Blast in Mumbai's suburban train

[varun]

http://ia.rediff.com/news/2006/jul/11train.htm?q=tp&file=.htm

A bomb blast rocked the first class compartment of a suburban train in Mumbai's Khar station on Tuesday evening as the peak hour commuter traffic made its way home.

The Western Railway emergency service confirmed the blast, and said further details were awaited.

[varun]

1. Times of India says 3 blasts

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1729980.cms

MUMBAI: On a day when Srinagar saw six blasts in the morning, Mumbai was shaken by three explosions in quick succession on Tuesday evening.

The target was clearly the evening rush on the city's local trains. The first blast occured in a first-class compartment of a local train near Khar station. The train was going from Churchgate to Borivili.

The second blast took place soon after at Mira road station, while the third occured at Matunga station.

Reports said the Khar blast blew the train compartment to pieces. But there were no early reports of casualties, but several people were reported to have been injured.

[meegbear]

2. CNN.com is saying a fourth blast has been reported

[Recursion]

3. And now it's 6

:cry:

[Julius Civitatus]

102. Echoes of the Madrid and London bombings

This is horrible. Truly nightmarish.

:scared:

[varun]

21. If the terrorist link to Pakistan is confirmed...

...watch the India - Pakistan border for some fireworks...

[Ghost Dog]

55. That is not at all necessary.

There are far more Moslem Indians than there are Pakistani Moslems. India is the country with the greatest population of Moslems in the world, second only to Indonesia.

And... we all are at least half-aware of many reasons why many young Moslems may have become extremely radicalised over recent years... Did someone say: "Bring 'em on?"

[CJCRANE]

60. That and the fact

that radical muslims are useful idiots whose plots often backfire by giving the govts they attack more power (eg. Bush with 9/11 and Blair with 7/7) and making life much more difficult for their own people.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CJCRANE]

98. I see it more in terms

of LIHOP and MIHOP rather than false flag. It's quite easy for intelligence services to turn a blind eye on certain radical groups and let them carry out their attacks when politically convenient (I don't know much about 3/11 but this seems to be the case from the publically available evidence about 9/11 and 7/7). It's also possible that these groups get direct help and encouragement from govt security services (the FBI agent who infiltrated the Miami 7 as an al-Qaeda member shows the basic MO of how this can can be done). However the MIHOP situation is harder to prove since the evidence for it is not generally discussed in the mainstream.

[respublicus]

116. LIHOP illogical; Spectacular terror beyond means of amateur terrorists

Letting it happen on purpose means the terrorist organization is infiltrated, which means it is effectively an asset of the agency that does that. It means they could wind it up and shut it down, but instead they maintain it. So now it isn't Lihop, it's MIHOP.
LIHOP, the theory of passive state complicity, is like an unstable state in chemistry. The state agency has to go one way or the other. If the state is terrorist, it will keep the asset going. If the state is anti-terrorist, it will shut it down.
Also in logic LIHOP is unstable, because it posits two competing causes for the same recurring phenomenon.
Sociologically LIHOP is also a contradiction in terms. What kind of state would let these things happen? Only a terrorist one. And a terrorist one has all the advantages by directing the events itself.

The idea that only state-sponsored terrorists are capable of spectacular terrorism is a dictum of Webster Tarpley in 911 Synthetic Terror.
See www.waronfreedom.org/bombay.html for some reasons why amateur terrorists wouldn't be the ones to suspect for this spectacular exploit in Mumbai.

[muriel_volestrangler]

75. No; Pakistan has slightly more Muslims

Pakistan: 165 million, Muslim 97% = 160 million Muslims
India: 1,095 million, Muslim 13.4% = 147 million

and Bangladesh is quite close - 147 million total population, 83% Muslim.

[Ghost Dog]

79. Interesting, thanks. I'll look again at the data.

... And Bangladesh is of course Bangladesh.

... Anyway, very large region with very large (largely Sunni) Moslem population.

Not to be trifled with.

[Che_Nuevara]

4. it's seven now, according to Associated Press

http://breakingnews.nypost.com/dynamic/stories/I/INDIA_TRAIN_EXPLOSION?SITE=NYNYP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-07-11-09-55-42

[Moderator]

5. k

[bigworld]

6. AP: Series of explosions hit Mumbai trains

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/11/D8IPQIE80.html

An explosion struck a packed commuter train in a Bombay suburb during the Tuesday evening rush hour, and police said there were casualties. Indian media reported that two more explosions struck Bombay train stations.

A senior police official said the first blast hit the train at a station in the northwestern suburb of Khar, and that authorities were still trying to determine how many people had been injured and if anyone had died.

[ECH1969]

7. At least 40 killed in Mumbai train blasts, India TV reports

Update

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

[ECH1969]

8. BTTT

[CountAllVotes]

47. kick & recommend!

:kick:

[allemand]

9. At least 104 people dead in Mumbai train blasts (CNN)

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/ShTickers.html

[NoSunWithoutShadow]

10. I hate to say this, but

It' 7/11 and Mumbai is a city of 16 million and "the cosmopolitan main nerve of a booming Indian economy."

:-(

[slackmaster]

11. I'm betting on Sikh separatists being the perpetrators

When do we invade Canada?

[INDIA]

12. I'm betting on Muslim extremists.

I'll take that bet, $20. You in? (Easiest 20 I'll ever make)

A question...

This is a huge terrorist attack, at least 100 people killed. Why such a deafening silence on the boards? A Psychedelic Mushroom article has 5 times as many posts. Do DU'ers feel that acknowledging the existence of terror somehow helps Bushco? It seems like we are ignoring a pretty significant event.

[slackmaster]

13. Silence on this board stems from difficulty blaming this on George W. Bush

That's the fact.

I'll pass on that $20 bet BTW, but I still think we should invade Canada.

[INDIA]

15. Darnit!

i just heard Indian authorities arrested members of a Islamic terror cell too. I guess I'll just have to earn that $20. BTW, I'm sure someone will find a way to blame this on Bushco, probably through Musharraf.

When are Muslims going to stand up and take back their religion? This shit isn't just going on in Iraq.

[muriel_volestrangler]

31. Were those arrests in Mumbai? Or Srinagar?

Or elsewhere?

[goodhue]

93. New Delhi

The New Delhi police in New Delhi's Jungpura area arrested a person who is said to be associated with these bomb blasts; two kilograms of RDX were reportedly found with him.

http://www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?aid=308478&sid=NAT

[benburch]

40. Now that's unfair.

I think we all want to see whomever did this found out and brought to justice.

At least I know I do.

[treestar]

45. Right. Combined with a little leeriness of how Bushco will use

this to justify more war and destruction of civil liberties.

[benburch]

46. Right!

I know they will use it in some way, but I do not imagine they "did" it. And I really want the motherfuckers who did do this to get caught.

And I think everybody here does.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lynne]

91. I logged on to DU to find out more about these bombings -

- and was floored at the silence on this board. There are more threads about Lieberman than I can count and these bombings are being truly ignored in comparison.

I do believe your analysis is right on target.

[INDIA]

103. Thanks!

I suspect many agree but few venture to admit.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[allemand]

16. Most probably, after all there were 5 blasts in Srinagar earlier today.

I'm just wondering if the Mumbai attack has an international dimension (al-Qaeda), or if it was done by a local group. Of course, in the case of Lashkar-e-Toiba it's hard to tell the difference.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

17. I was busy watching the Senate

That's the problem with watching Cspan, you miss the breaking news.



and oh yea, Bush did it. :evilgrin:

[daleo]

18. I think most people just don't have the necessary frame of reference

Is it Muslim terror against Hindus (likely, given the demographics, but I certainly can't say for sure). Is is connected to the Sikh independence movement? Maybe some offshoot of the Sri Lankan civil war? Or something we haven't heard of in the west?

Then there are the religious ambiguities. Should westerners "root for" Hindus over Muslims, if that's what is going on? Or should their sympathies be with Muslims, who are of the Abrahamic tradition? Our governments and propagandists haven't given us a script for this situation, yet. Be patient.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[varun]

28. It is almost certainly related to Islamic terrorists...

...probably LeT (Lashkar-e-Tayba) a Pakistan based terrorist group that is linked to several terrorist attacks all over the world.

[Spinoza]

30. How about out sympathies NOT

being with the people, or cause behind the people, that performed this horrible deed?

[Pale Blue Dot]

34. Ummm... because the mushroom thread had a 9 hour head start?

Nice straw man.

[benburch]

41. A totally unfair assertion. nt

[Ghost Dog]

58. Cheney/BushCo's been provoking/promoting this.

At some point, it becomes self-fulfilling. Ie. FOR REAL.

Mission accomplished.

Now, you must accept total, highly politically-disciplined, militarised control of everything in your lives.

You know it makes sense.

Security Rules.

[respublicus]

97. Typical False Flag Op, Plenty Benefits for Bush

For one thing Bush regime wants a nuclear deal with India.
He has to keep India in the axis during the war on Islam.. er .. war on Terror.
The recent false flag ops in Europe by Bush allies Blair and Aznar were also train bombings, 3/11 and 7/7, as of course was the Bologna bombing in 1980, false flag of Red Brigades, later shown to be Gladio (NATO covert strategy of tension terror)

[allemand]

19. Indian police: Death toll in Mumbai train blasts rises to 135 (Reuters)

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/ShTickers.html

[goodhue]

20. very sad

Any link to map to location of train(s) during bomb blasts?

[goodhue]

23. Map of metro system

[varun]

26. stations where blasts took place...

[allemand]

27. Western Line (red): blasts at Matunga Rd, Khar Rd, Santacruz, Jogeshwari,

Borivali, Mira Rd and Bhayandar.

[goodhue]

32. Yikes

Thanks for the list.

[Igel]

42. The next obvious question:

What are the demographics of the neighborhoods around the stops on that line?

In other words, why that one line?

[goodhue]

48. relatively upscale; very, very busy

The Western line goes from famous downtown Christchurch train station past affluent Chowpatti Beach area and proceeds north through south Mumbai towards relatively upscale suburbs Bandra and Juhu.

[Igel]

71. Thanks.

They're more likely to be people that make decisions for the area, instead of those that sweep floors.

[goodhue]

73. World Record Passenger Traffic Density

"The Western Railway line between Churchgate terminus and Dahanu Road carries about 2.6 million passengers per day, almost 43 percent of the total Mumbai suburban rail traffic. The annual passenger traffic density for the Western Line exceeds 145 million passenger-km per km of route per year. In other words, more than 145 million passengers travel, on average, over each km of line per year. The busiest segment, 60 km between Churchgate terminus and Virar, carries almost 900 million passengers per year. The annual traffic density, about 255 million passenger-km per km of route, is believed to be the world record for passenger rail transport."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_suburban_railway#World_Record_Passenger_Traffic_Density

[coffeenap]

22. live video link from Reuters

http://today.reuters.com/tv/liveVideoPopup.aspx?src=071106_1120_FEATURES_india_train_blast

[varun]

24. these trains are packed during rush hour

[coffeenap]

29. I am so sorry for everyone who has suffered. nt

[goodhue]

33. Eyewitness: 'Horrible scenes here'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5170226.stm

Medical student Sunny Jain describes the chaos in the city's King Edward Hospital as the injured from one of the train blasts poured in for treatment.

"The scenes are really horrible here. The floors are filled with bloodstains. Many people came into the hospital with injuries. There were so many that I couldn't really count. It's mostly burns injuries. But I saw one man who was really badly injured and bleeding. He had to have his arm amputated. There are not enough ambulances and many people are making their own way to the station. They are coming in by taxi and by foot. We do not have the infrastructure that the Western world has. But we need medicines and more vehicles to bring the injured in.

People in shock

Most of the injured are coming in from Matunga station as we are the hospital closest to that station. Since I'm a medical student I do the basic non-specific works. A lot of people have come in for simple first aid. The dead have to be left at the scene. Those victims won't be coming into the hospital now. The focus is on helping the injured. The situation has been complicated by the fact that it is raining very hard. There is real anger amongst the people I have treated and confusion about what exactly happened. Many people are in shock. They are very concerned about the situation and don't know what will happen next, don't know how to get home now. It's very busy and I have to go back and help now with the injuries. Local trains are the lifeline of Mumbai. The city has been hit very hard."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5170226.stm

[thecrow]

35. Death Toll in India Train Bombings at 131

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060711/D8IPT4OG0.html

Jul 11, 12:30 PM (ET)

By RAMOLA TALWAR BADAM

(AP) People stand inside a train that was destroyed in a bomb explosion in Bombay, India, Tuesday, July...
Full Image



BOMBAY, India (AP) - Seven bombs hit Bombay's commuter rail network during rush hour Tuesday evening, killing 131 people and wounding more than 300 in what authorities called a well-coordinated terrorist attack. There was no immediate claim of responsibility in the bombings, which came in quick succession - a common tactic employed by Kashmiri militants.

India's major cities were put on high alert after the blasts. Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh called an emergency Cabinet meeting and said that "terrorists" were behind the attacks.

Chaos engulfed the crowded rail network in India's financial capital following the blasts that ripped apart train compartments as authorities struggled to treat the wounded amid heavy monsoon downpours. Doors and windows were blown off the train cars, and witnesses said body parts were strewn near stations.

Luggage and debris were spattered with blood. Survivors clutched bandages to their heads and faces, and some frantically dialed their cell phones.

<snip>

[jdlh8894]

36. What is with these people?

People placidly coming home from work get blown up? WHY? What is strange - 9/11 - USA 3/11-Spain 7/11- India WTF????

[Tabnoom]

77. Why? Very simple......

For terror. That's what they do. Not government establishments or political figures. Just ordinary people like you and me. Terror doesn't work well any other way.

It's the quickest way to get your target audience to submit.

[benburch]

37. Any word as to who might have done this hideous thing?

I hope it was not our "friend" Pakistan!

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[benburch]

39. Somehow I doubt that.

No doubt they fostered the climate for it, though.

[slackmaster]

43. There you have it

Thanks benburch.

:D

[INDIA]

44. Wow

You called it!

[benburch]

49. You got nothing.

As I said, I believe that they are not responsible for this.

However, the chaos they have caused in the world makes it easier for terrorists everywhere, and I don't think even you can doubt that.

[rayofreason]

63. Bingo!

When I read your first post I thought "It won't take long"

Someone else asked "should we root for Hindus?" My answer is "Yes, since it is not the Hindus who are waging Jihad worldwide."

You know modern Hindus are a bit embarassed by Tantric statuary carved into 8th century temples (it is amazing and must be seen to be appreciated), they are actually pretty tolerant of that stuff and have not tried to blow up temples just because they are sexually explicit. In fact, modern Hindu civilization is pretty tolerant on many things (though just like the rest of us there are plenty of warts as well). Compare that to the Taliban who blew up the Bamiyan Buddist statues (I was in India when it happened). I view the Islamist movement as the least tolerant force on the world stage. So when I compare current Islamic civilization to current Hindu civilization, I know whose side I will be on in a conflict.

[manic expression]

80. You're right

Hindus are extremely tolerant. If you talk to many Hindus, the concept of lines between religions doesn't even exist, they'll go to a church just as soon as they'll go to a mandir. By the way, I don't think Hindus are generally "embarassed" by those carvings, because you can see in modern statues and Hindu art that sensuality is very important and emphasized.

One thing, however, is that it's not "Muslim vs. Hindu" as much as it is "Insane Islamic Lunatics vs. Everyone Else (and Hindus happen to be a big part of that group)".

[liberalpragmatist]

82. I don't really approve of this kind of thinking

I am Hindu, but this kind of "taking sides" against Islamic culture is one of the biggest problems India faces. EXCEEDINGLY few Muslims in India are terrorists, the Kashmiri separatists largely have legitimate grievances, and while Hinduism has a very tolerant tradition, there is unfortunately a lot of anti-Muslim sentiment and Hindu chauvinism. This kind of "us-vs-them" mentality (which was encouraged by the British) literally ripped the country apart in 1947 and has poisoned the political atmosphere of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh for the last half-century.

Frankly, the BJP (India's major right-wing party) and their fundamentalist Hindu allies have not only perverted Hinduism, they essentially preach a fascist ideology that seeks to purify Indian culture and which extols some glorious past. India wouldn't be India without its long Islamic heritage. Most of the cities of the North were built by the Mughals, who, while hardly saints compared to modern-day, were very tolerant for their time. Try to imagine India without the Taj Mahal or Delhi without the Qutub Minar or Red Fort.

The terrorists who struck today were hardly the allies of Muslims or the enemies of Hindus alone. They are the enemy of ALL Indians regardless of religion.

[rayofreason]

84. I am not a BJP fan...

...and too many people forget that India has the 3rd largest Muslim population of any country on Earth. Actually, my experience is that on the whole Muslim and Hindu communitites within India coexist reasonably well. The problem is the Salafi/Islamist movement. Hindu civilization is not laying claim to Islamic lands, whereas there are far too many in Islamic lands who lay claim to India. Islam, in the eyes of the Islamists, is God 3.0, Christianity is God 2.0, Judaism is God 1.0, and Hinduism is God 0.0 (no people of the book here). Until Islam as a civilization can find the same tolerance for Hinduism that Hinduism can find for Islam, in case of conflict I know what side I prefer.

[liberalpragmatist]

92. True enough

The Salafist movement is a scourge worldwide; what I dislike is when people try to indict all of Islam or all of Islamic Civilization. Islamic civilization is so diverse that it's impossible to tar with a broad brush. And by and large the Mughals treated Hindus as "people of the book" and allied with major Hindu castes and princes. Certainly many of the current-day Salafists hate Hindus, and that's especially (and unfortunately) true in Pakistan, where Islamist propoganda has been really extensive. But that being said, India generally enjoys good relations with the rest of the Muslim world and even Bin Laden and most Al Qaeda types are more interested in being anti-US than in being anti-India. Not that that redeems them in any way - I'm simply pointing out that Salafist anger at India is more local for the most part. And it also isn't as though Right-wing Hindus have been particularly nice to Muslims. Need you forget pogroms, intimidations, and violence directed at Muslims that flares up from time to time? The Hindu fascists are no better than the Salafists.

[fujiyama]

109. "The Hindu fascists are no better than the salafists"

I agree to some extent. The Hindu fascists are lunatics and the BJP is like the GOP on steroids (the GOP hasn't been very successful in inciting pograms - yet).

But I would have to say that at this point, the terror attacks can't be viewed merely in terms of Kashmiri politics, and many of the groups responsible for these attacks have links to Al Qaeda (Lakshar and Jaish are very closely affliated and many terrorists were being funneled from Afghanistan to Kashmir by the ISI). Also it's worth recalling that in earlier tapes, bin Laden mentioned Kashmir along with Chechnya and Palestine.

For the most part, Muslims, Hindus, and others, coexist rather peacefully. And few Indian Muslims have been radicalized as in other places. After all, they even have a Muslim president (is Kalam still president?). But unfortunately I think there have been efforts by many outside influences to stir up violence and trouble. I also think the politicians in India have exploited religious tensions for electoral purposes.

[liberalpragmatist]

113. Oh of course these can't be viewed merely through Kashmir

This is clearly a more Al Qaeda-style operation. About Bin Laden I'm merely referring to the fact that according to most profiles, the primary motivator for him is the presence of US troops and Americans in Saudi Arabia. And for many Bin Laden-types, conflicts like Kashmir, Palestine, and Chechnya are merely points of reference in a much larger and fanatical - apocalyptic - struggle with the West and other non-Muslim powers.

That said, we should wait-and-see. I would be very surprised if it wasn't Jaish-e-Muhammad or Lashkar-e-Toiba, but it's possible it could be Maoists; the pattern of the bombings is interesting after all - targetting first-class compartments exclusively.

[goodhue]

50. Climate of communal tension in India was fostered in part on Dec 6, 1992

When the Kar Sevaks destroyed Babri mosque in Ayodhya. And of course dates back to 1947 partition, and resulting conflicts.

[benburch]

51. Correct.

But the botched war on terror has resulted in increased availability of explosives and weapons, and motivated many to become terrorists who would never have done so prior.

[B2G]

54. You know

I have a really hard time buying that. Terrorism has been around for a long, long time. I don't see a proliferation of more weapons. Anyone can construct an extremely lethal bomb...just look at Oklahoma.

I guess I feel this way mostly because I didn't blame Clinton everytime something went "boom" somewhere around the globe. And many things did go "boom".

[closeupready]

53. Yes.

And Bombay has not been a stranger to sectarian rioting. In fact, there was a Bollywood film named "Bombay" dramatizing one of the riots from recent years.

[goodhue]

56. The film is Mani Ratnam's Bombay

from 1995

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112553/

[closeupready]

57. Right, was just looking at that.

That's it. :)

[Ghost Dog]

61. EXACTLY. thanks. n/t.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

94. are you series!!!!!!1

or a troll? I am curious.

[Ghost Dog]

52. Latest, at this time?

BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5169332.stm

Local reports said the bombs appeared to have targeted first-class compartments, as commuters were returning home from the city's financial district.

<snip>

A medical student at a hospital in Parel, which has received many of the wounded, told the BBC News website the "floors are filled with bloodstains".

"There were so many , I couldn't really count," Sunny Jain said.

"There are not enough ambulances and many people are making their own way to the station. They are coming in taxis and by foot."

There was no immediate claim of responsibility for the attacks, which are the worst in the city for more than a decade.

<snip>

Home Minister Shivraj Patil told reporters authorities had "some" information an attack was coming, "but place and time was not known".

<snip>

Correspondents say Tuesday's bombers could hardly have struck a target with greater impact - both practical and psychological.

The city's suburban train system is one of the busiest in the world, carrying more than six million commuters a day.

Times of India: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1733318.cms

Terror Tuesday: LeT, SIMI hand in Mumbai serial blasts

Terror attack on Mumbai trains was carried out by Lashkar-e Toiba and Students Islamic Movement of India activists to trigger communal conflagration, intelligence sources said.
< 11 Jul, 2006 2329hrs IST>
Over 140 killed in Mumbai serial blasts: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1733321.cms

The Hindu: http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/

140 dead, 257 injured as series of blasts rock Mumbai trains
Mumbai, July 11 (PTI): At least 140 people were killed and 257 injured in a string of seven terror blasts that tore through first class compartments of suburban trains around 6 p.m during the evening peak hour traffic here today.As the blasts ripped ...

[benburch]

59. Hideous. nt

[Ghost Dog]

64. Hideous. But, be careful:

This is shocking, as reported. It could also be interpreted as a 'First Class' horror (receiving international mainstream media attention, shaking financial markets).

On the other hand, the poor, the disposessed, all over the world, as we know but do little about, suffer and drop dead like flies, mostly painfully gradually, sometimes equally suddenly, by their thousands every day. But this is little-reported, taken-for-granted, just a fact of (contemporary) life. In fact, the rich, we, the rich, make huge profits out of this fact.

Uh huh? :think:

[benburch]

65. Oh, I know all that.

I don't want to see ANYBODY blown up or starved to death by brutal dictators and occupying powers.

[K8-EEE]

66. As A Subway Rider Here In Los Angeles....

I am always thinking, the only reason nobody blows up one of my stations is because nobody wants to. There is NO security at all, and of course, anybody can come right over either border if they wanted to. So the "fighting them there" thing again makes no sense...why didn't the terr'rists obediently report to Iraq, since GWB has announced that's where they are supposed to "be fought" at.

Idiots all around, and an increasingly scary (and smaller) world all the time. I hope (like the Spanish) they find the perps, something that our country is not too interested in doing apparently.

Another thing that is so lame, is GWB constantly crows about no "9/11s" since 9/11, well there hasn't been a 3/11 in Spain again either, so does that mean THEY have defeated terr'rists while telling GWB to pound sand? Nothing makes any fucking sense. So sad and frustrating.

[Ghost Dog]

68. The Spanish took theirs', generally, with great dignity.

Although in pain. (Except the ten per cent or so more extreme right-wingers, who tried to pour more kerosene or whatever on the flames).

The Madrid train bombings affected mostly poor working-class and immigrant people.

(I'm a Brit been more than 20 years in Spain). No, we're very clear-sighted and hard-nosed around here. Don't buy much bullshit. Plenty Long Experience. No Fools, more Fool You. Like to enjoy quality life while we can: it's short.

[K8-EEE]

81. I've Been Thinking Seriously Of Making That Move Someday

It's funny that my grandparents came here from the Basque provinces to escape a RW extemist government -- while I am thinking of going there to escape the one here. My grandfather would love how free it is in Spain now, he would be shocked, it was a very oppressive place when he left.

I love Spain!

[goodhue]

67. Lashkar-e-Toiba, SIMI hand in serial blasts . . .

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1733318.cms

LeT, SIMI hand in Mumbai blasts
11 Jul, 2006 2329hrs ISTTIMES NEWS NETWORK

NEW DELHI: The terror attack on Mumbai trains was carried out by Lashkar-e-Toiba and local Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) activists and was designed to trigger communal conflagration in the country’s financial capital, intelligence sources said.

While still waiting for clues to emerge, top intelligence sources in New Delhi seem pretty sure the blasts on the trains were plotted by Lashkar modules which are increasingly collaborating with activists of SIMI, which boasts of strong pockets of influence across Maharashtra.

The estimate of intelligence agencies here is derived from the scale of the attack, as well as precise information about the Lashkar’s sleeper cells that have proliferated in Maharashtra.

Sources in the home ministry, in fact, said that a carnage had seemed very much on the cards with information pouring in about stockpiling of arms and explosives by religious extremists

* * *

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1733318.cms

[goodhue]

78. the terrorists' objective . . .

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1733318.cms

Officials here are convinced that the terrorists' objective was to cause communal mayhem in the city. The conviction is based on two facts.

First, the trains were targeted just after the communal-tinged violence in Bhiwandi, and the protests by Shiv Sainiks over the insult to the statue of Meenatai Thackeray by miscreants.

[Ghost Dog]

69. Mumbai subway blasts! US Stock Markets Rise!

Read more here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2381725

[Telly Savalas]

111. The sun also rose too. Is there a connection?

[Tight_rope]

70. Bombs tear through Indian trains; 147 dead (400+ wounded)

Bombs tear through Indian trains; 147 dead

AP - 14 minutes ago

BOMBAY, India - Eight bombs hit Bombay's commuter rail network during rush hour Tuesday evening, killing at least 147 people and wounding more than 400 in what authorities called a well-coordinated terrorist attack. There was no immediate claim of responsibility in the bombings, which came in quick succession -- a common tactic employed by Kashmiri militants. The blasts came hours after a series of grenade attacks by Islamic extremists killed eight people in the main city of India's part of Kashmir.

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/india

[npincus]

74. shit

[Baclava]

107. You got that right

If it's one thing the world doesn't need it's India and Pakistan going at it.

[belab13]

76. My heart goes out to the injured and all the families

that were impacted by this act of violence.

Very depressing indeed...

[goodhue]

83. Minorities fear reprisals

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/c5908dee-111c-11db-9a72-0000779e2340.html

Minorities fear reprisals
By Jo Johnson and Khozem Merchant

Published: July 11 2006 21:37 | Last updated: July 11 2006 21:37

Within minutes, seven explosions on the railway that forms Mumbai’s spinal cord left at least 163 people dead and possibly more than 1,000 wounded in one of the worst terrorist attacks in India.

* * *

In a volatile sub-continent, in which attacks on one community seldom go unreciprocated, politicians urged people to remain calm. But some members of minority communities were last night anxious about reprisals.

For Elizabeth John, 37, a Pakistani living in New Delhi, it was a moment to be fearful.

“I’m very sad and scared,” she said. “Lots of people know I’m living here as a Pakistani. If they get angry they may attack me.”

* * *

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/c5908dee-111c-11db-9a72-0000779e2340.html

[varun]

100. No reprisals in the last few attacks

There were no attacks on the muslim community after the bomb blasts in Mumbai in 2003, in Delhi in 2005. There have been "revenge" attacks in the past, but I believe, they are on the wane.

[brooklynite]

85. Times of India: LeT, SIMI hand in Mumbai blasts (Islamic militants)

NEW DELHI: The terror attack on Mumbai trains was carried out by Lashkar-e-Toiba and local Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) activists and was designed to trigger communal conflagration in the country’s financial capital, intelligence sources said.

While still waiting for clues to emerge, top intelligence sources in New Delhi seem pretty sure the blasts on the trains were plotted by Lashkar modules which are increasingly collaborating with activists of SIMI, which boasts of strong pockets of influence across Maharashtra.

The estimate of intelligence agencies here is derived from the scale of the attack, as well as precise information about the Lashkar’s sleeper cells that have proliferated in Maharashtra.

Sources in the home ministry, in fact, said that a carnage had seemed very much on the cards with information pouring in about stockpiling of arms and explosives by religious extremists.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1733318.cms

While I'll give the edge to local reporting, it sounds as though this is based more on patterns of behavior rather than hard evidence.

[Igel]

86. It's also the default assumption.

The first thing to check out. Default assumptions aren't always right, to be sure, and shouldn't be defended when evidence to the contrary shows up. Remember the Madrid bombings?

[fearthem]

87. I'm worried as my son's students, who won Microsoft's Imagine Cup USA ..

competition are going to India in a couple of weeks for the world championships and he is accompanying them -- I'd rather he not go, considering recent events, not a good time to travel to India.

[physioex]

89. Your worries are valid.....

But rest assured that India is a safe place and like any another country the people are very good. There is really very little chance that one would end up killed in any terrorist attack and the best thing is to on with our lives.....

[fujiyama]

110. I understand your worry

but remember India is a huge country.

BTW, which part of India is he going to? Bangalore and Hyderabad (I think that's where Microsoft has facilities) are relatively safe.

[rodeodance]

88. AP update: Bomb attack on Bombay trains kills 147

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060711/ap_on_re_as/india_train_explosion;_ylt=AtarGARPQ7vr4_eLUHSJsrKs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--
.....Bomb attack on Bombay trains kills 147

By RAMOLA TALWAR BADAM, Associated Press Writer 7 minutes ago

BOMBAY, India - Eight bombs hit Bombay's commuter rail network during rush hour Tuesday evening, killing at least 147 people and wounding more than 400 in what authorities called a well-coordinated terrorist attack.
ADVERTISEMENT

There was no immediate claim of responsibility in the bombings, which came in quick succession — a common tactic employed by Kashmiri militants. The blasts came hours after a series of grenade attacks by Islamic extremists killed eight people in the main city of India's part of
Kashmir.

India's major cities were put on high alert. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh convened an emergency Cabinet meeting and said that "terrorists" were behind the attacks, which he called "shocking and cowardly attempts to spread a feeling of fear and terror among our citizens."

Pakistan, India's rival over the disputed territory of Kashmir, quickly condemned the bombings.

[Blue_Tires]

112. very sad

the last thing needed in this world is MORE violence!:banghead:

[goodhue]

90. see here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2381900#2382667

[Bhaisahab]

95. DO NOT trust the times of india for news

its like trusting the moonie times. the times of india just exists to reprint verbatim govt hand outs, because it believes in more ads for less news. if you want to look at local media, your best bet is the indian express - www.expressindia.com, or the left-leaning hindu - www.hinduonnet.com

among the TV networks, you can check out ndtv.com and ibnlive.com

cheers!

[Ghost Dog]

99. Well, here's some background from The Hindu:

http://www.hindu.com/2006/07/12/stories/2006071208921100.htm

A tragedy foretold

Praveen Swami

It could take months to identify the perpetrators of the Mumbai bombings, but the recent past holds some clues.

TUESDAY'S MURDEROUS terror bombing in Mumbai was a tragedy foretold. A least half-a-dozen Lashkar-e-Taiba and Harkat ul-Jihad Islami cells planning major operations in western India had been interdicted since January: one, sooner or later, was certain to penetrate India's police and intelligence defences.

Investigators have already begun work that could led them to the perpetrators of the single worst terrorist outrage since the Mumbai serial bombings of 1993. Dozens of shards of forensic evidence, hundreds of phone calls in and out of Mumbai, the testimonies of thousands of witnesses will have to be carefully studied before even preliminary suggestions about just who might have been responsible can be arrived at.

What evidence is available, though, suggests that the tactics and techniques used in the Mumbai bombings are similar to those deployed in the wave of strikes that have taken place across India since the end of 2005. Fabricated from easily-available chemicals such as potassium permanganate or aluminium chlorate, with small amounts of RDX to accelerate the detonation, the kinds of explosives that seem to have been used in Mumbai are easy to manufacture — and lethal when used in crowded locations.

If recent experience is a guide, investigators are likely to find that the real architects of the bombing are outside its reach: the Lashkar is headquartered at Muridke, near Lahore, while the HuJI operates out of bases in Dhaka and Chittagong. More likely than not, though, the operation will have been facilitated by local operatives of these terror groups — part of a subterranean but still enormously dangerous movement of small numbers of recruits into the ranks of Islamist terror groups.

Whichever terror group executed Tuesday's bombing is likely to have drawn at least some of its operatives from the large pool of former Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) members in Maharashtra — an organisation that has survived a ban imposed in 2001 by operating under a variety of cover names. Several of the 11 Lashkar-e-Taiba operatives arrested from the Aurangabad area in May, while attempting to move a shipment of explosives, assault rifles, and grenades into Gujarat, had worked for SIMI before it was proscribed.

/more...

[goodhue]

101. Who are the suspects?

Mumbai blasts: Who are the suspects?
By Gordon Corera
BBC News security correspondent

The initial investigation of the Indian authorities will focus on two areas - firstly a forensic examination of the scene of the explosions for any clues on the types of explosives and detonators used.

The second area will be a search for witnesses who may have seen the bombers, coupled with a broader intelligence effort to establish what information there might be about them.

The authorities have already hinted that they had some idea that an attack was in the offing, but did not have specific details.

That may mean they have a strong idea about the identity of the cell.

* * *

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5172586.stm

[JCMach1]

104. Hopefully this won't be pretext for ethnic cleansing and oppression

as happened with the Sikh's in the 1980's

[goodhue]

105. Rain, blood and sirens

Rain, blood and sirens
On foot and by rickshaw, from train station to hospital, a Bombay writer surveys the aftermath of the bombings.

By Dilip D'Souza

In the city of bomb attacks on sardine-packed trains, it's the morning after. The palms sway in the sea breeze, the sun is breaking through the gray clouds, and I am writing this in a car as we drive across town, remembering Tuesday night. For the first time in a while, there's no rain and I don't hear any sirens. For hours Tuesday, that's all I heard, all I felt. Rain, sirens.

Yesterday. Bandra, where I live, is considered the "first" suburb of Mumbai (formerly known as Bombay), the oldest and closest to the city. When I get to the Bandra train station just after 8 p.m. on Tuesday, not two hours after the bombing, it's unnaturally, almost eerily, quiet. Lots of people, but so quiet. Yet the eeriness itself seems entirely natural. It's that kind of day, that kind of bomb-blighted day. Platforms are swept clear of the usual throngs of rush hour, public-address speakers blare monotonous announcements about blasts, no trains, please stay calm and cooperate with the authorities.

I walk down to the southern end of the platform, dark here, and immediately find hands reaching up to me from the tracks two feet below. Long lines of men and women off the trains that have stopped south of here, walking home along the tracks through the rain, asking me to help them onto the platform. One man hauls himself up, then tells me in inimitable Bombay Hindi: "Bahut log marela!"

"Many people dead!"

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/07/12/india/index_np.html

[goodhue]

106. Death Toll at 200

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5946322,00.html

Death Toll in India Train Bombings at 200

Wednesday July 12, 2006 3:01 PM

By RAMOLA TALWAR BADAM

Associated Press Writer

BOMBAY, India (AP) - The death toll from a series of bombs that struck Bombay's packed commuter trains rose Wednesday to 200, and India demanded that Pakistan dismantle the ``infrastructure of terrorism,'' but leveled no direct accusation at its rival for the attacks.

The number of dead in the eight near-simultaneous bombings during Tuesday evening's rush hour in India's financial hub has risen steadily as rescue efforts uncovered more bodies and people have succumbed to their injuries.

R. Patil, the deputy chief minister of Maharashtra state told lawmakers that 200 bodies had been found in the twisted wreckage of the trains. Bombay is the capital of Maharashtra.

Officials say more than 700 people were wounded.

[goodhue]

108. Families search for missing

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=97200b43-406b-4315-aa57-fa859784e735

Families search for missing Ramola Talwar Badam, Canadian Press

Published: Wednesday, July 12, 2006

MUMBAI, India -- The death toll from a series of bombs that struck Mumbai's commuter trains rose to 200 Wednesday as family members frantically searched for dozens of people still unaccounted for a day after the horrific attacks in India's financial capital.

* * *

Worried residents searched for missing friends and relatives. Dozens of people stood in hospitals, carrying pictures of the missing. It was unclear how many people were missing, though it appeared to be at least a few dozen.

''We have gone to four hospitals, he would have called by now,'' sobbed Shakuntala Wari who was looking for her 24-year-old son, Vikas, at the Bhabha hospital near Bandra.

Others crowded around hospital notice boards, poring over lists of the dead and wounded posted by police. Many of the dead remained unidentified by Wednesday afternoon.


* * *

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=97200b43-406b-4315-aa57-fa859784e735

[goodhue]

114. Hundreds detained over Mumbai bombings

Hundreds detained over Mumbai bombings

Staff and agencies
Thursday July 13, 2006
Guardian Unlimited

Indian detectives searching for the Mumbai train bombers who killed more than 200 commuters have detained about 350 people for questioning.
Mumbai police said those rounded up included known thugs, gangsters and trouble makers, who might have information about the bombers. Most of the detentions were made overnight in Malwani, a north-eastern suburb of India's business capital, a police spokesman said.

He added that none of them has been formally arrested or charged, and they were brought in only for questioning to help with the investigations into Tuesday's serial bombings.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/india/story/0,,1819410,00.html

[goodhue]

115. Suspects in India bombings

Posted on Fri, Jul. 14, 2006

Suspects in India bombings

SUSPICION FOCUSES ON KASHMIR GROUP; SECURITY ASSAILED
By Henry Chu
Los Angeles Times

MUMBAI, India - Under intense pressure to show progress, authorities identified their first suspects Thursday and detained about 20 people for questioning in connection with this week's deadly railway bombings.

Indian media broadcast photos of two men believed to be linked to Tuesday's string of rush-hour blasts along this city's crowded western commuter line, an attack that killed as many as 200 people and wounded hundreds more.

However, there were conflicting reports as to the suspects' names, and authorities provided no background on the men or details on what their roles might have been.

The development came after 48 hours of intensive investigation by police, who have interviewed hundreds of people and detained some for interrogation, a police official said.

* * *

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/15037058.htm