.

[bleedingheart]

17. speciality steel mills are still operating in Pittsburgh

and the skies are blue today....

and they are building $400K housing on top of the old slag heap by the Squirrel Hill tunnel...now tell me that wouldn't suprise men like my dad who worked at the Duquesne Steel Works...which was torn down and is now an industrial park....

[saigon68]

31. I saw the same thing in paper mills

They drafted us into a war-- while the rich kids like the CHIMPANZEE Dodged the Draft.

My friends now lie in graves, having died for nothing more than corporate profits.

[OnionPatch]

34. I grew up in that smog myself

Well, actually we were a little bit west, which was upwind from the mills and we thanked God for that regularly. But I worked in a steel mill for several years and hated having to go into that horrid smog every day. You're right about all the disease the workers suffer. Seemed to me like everyone I knew who retired didn't live long to enjoy his retirement. Emphysema was a common cause of early death. :( So sorry about your dad.

Hopefully Venezuela will have some good pollution control systems in place.

Oh, by the way, your post brought back some memories: I remember having to replace my brown bags with a metal lunchbox so I could be the one to eat my lunch instead of the rats. Yuck!

[JVS]

29. you forgot the "h" at the end

[AllieB]

5. Fancy Meeting You Here!

:hi:

[ConcernedCanuk]

7. Gee - look what ya can do when you don't spend all your money on WARS !!!!

.
.
.

It SHOULD become obvious to the USA electorate that the Administration's priority is on WAR,

not taking care of it's own taxpayers

But then again

They voted the Boy-King back in

so I guess I'm wrong . . .

[sweetheart]

21. what truth is there

There is no truth during war, per churchill's maxim,
and bush's belief in the bust.
It lets him hard for his the broad on paxil,
while they chant, "in god we trust."

What truth exists when a criminal decieves as the chief objective of the state,
to decieve and wage war on the planet's poor.

I'm really impressed at chavez, he gets very
clearly the need to construct his own country's centers of excellence
and retain them as a strategic economic basis, to defend his economy
against free trade asset strippers... good work chavez!!! :applause:

[Zorra]

8. Wow. Encouraging domestic manufacturing, giving folks jobs,

strengthening your country's infrastructure, and increasing national economic independence.

Why can't the US elect a leader with this much practical sense and concern for the people?

Instead, we have Bu*h, who sold our infrastructure to foreign interests, sent our jobs overseas, drove us into massive debt, and gives windfall profits to the wealthy while impoverishing working folks.

Chavez would make Bu*h look like the biggest chump loser in recent history if Bu*h hadn't already done that for himself.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Igel]

10. Good, good.

Perhaps they can translate Gladkov's "Cement" and Leonov's "Sot'" (aka "Russian River") into Spanish, if they haven't been.

Sure to be best sellers.

Chavez isn't fascist; that implies a dictator that colludes with capitalists and controls them and their production in order to implement a state-sponsored ideology. Chavez wants to have the state run the enterprises. That's something completely different from being a fascist.

[One Honest Guy]

11. I think nearly 200 years of Monroe Doctrine is enough.

As I said in another thread.

Wouldn't you agree?

Slums of Rio de Janeiro (Brazil)


Slums of Ciudad Juárez, Mexico, just across the border from El Paso, TX


Children in Sao Paulo (Brazil) playing in sewage.


You were almost there, you almost said it.

You have a pretty high post count so you shouldn't be afraid of retribution.

I'll help you. Say it with me: Chavez is a god-damn, red-flag-waving, anti-god-Jesus-hater, communist! :sarcasm:

Say communist, don't be afraid. We are all friends here. Nothing wrong with the word. :sarcasm:

Now tell us how your really feel.

Tell us how privatization and control of native/natural resources by foreign governments/corporations helped Venezuela in the last 200 years.

[Bacchus39]

14. you can take a tour there too and see it for yourself

not sure how the US is responsible for this though.

[Igel]

15. He is a statist.

He wants to build heavy industry, run heavy industry, and police heavy industry, all for a state goal. As with all such schemes, what you get is precisely what you got before. No one group can be both owner, builder, beneficiary, and policer.

The same things were said of the Soviets, and those in Eastern Europe after the war; of China, and of other countries. It was not ok to criticize them; the believers were outraged at criticism. Those involved in building heavy industry were, after all, working for the people's revolution. The works I cited derive from precisely that time period. One deals with the construction of a cement factory; the other, of a pulp mill. They were written to make zeal for industrialization and large industrial projects (on behalf of the people) widespread. They had the proper kind of hero.

In every (real) case, what you got is a lot of construction and happy workers, until attention and the press move on; then what you have is a corrupt bureaucracy that can't efficiently run businesses, can't make them self-sustaining without severe environmental destruction, and extensive glorification of the state, ostensibly an ideology but one that was nearly inseparable from a person, in the name of glorifying the workers.

"Time, Forward!" (Kataev, IIRC), the heroic and rousing tale of construction of a steel plant, should also be in the reading list. "Sot'" is nearly unreadable; "Cement" is a tough go; but I found "Time, Forward!" to be quite entertaining. (With Dudintsev as a reasonable corrective.)

On edit: Yes, the Monroe Doctrine's more than a bit out of date, but what it was a corrective to was certainly no better; how it evolved in application is a different story, and bears little defense. But somehow I don't think my opinion about Chavez has any bearing to the Monroe Doctrine, and Chavez's election wasn't the result of European manipulation of politics to serve their ends.

[Solon]

40. Statist? Isn't that a Libertarian word?

Hold on, I have to pull out my Ayn Rand bible, oh yes, its right there, seems to be used to describe anyone who isn't a "free marketeer" Libertarian.

OK, now that that is out of the way, how about some facts, first, this is an expansion of the ALREADY nationalized steel industry, not an invention of it. The industry, just like oil, was already nationalized BEFORE Chavez took office. Now, Venezuela ALREADY suffered from everything you have described, from the corruption to the destruction of the enviroment. Most likely this is an attempt to rectify past wrongs, possibly a new model based on Anarcho-Syndicalist principles, which Chavez is an adherent of, similar to Chomsky. OK, unlike other Socialistic policies, this one actually OPPOSES central state control of the economy, instead having the central government invest in local and regional co-ops that are run by the people that work and are customers of said service.

They usually allow for MAJOR industries to be nationalized, such as Oil and Gas, along with possibly steel, however, this does not mean the federal government has DIRECT control over the industry. Unlike in, for example, Communist countries, like the former Soviet Union, where the Party had direct control of everything from agriculture to car production. Chavez's government, on the other hand, handed out land grants to local farmers, and gave out government grants, with no strings attached, to said farmers to form market co-ops. This is but one example, there are others, look them up before spouting out ignorance.

[1932]

42. Your first paragraph is nowhere near the truth.

Read Gott's book on Chavez (the edition published in 2004 or 2005). The chapter that ends at about page 132 contains some information you might want to absorb. Solon, below, has summed it up pretty accurately, by the way.

[NoodleyAppendage]

18. Need steel to start building their own military hardware...

Chavez is no idiot. He knows the US is spoiling for a fight and now he's working to build the infrastructure necessary for conventional warfare self-defense.

J

[One Honest Guy]

19. Indeed.

Steel industry is the backbone of every healthy defense industry.

[sarcasmo]

20. A kick for Hugo. Just as in other latest news. Our Decider is worried

about Deomcracy in Venezuala.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2299934&mesg_id=2299934

[expatriot]

22. I hope there are some environmental considerations in this project.

I'm all for the perogative to develop the nation's economy and industrial soveriegnty but I hope that there is some environmental common sense employed here.

[Rex]

23. Looking to industrialize no matter what the costs.

I personally think it is a great idea. Do it now before you lose the ability to modernize heavy industry. Of course it will just expedite the destruction of the ecosystem and our eventual extinction, but hey...to late now! Smoke em if you got em!

[1932]

26. I think Ven. has had a huge steel industry for over 40 years.

I believe that it operates on hydro-electric power.

Read Gott's book on chavez -- around page 132, IIRC.

[Rex]

35. 40 years is outdated; probably wants to update to using aluminum

as a base. I should have said modernize heavy industry.

[1932]

41. ?

On what are you basing these opinions?

[1932]

24. Why don't you all read books?

I've been pushing Gott's book on Chavez, and there's a chapter all about this issue.

Get this: The steel industry in Venezuela has been nationalized for years, and Chavez's coalition of parties believes that that's a BAD thing, since the result of concentrating so much power in a state aparatus has been corruption and inefficiency. The other problem with it has been that building up a huge industry that transforms raw materials in a country which had no industries that convert the primary product (steel) into added-value products means that financing to operate that mega-scale first-stage company had to come from abroad, which meant that a lot of control and wealth was being shipped overseas to the financiers.

So, the goal of Chavez's government has been to build up those secondary value-added industries.

The REAL story behind the story in this article isn't that Venezuela is spending 700M on the nationalized steel industry -- it's a huge industry and that would be a drop in the bucket. The real story is that they're spending money to build up the secondary value-added businesses which are going to eventually help the Venezuelan economy operate more efficiently and keep more wealth at home. And the long-term goals are to turn the public-private partnerships over to the private sector (albeit, they will be worker-owned corporations). And another goal: to make rural areas places where there are good jobs, schools, hospitals -- to make them places where people can live dignified lives.

[1932]

25. Why don't you all read books?

I've been pushing Gott's book on Chavez, and there's a chapter all about this issue.

Get this: The steel industry in Venezuela has been nationalized for years, and Chavez's coalition of parties believes that that's a BAD thing, since the result of concentrating so much power in a state aparatus has been corruption and inefficiency. The other problem with it has been that building up a huge industry that transforms raw materials in a country which had no industries that convert the primary product (steel) into added-value products means that financing to operate that mega-scale first-stage company had to come from abroad, which meant that a lot of control and wealth was being shipped overseas to the financiers.

So, the goal of Chavez's government has been to build up those secondary value-added industries.

The REAL story behind the story in this article isn't that Venezuela is spending 700M on the nationalized steel industry -- it's a huge industry and that would be a drop in the bucket. The real story is that they're spending money to build up the secondary value-added businesses which are going to eventually help the Venezuelan economy operate more efficiently and keep more wealth at home. And the long-term goals are to turn the public-private partnerships over to the private sector (albeit, they will be worker-owned corporations). And another goal: to make rural areas places where there are good jobs, schools, hospitals -- to make them places where people can live dignified lives.

[genieroze]

27. to make them places where people can live dignified lives?

Those evil bastards. :sarcasm:

[On the Road]

33. Thank You -- This is New to Me

It actually doesn't surprise me a bit, although it's completely at odds with the way Chavez is being depicted.

[Endangered Specie]

28. I certainly hope this doesnt turn into some kind of "five year plan"

Ill be curious to learn of what kind of quality and environmental standards will be used.

[Judi Lynn]

32. For DU'ers interested in Venezuelan culture, an article on Vene. hip-hop

FEATURE-Venezuela 'revolution' gets a hip-hop beat
Tue 23 May 2006 8:00 AM ET
By Greg Brosnan

CARACAS, Venezuela, May 23 (Reuters) - Among the shabby high-rise tenements overlooking Venezuela's capital, hip-hop beats rather than the usual gunfire kept the Caracas neighborhood of Pinto Salinas awake one night recently.

Bass notes echoed from a small stage as teen-agers in baggy sports clothes and fat sneakers, many of them black youths descended from African slaves, listened avidly to an instructor before themselves rapping in Spanish over a thundering sound system.

In a twist in Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's self-styled socialist revolution, his government, which has long pumped proceeds from oil sales into health and education for the poor, is paying for rap-crazy youths to prime their rhymes as an escape route from drugs and violence in some of Caracas' toughest neighborhoods.

"We're used to seeing corpses, used to seeing people kill each other every day in shootouts," said Alfred Garcia, a 20-year-old rapper from Pinto Salinas who helped organize the workshop on hip-hop culture.
(snip/...)

http://today.reuters.com/News/CrisesArticle.aspx?storyId=N18457085

[Evil Bush]

36. I just need to post/.....

[stepnw1f]

37. He is Giving the People Jobs

Good for him.... fuck you freepers!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

38. Yeah sure, but they're the evil-commie type jobs. I swear it seems this

guy can't do anything right according to some.

[stepnw1f]

39. To Some

fascist bastards standing on a hill of shit. They have been standing on that hill of shit for so long, they forgot how tall they really were.

The ones here are idiots doing the "Man's" job for him.