Iran Official: No Part of Israel Safe

[ECH1969]

The speaker of Iran's parliament warned Israelis on Tuesday that no part of their country is safe from Hezbollah attack.

The comments by Speaker Gholam Ali Haddad Adel called into question Tehran's official position that it is not involved in the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon.

"The towns you have built in northern Palestine (Israel) are within the range of the brave Lebanese children. No part of Israel will be safe," Haddad Adel told thousands of anti-Israel demonstrators in Palestine Square.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/18/D8IUHG880.html

[wtmusic]

1. Here we go

Fasten your seatbelts kiddies. We're in the fast lane on the road to hell.

[BeHereNow]

5. Fastened in- scared to the bone.

The rate of escalation is dizzying.
It's like we are trapped on a roller coaster
that is nearing the top of the first drop.
Problem is, it appears that once the fall
starts, it will never end.
I feel physically ill.
BHN

[meganmonkey]

49. Here's another one of these

for you :hug:

[MGD]

2. So much for the illusion of non-involvement

[sugapablo]

3. Hmmm....

Notice he said "brave Lebanese children"...

What cowards! Even actively trying to keep the focus on the Lebanese, instead of where the real blame belongs, on Iran.

Hezbollah are traitors to Lebanon. Sellouts! Sellouts to the tune of $100,000,000/year from Iran to do it's bidding. Now the "brave Lebanese children" (and by that I mean the actual, innocent children) are paying the price, huddled in their basements as Iranian leaders laugh in everyone's face.

Impotent George can do nothing but stuff his face as make smart ass remarks to his buddies.


Edit: spelling and one clarification in parenthesis.

[omenapoint]

4. Israel needs to destroy Hezbollah.

We should help. I hate those bastards.

[Bridget Burke]

9. So go to Israel & join up.

I'm sure they will be glad to have you.

[omenapoint]

11. If they would take sombody with fused vertabrae,

and two ruined knees, I sure would. So, what do you think about Hezbollah?

[wtmusic]

29. Why don't you give it a try -- maybe they'd still take you

I for one am more than tired of listening to armchair warriors cheering on a powerful nation pounding the crap out of a tiny one due to what is a relatively minor diplomatic incident.

Give us a report from the front lines, will you? :eyes:

[omenapoint]

34. I don't get it.

What the heck are you talking about?

We have a small country, that has guts, pounding the crap out of terrorists.

I can't believe the sympathizers I find here.

[wtmusic]

41. You'll find a lot of sympathizers here

because many DUers refuse to accept the designation of a "terrorist" without looking a little more deeply into what is causing them to act.

If you were to consider them insane, religious zealots who are looking for a fight and only care about how God will receive them in heaven, you would be in very good company in America and in Israel.

I and some others choose to see them as not so much different from ourselves. As people who possibly want the same things as we do for their lives and for their families. But also, weak individuals who believe they can take their frustrations out by killing others in the name of their God.

Kind of like many Israelis.

[RangerSmith]

47. I just

can't seem to remember Israel saying Iran has no right to exist.

[wtmusic]

61. Yeah, neither are the Lebanese

but all them towel-heads is the same, ain't they? :eyes:

[RangerSmith]

67. sorry you feel that way

One or two well placed nukes would take care of that if it were the real issue.

[Warren Stupidity]

62. Iraq seems to have lost the right to exist.

And Israel both championed that disaster and has strongly suggested that the same sort of benefit be bestowed on Iran and Syria.

The forces doing the lion's share of the killing are our own. The forces with the vast preponderance of deadly weapons, with the ability to deploy those weapons anywhere they choose, and with a history of doing just that, are our own. If you want to see terrorists who kill civilians without remorse you only need to look in the mirror.

[RangerSmith]

66. please...

If we wanted Iraq and it's people to not exist we would have never landed there in the first place. We'd have just bombed it into oblivion.

Geez man... this war sucks, but it is what it is, and it ain't about eliminating a race of people.

[wtmusic]

68. Subtlety

Even Junior knows bombing Iraq into oblivion is too obvious. Better: occupy the country, provide no infrastructure, no law and order, and let them kill each other off. Exactly what would happen in the US, no?

This war sucks because it is what it is.

[RangerSmith]

69. That idiotic tin-foil hat

theory only holds up as as long as dipshit is holding office and I'm not buying into the paranoid "they are going to cancel the elections" BS that flys around here when all the other tin foil hat theory's fall apart at the same juncture....

honestly... I can't stand the right wing and it's nuts, but I'm having just as hard a time joining up with the left wing nuts and actually trying to do something about it...

[wtmusic]

70. Now now

the "canceling the elections" nonsense is your contribution, and does your argument no good.

No tinfoil here, no conspiracy. Just noting the obvious that the Bush administration could give a rat's ass about the Iraqi people.

[RangerSmith]

72. fair enough

and point taken, but I do still disagree. :)

To bush they are potential converts to his religion and to at least that degree, he really wants them.

[PaDem]

55. terrorists???

I just can't believe the disconnect. They are destroying infrastructure and killing civilians (I don't care if it's not intentional). What terrorists have been killed so far? What proportion of the dead thus far in Lebanon are Hezbollah?

Just for the record I think Hezbollah and Hamas are pond scum, so don't come back calling me a sympathizer of terror organizations.

[Threedifferentones]

54. Hezbollah does need to be destroyed

but when has Hezbollah used the Beirut airport? Or relief trucks from the Red Crescent? Or neighborhoods deeper into Lebanon where rockets are not coming from? The entire nation of Lebanon is paying the price for Hezbollah's actions, but most of them have had no part in the violence.

Of course now many will be inspired to. By demolishing Lebanon in such a way they are only creating more terrorists and destroying another sovereig nation's fledgling economy/deomacracy. For some reason, however, the Israelis are unable to see this.

[gmtmaster]

56. They have been fighting each other for decades...

Let them go at it if they think it will solve anything...

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

51. Israel created Hezbollah..n/t

[coalition_unwilling]

6. Hezbollah are "traitors to Lebanon"? Where do you get such

crap? Hezbollah are responsible for already having driven Israel out of Lebanon once already (in 2000); I'd hardly say that qualifies them as "traitors to Lebanon." Whatever.

[PansophicOne]

8. Perhaps...

Because they decided to step things up against Israel in a war that will not help Lebanon in any shape or form. If someone breaks into my house and start shooting at my neighbours, when the cops or my neighbours start shooting back I am going to blame the schmuck who started the shooting.

Because of Hezbollah, Israel now has an 'excuse' to do what it's doing. This is true whether you think Israel is in the right or if you think Israel is in the wrong and should simply allow rocket attacks. Ehhnn, the people who are going to suffer the most are the innocent Lebanese and the innocent Israelis. Unless of course you can explain to me how Hezbollah is helping the people of Lebanon with these attacks, I for one don't see how they help.

[coalition_unwilling]

10. Let's review history, shall we? Hezbollah did not intitiate "these

attacks" -- Isreal did, following Hezbollah's capture of two IDF soldiers.

Hezbollah has every right to resist illegal Israeli aggression against Lebanon, under the rules of the U.N. charter.

[omenapoint]

12. ??????

Hezbollah has no right, they are not the government. Hezbollah is a terrorist nongovernmental organization and should be destroyed. Lebanon, and the planet would be better without them.

[wtmusic]

16. They said the same thing about Saddam

"the planet would be better" blah blah blah.

Hezbollah has rights just like you do. Get used to it. The "should be destroyed" bullshit is exactly what will make them thrive.

[omenapoint]

19. I disagree wholly.

I don't send suicide bombers to climb onto a bus full of people. I don't lob rockets and explosives at cities indiscriminantly.

Hezbollah forfeited any rights it has. The organization must be demolished. Or, I suppose Israel could surrender and we could sit back and watch a new holocaust as the Jews are pushed into the sea. Do you have a preference?

[coalition_unwilling]

21. My Israel, right or wrong (eom)

[wtmusic]

24. Is there a significant humanitarian difference

between putting suicide bombers onto buses, or conducting aerial strikes on civilian neighborhoods?

If so I wish you would point it out to me.

[omenapoint]

35. Israel warns them first,

and doesn't target civilians?

Why do so many here side with Hezbollah?

[wtmusic]

40. It's not so much that people are siding with Hezbollah

and maybe I'm not speaking for others, but...

I would suggest that the 295 civilians killed by Israeli airstrikes were not adequately warned, and whether targeted or not, are just as dead as any bombed Israelis.

I would also suggest that doing enough bombing to kill 295 Lebanese civilians is painting with a very wide brush after Hezbollah, a group with which the civilians likely had nothing to do, killed 2 Israelis (total as of 7/20: 25 Israelis).

Again, I'll suggest that peace is the responsibility of the powerful, and clearly Israel could wipe Lebanon off the face of the map.

edited to update EXTREME DISPARITY BETWEEN CASUALTY FIGURES FOR THE TWO COUNTRIES :grr:

[AnOhioan]

39. Nice dramatics....

"pushed into the sea" So where are those talking points from?

[coalition_unwilling]

20. One person's "terrorist" is another person's "resistance fighter" --

did you know that Reagan referred to the African National Congress as "terrorist"? Did you know that LBJ referred to the Vietcong (or, more properly, the National Liberation Front) as "terrorist." So spare me the dreaded t-word, k?

[Laotra]

26. Only governements have rights?

How totalitarian.

[onenote]

43. so I take it you would defend the "rights" of right wing militias

and groups like Posse Comitatus? After all, if the government can arm itself, why shouldn't those groups have the same "right"
:sarcasm:

[Laotra]

45. States

are right wing militias, as a rule of thumb.

Since I'm a revolutionary socialist I don't support either. Since I am a pacifist I don't support any mechanisms of violence, but neither do I categorically oppose people's right to defend themselves. I also don't take fundamentalist moral positions, only rationally qualified ones ("If we accept this ethical axiom, then it follows...")

[coalition_unwilling]

48. It's not so much a question of "rights" as it is a fact that, as Mao said,

"political power grows out of the barrel of a gun" (a very vulgar rendition, I agree in advance, of what Mao actually said\wrote).

Normally, a modern nation-state achieves viability when it acquires a monopoly on the use of force. Lebanon was a nascent nation-state and had not acquired a monopoly on the use of force. That said, the Lebanese people in general (the corporate whore media's claims notwithstanding) strongly support Hezbollah and view it as having directly helped liberate Lebanon from Israeli military occupation.

The official Lebanese military is incapable of defending the Lebanese people against armed aggression, so it falls to Hezbollah to perform that function. What's so hard to get about that?

[onenote]

52. well, if that's the case then it was the state that crossed the border

not just some terrorists, right?

[onenote]

53. link for your assertion about the people's support for Hezbollah?

You state that the "Lebanese people in general...strongly support Hezbollah". From conversations that I've had with individuals from Lebanon, that may be true in the Southern part of Lebanon, but its is not true "in general." My sense is that a substantial portion of the Lebanese people outside the southern portion of the country regard Hezbollah as religious extremists for whom they have little use.

[sueragingroz]

59. Hmmm.... kinda like

The KKK ....

They have their adherants.... but those adherants are not in the majority...

[coalition_unwilling]

71. No links, but have heard it on numerous radio programs, such

as "Democracy Now," "Background Briefing with Ian Masters," (both on the Pacifica Radio Network) and numerous articles in "Counterpunch" (which can be accessed on the web at Counterpunch.org. (BTW: Since I can't stand Al Franken and Ed Schultz, I tend to restrict myself only to Randi Rhodes, Mike Malloy and Stephanie Miller on AAR.)

Are you denying that Hezbollah deserves credit for having driven Israel out of Lebanon once already (in 2000)? If so, you're one of the few persisting in that view.

[onenote]

73. non sequiturs are not terribly helpful

Not sure what connection the issue of whether "Hezbollah deserves credit for having drivenIsrael out of Lebanon" has to do with the question of whether Hezbollah is viewed positively by most Lebanese outside the southern portion of the country. And as to the "deserves credit" question, "credit" isn't the word I would use, and I don't think I'm alone in that. The situation is not that simplistically described. Lebanon's history over the past 30 years is marked by occupations, shifting alliances, troop incursions, troop withdrawals -- both by Israel and by Syria. Israel moved into Lebanon in 1978 in response to cross border attacks. It withdrew after a few months in accordance with a UN resolution. However, Hezbollah stayed in the area, arguably in violation of that same UN resolution. Israel moved back into Lebanon in 1982. This second occupation had the effect of reducing cross border attacks, but attacks on Israeli military inside the occupied area ultimately drove the Israeli government to withdraw to the UN recognized borders. The Israelis hope was that the Lebanese Army would fill the vaccuum at that point. But that didn't happen. Hezbollah immediately moved in. Whether they deserve
"credit" for this result depends on whether you mean "credit" in a positive sense. It is hardly clear that the Lebanese "in general" thought Hezbollah's dominance over the southern part of the country was such a good thing. As noted, alliances have formed, disintegrated, reformed, etc throughout the past 30 years. Its not surprising therefore that when the former Lebanese prime minister was assassinated last year, there were major demonstrations blaming Syria and demanding the withdrawal of Syrian troops from Lebanon. On the other hand, there also were substantial demonstrations organized by Hezbollah in support of Syria. Ultimately, however, Syria did withdraw the troops that had long been present in Lebanon. My conversations with Lebanese ex-pats (and Lebanese citizens currently working in the US) indicate that this was considered a positive development by a large portion of the population, particularly outside southern Lebanon. In short, its a complex situation, and blithely suggesting that Hezbollah has enjoyed the support of the Lebanese people in general is at best a gross oversimplification.

[coalition_unwilling]

74. Wow, I'm not an expert on this subject so I have to rely on

what I hear on the radio and what I read at various alternative media sites (like Counterpunch).

First of all, I meant "credit" in the historical sense, neither positive nor negative, as in the answer to this question: "Why did Israel withdraw from southern Lebanon in 2000?" Annswer: "Credit must be given to Hezbollah as the principal driving force behind Israel's withdrawal."

Saying "credit" does not necessarily imply an endorsement, I don't think, merely an acknowlegment of historical responsibility.

Here's my dilemma: corporate whore media (specifically ABC News, among others) says there's wide-spread anger in Lebanon at Hezbollah. Alternative media (like Pacifica and Counterpunch.org) say Hezbollah enjoys widespread Lebanese support. Corporate whore media lied about Iraq and alternative media got Iraq right. So should I now trust corporate whore media and dis-regard alternative media?

If I engaged in gross over-simplifications, it's only because life is short and I'm not an expert. I do apologize if I gave any offense.

[PansophicOne]

15. Perhaps I am misinformed but...

I could have sworn the IDF soldiers were in Israel during the kidnapping.

[sugapablo]

18. Yep

They were in Israel, plus 8 other Israeli soldiers were killed in the raid. Not to mention the numerous missles that were fired from Lebanon as well.

Should Israel just have shrugged their shoulders?

[coalition_unwilling]

23. Why do you call it "kidnapping" (that's RW language) -- they're

captured soldiers, not civilians. Israel currently holds over 9,000 Palestinians without charge and without trial. Now that's "kidnapping" (imho)

[sugapablo]

28. Two errors...

in your statement. One, if the soldier had been on Lebonese soil, then it would've been "captured". If They took a soldier from Kentucky, would you call it "capture" or "kidnapp"?

Plus, those Palestinian prisoners DID have trials. Israel gives open trials to each of it's prisoners.

[coalition_unwilling]

30. Some of the Palestinian detainees have had trials, but the

vast majority have not. Sorry I can't source that right now, but it's fairly common knowlege, I think.

[sugapablo]

32. Ok...

On that one point you're right as Israel does not consider "Administrative Detainees" prisoners.

Ugly semantics on Israel's part.

I never said Israel was perfect.

[coalition_unwilling]

31. If they're soldiers of a hostile power during a state of war and

they're taken, it really doesn't matter where they're taken, they're captured not kidnapped, for Christ's sake.

[onenote]

42. Hezbollah isn't the military arm of any state

To use a somewhat stretched, but not entirely inapt analogy: was Patty Hearst "kidnapped" by the Symbionese Liberation Army, or was she "captured"?

[coalition_unwilling]

46. Some would say that Patty Hearst was "liberated" by the SLA.

You say that Hezbollah isn't the "military arm of any state," (questionable ipso facto), as if that somehow means that Hezbollah cannot engage in the phenomenological activity of "capture."

REALITY CHECK: Hezbollah and the IDF are hostile powers, regardless of whether Hezbollah is the military arm of a state. As hostile powers, each can and does "capture" members of the other power.

If you want to keep saying "kidnapped," go right ahead. And while you're at it, don't forget to mention the 9.000+ Palestinians who have been "kidnapped" by the IDF. Whatever.

[toopers]

36. Actually, I believe the Hezbollah terrorists crossed into . . .

Israeli territory, attacked 3 soldiers, killing one immediately, and kidnapping the other 2. Then they went back into their territory and started making demands for the safe return of the soldiers they kidnapped. Only then did Israel move into Lebanon -- going after military/terrorist targets -- unlike Hamas and Hezbollah who continue to randomly bomb areas within Israel.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

50. I condemn

Israel's actions in Lebanon. It's collective punishment and its unsupportable, but this meme that it was a minor diplomatic incident, that only involved the capture of two soldiers, was born out of either ignorance or blind partisanship. H'zbollah has been shooting rockets across the border into Israel for years now, and three soldiers were killed when H'zbollah militants crossed the border and attacked the Israelis. The provocation from H'zbollah is well documented.

[Warren Stupidity]

63. Actually as far as I can tell there was one Hezbollah rocket

attack in the last six years. That was the attack on Kiryat Shmona, December 2005. There were other incident by both sides in the border region and there is an ongoing dispute that frequently breaks out in minor hostilities over the occupied Shebaa Farms region which Hezbollah claims is part of Lebanon and which Israel claims is part of the occupied Golan Heights.

[cali]

64. Sources please

virtually all newpaper accounts hold that there have been numerous rocket attacks over the last few years, and the border between Lebanon and Israel was set by the U.N.

[Warren Stupidity]

65. You made the positive assertion, you provide the data.

I can't of course prove the lack of rocket attacks. You might want to start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizbullah#Continued_activities_against_Israel_after_2000

[wtmusic]

13. False dichotomy

1) Israel is right, or
2) Israel "should simply allow rocket attacks"

Neither is the case.

Peace is the responsibility of the powerful, and Israel is shirking its responsibility.

[PansophicOne]

17. Ok I give you that.

I allowed my bias to get in there(although I'm not big fan of Israel) Umm, I am curious as to what you think Israel should have done. I admit that it's my gut instinct to say that Israel should have restrained itself more and handled it differently, but when I try to think of other paths I'm not sure what else would work. If they negotiated with them and gave up the prisoners they wanted then that would only encourage it to happen more. I personally don't think that is a valid option. Then of course I suppose they could have simply allowed the kidnapped soldiers to be killed. But then that would have caused unrest within the country of Israel and who knows where that would have lead. There are many Jews out there who are just as fanatical as the most fanatical Muslims.

[wtmusic]

22. Good question

What should have been done? There are a million different answers, because there are a million different ways of approaching it.

If I were Olmert -- I would have pursued diplomatic means first. Demand a meeting with Lahoud and put the issue before the UNSC. Nothing happens? Take down Hezbollah headquarters; organize a clandestine Mossad rescue/surveillance mission. Still no action and no cooperation? Bomb Lebanese military installations; increase diplomatic pressure.

Negotiating with Lebanon would drive fanatic Israelis crazy. Too fucking bad. Fanatics on either side don't deserve any voice in diplomacy.

[sugapablo]

33. No...

They deserve a voice, but that's all they deserve: a voice. They don't deserve to bring regions to their knees by acts of violence.

[wtmusic]

44. I'll part with you there

Fanatics don't deserve any voice in diplomacy. If they want to rant on some street corner, fine.

Diplomacy requires the coolest of heads and the best of minds. Fanatics not invited.

[Laotra]

25. Step things up?

They were doing what they have been doing long time, mutual game of low scale conflict. Objectively looking it is the party that is bombing Lebanon 50 years back that "stepped things up".

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

7. Mhmm...

Did he have any comment on where Hezbollah got all their fancy new toys?

[pberq]

14. How about the fact that these "fancy new toys" don't

amount to a hill of beans when compared with Israel, which has the 4th most powerful military in the world, thanks to our hard-earned tax dollars.

(edit for spelling)

[Marie26]

27. This kind of blows

the claim that Iran isn't behind Hizbollah, doesn't it? It sounds like they're actually controlling some of their actions, in addition to just funding the group.

[confludemocrat]

57. 100% behind Israel? then stop your hypocrisy and call for war against Iran

managed by GWB of course (how do like that?), because all the rhetoric about Israel defending itself must lead down that road if Iran is truly behind this. Go ahead and say it if you have the guts. But it is more likely that such people will be Bush-like and claim that Israel must keep attacking the people of Lebanon or Syria. This is where your unconditional support for Israel and attacking Hezbollah leads you. Shit or get off the pot. Don't try to pretend you are liberal and back Israel all the way-you can't be.

Edited to say this is not meant necessarily for the person replied to, but generally to the Israel zealots in this thread

[AnOhioan]

38. And no part of Iran is safe, or the US, or...

any damn country. I fear we are crossing a line that will make prior conflicts look tame.

We are no longer the only country with nukes as we were at the end of WW2.

The govt's of the US, Iran, Israel and others are driving us to a point where this conflict will take on a life of it's own.

[Seabiscuit]

58. Is that idiot begging to be bombed by Israeli warplanes???

[durtee librul]

60. Saying that the Lebanese

people are all with Hamas and Hezbollah is like saying all Americans are Catholics (or whatever religion you pick). I think this 'group' of whatever they call themselves has taken over a country and the innocents are the ones who are suffering.

I also think that this 'group' wouldn't have come to power as easily as they have if Isreal hadn't made it so rough and kept these people downtrodden for as long as they have. Isreal has to take part of the blame as well, whether they like it or not. Every society should take social responsibility for the less fortunate. Go ahead and flame away, but that's just my humble opinion.

As far as the US sitting on the side, get real - - Bush and his war mongering minions are NOT sitting idly by, even tho our wonderous MSM would have us thinking they are.

And PLEASE, anyone who thinks that the credibility challenged ho who calls herself Sec'y of State is going to 'fix' this is nuts. She is just going to make things a LOT worse. Maybe she should just stay home and feed grapes to King George.

[Odin2005]

75. He's a fundie nut, so of course he is.

His sect of Shia Islam says that some holy man who disapeared in the 900's is going to come back and save them.