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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:13 PM
Original message
US economy resilient amid record oil prices: Bodman

http://www.redorbit.com/news/general/573073/us_economy_resilient_amid_record_oil_prices_bodman/index.html?source=r_general

US economy resilient amid record oil prices: Bodman

CALGARY, Alberta (Reuters) - The U.S. economy has been "surprisingly resilient" in the face of record high crude oil prices, U.S. Energy Secretary Sam Bodman said on Friday.

"We have found that the U.S. economy has been surprisingly resilient, surprisingly able to manage the increase in prices that we have already seen, " Bodman said at a news conference with Canadian government energy officials. "I am hopeful that it will continue to do so."

U.S. crude oil futures prices surged to a record high of high as $78.40 a barrel on Friday on fears the conflict between Israel and Hizbollah guerrillas could escalate and spread to more Middle East countries.


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TAPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Is he out of his freakin" mind? nt
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I Would Have to Agree With Him
If you lived through the oil shocks of the 70s, at this point GNP was tanking and people were panicking. The reaction to these oil prices should have been much worse both in inflation and growth. It has to be Bush's enormous fiscal stimulus that's preventing that from happening this time around. (Not that it's a responsible way to run the economy.)
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Economic growth is way over stated due to this being a war economy
...and inflation for the average middle-class and poor american family is twice the official stated rate of inflation, which I don't believe is correct either...4.9% inflation...that dog don't hunt!
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FreeStateDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. If banks are paying 5.5% on CDs inflation has to be a LOT higher than 4.9%
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. That was back in the old reality-based days
before we reaqlized that images are all that matter and started running the whole country on plastic.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. Nah. Everything is charged now.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Maybe he has his head in the sand or stuck up his aasss
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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. Tell him to read today's Krugman.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hummm, let me see now, crude oil prices have risen 300% since
...Bush first came to the WH in Jan 2001 and in all likelihood will hit $100 a barrel by the November elections or right after, the federal debt is over $9.1 trillion and rising with no ceiling cap in sight, millions of high paying jobs have been outsourced overseas and unemployed americans have had to settle on jobs which pay less and offers no benefits, and americans are dying in a foreign war that is totally disconnected from our country's national security interests, and the U.S. economy shows resilience? What a fuck-wade of a complete distortion of reality the neo-con U.S. Energy Secretary Sam Bodman is!
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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. High prices are easily managed
When everything goes on the credit card, be it the national debt or individual debt, it is easy to say that there is little impact.

Bodman lives in the same fantasy, bizarro world as much of our "leaders", media, and neighbors.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Correct, thank you personal consumer credit is through the roof
...something in the range of $55 trillion in the U.S. now I recall seeing recently. How will those of us even with a few thousand dollars in credit card debt plan to pay that off when inflation of basic stuff we need and can't really do with out (food, fuel, clothing, utilities) these are things we are stuck with paying regardless of the price changes, and these are going up way faster than wages can keep up with. Very bad situation and before Bush leaves office, will get far worse.
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Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. There's one big problem with his conclusion
The current record oil prices haven't trickled down to the consumer level yet. It's way too soon for that.

Give it three or four months of compounded price increases on everything made from oil and then let's see him make this statement.
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. There's the answer.
Notice, how quickly Bodman came to his conclusions? BEFORE the anvil drops...

I agree with you. It's far too soon to gauge the outcome. Although I know what is the likely results. Depression.
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Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Most likely not a depression
But it will be a serious recession.

Unlike the 2001 mild one.


In another sign of bad tidings, Japan raised their interest rates today. They are preparing for a global economic slowdown.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. Everyone, everyone! We MUST remember that they always forget this part!!
"if you're rich".

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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. bullshit....
....even a dumb-ass like me knows if you jack the cost of energy sky high, price increases for everything won't be far behind....what you can expect is steady pricing of your five pound bag of sugar, now selling in a four pound bag, will soon be selling in a new three pound bag....
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. Bullshit!
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Theres-a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
16. BULLSHIT!
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
18. Seems the market doesn't hold the same optimistic view.
With a 106 pt drop in the DJIA, it looks like they don't agree with Bodman.
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recidivist Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
20. "Surprisingly resilient" is exactly right.
Edited on Sat Jul-15-06 08:11 AM by recidivist
Before bashing Bodman, pay attention to what he actually said. He is expressing some surprise that the economy has held up as well as it has in the face of the oil price escalation. That surprise is shared, I imagine, by just about everyone who remembers the 1970's. I would also guess that most economists, five or ten years ago, would have unhesitatingly predicted a deep recession by now.

We may get a recession yet, but "surprisingly resilient" is a fair characterization of the economy's performance so far.

Some random thoughts:

1. The U.S. economy is twice as energy efficient today as it was in 1973 (in terms of energy per unit of GDP). Most of this improvement has occurred in industry.

2. Consumers continue to be profligate. That will change if prices stay high. In the short term, people can easily reduce discretionary driving. Over a period of 3-5 years, the vehicle fleet can largely turn over. The McMansion crowd has a tougher adjustment in store -- the extreme commuters are the ones who will really pay the price.

3. At $3.00 a gallon, gasoline in the U.S. is still cheaper than it has been for many years in Europe and Japan, where high gasoline taxes have been the norm. As a general rule, I think taxes in the U.S. are too high (above the revenue maximizing level over a reasonable planning horizon), but I can easily make the case for a major increase in gasoline taxes here. If dependence on oil imports is a threat, our first target should be discretionary driving.

4. There is a good case to be made for putting a floor under the price of oil. There are many new energy sources popping up on the periphery. These are viable at various price points, but at an oil price from roughly $35/barrel on up, various of the alternatives are competitive. One of the big issues now, however, is uncertainty about the long term price of oil. How many billions of dollars are you willing to put into new plants if a drop in oil back to $25 puts you out of business? Correlatively, how long do oil prices have to stay high before you are convinced that $50 or $70 a barrel is here to stay? A price floor could resolve those uncertainties.

5. I wish I had invested a bundle in ethanol three or four years ago.

6. The politics of this could be dangerous. In the '70's, we aggravated and prolonged the pain with price controls and comprehensive regulation. The price bubble broke within months of President Reagan decontrolling oil -- lo and behold, it turned out that markets work. There seems to be a much greater maturity this time around. The danger, however, is that we will go overboard on subsidies -- not because they will accomplish anything but because politicians will feel they must "do something" and will get into a bidding war to one-up the other guy. That's not the way to make policy.

Hybrids, for example, are already flying off the lots as fast as the automakers can build them. We don't need to increase the already-existing subsidies. Ethanol and biodiesel, both of which already receive producer tax credits, are going gangbusters. We don't need to increase the subsidies. Wind energy, which also receives a tax credit, is surging.

The point is, at current oil price and subsidy levels, the market is already bringing new energy sources into play. I wouldn't remove the existing subsidies until things calm down -- there is too much uncertainty in the mix already -- but a couple of years down the road, if the price of oil stays high, we should be thinking about whittling them back, not increasing them.

What we need now is intensified research on the next generation of power sources: cellulosic ethanol, battery technology, plug-in hybrids, hydrogen, and fuel cells. These things are not ready for commercialization yet. A couple of them are getting close. All of these are high priorities right now for the Department of Energy. The Administration has packaged most of this under the rubric of the "Advanced Energy Initiative," which is worth a read if you are interested.

There's a lot of interesting stuff going on, but it won't happen overnight. I am very glad I am not a suburban cowby with a two hour commute. My gasoline bill has already gone up from $40-60 a month to around $100. I can afford that without much noticing the difference, but we live more sensibly than a lot of people (car- and house-wise, at least).
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