NYT: In Big Shift, U.S. to Follow Geneva Treaty for Detainees

[kskiska]

WASHINGTON, July 11 — In a sweeping change of policy, the Pentagon has decided that it will treat all detainees in compliance with the minimum standards spelled out in the Geneva conventions, a senior defense official said today.

The new policy comes on the heels of a Supreme Court ruling last month invalidating a system of military tribunals the Pentagon had created to try suspected terrorists, and just before Congress takes up the question of a replacement system in a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing today.

As part of its decision, the court found that a key provision of the Geneva conventions, known as Common Article 3, did apply to terror suspects, contradicting the position taken by the Bush administration.

The Pentagon memo allowing detainees the protections of Article 3 was first reported today by The Financial Times.

more…
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/11/world/11cnd-detain.html?hp&ex=1152676800&en=e36adb8e22b9523a&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[sabra]

1. MSNBC: Pentagon says all detainees entitled to Geneva Conventions protecti

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13813974/

Pentagon revises Guantanamo detainee policy
Memo says Geneva Conventions do apply, reflects Supreme Court ruling

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration said Tuesday that all detainees held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba and in all other U.S. military custody around the world are entitled to protections under the Geneva Conventions.

White House spokesman Tony Snow said the policy, outlined in a new Defense Department memo, reflects the recent 5-3 Supreme Court decision blocking military tribunals set up by President Bush.

The policy, described in a memo by Deputy Defense Secretary Gordan England, appears to reverse the administration’s earlier insistence that the detainees are not prisoners of war and thus subject to the Geneva protections.

Snow insisted that all U.S. detainees have been treated humanely. Still, he said, “We want to get it right.”

[5X]

2. This is an admission of guilt for the previous policy.

To the Hague!

[Akoto]

5. This isn't about mercy, it's about politics.

There are elections coming up, and the Republicans are in a very bad position right now.

They're scrambling to fill all of the potholes they might stumble into once the political rhetoric begins to heat up. "My opponent disregards the Geneva Conventions and humane treatment for all," doesn't do much good for opponent's campaign.

[rocktivity]

32. Translation: Pentagon HAS to say all detainees entitled to Geneva

Conventions protection. Here's hoping that they actually DO it.

:headbang:
rocknation

[MissWaverly]

35. only problem is Bush will think of a new name for them

well, ah, uh, er, they're not really detainees that is people being detained, they're ah, um, er, questionees, that is people we ah, ur, er, like to question about Osama, there's nothing in the Geneva Conventions about questionees, if there is, I'll, ah, uh, er, consult with Alberto about a better name.

[Rose Siding]

3. Admiral Hutson, ret:

“We should be embracing Common Article 3 and shouting it from the rooftops,” Admiral Hutson said. “They can’t try to write us out of this, because that means every two-bit dictator could do the same.”

He said it was “unbecoming for America to have people say, ‘We’re going to try to work our way around this because we find it to be inconvenient.’ ”

“If you don’t apply it when it’s inconvenient,” he said, “it’s not a rule of law.”

[tabasco]

19. Admiral Hutson, I salute you !

Thank you from a fellow vet !

:patriot::patriot::patriot::patriot::patriot:

[Tesha]

24. If you're ever looking for a Republican worthy of your repect...

If you're ever looking for a Republican worthy of your repect,
Hutson is your guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hutson



Tesha

[Marie26]

4. good good good

America takes a step away from the abyss.

[librechik]

6. idiots finally discover doing the right thing is easier

than maintaining a web of lies!

(I wish)

I distrust them so much I'm thinking what's the angle? More secret prisons?

[leesa]

7. Excellent. On with the war crimes trials. And I believe some inspections

of the gulags are overdue?

[grytpype]

8. But... but I thought that means the terrorists win!

Uh oh!

[area51]

9. "U.S. to Follow Geneva Treaty for Detainees"

They say they will, but the only thing I trust this psychotic administration to do is to lie.

[Judi Lynn]

10. No doubt you're right.That has been the pattern so far, w/no exceptions.nt

[cal04]

11. U.S. will give detainees Geneva rights

The Bush administration said Tuesday that all detainees held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and in U.S. military custody everywhere are entitled to protections under the Geneva Conventions

White House spokesman Tony Snow said the policy, outlined in a new Defense Department memo, reflects the recent 5-3 Supreme Court decision blocking military tribunals set up by President Bush. That decision struck down the tribunals because they did not obey international law and had not been authorized by Congress.

The policy, described in a memo by Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England, appears to reverse the administration's earlier insistence that the detainees are not prisoners of war and thus subject to the Geneva protections.

Word of the Bush administration's new stance came as the Senate Judiciary Committee opened hearings Tuesday on the politically charged issue of how detainees should be treated.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060711/ap_on_go_pr_wh/congress_guantanamo

[Nickster]

12. Flip-Flop? n/t

[hughee99]

13. I don't know if I would call it that...

since he's being forced to do it. It could be considered a "flip-flop" since even though he made this statement, he'll ignore the policy and do whatever he wants.

[Xipe Totec]

14. Now, about the waterboarding....

is that acknowledged as torture under the Geneva convention, and will we prosecute those in charge for war crimes?

[endarkenment]

15. Rights are not given, they are honored.

The rights of prisoners of war are not to be 'given' by the criminal bush cabal to anyone, they are to be respected and honored by the cabal, as they have been put on notice by the current court that their activities are in violation of law and constitution.

[cyberpj]

16. self deleted. repositioned. nt

[Spazito]

17. Here is Article 3

Article 3

In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:

1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

(b) Taking of hostages;

(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;

(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

2. The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.

An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.

The Parties to the conflict should further endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of the present Convention.

The application of the preceding provisions shall not affect the legal status of the Parties to the conflict.

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm

[OnionPatch]

18. It's appalling that it hasn't already

That the country who bases its moral authority on its defense of "freedom", "justice" and "equality" would skip these basic human-rights has sickened all good Americans. I want to cheer that this step is being taken but so much damage has been done already it's a little hard.

[intheflow]

20. Closing the barn door after the horses have been stolen.

I hope people see this for what it is. They're trying to cover their asses after the fact. Chimpeachment is still the order of the day!

K&R :kick:

[redqueen]

28. I hope so as well... a very transparent attempt to avoid punishment

for their CRIMINAL actions.

"Party of acountability" my ass!

[cyberpj]

21. "and in U.S. military custody everywhere" --- Really? Renditioned too? nt

[endarkenment]

23. I think the explicit use of the term 'military custody'

is an attempt to evade putting CIA operations under the norms of civilized behavior.

[cyberpj]

37. Yep. Whatever they say or write is subject to strict legal interpretation.

And that means their legal interpretation, of course.

[endarkenment]

22. Article 3

"In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:

(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed ' hors de combat ' by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.
To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

(b) taking of hostages;

(c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;

(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

(2) The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.

An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.
The Parties to the conflict should further endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of the present Convention.
The application of the preceding provisions shall not affect the legal status of the Parties to the conflict.

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/0/e160550475c4b133c12563cd0051aa66?OpenDocument

[gratuitous]

25. The hot breath of a war crimes tribunal

Cornered like rats, with a Supreme Court ruling invalidating their policies of the last five years, the military and this corrupt administration finally consent to do what they should have done all along.

And even under this minimal compliance and the threat of a war crimes tribunal, the arrogant motherfuckers who brought us to this pretty pass will no doubt loudly declaim their virtuous nature as they are forced to do what they should have done all along.

I'd find that behavior reprehensible for a 12-year-old. I find it worse for purported leaders of our country.

[antonialee839]

26. Big shift =Big kick in the ass from the sane

portion of the Supreme Court.

[Canuckistanian]

27. Does this mean the ICRC will be let in?

I'll believe it when I see that happen.

[FredStembottom]

29. Trust......but VERIFY this sudden attack of morality!

It is sure to be only talk!

[dave29]

30. This must be torturing Dick Cheney

pun intended

[goforit]

34. Run Dick Run, ... See Dick Run.

[lovuian]

31. Saying it and doing it is too different things

:argh:

[goforit]

33. Is this why all of a sudden the Generals are being hard on US Marines

for crimes of rape/torture/murder of innocent civilians.

[chill_wind]

36. More comments here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1608350

(dupe topic)

Maybe a mod will combine them.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

38. Stunning

It is STUNNING (although not surprising given what we know and may not know about this administration) that our elected leaders should have to make a public announcement like this stating that they will do something that they SHOULD have been doing since day 1. Instead, they decided arbitrarily and unilaterally to suspend the "rule of law" from day 1 and fighting this "war on terror" as THEY saw fit and spinning lie after lie and justification after justification about why they could do what they were doing. Now that the Supreme Court has done its job and put the WH on notice that they can't just make up new rules and toss aside old ones, the WH has FINALLY agreed (at least in principle) to change the rules. Sadly, I do not expect things to change in deed as long as the GOP remains entrenched in power in Congress and continuing to aid and abet the administration's misdeeds and seem likely to "codify" his illegal actions.

[OKNancy]

39. kick

[NastyRiffraff]

40. U.S. will give detainees Geneva rights

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration, called to account by Congress after the Supreme Court blocked military tribunals, said Tuesday all detainees at Guantanamo Bay and in U.S. military custody everywhere are entitled to protections under the Geneva Conventions.

White House spokesman Tony Snow said the policy, outlined in a new Defense Department memo, reflects the recent 5-3 Supreme Court decision blocking military tribunals set up by President Bush. That decision struck down the tribunals because they did not obey international law and had not been authorized by Congress.

Sound good? But!

"It's not really a reversal of policy," Snow asserted, calling the Supreme Court decision "complex."

Yeah, complex for Tony and Chimpy. What part of SCOTUS blocking military tribunals do they not understand?:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060711/ap_on_go_pr_wh/congress_guantanamo;_ylt=Ar7OnppIoDl0MywlIb5JDNms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

(Edited to post link)

Snow said efforts to spell out more clearly the rights of detainees does not change the president's determination to work with Congress to enable the administration to proceed with the military tribunals, or commissions. The goal is "to find a way to properly do this in a way consistent with national security," Snow said.

[Ian David]

41. Hooray for Colonel Bogey!

[warrens]

42. You know those slimeballs have a loophole built in

"From now on, please report the tearing off of fingernails as "manicures"" and so on...

They have no intention of giving them trials, because they would be laughingstocks once the court gets to hear both sides.

[Fermezlabush]

43. Sure, not a reversal. Besides, it's only on paper anyway. Reporters

are still banned from Gitmo, so it'll work fine.

[Beetwasher]

44. Bullshit! It's Just Words

They will still do whatever of the fuck they want and just TELL you they're doing differently.

I don't buy this for a second.

[ReadTomPaine]

52. Agreed - they aren't going to do a damn thing differently.

This issue, like all involving Bush's administration, will only be resolved with forceful political, legal or protest actions that compel compliance.

[rodeodance]

56. "It's not really a reversal of policy," Snow asserted,

..."It's not really a reversal of policy," Snow asserted, calling the Supreme Court decision "complex."

[ItNerd4life]

45. I'm not sure this is a good thing....

According to the Geneva Convention, if a person isn't in a military uniform they can be classified as a spy and summarily executed. Most of these people weren't in military uniforms.

I just have a bad feeling about Bush and this policy. I hope I'm wrong.

[sandnsea]

48. Common Article 3

(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

That's why many military officials have insisted the trials adhere to this article. This is the one the Bushies have been trying to get around.

[Kagemusha]

49. You're mistaken. These people were captured outside the US

If a regularly constituted court of law determines that they are spies - spying on the US on foreign soil, though why that would be a crime under US domestic law I have no idea - then perhaps yes they can be executed, after being tried and found guilty. Nothing summarily about it. These people are POW's until a court properly says otherwise - that they're spies, armed civilians, whatever.

[sandnsea]

46. Common Article 3

This was in the NY Times article and is what we have to focus on when they're doing "this in a way consistent with national security". We have to make sure everybody knows we want a courts martial style procsss that includes Common Article 3.

From the NYT:

"In response, some legislators have said they will consider rewriting the law to make that part of the Geneva Conventions, known as Common Article 3, no longer applicable.

“We should be embracing Common Article 3 and shouting it from the rooftops,” Admiral Hutson said. “They can’t try to write us out of this, because that means every two-bit dictator could do the same.”

He said it was “unbecoming for America to have people say, ‘We’re going to try to work our way around this because we find it to be inconvenient.’ ”

“If you don’t apply it when it’s inconvenient,” he said, “it’s not a rule of law.”

[rodeodance]

57. another 'inconvenient truth" !!

......“If you don’t apply it when it’s inconvenient,” he said,

[notadmblnd]

47. so what they're saying is

that they want congress to make it legal after the fact, so they can carry on as planned. And with this congress' track record, they'll give the pretzledent exactly what he wants.

[rodeodance]

58. BINGO!!

[Yavin4]

50. That's Mighty White of Them

As Dirty Harry would say.

[Ringo84]

51. Well well well

Looks like progress is being made. This is a monumental decision that should help protect human rights.
Ringo

[pinto]

53. This is a sleight of hand, bait 'n switch in many ways.

The Defense Department memo pertains to Section 3 of the Geneva Convention which stipulates humane treatment and access to medical care for detainees. The Defense Dept. has always maintained that they are following the "spirit" of the Section and are saying that the memo just makes it official. I don't believe them for a minute, but at least it's in writing now and not in "spirit".

It's the timing of the memo, though, which is the political sleight of hand.

Concurrently, the Bush Administration is lobbying Congress to make their military tribunal plans for those same detainees legal. The tribunals were at the heart of the recent SCOTUS decision.

Bushco looks to confuse the two in the public mind, and will probably pull it off.

Every headline you see says, Defense Dept. memo says Bush to follow Geneva Convention with Gitmo detainees, or something along that line.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060711/ap_on_go_pr_wh/congress_guantanamo

No, the memo says they will follow Section 3. It's not a blanket statement as implied.

And, at the same time, request Congress to make the military tribunals - which the SCOTUS said were unconstitutional without Congressional consent - legal.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aVgFs1E9ps24&refer=home

I'm convinced there's an office of legal manipulation somewhere close to the West Wing...it's right next to spin central.

[mvd]

54. I'll believe it..

when I see it.

[rodeodance]

55. The memo was first reported by the Financial Times, a British newspaper,

.......The memo was first reported by the Financial Times, a British newspaper, and was later distributed to reporters at the
Pentagon.

Word of the Bush administration's new stance came as the Senate Judiciary Committee opened hearings Tuesday on the politically charged issue of how detainees should be tried.

"We're not going to give the
Department of Defense a blank check," Republican Sen. Arlen Specter (news, bio, voting record) of Pennsylvania, the committee chairman, told the hearing.

Sen. Patrick Leahy (news, bio, voting record) of Vermont, the committee's top Democrat, said "kangaroo court procedures" must be changed and any military commissions "should not be set up as a sham. They should be consistent with a high standard of American justice, worth protecting."

[rodeodance]

59. look even Snow admits bush wants an out!

.......Snow said efforts to spell out more clearly the rights of detainees does not change the president's determination to work with Congress to enable the administration to proceed with the military tribunals, or commissions. The goal is "to find a way to properly do this in a way consistent with national security," Snow said.

Snow said that the instruction manuals used by the Department of Defense already comply with the humane-treatment provisions of Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions. They are currently being updated to reflect legislation passed by Congress and sponsored by Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), R-Ariz., to more expressly rule out torture.

"The administration intends to work with Congress," Snow said.

"We want to fulfill the mandates of justice, making sure we find a way properly to try people who have been plucked off the battlefields who are not combatants in the traditional sense," he said.

[rodeodance]

60. a shift vs a flip-flop! which sounds better?---(a shift)

[pro_blue_guy]

61. :)

I wonder what the "Get US out of the UN" guy down the road is thinking now :)

God I hate that sign!