San Diego Bans Smoking at Beaches, Parks

[Judi Lynn]

San Diego Bans Smoking at Beaches, Parks

Thursday July 13, 2006 8:46 AM

By THOMAS WATKINS
Associated Press Writer

SAN DIEGO (AP) - Worried about the health effects of secondhand smoke and sick of cleaning up discarded cigarettes, San Diego has banned smoking at its beaches and parks. The city joins nearly 2,300 other municipalities across the nation that have barred smoking in a variety of public places.

In California, smoking bans have caught fire in beach communities. At least 35 cities, including Malibu, Santa Monica and Long Beach, now have ordinances to keep smokers from lighting up on the sand.

Several smokers at San Diego's Ocean Beach welcomed the ban, which was pased late Tuesday.

``I think it's a good idea, as long as they don't make us stop drinking,'' said beach resident Libby Brignon, a smoker who is fed up with finding butts in the sand.
(snip/...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5948232,00.html

[cboy4]

1. That's great. I hate finding butts in the sand when I go to the beach.

It's nasty, nasty.

[tabasco]

21. I agree. Who was it that told smokers that butts are not litter?

If more smokers were considerate of the rest of us, there would be no need for these laws.

[zonkers]

22. In my apt building, residents toss butts on the ground all the time. Once

I was walking on the street outside and got hit by a lit one tossed from a balcony. It is disgusting.

[dysfunctional press]

38. yosemite back-country, Cathedral Lake altitude 10,000ft 4 miles in..

and the area was littered with cigarette butts.

people disgust me.

[anitar1]

72. litter

How about disposable diapers? Ever drive on an interstate and see them hanging from fences? People are disgusting.

[MISSDem]

94. Disposable diapers are a real deterrent to crime. When the road

gangs of jail inmates are out on the roadways picking up litter they really hate the diapers. Ha Ha.

[kath]

137. That's a question I've had for years - why the fokkity-fok don't they

think that cig butts are litter? It's disgusting how many of them carpet the ground just about everywhere. Why not carry a little portable ashtray with you, pigs??

[progressivebydesign]

42. I stepped on a burning cigarette butt on Laguna Beach..

I have never forgotten the searing pain.. it was on my instep which is particularly sensitive. Smokers wouldn't dream of throwing litter out a car window.. but think nothing of dumping cigarette butts out...

[fasttense]

2. The vices we choose versus the vices we don't

``I think it's a good idea, as long as they don't make us stop drinking.''

It's alright to find bottle tops and beer tabs in the sand though???

[lindisfarne]

3. Glass isn't allowed on the beach so no beer bottles. Cans don't have

removable tabs any more. I've never seen either on the beach, although I'll bet if I went to Pacific Beach the day after July 4th, I'd find a lot of stuff. Drinking is only allowed on a few beaches -- that's becoming more and more restricted too.

[hang a left]

4. beer tabs???

Where have you been for say...the last 25 years?

[LostinVA]

8. The person saying this is a SMOKER n/t

[VegasWolf]

96. How about an addiction a few people can't control in spite of overwhelming

cost of smoking and the plethora of health information available? Health information doesn't deter meth, heroin, and other drug addictions either. Darwin at work. Society trimming its weaker members.

[megatherium]

102. Darwin not at work: most smokers die after the age of reproduction.

But you're right: smoking is very difficult to quit for most smokers; especially if someone starts smoking as a young teenager. Only a minority of smokers manage to quit even though most smokers try. A colleague of mine told me that he stopped smoking for nearly a year and the cravings never stopped. He still smokes. One of my brothers was a smoker, and he was also a cocaine addict--he says smoking was harder to quit than the cocaine. (Fortunately he succeeded on both accounts.)

Consequently, this attitude of 'let em die, they knew the score' bothers me--most smokers start smoking in their teens, and let's face it, teens are too young to make informed decisions in their own best interests. Another problem: Smoking kills plenty of former smokers. This happened to my Dad, he quit 27 years ago, and still got tagged by lung cancer. He died last year.

[VegasWolf]

109. I started smoking in my teens. I quit. Statistics do not back up

your argument. Less than 28% of the population still smoke. People know the extreme dangers of smoking, it is the smokers who have a "let 'em die" attitude since they care so little about their own lives. True, quitting is hard, so is dying. Darwinian weeding out is also used to describe premature death due to stupidity in common culture. Some people have trouble dealing with any drug addiction. Addiction is a terrible thing.

[megatherium]

111. Perhaps I stand corrected --

I just spent some time with Google and I come to find that about half of all persons who ever smoked are former smokers (according to the CDC). (About 70% of all smokers try to quit each year but only about 5% of them succeed in any given year: See reference #9 in: http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/factsheets/cessation_factsheet.htm) This would imply that more than half of all smokers do succeed in quitting, given that some smokers never seek to quit.

Of course, another factor is lowering the rate of smoking in this country: young people are taking up the habit at a much lower rate than that of a couple of generations ago. I believe the 50s generation smoked at a rate of more than 50% but young people today smoke at a rate of 25% or less. The older generations are of course passing away--alas often to smoking-related diseases.

[VegasWolf]

114. Yes, and you are right that quitting is exceptionally difficult. Smoking

nearly killed me due to a heart attack. I barely survived and was in the hospital for over a month. I had to have a pacemaker and defibrillator implanted because the heart damage was so severe. I STILL wanted to smoke for a couple of years after that, and a lot of people still smoke after open heart surgery. All drugs that end in "ine" ( morphine, cocaine, nicotine, etc ) are all in the plant family alkaloids. Nicotine is heavily addictive. I don't see this particular beach issue as a freedom type of thing, or a second hand smoke kind of thing, but a saving peoples lives kind of thing. I'm all for raising the cost of cigarettes to 15 dollars a pack and restricting them everywhere possible. Otherwise, some people will never have the willpower to quit. I started smoking when cigarettes were 35 cents a pack and I was 13 years old. All of the kids did it back then.

[liberal N proud]

5. GOOD! All beaches should be butt free

Those cigarettes that are thrown on the beach are more than a nuisance. They are picked up by birds and pollute the waters.

San Diego has some of the best beaches on the west coast IMO

[RangerSmith]

6. nanny staters gone wild... amazing.... n/t

[megatherium]

10. Cigarettes take 14 years off of the life of the average smoker, and

second-hand smoke causes problems for people with asthma, and has been linked to cancer. I do not think concern about smoking is mere "nanny statism". This is a highly addictive and deadly product and I support efforts to discourage its use. And a person's use of this product in public does affect the people around them--smokers have no right to complain that their rights are somehow being trampled when all they're being asked to do is not pollute the environment they share with other people.

[RangerSmith]

13. Do you

support the legalization or decriminalization of Marijuana?

[shanti]

34. what's that got to do with this issue???

:eyes:

[0007]

39. Duh?

[megatherium]

71. Actually, I do support decriminalization of marijuana,

and I do not support criminalization of tobacco. But I do support efforts to treat these as health problems and discourage their use.

[LostinVA]

14. I am so tired of the phrase "nanny state" when it refers to public safety

issues and laws. Seriously. Whether it's second-hand smoke/public smoking, wearing motorcycle helmets, making your child adhere to certain car safety laws, etc. You don't have a right to do anything you want to yourself if it affects other people, and you don't own your kids.

It's interesting to me that the Freepers also use this phrase when they also don't like laws, etc. that are there to help reduce certain risks, or to help people.

Not calling the poster a Freeper, I'm just saying it's interesting how this phrase overlaps both here and with FR types about this issue.

[RangerSmith]

20. It's because

the reality is there are "nanny staters" in each party. And it matters not what the issue is, the excuse for knowing whats best for everybody is always the same.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

23. How do motorcycle helmets affect anyone but you? n/t

[LostinVA]

27. Insurance rates, medical costs rates

And yes, that is the truth. It's a waste of resources and money for something that is preventable.

[GuillermoX71]

85. When a motercyclist crashes without a helmet

and no insurance, the rest of us get screwed.

That being said, I am not for helmet laws, as long as we don't have to pay for the subsequent hospital bills that result from riding w/o a helmet.

[jmowreader]

104. Same deal when a helmeted biker crashes

When an unhelmeted rider crashes, he suffers head injuries.

When a helmeted rider crashes, "neck tension" is the problem. Stick a fiberglass helmet on your head and you've put five or six pounds of added weight at the end of a very delicate body part--your neck.

Which is worse? I think they're about the same. You're either fucking dead or crippled for life no matter which way you go.

[Mojorabbit]

47. I'm not a freeper and I call nanny state.

It will be alcohol next. They are already working on people's weight.

[GuillermoX71]

86. Most people would have

more sympathy for smokers if smokers were more considerate in the way they dispose of their butts.

I live in Miami, and cannot go to any beach without seeing thousands (no exaggeration) of butts.

By piece AND volume, cig. butts make up the most trash on the beach.

[frylock]

98. word up!

Seems some of the smokers have sealed the fate of all due to their inconsiderate approach to disposing of cigarette butts. Welcome to DU! :hi:

[FredStembottom]

141. If it's about the butts........

Filterless cigs (and almost all cigars) bio-degrade REALLY quickly. So it's specifically about the filters being found on the beach. If that's the case - then you ban throwing away the filters on the beach (or on the grass in a park). Then you enforce it.

Or...you require quickly degradable filters, possibly.

But if you use this litter problem just to bash smokers for the 1 millionth time - it's purest "nanny statism".

Full disclosure: I smoke 4 to 10 cigars each _year_ with my friends on special fun occasions (fishing, travel etc). Never touched a cigarette - don't smoke marijuana and enjoy only about 10 alcoholic drinks each _year_.

[alarimer]

135. To me this is more of an aesthetic issue

Cigarette butts are not biodegradable. If they have already banned glass bottles for environmental and safety reasons, I see no reason why they can't ban smoking for the same reason. And probably (from a cleanliness standpoint) it would be a good idea to ban eating on the beach. Or restrict it to certain picnic area. People are basically pigs and will throw their crap everywhere.

[jus_the_facts]

51. Do you DRIVE or buy toilet paper or household chemicals?

.....use an air conditioner....those things are MORE damaging to the ENTIRE environment aren't they....and ALL are also PERSONAL CHOICES THAT HURT OTHER PEOPLES SENSITIVITIES AND HEALTH....yet it's always ALWAYS how horrible smoking.....hypocrisy and hyperbole anyone? :eyes:

Each car spills a witches’ brew of dangerous gases into the air each year, including an average of:
4,000 kilograms of carbon dioxide
300 kilograms of carbon monoxide
30 kilograms of nitrogen oxide
35 kilograms of ozone-forming hydrocarbons as well as lesser amounts of methane, lead and particulates."

http://www.rco.on.ca/factsheet/fs_b02.html

Thats 9625 pounds of exhaust per car per year. Nearly 5 tons!

[megatherium]

73. Toilet paper?

If you're talking about smoking in the open air, yes, you have a point, it isn't very much pollution (except for all the cigarette butts in the sand). (And except for the serious problem of tobacco smoke in enclosed spaces, which cause thousands of premature deaths a year in non-smokers.)

But I meant to say that I support efforts to discourage smoking out of concern for the health of the smokers. Smoking is a lot more dangerous than air pollution--to the smokers. (Most lung cancer happens in smokers or former smokers. My own Dad died of lung cancer last year; he was a 2-pack-a-day smoker for 25 years.)

[jus_the_facts]

74. YES toilet paper is made at PAPER MILLS which cause extreme cancer rates..

....to the unfortunate folks who work in them and those that live around them...not to mention the waste *treatment* it takes to rid ourselves of it and the fact that a LOT of communities dump their waste in lakes..rivers...and the ocean.

[megatherium]

82. Extreme cancer rates? Really?

Do they compare with the 175,000 lung cancer deaths per year, most of which due to smoking?

[brook]

87. Don't try to talk sense...

to anti-smoking fanatics.

Smoking has been banned on the beach where I live...I sit in my yard and watch the smokestacks of an antiquated power plant (located at our beach -not inland) - spew particulates that remove the paint from your car. We won't go into the studies on the effects on the health effects on one and all.

During a city meeting, I am treated to the rantings of a person who plans to retire here from oh-such-clean-air Los Angeles and outlines their plan to have smoking banned in a local open air restaurant/jazz club. It is the only restaurant where one may smoke. There are at least 30 other restaurants in town.

A historical fact:
Early anti-smoking campaign

[megatherium]

146. Don't try to talk sense to pro-smoking fanatics.

You'll just get compared to Nazis. By the way, just because the Nazis were for something doesn't mean it is wrong.

And you can be certain that while there is a health cost due to that power plant's air pollution, it isn't the same magnitude as the health risk to smokers from smoking. (Eighty five to 90% of all lung cancers happen in smokers or former smokers. That's 175,000 deaths a year. A similar number of smokers die from obstructive lung diseases and ischemic heart disease.)

Of course, I'm being deliberately obtuse here, the danger to non-smokers from people smoking on a beach is minimal. But my sympathy for pro-smoking fanatics evaporated last year when I watched my father die of lung cancer. Smoking is a habit that needs to be discouraged.

on edit: changed "sympahty for smokers" to "sympathy for pro-smoking fanatics". I didn't mean to imply that smokers deserve the diseases they suffer from, heavens no.

[SoCalDem]

76. And it's an easy way to "look busy" .. It's too hard to legislate

about the really tough stuff..

There are always segments of society that become the safe piñata that everyone's allowed/encouraged to whack.. Tobacco users are the current favorite. It will be someone else's turn soon enough:) Whose vice is next?

[jus_the_facts]

79. This is true....sigh....

:hi: :hug: :loveya:

[megatherium]

81. What other vices kill 400,000 Americans a year,

including several tens of thousands of people who do not use the product but are merely exposed to its users?

[SoCalDem]

83. ...

[megatherium]

84. -

[kath]

138. crickets...

chirp. chirp.

[Bandit]

30. No it is inconsiderate smokers that have been wild for far too long

:shrug: You think beaches should be littered with butts???

[RangerSmith]

32. What would be wrong with

roped off designated areas with a big ass ashtray?

This brown shirt end it all shit is getting old. If it wasn't about nanny state total control BS, there are other options.

[jus_the_facts]

54. It's COVERED in a lot of FECES that's dumped into the ocean....

.....not to mention all the tons of pollution from cars and boats and oil tankers and BBQ PITS...and on and on and on... :nopity:

http://www.rco.on.ca/factsheet/fs_b02.html

"Each car spills a witches’ brew of dangerous gases into the air each year, including an average of:
4,000 kilograms of carbon dioxide
300 kilograms of carbon monoxide
30 kilograms of nitrogen oxide
35 kilograms of ozone-forming hydrocarbons as well as lesser amounts of methane, lead and particulates."

Thats 9625 pounds of exhaust per car per year. Nearly 5 tons!

[Bandit]

59. So that is your justification to polute even more?

They do it too..nah nah nah. Grow up and smoke in your own home if you must smoke.

[jus_the_facts]

60. Grow up and examine the BIGGER PICTURE before you attack....

...others for their personal choices....drive your vehicle in YOUR own home before you go out and ruin the entire planet! :eyes:

http://www.rco.on.ca/factsheet/fs_b02.html

"Each car spills a witches’ brew of dangerous gases into the air each year, including an average of:
4,000 kilograms of carbon dioxide
300 kilograms of carbon monoxide
30 kilograms of nitrogen oxide
35 kilograms of ozone-forming hydrocarbons as well as lesser amounts of methane, lead and particulates."

Thats 9625 pounds of exhaust per car per year. Nearly 5 tons!

[Bandit]

63. Did you know Clinton got a Blow Job

We all know there is a lot of polution happening why do you insist upon increasing it?

[jus_the_facts]

67. no shit sherlock....the POINT is....smoking isn't even in the same...

.....universe in light of the pollution from car exhaust is....why not focus on the BIGGER PICTURE instead of nitpicking on a much smaller one...oh I know..because people who chose to smoke must piss you off much more than the NEED to keep driving and buying industrial products...it's all about personal choice...the idea that all the bigger problems we face from pollution is because we HAVE to because it's NECESSARY to drive and wipe your ass with toilet paper and have air conditioning and so on...hypocrisy and hyperbole no matter how you CHOOSE to look at it.

[FiveGoodMen]

103. Agreed!

[Demit]

7. For enforcement, let's have men going around hitting people with sticks

The ordinances are good, you know, because they probably come with fines that help the state make money off of people's habits, but I think the men with sticks would really make nonsmokers feel extra good about their virtuousness.

[LostinVA]

9. It has nothing to do with "virtuousness"

To has everything to do with littering and second-hand smoke... especially when the littering is done to Nature. She can't take more more abuse.

[Robb]

12. The problem with that argument

...is littering, and with some precedent even second-hand smoke, is covered under most municipalities' public nuisance laws.

[LostinVA]

15. It apparently isn't, or isn't working, here since they made a special law

And, I'm not making an argument, just saying it has nothing to do with "virtuousness"... especially when some of the very people who want this law are smokers.

[Demit]

17. Yes, I too feel that cigarette butts are going to be the end of the planet

And secondhand smoke outdoors is a far greater peril to people than thousands of car, bus and truck exhausts, which of course is not being done to Nature.

[geomon666]

19. So because one is allowed we should allow all of it?

Well hell let's bring back all of those wonderful cancer producing pesticides that have been banned because we allow cars to drive.

[Demit]

24. Just the opposite. Because we demonstrate we care about the unhealthful

effects of some activities, let's demonstrate that we care about the unhealthful effects of all of them. Perhaps even acknowledge the pollution, the cancer agents, to which everyone, not just a minority, is contributing. I realize of course that this is inconvenient. Smokers are an easier, and much more immediately satisfying, thing to "do something about".

[geomon666]

31. Yes it is easier.

Which is exactly why it should be done first. Get the easy stuff out of the way and then conquer the big things.

[Demit]

35. Hahaha! Yes, it is easy to point fingers at a bogeyman, isn't it?

Takes the uncomfortable attention off "the big things". So tell me. When, on your timetable, would it be time for everyone--not just a minority--to to begin doing something about pollution? Tell me what has to happen, in the matter of people who smoke, before you turn your efforts to "conquering the big things"?

[geomon666]

88. When we have an administration willing to do something about it.

That's when that will happen.

[Demit]

89. When people who seem to think it's somebody else's responsibility

--always somebody else's, whether it's smokers, whether it's the government--wake up from the dream that they are pure as the driven snow in relation to people who smoke; when they admit that they themselves are contributing to the pollution that surrounds them; when they finally realize that making a pollution bogeyman out of a minority population--while massive & serious amounts of pollution are being shot into our atmosphere every day by a full gamut of human activities--is a petty and ultimately ridiculous position to take, well, maybe then that will happen.

[geomon666]

112. Cute speech.

But I have a feeling even if we banned every car on the road and shut down all of the oil plants and nuclear power plants and coal firing stations everywhere, you'd still be against banning this disgusting habit from public.

[RangerSmith]

33. Eliminate alcohol

and foods you deem unworthy of consumption as well?

What about all the over the counter drugs and the various studies.... you going to step in and get rid of aspirin because some peoples stomachs bleed?

[Demit]

48. Er, no. That's not my argument. It might, however, be the other guy's.

I am pointing out that if those who think smokers should be villainized are doing so based on the health threat of outdoor cigarette smoke, then they should be at least as worried about the pollution being belched out in their faces daily by automobiles. I don't see this concern, however. What I see is puritanism. And some hypocrisy. Descending on a minority as a big bad source of unhealthful air takes the heat off of having to do something about what really is polluting your air.

Eliminate alcohol? Good heavens, Rangersmith, bite your tongue!

[RangerSmith]

66. lol, SORRY! carry on, and have a drink on me! n/t

[mikelgb]

65. only if taking asprin

causes your neigbor's stomach to bleed

[ellisonz]

119. This has nothing to do with second-hand smoke...

how do you inhale the delicious smoke coming out of my mouth unless you're right in front of me?

The issue is littering. Maybe instead of passing more restrictive laws they should enforce the ones already on the books. But let's not start being rational about this though...

``Nonsmokers are fed up and fighting for their rights to clean air,'' said Robert Berger, president of Healthier Solutions Inc., a nonsmokers rights group.

:rofl:

[geomon666]

18. I'll volunteer.

I have a big stick and the desire to use it. :spank:

[progressivebydesign]

it's about the garbage that smokers refuse to pick up.

They're poisoning the waters with the 3,000+ chemicals in the cigarette butts. Of course, how ironic that people actually inhale that toxic crap into their lungs.. the very stuff that is poisoning the environment.

[ellisonz]

120. As opposed to all the other shit that gets dumped in the ocean...

:eyes:

[XemaSab]

121. Stuff should not be dumped in the ocean at all

Just because butts are only SOME of what gets dumped in the ocean (both as far as physical objects and chemicals) doesn't mean we shouldn't try to keep that shit out of the seas.

There are also the environmental costs of growing tobacco and making the cigarettes.

[progressivebydesign]

41. it's about the garbage that smokers refuse to pick up.

They're poisoning the waters with the 3,000+ chemicals in the cigarette butts. Of course, how ironic that people actually inhale that toxic crap into their lungs.. the very stuff that is poisoning the environment.

[onehandle]

11. Good for them. nt

[Sin]

16. Exactly how do they.

Plan to enforce this with out like the proper authorities wandering about all over the place.
Because if some one came up to me just randomly in a park said that if I don't put out that smoke id be getting a fine and or tried to take the cig off me. I truly hope they make an effort to remember a description of me through severe concussion.

[LostinVA]

28. Then you would be attacking law enforcement agent

And would have bigger worries than having to snuff out a cigarette.

Beaches and parks usually do have some type of security and/or law enforcement.

[Sin]

49. Cool then if im in prison

at least I will be able to see the bars :)

[LostinVA]

62. Nobody's stopping you from smoking in your own space

And, if you read the article, you'll see that smokers as well as non-smokers are happy about this being passed.

[slackmaster]

37. Same way they enforce the no-drinking laws

Piecemeal, or selectively targeting groups of people they don't like.

[VegasWolf]

25. Fantastic!!! Smoking kills! nt

[noonwitch]

26. When I smoke at the beach, I never leave my butts in the sand

I might distinguish the flame in the sand, but then I put them in a bag or something else that I'm going to throw in the trash when I leave.

I don't think second-hand smoke is a big issue outside, where there is ventilation. The issue is more in a house or a car, when it comes to kids. I don't smoke in my house nor in my car, but I do smoke on my porch.

[Contradistinction]

29. I hate nanny government

I no longer smoke, but I find this "banning" stuff to be a load of crap. Banning flag burning, gay marriage, online gambling, smoking indoors, smoking OUTDOORS? How anal do you have to be to be affected by someone smoking a cigarette OUTSIDE 50 feet away from you? Good lord.

If this is a "public health" issue, then I think we should ban all fat people from the beach. I mean, after all they are killing themselves by being overweight & cost me money in rising health care costs. Not to mention, looking at a fat dude in a Speedo could affet my mood for the entire day.

Do we live in a free country or not?

[Township75]

50. You don't have to be anal to be affected by the smoke 50 ft away...

both you and the previous poster are (or were) smokers, so you have become accustomed to the smoke...people who do NOT smoke are not accustomed to it. And I have been bothered by smoke more than 50 ft away.

I am not saying that I support SD's ban, but the idea that nonsmokers are just being anal if smoke bothers them outside is silly.

[jus_the_facts]

52. Could the TONS of car exhaust be causing all that BOTHER?

.....or industrial pollution....nahhh it's ALL about cigarettes... :nopity:

http://www.rco.on.ca/factsheet/fs_b02.html

"Each car spills a witches’ brew of dangerous gases into the air each year, including an average of:
4,000 kilograms of carbon dioxide
300 kilograms of carbon monoxide
30 kilograms of nitrogen oxide
35 kilograms of ozone-forming hydrocarbons as well as lesser amounts of methane, lead and particulates."

Thats 9625 pounds of exhaust per car per year. Nearly 5 tons! :eyes:

[Township75]

61. Maybe you can't tell the difference between car exhaust and

cigarrette smoke, but a lot of people can.

Also, I am curious what beach you go to that has industrial smoke stacks and exhaust pipes running all over it...Hey Honey! Let's setup right over there next to the sand castle and between those two stacks puffing out industrial flue gases!

[jus_the_facts]

64. I don't even live near a beach to go to...but go right ahead and set up...

.....yourself by the oil and shit slicks that form there...then keep complaining that it's ALL because people smoke cigarettes that's the REAL IMPORTANT problem. :nopity:

[Township75]

106. You are killing that strawman...

now as far as debating people that never blamed cigarrette's for pollution, you batting zero.

When your ready to make an arguement relevant to my posts (and apparently anyone else's), let us know.

[jus_the_facts]

132. .

[Scout]

142. wow, what a great argument, such an important point you've made!

did you have to think about that a long time?

You've only got some smokers to blame for this problem. If they weren't inconsiderate lazy pigs who insist on throwing their trash around, people wouldn't have to resort to banning smoking on the beach.

I'm a former smoker, and I can smell cigarette smoke from a great distance. That doesn't bother me much, but the litter sure does. And no, I didn't throw my butts out my car window or on the ground when I was a smoker.

[bjb]

80. anti-smoking jihadists

I see the anti-smoking jihadists are back in full force. I say BAN allautomobiles in public places!

[megatherium]

100. it's possible to use an automobile safely. not cigarettes. nt

[XemaSab]

122. You keep posting this....

Tell me, o ye pollution control expert: which of these components of car exhaust are carcinogenic? Which affect sensitive receptors? Which promote acid rain? Which are greenhouse gases?

According to your own source, which is the most polluting means of travel? What percent of CO2 emissions come from cars? What percent of particulate emissions come from cars?

Are CFCs still being used?

Also, remember that in California we have very stringent pollution controls on cars, and we're frankly about ready to begin regulation of nonpoint sources for air and water pollution.

[Puglover]

125. I'll wager you would also be bothered by a pea

between your mattress and boxsprings. :evilgrin:

[Township75]

133. Depends on how big the pea is...

but I likely would as I HATE peas;)

[Puglover]

134. LOL...good answer.

:rofl:

[progressivebydesign]

43. Then you get a special prize as the only smoker that cleans up..

Can you get the message to the millions of other smokers that have never thrown away their butts? Even tho Surfrider Foundation has had an awareness campaign for years about poisoning the environment thru decarded butts on beachs, people still do it. You are one in a million (sad that you smoke, though. People who care about the environment should be the ones that stick around Earth the longest, not the shortest).

[fleabert]

90. ditto.

i don't have kids, but I don't smoke in my house or in my husbands car. only in mine, with the windows down. AND I don't toss my butts in the street while driving. That was a hard habit to break, don't know why it became a habit in the first place, I guess from watching my step-father growing up.

[maveric56]

126. Neither do I.

I pick them up when I leave.
This is silly. How many are really affected by second hand smoke in the breezy conditions by the ocean?

[slackmaster]

36. I'm not a smoker but the New Puritanism has gone too far

I hate finding butts on the beach too, but IMO a much greater problems are people who A) dump their car ash trays wherever they feel like it, e.g. the middle of the street, and B) people who throw burning butts from their car windows. Those can and do start fires.

[progressivebydesign]

44. It's an issue of poisoning the environment.

It's not new puritanism, it's having to take responsibility for people who refuse to do it. The smokers forced this ban.. in response to their irresponsible behavior.

[slackmaster]

46. Most smokers I know are responsible and don't litter

The focus IMO should be on enforcement of existing laws against littering.

[jus_the_facts]

56. Guess you don't DRIVE or use any products that damage the environment....

....hypocrisy and hyperbole knows NO bounds. :nopity:

http://www.rco.on.ca/factsheet/fs_b02.html

"Each car spills a witches’ brew of dangerous gases into the air each year, including an average of:
4,000 kilograms of carbon dioxide
300 kilograms of carbon monoxide
30 kilograms of nitrogen oxide
35 kilograms of ozone-forming hydrocarbons as well as lesser amounts of methane, lead and particulates."

Thats 9625 pounds of exhaust per car per year. Nearly 5 tons!

[frylock]

99. do you mind not spamming the thread with your strawman arguments?

Yes, cars pollute. We get the picture. Some people need to drive to get to work to buy food to live. OK? You've admitted you don't live near the beach. I do. It's fucking littered with cigarette butts from the selfish lazy fucks who are too inconsiderate to dispose of them properly. That is what's at issue here.

[jus_the_facts]

129. I couldn't give a fuck less where you live and now what you think either..

....I'll voice my opinion regardless.

[frylock]

139. thanks for playing..

tell him what he's won, Johnny!

[progressivebydesign]

40. DISCARDED BUTTS... the smokers can thank themselves for the ban.

You know.. I've participated in beach cleanups for years. The biggest piles of garbage were always cigarette butts. Look around the ground in any park or beach, and they're everywhere. 99.9% of smokers think nothing of discarding butts, yet they'd never throw other trash on the ground. The problem is that they are toxic to the waters... the smokers can thank themselves for the ban. Second hand smoke is an annoyance in a park or beach, but you're out in the air... but the smokers refuse to clean up after themselves and they've lost the right to smoke on the beach..

[Demit]

53. LOL! "they have themselves to thank"; "they've lost the right"--

If that isn't puritanism I don't know what is! I also love the bogus statistic "99.9% of smokers think nothing of discarding butts, yet they'd never throw other trash on the ground". Yes, that really strengthens your argument.

So tell me--about the smaller piles of garbage you've cleaned up--aren't they from people refusing to clean up after themselves? Aren't they made of materials toxic to the waters? Leaving alone for the moment the contradiction that, if you're finding these things on the beach then they aren't in the water...

It's the vehemence and the over-the-top assertions that get me. You've got rage about things you can't control--like the corporations who actually DO pollute the waters--and you've got to find an outlet for it. PbD--will your anger now be assuaged, now that there's a ban on smoking on the beach? Will you be happier now, because the crap you will still be picking up because of the slobs is nontoxic and in smaller piles?

[XemaSab]

123. You seem to think less toxic crap on the beach isn't a good thing

:shrug:

[Demit]

127. That is a very strange reading of my post, xemaSab.

Try reading it again, along with the post it is responding to. See how they connect.

[Seldona]

124. Ding ding ding!

We have a winner!

I guess that 1% of authoritarian personalities that are NOT freepers are all working hard on this issue. "Lost the right', 'They have themselves to thank', sounds an awful lot like authoritarianism to me.

Just saying...

[progressivebydesign]

45. For anyone with questions on why the bans are happening..

http://www.cawrecycles.org/issues/cigarettes

This is a really great resource for the damage caused by discarded cigarettes. (I didn't know that nicotene was actually a pesticide. I knew that many of the chemicals in cigarettes were, but nicotene too. yikes).

[jus_the_facts]

58. Then get a LOAD o' this.....

http://www.rco.on.ca/factsheet/fs_b02.html

"Each car spills a witches’ brew of dangerous gases into the air each year, including an average of:
4,000 kilograms of carbon dioxide
300 kilograms of carbon monoxide
30 kilograms of nitrogen oxide
35 kilograms of ozone-forming hydrocarbons as well as lesser amounts of methane, lead and particulates."

Thats 9625 pounds of exhaust per car per year. Nearly 5 tons!


.....wonder why there aren't MORE bans on the BIGGER POLLUTERS? :eyes:

[Moloch]

91. Like repeating yourself much? n/t

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

55. Here in NYC

you can't walk anywhere that is not covered in butts, despite the fact that there are plenty of garbage cans.

[High Plains]

116. That's because we can't smoke indoors anymore

...and I don't see Mayor Bloomberg providing a whole lot of public ashtrays.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

57. Given the current forest fire situation, this makes sense

One particularly dry summer, Minnesota banned open fires and smoking in its state parks.

[High Plains]

117. Yeah, wouldn't want that sandy beach to erupt in flames.

[VegasWolf]

68. Most people have little regard for smokers. By now, they know the dangers

but are not strong enough to quit their addiction.

[jus_the_facts]

70. Yeah just like driving and buying plastic and such......

....it's all an addiction without solution..same as it ever was. :nopity:

[VegasWolf]

75. Those aren't physical addicitions. I was a smoker until it almost killed

me. Smoking is a physical addiction. Society tends to look down on its weaker members. BTW, there exists an obvious solution for smoking, STOP.

[jus_the_facts]

78. Perspectives... priorities..... to each their own.

....driving IS a physical addiction....try walking ten to twenty miles a day instead of driving. :eyes:

[megatherium]

101. Why do you keep comparing driving to smoking?

Last I checked, the average driver doesn't lose 14 years of his or her life. Smokers do.

[jus_the_facts]

130. yeah how much longer does the planet and other species dying off....

...have because of vehicles and industrial disease? There's a much bigger problem there than with smokers...that's the fucking point...sorry you refuse to realize that EVERYONE will DIE from something anyway...driving...smoking...or what the fuck ever else regardless of how they choose to live their OWN lives. :smoke:

[megatherium]

144. I should make it clear: I am not for banning tobacco.

Only smoking in public. You can live your own life, but not if it involves exposing me to known carcinogens, or littering my environment with cigarette butts. And your comparison with automobiles doesn't wash: Automobiles aren't killing 400,000 Americans a year, but cigarettes are.

[Scout]

143. because she has nothing else to contribute to the discussion.... n/t

[frylock]

105. unless you live in a tree, and are posting to this thread telepathically..

then I don't see what point you're trying to get across. Clearly you're using plastic and polystyrene and other pollutants to pollute this thread with your BS red herrings.

[jus_the_facts]

136. Never ONCE did I say I wasn't a hypocrite....

.....the righteous indignation and hyperbole know NO bounds all the way around BUD. :eyes:

[Seabiscuit]

69. I'm all for it and I'm

a former smoker. I gladly gave up smoking at the beach long before such bans because I didn't like seeing all the butts in the sand. And I've stepped on some lit butts on the beach over the years.

I don't think it's a second-hand smoke issue, though, much as some of the ban's proponents wanted to make it so. It's outdoors, already, and out there there's far more pollution from automobile exhaust than from cigarettes.

[VegasWolf]

77. I'm really glad we don't have this "Left Behind" problem with other drug

addicts. Imagine needles all over the beach.

[Moloch]

92. 17 days without a cigarette!!

Public smoking bans are a good thing. They have encouraged me and many other smokers to quit. People should just make it as inconvenient as possible to smoke.

[VegasWolf]

93. Fantastic. You will be really glad you quit. I was. It took awhile to

quit, but after I did, I wouldn't touch a cigarette again. The thing for me was watching smokers wolf down one cigarette after another, never enjoying it, and coughing. It's eye opening once you break the addiction. Send me an email after a month and let me know how its going. Cheers to you.

[agio]

140. Keep it up

Quitting -- which I did 2 1/2 years ago -- was one of the best things I ever did.

You can stick with it, and the sense of empowerment is amazing. You can really say to yourself, "Well, under my own power I quit using one of the most addictive substances known to man, so what else can I do?"

I am sort of agnostic on this whole beach ban issue, but I can tell you, where I live (Boston) they banned smoking in all public businesses, including bars, and it really did make it easier for me to give it up.

Stay strong. :)

[puffthemagicdragon]

95. can we also ban big fat butts in thongs

smoking is nasty but come on. soon the government will issue all of us our own private nanny. so if cig butts are banned I am also requesting that ugly butts that SHOULD NOT be in thongs be banned. yuck!

[VegasWolf]

97. I'm for a ban on crack users on the beach too! When they puke in front

of me, it makes me sick.

[outofbounds]

107. Maybe we should just ban

people from going to the beach period. This may sound strange but skin cancer kills people too. Let alone all the hazardous bio-waste from surgeries, bandages you know that kind of stuff. Oh and lets not forget the economic effect on us taxpayers taking care of people who are with out jobs hanging at the beach all day. :sarcasm:

My point is we are all going to die. We are living longer than ever before. We are losing rights every day. We will always be able to find something wrong with everything. One volcano puts more crap in the air than we do.

If I'm outside smoking I "field strip my butt' and pocket it or toss it in a trash can. And you can see smoke it goes up with the prevailing wind. The next time you go on a cruise 7-10 mi offshore they dump the waste water. Think about that the next time you go to the beach.

:rant:

I apologize but 2-4 billion a week buys a lot of ashtrays

[jeffrey_X]

147. Yes, but I can choose to wear sunscreen.

I can't "choose" to not breathe in someone else's disgusting cigarette smoke.

[Raine]

108. Thumbs Up

to San Diego :thumbsup: :thumbsup: I go there all the time and this is a happy turn of events! :bounce:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

110. Holy Crap, that is AWESOME!

Sand is not your personal fucking ashtray. Neither is my state park, so quit pretending that it is. Go San Diego!!
Duckie

[maveric]

113. No smoking in OB???

Try enforcing that.

[VegasWolf]

115. "Choosing to smoke" is like "Choosing to shoot heroin into your vein".

[CountDmoney]

118. It doesn't matter, all the beaches are going to be underwater

in 20 years anyway. We might as well smoke up now. We have bigger fish to fry.

[hughee99]

131. Maybe someone can explain the "second hand smoke" argument to me...

I'm from Massachusetts, and go to the beach only a few times per year. It seems like every time I'm there, the winds are so strong, I could have a cigar in my hand and wouldn't even smell it. I understand the argument about the butts in the sand, but are there really that many people who can smell smoke at the beach? Are the beaches in San Diego not very windy?

Yes, I know that second hand smoke is bad for you, but is that an ACTUAL issue in this case, or is that just the reason that's being given to ban smoking?

[RandiFan1290]

145. There is no argument there.

They have to use the second hand smoke issue to single out smokers. If they are so concerned about litter they would also ban all drinking and eating on the beach.