Latest targets of air blitz: milk and medicine

[Junkdrawer]

BEIRUT: Israel switched gears in its military campaign against Lebanon Monday and Tuesday, launching a series of debilitating air strikes against privately owned factories throughout the country and dealing a devastating blow to an economy already paralyzed by a week of hits on residential areas and crucial infrastructure.

The production facilities of at least five companies in key industrial sectors - including the country's largest dairy farm, Liban Lait; a paper mill; a packaging firm and a pharmaceutical plant - have been disabled or completely destroyed. Industry insiders say the losses will cripple the economy for decades to come.

"I think the picture will be much worse than we can possible imagine when the whole thing ends, but the direct damage from yesterday's attacks to the industrial sector alone will take years to recover from," said Wajid al-Bisri, the vice-president of the Lebanese Association of Industrialists (LAI).

....

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=74078

[rodeodance]

1. my gawd!!---and Bush says one more week of this!

[saigon68]

135. lots of love on this thread

[Redstone]

2. Well, then, maybe they shouldn't have turned over half of their country

to terrorists who have fired over a thousand rockets into Israel without retaliation (until now).

So, I guess the US would be innocent if we turned over San Diego County to people who shot rockets into Mexico for six years?

Redstone

[Junkdrawer]

4. Thank GOD they got the cows. Imagine the damage a herd...

of rampaging dairy cows could do if unleashed in Tel Aviv!

[NickB79]

93. Non-kosher cows of mass destruction!

Oh the humanity!

[MGD]

5. Lebanon should have abided by UN resolution 1559.

What a tragic mistake on their part.

[AnOhioan]

9. And Israel should have abided by UN resoltions affecting them.

Lets face reality....there is plenty of fault to go around here. Quite alot of which rests on the chimps shoulders.

[IndianaGreen]

17. Israel should have abided by UN Resolution 242

and returned all Occupied lands in 1967.

[MGD]

36. UN Res. 242 did not call for the return of all occupied lands

and it has little to do with the current state of affairs. Too much has happened since its adoption for it to remain relevent and; what's more, 1559 is the resolution that would have prevented lebanon from being attacked like this.

[IndianaGreen]

38. Hypocritical of a country that has made a mockery of international law

to suddenly embrace it as a cover for a war of genocide in Lebanon. Believe me, destroying hospitals and food and water supplies of a population is genocide!

[MGD]

43. Genocide? I think that's a bit overboard

Obviously Israel is showing Lebanon the futility of resistance. Lebanon can end this madness at any time by disbanding Hezbollah and; as such, if they suffer a genocide, it will be at the hands of Hezbollah and its supporters, not Israel. Lebanon has the power to end this.

[IndianaGreen]

44. How can Lebanon disband Hezbollah when Israel is bombing its army?

If Israel were telling the truth about wanting the Lebanese to take control from Hezbollah, why would Israel then bomb several Lebanese army bases? The only logical explanation is that Israel is lying, and has been lying all along, and the real strategy is to destroy Lebanese society in the same way the Americans have destroyed Iraqi society.

CNN's Martin Fletcher, who is Jewish, said that Israel has been planning to attack Lebanon for 5 years!

[MGD]

46. It should be obvious to Lebanon

that they are being destroyed and they only have two choices: 1.) be destroyed or 2.) bend knee to Israel and acquiesce to their demands utterly. It appears that the Lebanese are allowing their pride to interfere with their common sense and; as such, they're going to be destroyed. Israel will solve this problem one way or the other and one's just as good as the other to them. You and I can hurl words back and forth all night long but it won't change the simple truth that this is happening and it will continue to happen until Israel is satisfied. I wouldn't be at all surprised that, given "room to run" they will completely destroy Lebanon's ability to resist and then move on to Syria. After Syria, Iran is within range.

[IndianaGreen]

47. Mussolini felt the same way about Ethiopia when he invaded that country

Such a fine company Israel keeps!

[MGD]

52. There is no comparison whatsoever at all between these two events

and you know it. For example, Israel is not using chemical weapons against the Lebanese nor are they using flame throwers nor are they impaling people on spikes nor are they throwing people out of airplanes nor are they torturing people. What's more Lebanon has the power to end this war by publicly surrendering to Israel unconditionally (Ethiopia had no such option incidentally). But, so long as rockets continue to fly out of Lebanon into Israel, this war will continue until Lebanon is completely destroyed and Syria is within view.

[IndianaGreen]

53. "Lebanon has the power to end this war by publicly surrendering to Israel"

Lebanon has the power to end this war by publicly surrendering to Israel unconditionally

The surrender will be followed by Israel's occupation of Lebanon and by the installation of a Lebanese version of Marshall Petain. What a wonderful scenario you have painted for all of us to see!

this war will continue until Lebanon is completely destroyed and Syria is within view

I hope that you put your money where your mouth is, and proceed immediately to the nearest Army recruiting station. The consequences to America, and our military, for the scenario you described should be shared by all those that advocated it, including you.

BTW, I hope I live long enough to see the people responsible for this Middle East FUBAR of a conflict swinging at the end of a rope after they are convicted of crimes against humanity.

[TheMirrorMan]

96. "I hope that you put your money where your mouth is"

"and proceed immediately to the nearest Army recruiting station"

Just curious, what are you advocating, and are you willing to put your money where your mouth is?

Logically speaking, whenever you use an argument like this, be prepared to be painted a hypocrite.

[MGD]

98. Man,

"and proceed immediately to the nearest Army recruiting station"

I already served in the infantry for 8 years. I've paid my military dues.

"Just curious, what are you advocating"

I don't think I'm advocating anything other than Israel's right to defend herself.

"are you willing to put your money where your mouth is?"

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[TheMirrorMan]

101. uh

I wasn't talking to you. Sorry for the confusion.

[martymar64]

112. No, you just advocated genocide.

By your own words. Shame on you and your family.

[springhill]

117. No you aren't.........

You're advocating destruction of a country plain and simple. The killing of as many civilians as it takes? Man, when I read post like this on Democratic Underground, it doesn't surprise me at all that the world is in the shape it is in. It kind of makes you lose hope in mankind utterly and completely. So very sad.

[ThomCat]

124. No. You're advocating Israel's right to occupy Lebanon,

destroy their industrial base, destroy their public infrastructure, and ultimately destroy their country. That is not defense.

It is funny that everyone always talks about Israel defending herself, but
1. Israel is the only country occupying other people's land
2. Israel is the country killing more civilians than any other
3. Israel is the only country stealing water access from other countries
4. Israel is the only country targetting vital public infrastructure


I'm Jewish, and my SO was born and raised in Israel. I fully support Israel's right to defend herself. But this is not defense. Israel has become a terrorist nation. Israel is the aggressor.

[Mojorabbit]

58. Actually I just saw pics on a blog

and it does look like they are using chemical weapons.It was on a du post.
edited because the word does does not have an f in it.

[MGD]

78. Excuse me if I don't believe that for a second nt

[IndianaGreen]

118. Why, because it wasn't on Fox News?

You are giving ostriches a bad name.

[TommyO]

64. In other words

roll over and submit to Israel's demands without question. That sounds a lot like neocon logic for Iraq.

[MGD]

82. Well, their other option is to keep fighting

It isn't neo-con logic, it's military logic. Because there does not appear to be support for UN intervention at this time, Lebanon is left with a serious lack of options. They can surrender to Israel's demands or continue to suffer Israeli bombardment. They may also also appeal to their neighbors for more direct support. They may also try to wait it out until the world intervenes. Do you see any other options for them?

[theHandpuppet]

88. You should get a job working for the Bushreich.

You'd fit right in.

"It should be obvious to Lebanon that they are being destroyed and they only have two choices: 1.) be destroyed or 2.) bend knee to Israel and acquiesce to their demands utterly."

It's a sorry day when I read things like this on DU.

[MGD]

95. They wouldn't like me anymore than you do.

"It's a sorry day when I read things like this on DU."

It's a sorry day when partisanship politics trumps reality based discourse. Lebanon's options are limited and they become more limited with each passing day. This is reality. I didn't make it this way.

[theHandpuppet]

99. You call that hate-filled screed "reality based discourse"?

I don't dislike you, I pity you. My mother's family barely escaped Germany as the last to board a boat of refugees, but if you want to call my dismay at your intractable hate "partisanship politics" then you make it clear there will be no venue for rational discussion between us. Yes, it is sad, because in your words I espy the mirror reflection of what you supposedly most despise.

Thinking perhaps this alone was a taboo subject I should not broach with you (and not wanting to assume your opinions of the current conflict reflect your views in a broader sense) I did a search for your posts on international affairs and frankly, I found that I'd probably have a better chance of an objective debate with a copy of The Weekly Standard. And therein lies the sad reality of it all - it is intractable extremism which can only lead to a never-ending conflict in the Middle East and that position is held by more than just one side in this conflict.

[MGD]

104. Hate filled screed?

I don't really hate anybody. I don't know where you came to such a conclusion. Perhaps you could quote some of my hate filled screed?

Furthermore, I wasn't aware that I had posted anything in any place called "international affairs". What are you talking about?

"if you want to call my dismay at your intractable hate "partisanship politics" then you make it clear there will be no venue for rational discussion between us"

In my experience, there is no rational discourse in this ME matter, only highly charged emotionaly based tirades that support one view or the other. My moral compass, which occasionaly shoots an unpopular azimuth, points to Israel in this matter.

[theHandpuppet]

106. I already quoted you, MGD

I won't keep repeating your words as I find their sentiments abhorrent and truly do not wish to revisit them.

Further, I wasn't speaking of "international affairs" as a place or particular forum, but as a topic of discussion on DU.

Lastly -- and despite what you may believe -- there are any number of DUers willing to engage in rational discourse in this matter and are quite capable of more than "emotionally based tirades". Your own generalizations contribute nothing to fostering an atmosphere of cogent or rational discourse so the charge is a bit disingenuous.

If you wish to read some of my own opinions on the current conflict, may I offer some links?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/theHandpuppet/39
or http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1671238

And here is a poster on GD forum who currently wishes to engage in some objective and informative discussion:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1673249&mesg_id=1673249

Good day to you and may you find a discussion more to your liking.

[ThomCat]

125. When did you start posting reality based discourse?

And where can we find it?

[martymar64]

110. You sound just like Der Fuhrer

Ironic isn't it?

[eridani]

123. Right. Like Poland and Hitler. n/t

[KaptBunnyPants]

67. Actually, you have a point. This is clearly a case of ethnic cleansing.

ethnic cleansing
The systematic elimination of an ethnic group or groups from a region or society, as by deportation, forced emigration, or genocide.

genocide
the systematic killing of all the people from a national, ethnic, or religious group, or an attempt to do this

Israel is not trying to kill all arabs, just make life unbearable for any that live within striking distance. What other impulse could drive this? The Lebanese government lacks the military capacity to take on Hezbollah, and Israel is attacking the Lebanese people and the already crippled infastructure. Of course, given how you've nearly wet yourself at the prospect of Israel invading Syria and Iran, I doubt you would even care about genocide, except in so far as that affects your ability to win a political argument.

[MGD]

80. It's notethnic cleansing either; It's a war period.

"Israel is not trying to kill all arabs, just make life unbearable for any that live within striking distance."

Israel is just trying to survive in a region that despises its existence. They are defending themselves against religious fanatics dedicated to their destruction. They are making it obvious to the powers that be that continued aggression against them carries a painful price.

"What other impulse could drive this?"

Self-defense. Israel was behind the blue line when this started. Israel was reacting to Hezbollah aggression which is, by proxy, the same as Iranian and Syrian aggression. The Lebanese are pawns of the aforementioned forces but, if recent events are any indication of their loyalties, it appears that they have chosen sides with Hezbollah in this conflict and, as such, that they have chosen sides with Iran and Syria.

"Of course, given how you've nearly wet yourself at the prospect of Israel invading Syria and Iran, I doubt you would even care about genocide, except in so far as that affects your ability to win a political argument."

There's no need to make this personal. I do not forsee Israel perpetrating genocide or ethnic cleansing in this matter and I do not consider ethnic cleansing to be occuring now as you have suggested. I saw what ethnic cleansing is in Bosnia. This is not the same thing, not by a long shot. And, finally, I don't look at it as a political argument; I look at it as an exchange of ideas that leaves me closer to a deeper truth or, at the very least, to a better understanding of reality.

[bunyip]

120. MGD

Did your rules of engagement include attacking factories producing food?

How about civilian airports?

Ambulances?

I saw what ethnic cleansing is in Bosnia

Then you recognize what is happening in the West Bank.

At the time, did you approve or disapprove of the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia?

[ThomCat]

126. I don't think you'd be willing to see ethinic cleansing

until well after it's over. And then you'd be the first to start making excuses for why it was necessary.

Hell, you're already making excuses for it.

Israel is not "just" trying to survive. Israel is trying to take to build a buffer zone outside of her borders in which they have complete control. Israel is trying to monopolize water access in the region. Israel is trying to expand beyond her borders though settlements and military force. Actual defense is a very small part of what Israel is doing.

[Tight_rope]

84. OVERBOARD is the perfect word for what Israel has/is doing!

First killing innocent civilians, while bombing their neighbors and now destroying where they work, the food they eat. No matter what is said. Two wrongs don't make it right.

[Sapere aude]

107. I hold a gun to your head and promise to shoot, it's your fault if I do?

That makes a lot of sense.

[Bretttido]

83. More precisely, those are considered crimes against humanity by GenevaConv

[bunyip]

121. Israel

is the only country in among the 192 members of the UN not to have signed all the Geneva Conventions. Israel is not prohibited from attacking refugees or destroying medicine factories. Its not illegal, for Israel.

I guess the Fourth Geneva Convention would cramp their style.

[martymar64]

109. They remained in the West Bank so they could steal it for good.

Didn't Ben-gurion say "Nile to the Euphrates"?

[Andromeda]

136. And Hezbollah should have

abided by UN Resolution 1559 and disarmed.

[Laotra]

60. 1559

Is not in accordance with the UN Charter as it does not respect the sovereignity of Lebanese governement. 1559 is UNSC fuckwits dictating sovereign nation how to live inside it's borders. More over, UN has no right to give Sheba farms to Israel, they are originally Syrian land, given to Lebanon by Syria, violating the sovereignity of both states.

[MGD]

77. If that is the case, I hope I never hear you complain

about Israel's noncompliance with UN Resolutions.

[Laotra]

91. Why?

Unlike 1559, which Lebanese Governement did not ask for but which US imposed, 242 is about international dispute, solving of which is the raison d'etre for UN and SC.

The fact that US and other powers are able to abuse UN authority to serve their imperialistic purposes against the letter and spirit of the UN Charter is nothing new. It's called realpolitik.

Unlike politicians and media whores, we ordinary citizens are still allowed to think critically and factually with our own brains, I hope? Or am I wrong just because "everybody else is saying..."?

[MGD]

97. Did Israel ask for UNSCR 242?

or for resolutions 250, 251, 252, 271, 476, 673, or any of the other nearly 450 resolutions passed by the UN general assembly condemning/hindering/punishing Israel in one way or the other?

"The fact that US and other powers are able to abuse UN authority to serve their imperialistic purposes against the letter and spirit of the UN Charter is nothing new."

The fact that over 60% of the UN's resolutions have condemned Israel should be proof enough that America does not hold the kind of sway over the UN that you suggest. Incidentally, as far as the spirit of the UN charter goes, it was destroyed when Kurt Waldheim, a former Nazi storm trooper officer was elected as Sec. General in 1973.

"Unlike politicians and media whores, we ordinary citizens are still allowed to think critically and factually with our own brains, I hope? Or am I wrong just because "everybody else is saying..."?"

It appears, judging from the glowing responses that I have incurred, that we are indeed free to think freely in this matter so long as we condemn Israel.

[Laotra]

100. Which part

of the distinction between international dispute and internal matter of sovereign state do you not understand? I didn't write the Charter, I just read it.

[The Stranger]

66. You are openly supporting the murder of innocent people.

On a progressive web site, that is a mistake on your part.

[MGD]

85. You are supporting the murder of Jews

by taking a position that denies them the right to defend themselves against Arab/Persian hostility. What's more, the Democratic party largely supports Israel in this matter as evidenced by the pending bi-partisan resolution of support for Israel.

[The Stranger]

86. Oh bullshit.

300 innocents have died as a result of the IDF. If they are "targetting Hezbollah," why have they killed two "Hezbollah guerillas" out of 200 total they had killed as of yesterday?

[ThomCat]

127. Bullshit x2

If Israel is only defending themselves then why are they blowing up furniture factories, dairy farms, pharmacutical plants and hospitals? Israel isn't even pretending that there were any terrorists in any of those locations. They're just bombing the hell out of critical infrastrucure to bring down the entire population.

[lumpy]

137. Do you think this apologist

for Israel really gives a damn about the destruction of innocent lives? Oh right, he doesn't give a damn. A thousand eyes for an eye.

[rooboy]

142. And the jews should have left Germany. What a tragic mistake. n/t

[AnOhioan]

6. Your analogy is getting old

as well as being nonsensical.

The Israeli gov't has gone beyond attacking Hezballah....they have declared war on the Lebanese people.

But it's all ok right? They are just "defending themselves".

[Redstone]

11. Yes, defending themselves. As we did in Afghanistan.

And if you're going to tell me we should have NOT gone after the Taliban, I think it'll be time to cease any interaction with you.

Redstone

[IndianaGreen]

15. Women are not better off in Afghanistan now than they were under Taliban

Bush's puppet Karzai has even resurrected the infamous Ministry of Morals that the Taliban used to impose their extremist theology.

[Bridget Burke]

63. I didn't think the invasion of Afghanistan was a good idea.

There seemed to be a better way of getting Osama. And I suspected larger motives--having to do with global economics.

But I had no love for the Taliban & hoped that women's lot might improve as a result of the invasion. Result? No Osama. Definite "business' motives were revealed. Women are not better off.

And the invasion has turned into an occupation.

[AnOhioan]

16. I think we invaded Afghanistan for other reasons than 9-11

YOu want to cease interaction...be my guest. I am getting mighty tired of the folks here who ignore the suffering of civilians, whever their nationality.

[lumpy]

133. The invasion of Afghanistan was for

the purpose of getting Bin Laden/Al Queda who supposedly perpetrated the Twin Towers disaster. A country already wracked by war was mercilessly bombarded by US bombs. Bush vowed to capture Bin Laden, never happened. Afghans are still suffering. Great job George bad move.

[liberalhistorian]

21. Oh, horseshit, and you can forget the

ridiculous analogies. A couple of rogue Hezbollah members capturing (and it's CAPTURING, btw, and NOT "kidnapping) two Israeli soldiers does NOT justify destroying an entire nation and making them all suffer, and does NOT justify the targeting and destruction of civilian areas and manufacture of food and other critical supplies. Israel was NOT attacked by Lebanon or Gaza, this is just an excuse for the IDF to do what it's wanted to do all along.

[Redstone]

28. "Rogue Hezbollah members?" That's fucking hilarious.

If they were "rogue members" with no brief from their superiors, don't you think that the upper ranks of Hezbollah would have denied responsibility for their actions, and save themselves the asskicking they're getting now?

Pleas, I'd be eternally grateful if you could cite some source, any source, that credibly identifies them as "rogue members."

Redstone

[The Stranger]

76. Stop avoiding the issue of killing of innocent Lebanese civilians.

Who are NOT HEZBOLLAH.

[ThomCat]

130. You are missing the point.

Israel is using vastly disproportionate force. They're using it predominantly against civilians and vital civilian infrastructure. That is not defense.

[JackNewtown]

31. Did we target milk factories in Afghanistan?

Or tissue factories, gas stations, bridges, etc.

[Lilith Velkor]

59. We did in Iraq

They looked at us funny or something

[shadowknows69]

40. hear hear

n/t

[6000eliot]

54. And don't forget the innocent civilians killed by Israel that set the

whole cycle off again. How anyone can buy Israel's innocent self defense horse shit is beyond me. The whole thing just makes me sick.

[Lorien]

56. I agree. The US has a hand in setting the precedent for such actions

America attacked a nation "defending freedom" from 11 dead nutjobs with boxcutters, none of whom had anything at all to do with Iraq. bin Laden is long gone from Afghanistan, but we still continue the occupation there, making the Caspian sea pipeline safe for Unical, just as we're making price controls on oil and petrol dollars "safe" in Iraq by putting them both squarely in the hands of American oil executives and their puppets. What a handful of Hezbollah extremists have done isn't justifiable, but bombing innocent civilians and taking away their means of survival is just as far from moral.An eye for and eye makes the whole world blind.

[lumpy]

134. Weren't the Israelis captured on Lebanon

soil? And wasn't the planning of bombarding Lebanon in the works for some time?

[JackNewtown]

27. Factories???

I support Israel destroying Hezbollah but what Israel is now doing is an all-out war on the Lebanese people and a savage assault on Lebanon's infracstructure and economy.

[Bridget Burke]

62. Last I heard, the Taliban was getting it back together.

And we never did get Osama. That was the reason we attacked Afghanistan, wasn't it?

[The Stranger]

75. Wrong, the U.S. attacked the Taliban -- not innocents in Kabul.

[springhill]

119. Wow!!!!!!!!

You actually think we attacked Afghanistan because of Bin Laden and the Taliban? You should know by now that nothing with this administration is as it seems. You probably think Iraq still has WMD's.

[ThomCat]

128. I think we shouldn't have gone after the Taliban.

We should have been in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, if anywhere. Afganistan was a fiasco, and we went in there primarily to install someone who would put in an oil pipeline. The Taliban could easily have been handled through economic and diplomatic means, like we do with similarly dogmatic governments everywhere else in the world.

[Nevernose]

18. Seriously, what were the Lebanese supposed to do?

And, as you have hopefully noticed, Redstone, I've been one of the seeming few supporting Israel, or at least giving them their due.

But seriously: Hezbollah controls half the country. Schools, churches, roads, government, EVERYTHING. Not to mention that Hezbollah outnumber the brand-new Lebanese army (whose loyalty is tenous at best).

The Lebanese COULD have at least sealed the border, granted.

I think Israel striking at Hezbollah targets is justified. Perhaps not the RIGHT thing to do, but maybe justified.

(And I'd like to see some independant confirmation of the deliberate bombing of non-Hezbollah-controlled dairy farms and the like before passing judgement)

[Redstone]

26. Some confirmation would be nice. And it's amazing to me how

may people here will piss and moan about what Israel is doing, and conveniently ignore the fact that their dear Hezbollah Freedom Fighters are continuing to blindly fire unguided missiles into cities.

Those would be cities full of civilians, by the way.

But I guess that's OK, because they're Freedom Fighters.

Redstone

[Purveyor]

32. Without a doubt Faux Knews will check in shortly to give us the

"real story", eh?

[Redstone]

33. And it will be Fair. Also Balanced. As usual.

Redstone

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

92. Are you serious? -nt

[Redstone]

114. Or course not! You should know me better than that.

Redstone

[Nevernose]

37. I never said ANY of that, & what is "confirmation"

I wasn't ignoring anything, I never forgot about the Israeli civilians, I said I wanted verification before I took it as faith that the Israelis were wantonly destroying dairy farms with no justification, and I certainly NEVER called Hezbollah "freedom fighters."

But the way I see it, the Lebanese army and government have very little control over what Hezbollah does. The Lebanese government may as well be Karzai gov't in Afghanistan: you know, the Mayor of Kabul?

Israel could have at least thought more strategically, working through diplomatic channels to crack down on the importation of missiles to Hezbollah from Syria and Iraq (something more popular today, even inculding worldwide opinion), than ever before, and worked to convince the fledgling Lebanese government to seal the borders more tightly.

The tinfoil hat part of my brain, btw, wants to say that Israel has finally recognized the need for an international peacekeeping force in the area, and hoped that THAT would be the response from the int'nstionsl community after a while. Personally, I'd be good with that.

[Tesha]

69. Be sure you don't accidentally post the respective civilian death tolls.

> And it's amazing to me how may people here will piss and
> moan about what Israel is doing, and conveniently ignore
> the fact that their dear Hezbollah Freedom Fighters are
> continuing to blindly fire unguided missiles into cities.
>
> Those would be cities full of civilians, by the way.

Be sure you don't accidentally post the respective civilian
death tolls; they wouldn't be supportive of your case.

Tesha

[liberalhistorian]

71. Since when does expressing sympathy

and concern for the Lebanese and Palestinians in Gaza equate to supporting Hezbollah fighters? There's that "all or nothing, you're either with us or against us" bullshit that Dimson is so good at. And expressions of concern and sympathy for Lebanese/Palestinians does not mean that there's no concern or sympathy for Israeli victims. I guess Israeli victims are far more valuable to you.

[lumpy]

139. Some of us here cannot forget the Israeli

treatment of Palestinians. And now the unholy bombardment of Lebanon is just too damn much. Hard to drum up much sympathy for a nation that is far superior in military strength and relentless in destruction of life and livelihood because two troops were taken prisoner on Lebanese soil. Sad that Israel has enemies of the same regional background.

[PaulaFarrell]

143. "without retaliation"

except for :

Dec,2005, Israeli planes attack in Lebanon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4563372.stm

Nov, 2005 Israeli jets attack south Lebanon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4459500.stm

June, 2004 Israeli jets hit deep in Lebanon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3785305.stm

May, 2004 Israeli jets strike south Lebanon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/3686949.stm

Jan, 2004 Israeli jets hit Lebanon targets
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3414431.stm

Sep, 2003 Israeli jets fire on Lebanon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3079072.stm

Aug, 2003 Israelis retaliate in south Lebanon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3139243.stm

[mazzarro]

3. THIS IS WAR CRIME - PERIOD! (n/t)

[IndianaGreen]

7. 'Lebanon crisis an international conspiracy'

Let's try to understand what's at play here:

'Lebanon crisis an international conspiracy'

By Firas Al-Atraqchi

Tuesday 18 July 2006, 20:49 Makka Time, 17:49 GMT

This particular conflict, and Israel's act of aggression on Lebanon, did not take place in a vacuum, and Israel did not act in some spontaneous fashion.

Hezbollah did not surprise Israel with the capture of the two Israeli occupation soldiers. Hezbollah leader Hasan Nasrallah has repeatedly warned that if Israel does not release its Lebanese prisoners, he will be compelled to take Israeli soldiers as bargaining chips.

And Israel has not been sitting idly by since its partial withdrawal from South Lebanon in 2000. It has not only continued to occupy parts of South Lebanon, but also has been violating Lebanese sovereignty, by air, sea, and land.

Israel has also been kidnapping innocent Lebanese citizens: fishermen and shepherds. And one fisherman from Tyre - my hometown - is still missing, and at least one shepherd was killed last year.

Furthermore, Israel has adamantly refused to give to Lebanon a map of the more than 400,000 land mines that it left behind in South Lebanon, and which continue to kill Lebanese children in the region.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D259C343-ED88-4C43-B839-BCEFBED61924.htm

[Redstone]

12. Yeah, yeah, sure.

Redtone

[IndianaGreen]

13. Why is Israel bombing the Lebanese army?

If Israel were telling the truth about wanting the Lebanese to take control from Hezbollah, why would Israel then bomb several Lebanese army bases? The only logical explanation is that Israel is lying, and has been lying all along, and the real strategy is to destroy Lebanese society in the same way the Americans have destroyed Iraqi society.

[Igel]

68. That's a good question.

Asked a lot. Seldom answered. In fact, to my knowledge there's only been one real substantive hint at an answer.

It involves the Israeli fighter that was shot down, but which was later asserted to be a fuel tank dropped by an Israeli jet. But which the IAF said was a missile carrier that was hit, with the missile taking flight for a moment before crashing. That was almost all the news. Apparently there was a nifty, although ambiguous, bit of video.

But the IAF report contained a bit of info which can't possibly be considered news. The report said they'd followed the truck, and targeted it when it stopped in a good strike position. Outside the gates of a Lebanese Army camp. The reason it can't be news is obvious.

It's unknown if the truck driver was simply waiting to enter, or if the Lebanese Army denied the missile entrance. But it seems stupid for Hezbollah to haul a missile in the open to an army base without some expectation that it would find a temporary home there. Assuming, of course, that the report is true.

[gula]

14. WTF is wrong with you people

that you cannot accept that Israel is not always right. What they are doing now is WAY beyond reasonable.

BTW, don't bother to give me the anti-semite line. By now, it sounds too much like the story about the boy who cried wolf.

[ThomCat]

131. Is that a factual rebutal

or are you admitting that you don't really care about what's really going on?

I know it's so much easier to give into the mythology and dogma (Israel good, everyone else bad) and stop all critical thinking.

[Andromeda]

138. Right, IG....

Aljazerra is a real unbiased source. No lies there! :sarcasm:

[lumpy]

140. Typical Al Jazeera bashing.

I venture to say they know more about what is going on than any of us. Are you aware that most reports from Al Jazeera comes from Western observers who are educated in regional events and political moves.

[leftchick]

8. condi , bush and bolton have given the green light

to wholesale slaughter with a US stamp on it! Fuck them all!

:(

[Purveyor]

10. It is impossible not to hate the israelis after this, imho...

There is no justification for this, none, zero, nadda!!!

[AnOhioan]

19. Don't hate the Israeli people, hate their gov't.

[Junkdrawer]

23. Likud and Big Oil Republicans are both a form of political cancer....

Once in power, they can cause events that keep them in power - regardless of the cost in lives on both sides.

[IndianaGreen]

39. Actually it is Kadima with their Labour Party allies

For once, Likud is totally innocent!

[JackNewtown]

41. Likud vs. the Democratic Party

What is the difference between Likud when Likud is in power and the Democratic Party's position on Israel? I did not follow the conflict closely when Likud was in power.

[IndianaGreen]

42. The difference, and it is a big difference, is that the Democrats cared

enough to remain engaged in the Middle East peace process. Bush went AWOL in January 2001 and has never put any effort to bring the parties to the peace table, except for one very brief photo op in Egypt.

[JackNewtown]

49. True nt

[liberalhistorian]

24. Well, that's true, but many of the people saying

that are the same ones who broad brush ALL Palestinians, Lebanese, etc., and blame civilians as well, not just the government and leaders. Double standard extraordinaire.

[AnOhioan]

25. Not I, of that I assure you.

[ShortnFiery]

89. As logic goes, don't hate Hezbollah, hate their militant branch

who defaults to solving international problems with violence.

NO ONE ORGANIZATION IS EITHER "ALL EVIL" OR "ALL GOOD."

[AnOhioan]

116. The Israeli gov't can be VERY wrong.

I do not stand with their actions. But Hezbollah is a terrorist organization that does kill civilians. I know they supposedly also provide some services to the Lebanese people in the area they control, but that does not excuse the deaths. Just as the Israeli gov't cannot be excused for the deaths they cause.

I abhor Hezbollah and I despise the Israeli gov't...good enough to pass muster?

[Psephos]

45. Something tells me you may have hated them before this, too

Just sayin'...

Peace.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

61. Indeed.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VegasWolf]

22. Israel and its US backers will pay the price for the wanton destruction

of innocent civilians. We're breeding terrorists faster than a nuclear reactor thanks to Bush and his faux colonialism.

[Spazito]

29. Apalling, completely apalling...

Where in the hell does this fit with "hitting targeted Hezbollah strongholds" as Israel has claimed they are doing????

There is no, no rationale for this except the deliberate distruction of Lebanon.

[JackNewtown]

30. My eyes are welling up. How can the USA support this??????????

[JackNewtown]

34. Will any major American leader criticize this?

Somehow I doubt anyone will, other than perhaps Senator John Warner, a freaking Republican...

[IndianaGreen]

48. Senator Warner is worried about the Shias in Iraq and their reaction

as they see America's proxy slaughter their brethren in Lebanon. If I were serving in Iraq, I would be worried too about blowback.

[JackNewtown]

50. Why isn't any other Senator?

It will be very interesting to see the final vote numbers for the Senate resolution on this...any predications on the vote?

[IndianaGreen]

51. I am sure our Senators will vote for this in the same proportion

that the Reichstag endorsed the invasion of Poland.

[saigon68]

55. lol

I'M NOT GETTING INVOLVED IN THIS THREAD

You are the only person making any sense

Its like watching deaf people yelling in a phone booth

[liberalhistorian]

72. "Deaf people yelling in a phone booth",

ROFLMAO! As someone who's hard of hearing, I can especially appreciate that image.

[mbperrin]

87. I'm not starting here either - I'm just too mouthy! BUT

thank you IndianaGreen for your usual informed, compassionate, and compelling arguments. Always a pleasure, and I'd love to follow that example. So THANK YOU for staying in against folks who think that when someone steals your lunch money, it's your own damned fault! (It is, as always, the bully thief's fault.) Whoops, I can feel that Southron mouth rising - gotta go!

[MisterP]

132. don't forget the Shiite Hazaras in the middle mountains of Afghanistan

many are fierce fighters, and are often connected with Iran. Thousands of Farsi-speaking Groundskeeper Willies will put a dent in DubDub's Eastern Iranian Front, I'd think.

[whistle]

35. Ah yes, pro-life conversative targets

[HuffleClaw]

57. TERRORIST COWS ! ! ! ! !

and paper that could be used to write TERRORIST MESSAGES ! ! ! and terrorist pills! what a horror. and again, a direct violation of the geneva conventions.

[ShortnFiery]

90. Correction:

That's Hezbollah Santioned Militant EVIL-MoooErs! ---> "Terrorist Cows" to you! :blush: :hi:

[The Stranger]

65. But obviously Israel is DEFENDING ITSELF from PAPER and MILK.

[KamaAina]

102. And not a moment too soon!

How many nasty, painful paper cuts must the innocents be expected to endure? And think if all that milk had turned sour! Raw material for enough stinkbombs to blanket whole cities with stench!

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[confludemocrat]

70. More war crimes by Israel, met with silence or unconditional support

for it by both major U.S. parties.

[bemildred]

73. Again the "blitz" comparison.

If that isn't a Freudian slip, I don't know what is.

[jonnyblitz]

74. you are making me want to change my screenname

I never associated it with nazi when i first chose it back in the 90's, it was the name of a british punk band from the 80's . :hi:

[bemildred]

79. Many people don't actually, it has passed into common usage.

But that is where it comes from, in English usage.

I am probably being too pedantic about it, but I expect news people to be sensitive about these things.

[redqueen]

81. my god...

what are they doing?

[Politicub]

94. This is the 'battered wife' air blitz

So, tell me again how destroying a dairy farm and a medicine plant hurts hezbollah?

[lovuian]

103. If Lebanon doesn't realize they are invaded then they

need a big wakeup call

Israel is looking for more oceanfront property and Syria is next...

[KamaAina]

105. Have they bombed any aspirin plants yet?

'Cause we all know that headache medicine is EE-VULL! :sarcasm:

[Barkley]

108. Wanna read something real funny?

* The U.S. Arms Export Control Act (Public Law 90-829)restricts the use of U.S. weapons to legitimate self-defense and internal policing; U.S. weapons cannot be used to attack civilians in offensive operations.

* The U.S. Foreign Assistance Act prohibits U.S. aid of any kind to a country with a pattern of gross human rights violations.

http://www.state.gov/t/

BWHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!!

[Clarkie1]

111. I am not confident of the credibility of this source. nt

[Junkdrawer]

115. Confirmed by DemocracyNow, Juan Cole, and Robert Fisk in Beruit...

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/19/1345257

http://www.juancole.com/

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/15076526.htm

[jonnyblitz]

129. based on what? a hunch, a feeling? something reality based? nt

[Barkley]

113. Yo Israel, Goliath Lost!

Reducing Lebanon to rubble and chaos is to be counter productive when it comes to fighting terrorism.

With the Syrians gone, Lebanon will emerge as a seriously fractured state.

Creating such an unstable state right next door will create a haven for terrorist to thrive.

[Voltaire99]

122. Doesn't bother Russ Feingold much.

So much for the great progressive hope.


SATURDAY, July 15, 2006, 4:29 p.m.
By Craig Gilbert
Feingold defends Israel's attack response

Platteville - U.S. Sen. Russ Feingold today defended Israel's right to protect itself amid the escalating conflict along its borders, saying, "I don't think any country is going to let their soldiers be kidnapped, transported, killed ... without a serious response."

Feingold said he would not second-guess "whether that response was exactly as it should be."

Said Feingold: "My hope would be that Israel would use as much restraint as possible .... It's in Israel's interest and the interests of peace. But I do think Israel has not only a right but also a responsibility to respond to the Hezbollah attack."

http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=7/15/2006&i...

[lumpy]

141. Evidently Finegold approves of

using diplomatic means to solve Mideast problems...NOT. He just can't help taking sides apparently. Not my kind of presidential material.