Soldiers Plan to Argue Rape Tied to Distress

[Rose Siding]

Attorneys for Army soldiers accused of raping an Iraqi teenager and killing her and her family in March are planning to argue that the men were under extreme emotional distress because of the horrors of their combat assignment and will probably challenge the alleged confessions some of the soldiers gave to investigators in Iraq.

David Sheldon, a civilian lawyer who is representing Spec. James P. Barker, said yesterday that B Company, 1st Battalion, 502nd Infantry Regiment was devastated by numerous combat casualties and repeated violent attacks in and around Mahmudiyah before and after a group of soldiers allegedly attacked the Iraqi family March 12. Sheldon said the men were placed at a traffic checkpoint "in one of the most stressful environments imaginable" and that commanders failed to recognize the damage that was being done to the soldiers.
...
In federal court documents filed in the case against Steven D. Green, 21, a former Army private who allegedly led the attack, government officials said the men planned the crime. In military charge sheets obtained by The Washington Post, officials say the men also burned their clothes after the attack and one disposed of the alleged murder weapon in a canal.

"While the government wants to say that this was somehow a planned event, it's clearly the result of a tremendously stressful environment where soldiers are subjected to the most horrendous acts of violence by the insurgency," Sheldon said, describing a unit that was in disarray, with leadership problems and outside threats. "They were extremely young soldiers who suffered repeated traumatic attacks and saw unimaginable carnage. This was not a crime of opportunity but the result of extreme pressure."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/20/AR2006072001839.html

[wtmusic]

1. All that pressure, and they could still get an erection

:eyes:

[saigon68]

29. I WAS DEPRESSED SO I RAPED AND KILLED A 14 YEAR OLD GIRL

That's rare

WHERE THE FUCK ARE ALL THE TROOP JOCK-SNIFFERS ON THIS ONE

there aren't on this thread thats for sure

they are making excuses for their beloved troops like (besides her father was a rag-head)

</sarcasm>

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ronnie624]

55. I think you snagged one. n/t

[saigon68]

58. LOL

Back when it was legal ( before 1988) we used these to snag salmon

[ronnie624]

59. Ouch!

:scared:

[wtmusic]

51. Of course they should receive a fair trial

Just like good ol' Gus Covarrubias, the gunnery sergeant who walked after admitting to killing two Iraqis execution-style:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/May-18-Tue-2004/news/23906187.html

[saigon68]

52. Another Scum bag and Hooligan who skated

Because he was wearing a uniform

From his attorney---

Not bad for performing evisceration of someones brain with an M-16

"We negotiated a total package that he would receive his honorable discharge," Brown said Monday.

"We don't deny he made the statements. He was on medication and had a concussion. He should never have been allowed to make the interview," he said.

[Imagevision]

65. Insane behavior under insane conditions...

[KansDem]

72. Not entirely correct...

I WAS DEPRESSED SO I RAPED AND KILLED A 14 YEAR OLD GIRL AFTER OGLING HER SEVERAL TIMES AND DEVISING A PLAN

A Justice Department affidavit says Green and other soldiers planned to rape a young woman who lived near the checkpoint they manned in Mahmoudiya.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/07/09/soldiers.charged/index.html

Other accounts had the soldiers eying her several times before the rape/murder.

Incidentally, the Associated Press Stylebook and Libel Manual defines "woman" as any female 18 and over. Up to that age a female is referred to as a "girl." (1998 edition, p. 89)

[maxrandb]

32. Didn't Rush make an unannounced visit over there?

Maybe he left them some "Blue Babies".

[Drum]

2. LOL

Yeah...or was it rape of a 14-yr-old was in self-defense??? The awful stress made me do it, and made me kill the whole family.

Sorry, they have so crossed the line. Levity aside, this crap defense would in essence erase the concept of war-crimes, turn them into pathology and easy outs...a lack of accountability, which is the thing lusted over by the WH and Pentagon these days (and sadly, by our so-called Justice Dept. as well!)

[smirkymonkey]

70. I would think the premeditation of the crime would rule out the "I

just snapped" defense. How the hell are they going to get away with that? :grr:

[knowbody0]

3. coming from the washington post, i must believe it's true

and that makes me wanna puke. like stress makes you rape and kill? what have we become?

[IndianaGreen]

4. I wonder if pedophiles in America will begin to use that excuse

"I raped that little girl because I was all stressed out about having to register as a sex offender."

I don't think they will find a jury that would fall for that line of BS!

[TomInTib]

5. Fuck that.

I know more than I want to know about combat situations and rape.

From what I have read,I am pretty sure that those (or at least one of those) bastards had it planned.

Fuck them

[bluestateguy]

6. They are lucky they're even getting a trial at all

A lot of people have been warehoused at Gitmo for 3-4 years without being charged.

The first thing these punks should do is say "thank you" that they are even getting a trial.

[Straight Shooter]

7. All hail the era of no accountability, ushered in by the * administration.

Reading stories like this really stresses me out. Gosh, I hope I don't go and do something barbaric to someone and their family.

:sarcasm:

[uppityperson]

8. war is hell. Of course they were under distress.

doesn't excuse a planned crime like this. Not a spontaneous mass murder, but a planned one. War is hell, people do bad things, but there are rules and they were broken, dramatically. give us a break, this is a stupid argument.

[DELUSIONAL]

9. This is just sick -- excuse making

What about the women US soldiers who are raped?

This is happening -- too many women are speaking up.

But then their commander in Chief is a lying sack of shit . . .

[rucky]

10. maybe we should stop the war, then. n/t

[SensibleAmerican]

24. You buy this defense?

We all want to stop the war, but this ain't the reason why.

(Sympathy for the rapist that is. Sympathy for the rape victim IS an appropriate rationale to bring home the troops. If you understand what I'm saying, I'll give you a cookie. :))

[rucky]

46. Oatmeal Raisin, please. :)

[kenny blankenship]

11. I know I love to let off stress by raping 14 yr olds

then shooting her, then shooting her family, then burning the bodies. Man after a full round of that you are just SPENT. Sooo relaxing.

[CoffeeCat]

12. If this is their defense...

...then I guess they'll all be found guilty.

This defense is so pitiful--it's borderline laughable.

If I was a jury member, I would be further inflamed (and more likely to give the harshest possible sentence) if "I was stressed out" was used to defend raping a young girl, setting her on fire and gunning down her entire family.

This is not a smart defense.

[IndianaGreen]

13. It won't wash in military court either!

They planned this attack for a week. This was not a spontaneous event. All of our troops in Iraq are stressed out, but they didn't do what members of this platoon did.

[CoffeeCat]

14. Exactly...and furthermore...

...this defense attempts to legitimize rape, murder and burning people--if you're stressed out.

That's perverse and ridiculous.

Like you said, no military court will buy that.

The defense demonstrates that there is strong, irrefutable evidence that these soldiers committed these heinous crimes. The defense is...'ok, we did it--but we were really stressed.' Obviously, if part of their defense is to admit that the crime happened--then there is an extremely strong case against them.

[EFerrari]

16. Who is their lawyer, Dr. Phil?

:shrug:

[Danascot]

71. Yep, they'll be found guilty and sentenced to

60 days and a good talking to, like those Abu Graib thugs.

[chookie]

15. I ain't buying this BS

"extremely young soldiers" who suffer "repeated traumatic attacks" etc -- do not carefully plan a rape and murder over a week's time....

"the result of extreme pressure" my ass!

This was a carefully planned vicious crime -- it has nothing to do with the "stress of war."

Green is a psychopath. He would have committed this crime if he had been in Indiana, or Florida, or Iraq.

Idiotic defense attorney would be better off claiming Rumsfeld has been negligent for allowing psychopaths into the army (to fight Chimperial wars) to begin with.

(Wait till the Aryan Brotherhood and Gangstas start committing crimes over there!! Maybe they won't be able to maintain discipline to just be there for the excellent training in all out warfare, or control themselves to wait to come home and start killing US Jews, gays, brown people, and enemy gangs -- and "just" kill Iraqis -- which is SO easy to get away with, because "we must support the troops").

Ha ha -- I was just reading about how radical Islamists are exploiting liberal societies like Holland to organize terror brigades -- ha ha the desperate American right wing are giving radical racist groups like Aryan Brotherhood the opportunity to get the best training for future killing in their homeland. And the green grass grows all around, the green grass grows all around.

[NMDemDist2]

67. Chimperial

I am so stealing that one!

:hi:

[blonndee]

17. Fuck them.

FUCK THEM! They planned this shit.

Oh, I forgot: allegedly.

[madeline_con]

18. Soldiers Plan to Argue Rape Tied to Distress

Iraq Checkpoint Among 'Most Stressful'

By Josh White
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, July 21, 2006; Page A10

Attorneys for Army soldiers accused of raping an Iraqi teenager and killing her and her family in March are planning to argue that the men were under extreme emotional distress because of the horrors of their combat assignment and will probably challenge the alleged confessions some of the soldiers gave to investigators in Iraq.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/20/AR2006072001839.html?nav=rss_nation

[babylonsister]

19. Try the admin-the blivet, cheney, rumsfeld, rice, etc.-for emotional

issues. Otherwise, I have NO sympathy.

[tocqueville]

20. I was feeling pretty lousy, Your Honor

so to feel better I went and raped a 14-years old girl

that is going to impress the jury

[nealmhughes]

21. This will NOT impress the jury.

In fact, they may well vote to hang them if they try this defense.

While it may be rooted in great psych evidence, this is going to be court martials...except for Green.

[chookie]

22. When sociopaths experience stress...

... they do crazy, vicious, violent things, quite often planned out in detail. They don't have to be in Iraq, or any war zone -- they will commit the same crime in Indiana, or San Francisco, or where ever. You'd astonished at what sociopaths consider as "stress" -- it may be seeing a particular hair color, or a height and build, or having recently been "dissed" in a manner that reminds the creep of an ex-girlfriend or Mom, etc.

To claim that commiting this crime in Iraq was due to some sort of extenuating circumstance is total hogwash, and a laughable defense.

Normal people, even under incredible stress a la carrying out the occupation of Iraq, will not commit such carefully planned acts of violence.

This crime was not spontaneous, uncontrollable violence -- they did it because they thought/"knew" they could get away with it.

Still, it ain't sure what the verdict will be -- what with unconditional "support the troops!" and all. I guess that the defense is gambling on the "our soldiers do no wrong" defense.

[maxrandb]

62. I think this is tied to the confessions, not the crime

When I read that I get the impression that the lawyer is saying that they will argue to throw out the confessions because of stress.

I don't think any lawyer in their right mind would argue that their client raped and killed because of stress.

I'm not hopeful for justice in this case. I'm concerned that the disgusting pricks may get away with it, because

a. The remaining family does not want to allow the body to be exhumed, greatly hurting the chance of forensic evidence being produced.

b. Confessions will be thrown out because the soldiers were under stress.

c. The Army had ample time to "scrubb" the crime scene.

and

d. I doubt that any area of Iraq is secure enough to secure a crime scene.

I think these pricks are guilty as hell, but would not be surprised if they walk.

[tblue37]

66. If they do walk, they had better never walk

anywhere without looking over their shoulders.

There are undoubtedly many, many relatives of that girl's family who will want to make sure justice is done. There are probably many other Muslims in various parts of the world, including here in the US, who would carry out a fatwa on these guys. The best thing they can probably hope for is to be locked up in maximum security for the rest of their lives.

[DoYouEverWonder]

23. I thought the US Military

had the best training in the world and that our troops could stand up to stress and the difficulties of working in a war zone? If they can't handle it, why are they allowed to be there in the first place?

[saigon68]

31. The Recruiters have to pick the low hanging Fruit from the tree

As In---- Did you ever try to teach a head of cabbage to sing the Star Spangled Banner?

[Red Fox]

25. One more reason to put them in jail then:

So they'll learn how to deal with such "stress". From what I've heard, it's pretty stressful in there. It's going to be a very "educational" and "rewarding" time for these guys. Discipline 101!

On a slightly different note: these fuckers shouldn't give Saddam any ideas, idiots.

Imagine that guy stalling with a "You remember that terrible war that happened with Iran with the Americans supporting both sides to have a higher kill count? I was soooooooo emotionally hurt with that trauma. I'll never recover from it. Perhaps that kind of abuse got me "sidetracked" in the years that followed. If we think about it, this is all YOUR fault!"

[krispos42]

26. Don't forget the revenge killings

Those two soldiers that were kidnapped by insurgents, tortured to death with power drills and other equally fun items, and beheaded? Remember them? They were from the same unit as Green and his fellow psychos. And they were kidnapped, tortured to death with power drills, and beheaded AFTER the murder and rape of the family by Green & Co. Does that make Green & Co. responsible for the painful deaths of 2 comrades-in-arms?

<sigh> Okay, we can accept the fact that the insurgents will always treat our captured soldiers worse than we treat captured insurgents. Therefore, we had better treat captured insurgents marginally decently in order to keep angry Iraqis from taking the ol' Black & Decker with a 1" woodbore drillbit to some Marine's kneecap.

<snip>
The suspects belong to the same unit as two soldiers kidnapped and killed south of Baghdad last month, a military official said on condition of anonymity because the case was under way.

The military has said that one and possibly both of the slain soldiers were tortured and beheaded. The official said the mutilation of the slain soldiers stirred feelings of guilt and led at least one member of the platoon to reveal the rape-slaying on June 22.

One soldier was arrested after admitting his role in the alleged attack on the family, the official said.

The official said the rape and killings appeared to have been a "crime of opportunity," noting that the soldiers had not been attacked by insurgents but had noticed the alleged rape victim on previous patrols.
<snip>

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/07/03/iraq.charge.ap/index.html

[Caretha]

27. This defense

is par with - a man who kills his parents and pleads the court for mercy since he is an orphan.

[truthisfreedom]

28. it may be bush's fault they were there...

so ultimately the buck stops at his desk, but these young men have no excuse for their actions.

[GeorgeGist]

30. A more credible defense...

would be to claim that the Commander-in-Chief drove them insane. And then call him as a witness for the defense.

[no_hypocrisy]

33. The "heat of passion" defense, usually reserved for murder charges, or

post-traumatic stress probably won't fly here. (Can you imagine if the court legitimized the claim that a soldier HAD TO rape a 14 year old girl and then murder her family because he was "unreasonably" and "personally" provoked"?! OMG!)

Green's best bet would have been insanity, plain and simple, UNLESS he wasn't insane, just criminally bankrupt. Then he's fucked.

[happyslug]

34. This defense is to mitigate the sentence, not to acquit

Remember under the UMCJ it is the JURY that sets sentence not the Judge. Thus this defense is a plead to the jury, all of whom are Military personnel, that the stress of being on at that Checkpoint IN EXCESS OF WHAT THE REGULATIONS PERMIT, caused them NOT to think rationally. By admitting what they did was wrong, the Jury has to decide the Sentence. Left Imprisonment or just 5 years GIVEN THAT A CONTRIBUTING REASON FOR THIS ACTION A THEIR COMMANDER'S FAILURE TO FOLLOW ARMY REGULATIONS (i.e. these men SHOULD not have been at that Checkpoint for over a month and the reason for that length of time was THEIR COMMANDER'S FAULT).

In many way this defense is saying the Command structure left these men down. Group think is a big thing in the military and people are ENCOURAGED to do things with their comrades. It just takes ONE NUT to take these concepts and lead his fellow soldiers to do something like this. Remember the Ring Leader was discharged for some sort of unstated Mental unfitness to be in the Military. That is all you need to get an atrocity like this given the group think of the Military. Where was their Senior NCOs? Where was their Officers? Why were thy left at that Checkpoint so long? Remember this was NOT some sudden decision to rape and kill, but something these soldiers talked about among themselves for a WEEK BEFORE HAND. This smack of lack of Leadership, which implies there should be more these these soldiers going to jail over this.

Thus I believe this is a Good Defense, the Soldiers will NOT get off with this Defense, but it might get them a lesser sentence. It also might lead to indictments to their Senior NCOs and Officers of failure to do their duty, one of which is to follow regulations AND make sure your people do NOT do things like this AND if they are talking it among themselves that you hear about it and address it BEFORE SOMETHING LIKE THIS RAPE OCCURS.

[Vinca]

35. Innocent until proven guilty - keep telling ourselves that.

I think the end result will be the disclosure the military, out of desperation, is signing up people who were headed to prison in the first place. This whole thing is so sickening - atrocities done in our name and every bit as bad as Sadam.

[ckramer]

38. How about Defense Department hire all the street hookers in US

to Iraq serving the soldiers?

The big boss didn't think about that, huh?

That's win win situation for everyone.

[lpbk2713]

39. And those damn Twinkies too.

Don't forget the damn Twinkies!

[MrPrax]

40. Distress? How can that be a defense...

All the accounts I have read said that these animals actually spent a week planning it? How can you argue distress if you consciously planned it?

Also it speaks volumes about the level our culture has sunk to, when the media promotes the rape aspects in the headlines, while burying the more serious aspects of 4 murdered people.

[ellie]

41. What about the reports that

they stalked her, then raped, and then murdered her? Is the stalking part of the extreme stress?

[UpInArms]

42. "extremely young soldiers"

perhaps we should begin rounding up the 80 - 90 year old men to go and fight and leave the "boys" at home.

I call this absolute bullshit and - don't give me the "war is hell" line - that is and was known long before this illegal invasion and occupation of a sovereign country -

More War Crimes for all those that have supported the Dimson's mal-administration and this "war" that is not a "war" that give "war" powers to a would-be dictator and his minions.

[sendero]

43. Who the eff cares?

Every man woman and child in Iraq is under stress. That does not give anyone license to rape and murder. This defense is a last resort, and it's not going to go over well.

[Mandate My Ass]

48. I agree

What I believe is that the environment of lawlessness in Iraq was so deep, that those who really only need the slightest push to act out their violent and sadistic tendencies saw their chance and acted on it.

Stress? Puh-leeze. These were the people with the weapons and the license to kill.

[Captain Hilts]

44. It won't work. nt

[bleedingheart]

45. What a crock of bullshit for a defense strategy....it means

that they admit they raped the girl.

The fact that they have a defense to try and make it seem less horrific because they were "stressed" means that they did it.

Now they need to get a jury to believe such a crock of shit.

War is hell.

My dad suffered nightmares about WWII until he died in 1980. But ...he didn't rape anyone over it.

[wtmusic]

49. the sad thing is, it might actually work

Marine Gus Covarrubias walked after ADMITTING to killing two Iraqis execution-style (his military tribunal decided he was lying when he admitted to the crimes).

[bleedingheart]

53. for years rapists were given refuge in the US military

my cousin married a career Navy man who only joined the Navy because a judge gave him the choice of the Navy or prison after he and 3 other men gang raped a woman here in PA.

I think that rape is not considered a crime by a majority of people. I truly believe that. I have known people I thought were normal and nice ...that have had no sympathy for women who were raped.

[mainer]

47. So they're admitting they did it?

Will this shut up the freepers who keep insisting on presumption of innocence?

[warrens]

50. They gotta be kidding

They're nuts. Although not in the legal sense.

[Skittles]

54. what garbage

snapping and participating in a massacre is one thing; planning a rape and murder is another

[wicket]

56. Yup - the premeditation is key

:grr:

[Skittles]

57. I should have said allegedly, because that is what I have heard

rape is never about "snapping"

[redqueen]

60. Can't belive anyone would have the gall...

to try that BS.

It was planned, all right. The mother tried to find other living arrangements for her daughter. She kenw the girl was being stalked.

And don't forget... the witnesses said NOTHING until they noticed they might be on the receiving end of vigilante-style payback. Can't really blame the Iraqis for doing it vigilante-style, since as mentioned above... some US troops who murder Iraqis not only get away with it, but get honorable discharges!

Anyone know of anyone actually punished for wanton murder? Or is it all just swept under the rug in the fog of war?

Bastards. Damn them all for starting this unnecessary war. Damn them all to hell.

[NotGivingUp]

61. Lock them up and throw away the key.

[FredScuttle]

63. To those who think these scum won't skate on a "stress" defense...

I give you the humble ballad of Lt. Calley:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley


Calley, much like Green, was a neer-do-well who took advantage of a combat situation to rain down rape and death to innocent civilians. While Calley enjoyed near 70% support from Americans during his trial, I don't think Green will be seen as a folk hero. But I wouldn't put it past Commander Bunnypants to pardon him.

[geniph]

64. Whenever I'm under stress at work

(which is pretty frequent in my line of work), I tend to get pretty snappish, and often go home and drink too much, or take a Valium. I have yet to relieve my stress by committing violent crimes such as rape or setting people afire.

Not that I haven't CONSIDERED the latter. But there's this thing called self-control, which normal adults have.

[tblue37]

68. My guess is that this sort of crime happens with

horrifying frequency, and these guys knew that it does, and that people get away with it all the time. They figured they would also get away with it, and normally they probably would have. What they didn't figure was that the Iraqis might start taking revenge.

I believe that if the three sodiers from their unit had not been killed, two of them tortured and beheaded, we would never have heard about this crime. The only reason we know about it is that someone in the unit realized that he could easily be captured and killed the same way.

As I understand it, a unit is 9 men (that's what I read on Steve Gilliard's blog anyway). Three were killed. The one who finally broke and said something about it was probably scared out of his skin that the rest of them would get the same sort of treatment as their dead buddies. Since there were only 6 of them left (and 5 were directly involved in the crime), the outlook was not pretty.

So someone broke and spoke. That is the only reason we have heard about this crime. There are probably many, many more that we have not heard about.

[tblue37]

69. Did you see this in the CNN article?

Family members have given permission for the girl's body to be exhumed as part of the investigation, Janabi and the town's mayor, Mouyad Fadhil Saif, told the newspaper.

That means it is far less likely that they will walk.

[Marie26]

75. That's good.

I mean it's horrible, but it does mean that there will be more evidence to convict these soldiers. I was getting worried that they might walk for lack of evidence.

[zann725]

73. Sorry, no excuse..."support our troops" group.

That "support" includes ALL their actions. And "stress" and traumas of many kinds could be used as an excuse for any Adult long-unemployed, abused as a kid now grown male in U.S. Domestic violence and rape cases. Domestic violence (against women particularly) have consistently been linked to "stress" (financial or situational) of the offending adult male (or even now TEEN males via "date rape").

Murder IS Murder. Rape is Rape. And War IS War. Violence begets/condones violenceas the daily 'norm.'

You don't "make Peace" through "waging War"...despite the age-old chicken-hawk rhetoric.

[superconnected]

74. Oh and are their family buying into this so they don't have to

see little johnny as a murderer but instead as a distressed war hero?

I'm going to guess the reason this happened - in a group, is becuase they are used to killing anyway - see and do it all the time, that they decided they'd throw some rape in there.

After yesterdays revelation where 4 soldiers claimed they were following the "ROE" policy of killing men of a certian age just because they were a certian age, I think it's safe to say a whole lot of "johnnys" are over there doing this. It's the system.

Those kdis are going to come back here and we're going to see the decades of walking into burger king and shooting, that we saw with vietnam vets.

These current guys are already coming back and killing their wives at an alarming rate.

It's a systematic creation of "murders".