India's call centers hit mid-life crisis (don't call us, we'll call you).

[Dover]

India's call centers hit mid-life crisis
By Indrajit Basu

KOLKATA - Last month, 93 employees of Belair UK, a back-office services company, received a nasty jolt when they returned to their office after a two-day break. They found the office locked and their employer gone.

According to reports, Rajat Ohrie, Belair India chief executive officer, had asked his Indian colleagues on June 11 to take two days off so he could sort out issues regarding unreleased salaries from the United Kingdom headquarters. However, he apparently took advantage of the employee absence to quietly pack up the operation and flee India.

But even as the employees as well as the country's back-office workers' unions are planning widespread protests against this closure, Belair's Indian staff are not the only workers suffering a similar fate.

Three high-profile foreign business process outsourcing (BPO) companies in June abruptly pulled out of India, putting more than 1,000 employees on the street. Questions are now being raised about whether all's well with the Indian call-center business, a phenomenon that made India a leader in the global information technology-enabled back-office business.

It was Apple Computers that led the pullout by announcing in the first week of June that it was shutting down its newly launched tech-support facility in Bangalore. "We have decided to set up our planned support-center growth in other countries," Apple spokesperson Steve Dowling said...cont'd

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HG14Df02.html

[truthisfreedom]

1. bahh! that explains the tense voices i've heard lately on automated

systems that lead to Indian call centers.

[CountAllVotes]

10. I've had to call two of them in the past week

Boy, talk about RUDE! So much for "customer service". :grr:

Tough shit. That is all I can say besides, "Where the hell is my damn refund?"

After my experience yesterday I have made a deal with myself not to buy anything from any company that has outsourced jobs. I don't like being screamed at over the phone nor lied to and cheated (which is the case in both calls I had to make this week).

:kick:

[Juffo Wup]

2. So, what country is going to do it cheaper now?

Since I doubt they listen to complaints about some of the Indian call centers *cough*Sony*cough*, this is about money, I'm wondering where the cheaper employees that still speak English are.

[saigon68]

4. Maybe Liberia ?

[hatrack]

28. Yes, they'll find an English-speaking former colony . . .

Where people will be willing to work 16 hours a day for a sack of dried corn.

I mean, isn't that the logical end of the globalization process?

[saigon68]

32. Too Sad

[Mist]

9. The article mentions China and the Phillipines as having higher

employee "loyalty." Part of the rising cost is the cost of training, and the Indian employees have a high quitting rate (according to the full article).

On edit: What a nifty idea to have even more user info going through China. :sarcasm:

[Gormy Cuss]

17. Many Filipinos have English language skills just like Indians

and they'll work for less. Globalization. It's a good thing. :sarcasm:

The best part is that after dealing with cranky people all day the workers will tell their families and friends about their personal experiences with those nasty Americans.

[NYC]

30. Philippines.

About a year ago, I was speaking to someone in the Philippines who said that Indian jobs had gone there because they were paid U.S. $4 per day. It was cheaper.

[Dover]

3. I'm wondering if this might be a punitive/strategic move by the U.S.

due to some geopolitical allegiances or contracts India has struck with other countries that might not be to our liking..?

[emulatorloo]

5. UK company taking it back to UK

<snip>

Meanwhile, according to Datamonitor, offshore competitors are quickly seizing on announcements of recent exits due to poor quality services and lower-than-expected cost savings.

For instance, Nick Applegarth, managing director of voice technology vendor UK Envox, was recently quoted in a Datamonitor report, "Apparently Powergen has been listening to its customers and feels that their satisfaction outweighs the cost benefits of off-shoring ... The crux of their customers' complaint is that they want to speak to people that understand them, are used to their accent, can spell their name and share the same cultural references."

<snip>

Maybe US companies doing the same?

[CountAllVotes]

12. Discover Card did it

They were telling me they briefly had outsourced some of the jobs. They said they had so many complaints that they were rapidly losing business. So they have since stopped the practice and it is now all Americans.

I am still a customer of theirs because of this. I've dropped American Express way down to almost zero on their credit card as you get India with them now too.

Support Americans and American jobs!

Just say no to outsourcing!

:kick:

[Ravenseye]

14. I don't think it's about outsourcing though

If you called someone, and they spoke fluent english, maybe with an english accent, knew how to help you and could do it in an efficient and friendly way, this wouldn't be happening.

The problem is that they can't train the people in India well enough to get rid of their accents, and know the material, or be culturally friendly. On the whole Americans find them hard to understand, rude, and seemign to read from scripts and not actually helping them.

It's happened to just about everyone I know.

It's not about outsourcing, per se, but about the fact that the quality of customer service calls from India is shit and companies are realizing it.

[krkaufman]

29. You nailed it there...

"seeming to read from scripts and not actually helping them."

That's been my biggest problem w/ outsourced call centers. It's always script-based and never helpful. I've generally already run through everything covered by their "scripts" before calling, yet they make me do it all over again on the phone with them -- and then they have no clue, in the end.

[Ravenseye]

13. Some are I think

People are fed up with talking to people who can barely speak english.

I was speaking to "George" once and he told me to mail my check to someplace in New Jersey. I didn't undersand him.

"New Ark, New Jersey"

Spell that?

Oh...Newark.

Also I think what is happening is that it's not saving them money anymore. People have had so many bad experiences that they won't even talk to the indian people anymore. THey ask to speak with an american, or keep calling and calling until they get one in america, or worse..cancel their service.

[CountAllVotes]

15. yep that is what I have done: Cancelled my service

However, I do have my phone carrier in India. The people that work for them are very nice people and they speak English well and they don't give out bogus names either.

They are far better that AT&T and they do own the phone lines I have so I'm not been spied on.

What a damn hell isn't it?

I'd really like to see us TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK!

America for the American people!!!

:kick:

[Bridget Burke]

20. I've never had that problem with Indians at call centers.

I can understand them pretty well & I've usually gotten polite, useful responses.

Please direct your anger at the corporations who do the outsourcing, not the people doing the work.

[Ravenseye]

22. Good for you

I'm glad your anecdotal evidence trumps mine. Most everyone I know HAS had problems with them, usually with not understanding people, or not being able to get people to go 'off script'.

I'm not angry at the people doing the work, i'm always polite to them and I am angry at the corporations who outsource these jobs.

My point, which you obviously missed, was that people, in general, wouldn't give two shits about that if they could understand the people they were talking to and not have any problems getting what they needed done. Most people aren't complaining about the call centers in india because they are racist, or because they hate outsourcing (though those people definately do exist). Most people complain because they just don't understand and don't get the same level of customer service as they do if theyr'e speaking to someone in Indiana rather than India.

[CountAllVotes]

23. I had a guy SCREAM at me!

This was a few days ago! It was disgusting!

And yes, he was in India!

I have filed a complaint, etc. etc. etc.

And the company was ... HP and I am no longer a customer of theirs. Screw them and their two-bit operation!

If you need technical assistance, you can be on hold for as long as FIVE hours!

I hope they go BANKRUPT!!! And, YES, I do mean that!

[NJCher]

31. psychological costs of customer service

Please direct your anger at the corporations who do the outsourcing, not the people doing the work.


I'll direct my anger to both, but thank you very much for your directive, delivered quite sanctimoniously, I might add.

I'm not particularly rude but I'm not nice either. If I don't understand them, I just say, "Get me someone who can speak English." Of course, if you're going to do this, you'd best get their name and ID number first because they will hang up on you.

Recently I had an Indian customer service person hang up on me but I had his name and ID number. I called his boss back and after I was through with the whole transaction, I'd been credited $243, given an interest-rate reduction and was given one other credit of $188. All because I complained about a non-native English speaker hanging up on me. It never used to be that way (I know because I've been complaining from Day One of this miserable, useless exercise in cost-cutting).

Also, did you notice this from the article:

A high attrition rate means additional recruitment and training expenses for call center firms.


Yes, it's a cost issue but it's a cost issue because the job has found its market rate. In other words, it's only worth so much to do it, whether you're Indian or American. The job takes its psychological toll.




Cher

[PansophicOne]

18. I don't think so//

I tend to think this is more of a business move with business motives. Most likely cheaper labour or perhaps they feel they can give better service back home.

[onehandle]

6. Apple had only 20 or so workers there. Dell is expanding to 20,000. nt

[CountAllVotes]

16. Dell will follow HP

Both on the road to bankruptcy IMO! And they both deserve it with their crap products and even crappier service IN INDIA! Ugh! '

:kick:

[progressivebydesign]

26. I paid off my Dell account and told them NEVER AGAIN..

until they return jobs the the US. I got tired of trying fucking communicate with the call center people in India. And tired of creating a middle class in India while destroying ours.

[Milspec]

35. My Sister hears that allot

She is a independent contractor "At Home" Call center. Allows he to stay hat home and raise her son (alone)

[Joe Bacon]

7. Tom Friedman sees nothing wrong with it UNTIL...

...the New York Times outsources him.

What will Tommy say then, when he has to beg for a job as a Wal Mart greeter?

[Mountainman]

8. "You never turned around to see the frowns on the jugglers and the

clowns
When they all come down and did tricks for you
You never understood that it ain't no good
You shouldn't let other people get your kicks for you"
You used to ride on the chrome horse with your diplomat
Who carried on his shoulder a Siamese cat
Ain't it hard when you discover that
He really wasn't where it's at
After he took from you everything he could steal.

How does it feel
How does it feel
To be on your own
With no direction home





I hate those Indian call centers. They call and say their name is David in a heavy Indian accent and can't pronounce my name.

[CountAllVotes]

11. boy are you ever right!

I was addressed as "Mr. Kathleen" yesterday. They don't know squat about the USA or any other English speaking country. They don't quite get "it". I'm infuriated by it and yes, the guy I talked to was named "James". The next day I got a "Charles" of course. NO MORE!

:kick:

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

19. I hope every single Indian call center crashes and burns.

As an IT man who has frequent occasion to make use of this "service" I can tell you they create far more problems than they solve.

BRING 'EM HOME, BOYS. Pay 'em a good salary and many of the inherent problems will disappear. Be willing to shave a decimal point off your profit margin and you won't regret it.

[OhioChick]

21. Hear, hear!

:thumbsup:

[CountAllVotes]

24. I'll second that!

:thumbsup: !!!

:kick:

[MelliMel]

25. I agree. We have lost many jobs

to India. Call center operators average about $15-25/hr depending on what level of customer service or technical support they are responsible for. That's not a bad wage, even in California.

[proud patriot]

33. It's more than I make as a T.A.

in California

[RamboLiberal]

27. I'm in IT too and I'm with you

I try to find answers to my problems on the internet first rather than talk to Help Desks with people who accents so thick you can't understand them. And many times their knowledge of how to solve the problem sucks. Not to mention long hold times on the phone.

[Skittles]

34. ditto here, Rambo

I deal with workers overseas all night at work; off work I'll do anything I can to avoid talking to them, I just can't stand it