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Canada's Harper diverts (own) plane to pick up evacuees (from Cyprus)

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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 06:39 PM
Original message
Canada's Harper diverts (own) plane to pick up evacuees (from Cyprus)
PARIS, July 19 (Reuters) - Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper ordered his official plane to be diverted to Cyprus on Wednesday to pick up Canadians fleeing Israeli air strikes in Lebanon.

Harper was already in Europe at the end of a week-long official three-country tour and decided to divert the Canadian Forces Airbus he was flying in to take as many citizens as he could before returning to Canada.

(snip)

He expects to pick up 100 to 120 people of about 350 that his spokeswoman said were boarding a vessel in Lebanon for an overnight journey to Cyprus.

Those from that ship who could not fit on Harper's plane would fly on another plane the Canadian government was chartering. Canada has chartered six other vessels as well.

Spokeswoman Sandra Buckler estimated Canada had 40,000 to 50,000 people in Lebanon, possibly the largest contingent of any western nation, and Harper said Canadian officials were working around the clock on evacuation plans.

more...
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N19241855.htm
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not Bush... He Wants People to Pay Their Own Way
oh... until his people were shamed into making exceptions, but of course.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
37. Bush has a schedule to keep
he's a stickler for it

ST. PETERSBURG, Russia - It wasn't meant to be overheard. Private luncheon conversations among world leaders, picked up by a microphone, provided a rare window into both banter and substance — including President Bush cursing Hezbollah's attacks against Israel.

***

Bush expresses amazement that it will take some leaders as many as eight hours to fly home — about the same time it will take Air Force One with Bush aboard to return to Washington.

"You eight hours? Me, too. Russia's a big country and you're a big country," Bush said, at one point telling a waiter he wanted Diet Coke. "Takes him eight hours to fly home. Russia's big and so is China. Yeah Blair, what're you doing? Are you leaving."

***

Bush, a stickler for keeping to his schedule, could also be heard telling Putin, "We've got to keep this thing moving. I have to leave at 2:15. They want me out of town so to free up your security forces."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060717/ap_on_go_pr_wh/g8_summit_bush_overheard


Can't expect him to be bothered with the little people. He's got a bill to veto.
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glarius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
43. THIS IS A PHOTO-OP BULLSHIT OPPORTUNITY FOR HARPER!
Believe me...don't be taken in by the phony story that he is the great humanitarian. He kicked all the Canadian press people off the plane "to make more room" but is bringing along his official photographer!...I wonder why?....He and his new government have been SO CRITICIZED at home that he came up with this scheme to try to make himself look better. I hope to hell the people greet him with boos when he gets there.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #43
79. I Know It Is
I just felt it was a perfect opening to make a statement about dumya.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. I hate to have to say this
I just felt it was a perfect opening to make a statement about dumya.

But you might want to know how it grates on some of us out here beyond the borders of the US, when just about anything about our reality that is offered for discussion here is turned into an opportunity to make a statement about some aspect of the US.

I think it actually grates on some people here who are in the US, too.

I know, the apparent contrast here was kinda too hard to avoid and resist ... but in reality, when we look at the domestic reality that isn't US domestic reality (as was then done in this thread), that contrast doesn't actually exist in quite the same way as things might have seemed at first glance.

Harper is different from Bush; I am not of the Harper=Bush chorus. But at the same time, Harper is different from decent. Just in a different way. ;)





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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #81
84. I Don't Care for Either One
sorry if you feel "grated".
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Now that is a classy move
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
33. It's not classy. It's a photo-op.
Once in Cyprus, the evacuees are safe. They don't need The Great Leader to personally escort a hundred of them home.

Oh, and his wife and an official photographer are included in the "skeleton crew". All the reporters were kicked off. Come to think of it, what honest purpose does Harper's presence serve?

Sorry, I don't see any class in there at all.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
53. Gotta agree with tuvor - Not a classy move at all
The more I hear about it the more this stinks. Aside from the obvious photo-op and propaganda value, some of those people he's picking up are furious with the government's slow response or non-response to their requests.

It was hinted this morning on CBC that this won't be such a pleasant experience for the Prime Minister.

I hope someone does give him an earful right in front of the cameras.
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. It doesn't seem as though he's stepping out of the plane.
That's what I heard on CBC Radio just now.

Looks like only the official-photographer contingent of his "skeleton staff" will be there to record anything firsthand.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #53
78. It is still
light years ahead of Bush and he does have contact with the people he is screwing over.

I would say it works as a classy photo op because the bar set by Bush is lower than the NOLA floodline.

How long will Canadians tolerate Harper doing Bush's bidding at no benefit or interest to the Canadian people? It seems it is sinking in to provoke this "heroic gesture".

Will Harper fly out the soliders when Bush asks for help in taking another Poland?
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. Better than the worst case?
That's high praise indeed!

We don't put up with conservative a-holes for too long here in Canada. If they misbehave, we send them out of office and destroy their parties (See Mulroney, Brian)
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. can we swear him in as temporary US president
we seem to have a vacancy; a texan has moved in w/o winning a verifiable election, claims
squatters rights in the White House
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
27. He's a Neocon in training. I don't think we want him.
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SensibleAmerican Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. Lord God, no
n/t
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
38. Take him. Please.
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Bassic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
54. It's just a photo op,
This guy is in the same league as Bush, except he's probably smarter.
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #54
67. well, in that case you can keep him.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. LOL, too late! We aren't taking him back!!! rofl
Or, how about, we take both bush and the bush wannabe and put them on a desert island and they can tell each other how great they are while harming no one. I am willing to negotiate.
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. It's a deal if we can put Cheney there as well
they could even make it a reality show something like battle of the presidents
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. LOL, love it, it's a deal!
Love it when we can negotiate cross-border deals that are win/win!

:rofl:
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. Isn't this provided for under Nafta
George would love a survival challenge, he's strictly an outdoors type of guy.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. It sure as hell should be!
It seems so is our guy, get a gander at his summer BBQ outfit, NOT a photoshop, is this an outdoorsman or what!!


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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. Home, Home on the range
where I can be a lone cowboy in the middle of a global economy.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. ROFL, perfect! n/t
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #73
82. maybe one of those clauses ...

about how once we start giving you something, we can't stop.

Package deal: natural gas, hydroelectricity, fresh water, Stephen Harper.

Once Harper is over the border, you can't send him back.

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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. Hey, we'll take him and all the garbage from Vancouver
If you will take Cheney, Rove, Rummie and El Busho.
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JHH Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm not a fan of Harper but he should get credit for doing the right thing
Thats more than can be said about the US government
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. It's about time, and even a little too late for (at least) 8 Montrealers
What happened? Did he just 'realized' he's not in a real 'Dictatoring' position as his hypnotic (for him) idol, lil' king george? That he barely can keep afoot at the helms of his minority gov.??

Although I applaud his very 'late' awaking, why did he not wake up as soon as this war crime started instead of so many days later? My bet goes to: Canadians voters are just furious at his lazy sycophant a$$.

Furious, I tell ya!! :mad:
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JHH Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I believe that any Canadian leader would have done the same
Thats just how Canadians are and they like having a minority Gov.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. "Thats just how Canadians are"
True. Sadly, this makes Harper look like a Canadian. ;)

But no, it's true, he is a Canadian, he isn't Bush Jr., he's our own homegrown power-lust-mad scum. What it mainly means, in his case, I'd say, is that he knows what Canadians expect -- and we do expect this.

Bush himself utterly fails to grasp what Canadians (i.e. normal, decent people) expect, including the notion that when his military killed a few Canadians over in Afghanistan by, er, accident, Canadians expected an apology, and when Canadians fed and housed his nationals when an attack on their country leaves them stranded, we expected a thank you. So Bush earned contempt. Hopefully, Harper will simply earn recognition that he did the right thing.

So there's your difference: a Canadian knows what Canadians expect, and knows how far s/he can get away with not doing it.

Well, that's really a definition of a Liberal (as in Liberal Party), but I maintain that Harper is rapidly becoming one of them anyhow. More evidence.

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Paulie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I was listening to CBC's As It Happens
Mother with a baby who was a citizen but she was just a permeant resident, when they got to the dock, only the baby was going to be allowed on. They then interviewed a Senate member in authority that she thought it didn't matter and they both should have been left on.

I just loved the reporter Tom wouldn't just ask a question, he repeated the question until she started answering...

To her credit (and I'm sorry I don't recall her name) when she started to dissemble, she stopped herself and said she didn't know. WOW, blew my mind.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I'll have to catch Newsworld
I'd thought yesterday, looking about a thread about US evacuees, how many people who are citizens of Cda or the US must have immediate family members in Lebanon - especially aging parents - and how they'd have to be choosing to come home to Canada or stay to look after the old folks. This situation hadn't even occurred to me.

Of course it's not uncommon -- people are permanent residents (equivalent of green card holders, for our US neighbours) for at least 3 years before becoming citizens, and many would have children during that time. I have Chinese-Canadian neighbours who have never obtained Cdn citizenship, but their kids are Canadian.

It shouldn't take more than a rubber stamp to decide to allow permanent-resident parents of minor Cdn-citizen kids to be evacuated with them. Lordy. How many could there be??

This whole evacuation may be a bigger deal in Canada than the US -- there is a long-established and quite large Lebanese community here. For Montreal, the Lebanese community is the second-largest immigrant group, for instance (after Haitian):
http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/971104/d971104.htm
The Lebanese community in Ottawa, the capital, is also numerous and very well established. Statistics Canada now asks separately about Lebanese origin on census questionnaires, because of how much of the Arab-origin group it accounts for.

Ottawa-Gatineau: population 1,050,755; population reporting Lebanese ethnic origin: 21,115. Two percent, and not to be sniffed at politically.
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo27i.htm


Oh look ... Israel has apologized for killing Canadians. If only this one had been an accident.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2006/07/19/israel-apology.html

I think I speak for at least some of the family members when I say again to Israel:

Fuck you.





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laundry_queen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Somewhat OT
But not sure where in this thread to put this. Last night on CNN Larry King live, they had on a Lebanese-American woman trying to get out - she started criticizing the US effort because they wouldn't allow her husband, a Lebanese-Canadian, to come with her, but the Canadians would allow her to go with her husband.
Needless to say, she didn't get much time on air. *sigh*
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. It sounds
like there's a lot of confusion in all quarters, and policies being made and applied pretty ad hoc. Canadians were saying on the news this morning that they just weren't getting any info at all -- after milling around all day, they got sent home, while someone from the embassy there pretty much just stared at them when they asked questions. I don't think there's any country that can claim to be doing an outstanding job here, or likely even the best it could do.

In cases like your example, wouldn't it make sense for the country from which they came, in which they were residing, to take 'em back?? If a Canadian-American couple were living in Canada, let Canada take them. And mutatis mutandis for the reverse situation. You'd think it might balance out anyhow. ;)

There probably is a bit of a real problem with non-citizen permanent residents of third countries who are Lebanese citizens. The third country -- Canada, US, where they may have resided for a long time (and have family, that being the touchy political aspect) -- really has no obligation to them, and does have an obligation to its citizens whom it has to put first. But to separate spouses, and parents and babies, yikes.



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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Might be late, but compared to Bushco he's a regular Johnnie on the spot
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
48. Credit for WHAT? A Sham Photo-Op to "Save" people who by
Edited on Thu Jul-20-06 01:46 AM by TheWatcher
All technical definitions were not truly in eminent peril, as they were in a place of safety.

He took a page from the Rove playbook and nothing more.

He gets credit for being a Fake Humanitarian and Nazi-NeoCon in Waiting.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #48
55. Well, he out photo-op'd Georgie
I have to give this one to Harper. Even if it's just a photo op it's a good one.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
63. Agreed. If the consensus is that the guy is irredeemable
IMHO the best we can do is to shut up when he does the right thing. I don't fault anyone for publicizing their good deeds.

Personally, I think he's doing it because it's the Canadian thing to do.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hope he's that brave when it comes to telling the USA to go to hell
on the Softwood deal. But then..Harper likes the idea of Union.. and would be thrilled if he managed to erase any teeth NAFTA has ...so that Canadians would be forced to the table to re-negotiate..this time with UNION.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. That is inspiring.
Edited on Wed Jul-19-06 07:06 PM by Rose Siding
My embarrassment intensifies.

Edited to add: As does my ANGER at the YAHOOS who supported the JACKASS who continues to embarrass us all.
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
34. It's not inspiring. It's a photo-op.
See post #33 if you care to see why I believe so.
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Lautremont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. Then we'll see if he says one word against Israeli excess.
Hint: he won't.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ummm, don't be so quick to heap praise on him...
Edited on Wed Jul-19-06 07:36 PM by Spazito
He made sure he took along his official photographer, his communications team, his wife, it is the Canadian version of bush's "plastic turkey" photo-op. He has infuriated the populace in two provinces, Quebec and Ontario, that he NEEDS to even maintain a minority government in the next election and THAT is why he is doing this, it is as simple as that.

His concern is for his poll numbers not for the stranded Canadians and certainly has NO compassion for the Lebanese citizens under bombardment.

Edited to add:

Here is a link to his official Prime Minister, please note the date where he deigned to have ANYTHING re the current crisis versus when it happened and please also note there is STILL not one word on the death of 8 Canadians.

http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/media.asp?id=1252

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sueragingroz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. This is for show
It's a nice gesture... but Harper is playing political games.

I can bet that one of his advisors told him that he was looking bad on this issue and needed to do something to dig himself out...

I'm trying to imagine what it would be like to evacuate 50,000 people by ship only.

I'm Canadian but am living in Bermuda. There are about 68,000 people living in Bermuda.

It doesn't sound like a lot of people, but when I try and imagine evacuating them all by cruise ship, I shudder at the time it would take.

Hopefully the hurricanes will keep to the west and we won't ever have to find out...
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Exactly, the is crass PR, pure and simple
From all I am hearing it is chaotic with regard to the evacuation as one would expect given the numbers, the last thing that is needed is to have Harper fly in to Cyprus for a photo-op.

Re hurricanes and your location, I, too, hope they stay out to sea this year. Stay safe!
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. It's for show, yes, but it's still a couple hundred people out. (nt)
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Sorry, but for the thousands still left behind while Harper did NOTHING
it is contemptuous in it's blatant attempt at propaganda at the expense of those who he cared nothing about until he realized his poll numbers were going to be hit.

If he really cared, he would have sent the plane WITHOUT him and his wife, his official photographer, etc, even more would have been able to be flown out. Harper isn't the pilot of the plane nor the co-pilot, actually he, his wife and his staff are merely excess baggage.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Respectfully, as I love Canada and in particular Alberta,
This action makes Harper look like Mother Teresa compared to GWB.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I don't see how you would see it that way, it is no different than
bush's turkey stunt. If he actually cared, why didn't he send the plane without him, his wife, his official photographer, etc,? He is trying to stop the slide his previous comments and behavior will cause in his poll numbers and he is doing it on the backs of THOUSANDS OF STILL STRANDED CANADIANS.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
58. you're right, it does
This action makes Harper look like Mother Teresa compared to GWB.

It's not like the Canadian right wing is actually stupid. ;)

It makes him look that way to the outside world -- but here at home, I think most people will be like the people on my chesterfield: well duh, he'd damn well better have done that, and who does he think he's fooling?

I guess I'd say it's not that we're cynical, it's just that we recognize cynicism when we see it. And this was a cynical attempt at diverting public attention from incompetence / insouciance regarding the real problem of Canadians stranded in Lebanon.

As in the US, that's the problem that a lot of people want to focus on, rather than what created the problem. But the stranded "us" thing may actually get international attention for what's really happening ... although not if CNN and its Cdn counterparts can help it. Kind of like getting people to go to a movie about Chilean fascism and USAmerican complicity by making it about Jack Lemmon; the reality of "them" and not just us might seep through.

Harper blew it on the big picture, though, by immediately calling Israel's actions a "measured response" and refusing to back down from that. The usual ineffectual concerned-Canuck clucking would have stood him in better stead. It's the Liberal Party's feet he needs to keep learning at, on that score. How to do nothing that actually damages your real agenda and still look good. Brian Mulroney learned pretty well, until he was felled by the Liberal disease: corruption.

We really are a hard-nosed lot up here. Piety loses rather than winning points, and we can pretty much tell when it's in word only. Doing the right thing is just kinda expected. I don't see Harper gaining much from this bit of pious lip service to doing the right thing.

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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
36. Exactly. This is a guy who just asked Putin how to keep his poll #s up.
Can you blame some of us for being cynical?
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. Even a Canadian neocon manages decency. Brava!
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tonka023 Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #15
42. Decency?
This is the a**hole who keeps on saying
that Israel is justified in bombing the crap
out of Lebanon. So he flies a bunch plane
full of people who've already escaped the
fighting home. What about everybody
else? AND they sat on their asses when it
broke out and didn't plan anything
sooner. This is a mess for everyone
involved, and don't go thinking that just
because Harper isn't Bush, that he's
good.
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sueragingroz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #42
71. Here's a great editorial on Harper's mishandling of the situation
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. It is an excellent article, I had not seen it, thanks for posting!
Clicking on Larry Zolf's column was illuminating as well, not merely to contrast the two perspectives but also the responses posted to Mr. Zolf's column.

Thanks again for posting the link.
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sueragingroz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #72
85. You are most welcome :) (nt)
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
19. Here is our Prime Minister's capacity for compassion and leadership
Harper said he has not contacted Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert seeking an explanation of the air strike that killed the Canadians on Sunday, nor had his officials.

"The onus remains on the parties that caused the conflict to take steps to end the conflict," said Harper.

snip

Harper initially called Israel's military action, including bombing Beirut airport, a "measured response" as he travelled to Europe last week.

Asked twice Monday if he still thinks Israel's military reaction is measured or whether he regrets that characterization, the prime minister was clinically dismissive.

"I think our evaluation of the situation has been accurate," he said. "Obviously there has been an ongoing escalation and, frankly, ongoing escalation is inevitable once conflict begins."

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=8d789173-4648-4908-b3ef-c4e148f0559d&k=27164
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
20. good move
nice to see some sensibility from the pm. the public is none too impressed with his supporting israel in this debacle. its been a tradition for us to try and remain as neutral as possible, considering our 'peacekeeping' tradition.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
23. Oh, come on now. This doesn't impress me at all.
So Harper shared his little plane with Canadian citizens. Big deal.

Bush flies on Air Force One, flagship of The World's Only Superpower. You could hardly expect him to share his accommodations with huddled, smelly American refugees from Lebanon.

He is, after all, The Decider, The Leader of the Free World. He doesn't have time for riffraff. Why should he bother his beatiful mind by even thinking of such people?

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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #23
44. The difference? bush isn't a rookie facing a looming election.
It's a crass, cynical political move, pure and simple.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
25. Harper is a conservative
I respect him for this.

The U.S. is under fascist control.

That's a whole different deal.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Actually, he isn't a conservative, he is a Reform party member
The Reform Party was a group of members that split from the Progressive Conservative party because they weren't extreme enough. The Reform Party never moved beyond Alberta due to it's racist, bigoted policies and beliefs so they changed their name to the Alliance Party in hopes no one would notice it was the same bigots and racists. It didn't work, they still couldn't move beyond Alberta so they packed the Progressive Conservative Party, real conservatives, by taking out memberships and proceeded to vote to have the Reform Party take over the Progressive Conservative party and then gave themselves yet another new name, the New Conservative Party. Same bigots and racists.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
30. If they are already in Cyprus, then he is not saving them
If he was picking up people in Lebanon, that would be a different story. Furthermore, he made sure to take his photographer along. It is a photo-op.

He is in trouble politically for the 8 Canadian dead, and his statement than Israel's military actions were balanced. This is an effort to try to patch up his image a bit.
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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Where should he land his Airbus 310 in Lebanon to pick them up?
All Lebanese runways were bombed to uselessness days ago.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #32
41. This is being framed as "Harper saving people"
That is simply not the case. He is expediting their departure from a safe haven, at best. He is also getting a photo-op out of the deal.

Perhaps he could take a flight to Tel Aviv and try to be a neutral peacemaker, the way Lester Pearson was during the Suez crisis (to take one example).

http://archives.cbc.ca/400d.asp?id=1-71-1290-7514&wm6=1

"Pearson, who was minister of external affairs at the time, won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1957 for his solution to the Suez Crisis. He became prime minister in 1963."
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. Thank you, daleo! Too many DUers are falling for this.
I did at first when I heard it on the radio today.
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
39. My American friends, if you are taking all of this at face value...
Edited on Thu Jul-20-06 12:20 AM by tuvor
... I'm sorry to be blunt, but you're not paying close enough attention. (Can't say I blame you with all you have to put up with.)

Check out the Canada Forum if you want to learn more. There's always room for you there if you're interested!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=190

:hi:
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
40. seems like a nice gesture EOM
.
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
45. "Evacuee: An evacuated person". In other words...
People who are already out of harm's way.
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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. You're in favor of Harper leaving them in Cyprus longer, then?
Also, this flight will give a hundred some evacuees PM Harper's ear for the duration of the flight, or for a large portion of it anyway. He might learn to better understand the realities on the ground in Lebanon from some first-hand perspectives. I would love to be a fly on the wall during that flight.
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. I am not worried about people who are not in harm's way.
Edited on Thu Jul-20-06 01:49 AM by tuvor
As for what will happen for the duration of the flight, neither of us can assume to know what will happen. And with no reporters on the flight (only an official government photographer is there to record anything firsthand), we'll never hear anything firsthand but the official story.

Please, Wonk, join us in the Canada Forum if you're interested in finding out more about why Canadian DUers are less-than-pleased with Harper. We'd love to have you hang out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=190
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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. I'll make a prediction here. With 100,000ish evacuees fleeing to Cyprus
over the next week or two, it won't be pretty. Those who can get a flight out now instead of a week or three from now are the lucky ones.

25,000 Americans, 40-50,000 Canadians, 20,000 French, others (UK, Greek, Italian, etc, numbers unkown to me at this time).
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. I'm not clear on exactly what you're predicting.
Sorry.

(Have to turn in now, will read any reply tomorrow.)

Cheers!
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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Imagine living for a week with 40,000 other people in a stadium
Edited on Thu Jul-20-06 02:36 AM by Wonk
designed for 25,000 person occupancy for a soccer game, with rationed supplies, as you wait for your flight home 'soon'.
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #52
57. I see. Let's hope it doesn't get to that point.
Thanks, Wonk.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. He doesn't give a shit about what's going on in Lebanon
Any more than Bush does.

He's desperate to make his dog-shit government smell better. Nothing more.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #46
60. I expect better. Really.
Objecting to fawning over Harper because of his cynical attempt at damage repair by ferrying a few people home in no way implies that anyone is "in favour of leaving them in Cyprus longer". Then or any other how. Such misrepresentations in the form of questions are beneath you, I would have thought.

What a holy big honking deal this is not: the Canadian government had a plane available (it isn't really "Harper's plane", y'know) and Harper directed that it be put it to use to bring stranded Canadians home. Duh; what the hell else would one expect that he do?

USAmericans might not expect that Bush do something like this. That doesn't actually make doing it some superhuman feat of humanitarianism. Or even a really brilliant political move, or something that large numbers of people elsewhere in the world would not expect. The duh factor is just too high, and Canadians just don't yet have expectations quite as low as USAmericans may have.

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #46
61. Here is the truth about what really is happening, both with Harper
and his appalling PR stunt and also with the thousands still stranded:

PMO wanted crisis kept under wraps, sources say

Micromanagement by the Prime Minister's Office and a lack of resources in Lebanon contributed to the confusion and anguish at Beirut's port Wednesday as Canadians trying to flee Israeli bombardments watched boats chartered by other nations sail away, leaving them behind.

snip

In fact, Foreign Affairs staff realized last week that there was an emergency situation involving tens of thousands of Canadians brewing in Lebanon.

But federal sources say there was an edict handed down by Sandra Buckler, the Prime Minister's communications director, dictating that the situation was to be kept under wraps.

snip

Suddenly, last night, they were told the Prime Minister would be visiting and that Canadians — any Canadians — would have to be brought to the port of Larnaca, Cyprus. They made an urgent request to the British government, which had been taking Britons on large naval vessels with military escorts to the western city of Limassol, to allow 120 Canadians to board one of the ships so that there would be some available to greet the Prime Minister and ride home on his Airbus jet.

more, MUCH more

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060720.wticktock20/BNStory/National/home
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #61
66. ^^^^^^^^^ truly a don't miss report^^^^^^^^^
Thank you for posting it.

It bears repeating.

That was why, on Tuesday, Ottawa abruptly switched the target of the evacuation from Cyprus to Turkey, where there are both hotel spaces and the facilities to quickly airlift evacuees to Canada using military or commercial planes.

Still, that switch took Canadian officials in Cyprus by surprise. Wednesday morning they prepared to move the Nicosia operation to Turkey.

Suddenly, last night, they were told the Prime Minister would be visiting and that Canadians -- any Canadians -- would have to be brought to the port of Larnaca, Cyprus. They made an urgent request to the British government, which had been taking Britons on large naval vessels with military escorts to the western city of Limassol, to allow 120 Canadians to board one of the ships so that there would be some available to greet the Prime Minister and ride home on his Airbus jet.

One government official in Ottawa, who asked to remain unidentified, expressed concern that Mr. Harper's decision to fly to Cyprus to offer up the services of the government jet might be perceived by Canadians as a publicity stunt. The government could have sent one of its Challenger jets to Paris to pick up the Prime Minister and his staff, the source said, freeing up more room on the Airbus.
Did someone say cynical? Yeah, I think I did. ;)

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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
59. where's the photo of boygeorge waving to them from AF-1 as he flys over
:shrug:
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
62. Cyprus?
People aren't evacuating FROM Cyprus, they're evacuating TO Cyprus.

Maybe on his way back to Canada he can stop in Ireland and rescue some Katrina victims.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. LOL!
:7
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. Exactly, and just to add to that, Canadians are not being evacuated
Edited on Thu Jul-20-06 02:14 PM by Spazito
to Cyprus because there is no room there for them, they are being evacuated to Turkey EXCEPT for 120 Canadians who are to be "evacuated" to Cyprus so that Harper has some Canadians to cheer him when they, eventually, arrive there seeing as it may well be better than 13 hours before they arrive to be USED by the Harper PR team.

Appalling, beyond appalling imo.
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-20-06 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
77. I really hope he stays on the issue and gets all the Canadians home
Not just the ones on that airplane! Plus the Cypriot foreign minister was begging him for help, because they have thousands of people arriving and not enough aircraft to handle all of them. Canada has -- well, we used to have -- a government-owned airline, plus we actually make some planes here. I hope that the PMO does not simply brush this off as soon as the cameras turn away.

Canada used to be proud of its ability to move people over long distances. If the Canadians who are being evacuated have Lebanese relatives who would like to join them temporarily in Canada, why not rubber-stamp visas for them too? It would be nice if we could help out evacuees from other countries too, like Australia, which I have heard is trying to get its citizens home as well. This is the very least we could do (and ideally we would be helping broker a ceasefire, though I am having doubts about whether we really would be welcome as an "honest broker", thanks to some of the Harper government's recent statements).
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