ACLU Wants Reveal of Report About Bridge Blocked from Katrina Evacuees

[JPZenger]

http://www.laaclu.org/News/2006/FotiOpenLetterJul1806.htm

http://www.klfy.com/Global/story.asp?S=5179930

Louisiana Attorney General Foti has been in the news for trying to prosecute a doctor and two nurses for murder for mercy killing of 4 hospice patients in a flooded Hospital during Katrina. (By the way, the State Attorney General doesn't even have jurisdiction - the Parish District Attorney does). Today, the following news item broke that the Attorney General has refused to release his investigation into the Gretna Bridge incident during Katrina. This involved local police blocking people from escaping across a bridge from New Orleans during the worst of the disaster.

"Open Letter Issued to Attorney General Foti on Long Overdue "Gretna Bridge Incident" Investigation

Dear Attorney General Foti:

The ACLU of Louisiana calls on you to immediately release the results of your long overdue investigation of the August 31, 2005, Gretna Bridge Incident. This involves an acknowledged roadblock by the Gretna Police Department to prevent victims of hurricane Katrina from fleeing the devastation and flooding. Supposedly, you opened the case at least eight months ago. While initially applauding your efforts and urging a speedy release of the report this past January, the delay in wrapping it up makes no sense, especially in that the victims of the roadblock and the public stand waiting for word from you. Justice delayed is justice denied.

Furthermore, a spokesman for the State Department said the US Department of Justice wants to see your report, as well. It came up in Geneva, Switzerland, at a meeting of the United Nations Human Rights Committee as an alleged violation of international human rights based on race. Also, here at home, it may infringe on federal nondiscrimination statutes. Since the majority of the trapped persons happened to be black and poor, the actions of the police may have been racially motivated.

In any case, we called your office six weeks ago and urged those responsible to move on and head for the finish line, figuratively speaking. Our interest in this matter arises from a belief that a gross violation of civil rights and liberties occurred for those fleeing a natural and manmade disaster. The police may have committed unlawful acts when they used potentially deadly force without cause by shooting over the heads of several hundred unarmed civilians, including some in wheelchairs and on crutches. As public officials, they must be held accountable for their actions under the law, and the Attorney General of the state has a responsibility to the people to get the facts and act accordingly...It has now been eleven months since the incident occurred, and we do not have an answer from your office on the results of your investigation...

Joe Cook
Executive Director"

[spotbird]

1. involuntary manslaughter

There were dead bodies in New Orleans of people who likely would have survived had they been allowed out.

Isn't involuntary imprisonment which caused fatalities also a crime? The pigs who trapped those people there certainly knew that their prisoners were without the means to survive.

[leveymg]

3. I'd go for Negligent Homicide. Start with the cake eater.

Work your way down.

[sarge43]

4. And we haven't heard squat about the people who were abandoned in the

nursing homes. How's about some justice for them?

[alfredo]

6. I think they were arrested.

[aquart]

5. I have very bloody thoughts about those men with guns.

What I'd like is to see them hanging from that bridge, as an example. Which isn't likely, since the community supported their obscene behavior.

[pitohui]

25. the community supports the action because it was proper

you can NOT tell people to evacuate their homes because it is too dangerous to stay there -- and then open the people's evacuated homes to strangers

that is not fair and next time people would not be able to evacuate from jeff parish, they would have to stand and defend their own homes if the sheriff would not do his job

there was no food, water, safety, or shelter in gretna, this entire case is completely invented -- as is the case aga. the doctor and the nurses

but two wrongs don't make a right

foti is as an ass and apparently the aclu has chosen to be an ass as well

what part of MANDATORY evacuation do people not understand? it doesn't mean that they get to move strangers into my house after telling ME it's unsafe to stay there, it means the area is too unsafe for any humans to remain except first responders -- or is it that what is too unsafe for white people is considered "good enough" for those people?

jeff parish sheriff is indeed a racist, i won't dispute it, but this particular action was entirely proper

go after some of the crap he's really pulled, don't invent nonsense that gets all the homeowners to circle the wagon around the creep

[DoYouEverWonder]

30. Wow, let's just close all the state borders

and force people to go through checkpoints to go from place to place.

Last time I check the US was supposed to be a free country with unrestricted movement. The people on the bridge didn't want to go to Gretna, they wanted to get out of NO and the Superdome. They had been told there were buses on the other side.

You seem to have no clue that many people in NO don't have their own transportation, and could not evacuate without assistance. That is why they went to the Superdome. They were told to go there and that there would be help. When help never came, they tried to leave. The Gretna police blocked the bridge and fired their guns to prevent the people from crossing.

Sorry, there was nothing proper about what the Gretna police did and there is no justification.

[pitohui]

31. another one who doesn't know what MANDATORY EVACUATION means

sorry, the borders ARE closed during a mandatory evacuation, period, end of sentence

the sheriff acted in accordance w. every moral and legal law

people who don't know what they are talking abt and who don't understand the very basics abt a situation should seriously consider NOT commenting abt it

you have NO RIGHT OF FREE TRAVEL thru a disaster zone, NONE

the residents of gretna were NOT allowed to be there, you are saying that outsiders should be given preference when the people who lived there were not allowed to be there

"it's too dangerous for white people but it's ok for black people" -- is that really what DU wants to support?

because when i see threads like this, and threads like the one trying to force people back into nasty public housing projects, it's enough to make me wonder if everyone's gone quite mad

[Erika]

61. The whites were the ones complaining about the racism

against the blacks. For you to pretend that there was not clean water and food in Gretna is insane.

What does housing projects have to do with natural disasters?

I hope the racists cops lose their jobs, at the very least.

[Canuckistanian]

79. Dude, you need some professional help, seriously

"you have NO RIGHT OF FREE TRAVEL thru a disaster zone, NONE"

On this, I actually agree with you. It's necessary to protect aginst looters, would be "rescuers" who could interfere with emergency servies, etc.

But using a roadblock to keep people

INSIDE A DISASTER ZONE

is criminal.

And what is this about forcing residents of Gretna to accept refugees? No one has ever suggested that this was ever a possibility.

Gretna was just the exit point, not the destination for people who were suffering and dying inside that stadium.

[Nashvilliberal]

100. Dude, you need to educate yourself, seriously

Gretna WAS IN THE DISASTER ZONE! Significant portions of the West Bank (my parents live in Harvey, the town next to Gretna, and I grew up on the West Bank) were underwater, there was no power. Speaking of looting, prior to the Gretna Police shutting down the bridge, looters set fire to the Oakwood Mall, which sits immediately off of LA Hwy 90 (or the West Bank Expressway, which is the elevated highway that continues off of the Greater New Orleans bridges). Besides this, as in New Orleans, there we people who defied the evacuation order and stayed in their homes, who required substantial emergency assistance for days after the storm, while there were others who stayed behind causing problems by looting at night.

So the Gretna Police, by this time overwhelmed and undermanned, stopped people from walking into Gretna. Where the hell where they going to go? LA 90 is an elevated highway that runs for ten miles or so (I'm guessing) before you run out of towns (Harvey, Marrero, Westwego), and you're in the marsh. What then?

Could the Gretna Police have acted better? Certainly, but I don't really know what they could have done. Allow people to break into homes, or wander the streets, where no one was allowed to travel at this point, anyway? Gretna isn't some affluent bedroom suburb, it's a lower middle class to middle class, racially integrated town. This was the WORST NATURAL DISASTER IN AMERICAN HISTORY, and some people made poor choices, but you have no idea the stress the people in these small city governments were under.

DON'T FORGET, HAD THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT RESPONDED APPROPRIATELY, WE WOULDN'T BE DISCUSSING THIS AT ALL.

It's easy to make this into a calculated, racially motivated act if you haven't been there, and have no idea of the scope of this disaster and the conditions EVERYONE had to deal with in the storm's aftermath. This last year has been hell for everyone, white and black, and the GREATEST RECOVERY in this country's history (as promised by our lying President as he stood before the St. Louis Cathedral with his own generators powering his flood lights) hasn't shown up.

[spotbird]

103. How do suggest those without cars,

and therefore "defied the evacuation order" were to get out? This particular obnoxiously transparent dodge is illogical and frequently repeated, but just stupid.


As to your argument that one must have been there to understand, were you in the Superdome? If not, using your own "reasoning" you don't understand, period. You can't have it both ways.

So now you say Gretna was devastated. If so, why not allow those who were imprisoned in? What was there to lose? What is the price of life?

[Nashvilliberal]

104. I said nothing about those without cars. . . .

And your knee-jerk reaction points to your lack of understanding of the events leading up to the storm, and the consequences of the storm and its aftermath. Many of the people who stayed behind (and I'm not talking about the indigent with no options) were simply hard-headed, and had ridden-out hurricanes their entire lives, and refused to leave (these were not the people in the Dome. These folks, by and large, rode out the storm in their homes). They simply underestimated the power of this storm. After the storm, however, many of these people required emergency assistance, thus placing additional burdens on local emergency and law enforcement personnel.

And no, I wasn't in the Superdome, and I certainly don't blame those poor people for trying to go SOMEWHERE. But I suspect the Gretna Police were just trying to hold it together in the midst of an impossible situation, barely able to cope with the needs of their own jurisdiction, and somebody made a bad decision in choosing how to cope with people fleeing New Orleans. ITS A GROSS OVERSIMPLIFICATION TO PAINT THIS AS A PURELY RACIAL ACT.

And yes, Gretna was devastated (and there's no "so now I say." You are responding to my first post on this subject). Many areas were under three feet of water. People were looting at night, and there was no electricity. But who was imprisoned? And "the price of life?" A little dramatic?

You tell me, since you're such an authority on the subject, had the Gretna police allowed them to continue walking down LA Hwy 90, where would they have gone?

[spotbird]

109. Dude, you don't have a clue, or don't care.

First, it is not true that all of those without a car were indignant. They were old, tourists, working poor, handicapped, or just not interested in auto ownership.

Second, this discussion is about those who were trapped in the Superdome and trying to escape, not about others who were elsewhere and stayed because they were just stubborn. Those people can be discussed elswhere. With that said, some of those who stayed and could have left stayed so because their jobs were of a nature that they would be needed immediately after the hurricane. I worked with evacuees who were in that situation as well as those who didn’t have transportation out.

Third, as to where they would have gone if they were allowed to cross. Ten miles wouldn't have been too far to walk for the healthy, but destination didn’t matter to them, escape was an end in itself. Where they were was hellish, hot, horrific, unsanitary doesn’t touch the filthy conditions, there was nowhere to hide and it was very, very dangerous. What is so difficult for you and those who share your view to understand about the conditions in the Superdome? The simple truth is nothing could be worse than their current circumstances, alone and outside would seem like the Waldorf. Recall that outsiders who were close and waiting to rescue them have weren’t permitted in. Perhaps if they could have escaped the caravans of outsiders begging to help could have ferried them away. My church van got as close as it could during this time and those there said the refusal to allow help was insane, and the Red Cross was worthless.

Fourth, it’s you need to get a clue. Your claim, made by all here who support the embargo, that only you and those who have relatives close understand the scope of the disaster is ludicrous and wrong. It is you who don’t understand the horrific ordeal those who were stopped from leaving were forced to endure. Their suffering is just not part of your equation when you defend the indefensible, if they mattered even the slightest to you then you'd understand that what happened was immoral.

[Nashvilliberal]

111. I'll say it slower, this time. . . .

What's with you and this car ownership thing? Here's the point: There were people IN GRETNA who stayed behind in their homes and apartments, and who required emergency attention from the Gretna Emergency and Police services, placing an additional strain on those departments. The gist of this is that local emergency and police departments (not just Gretna) were dealing with impossible circumstances and were at the point of breaking. Gretna was in just as bad shape as much of New Orleans. It was no safe haven. Was it a bad decision to turn them back? Yes. Was it simply racially motivated? Almost certainly not.

Ultimately, this is the point: While I'm very sorry that the people on the bridge were turned back by the Gretna Police, their suffering was no greater than thousands of others in the Dome or the Convention Center or in areas around the city (I was back in Harvey, next to Gretna, six days after Katrina hit, on the second day that residents were allowed back into Jefferson Parish). The ENTIRE city has suffered terribly since the storm, and what happened on that bridge is a sad footnote in a very, very long list of tragedies. When's the last time you heard about aid to the region on the news? Katrina is still THE NEWS, EVERYDAY in New Orleans.

If you really want to direct your anger in a positive direction, call your Congressman and Senator, and ask them to help force Insurance Companies to pay the legitimate claims of homeowners. The people on the bridge suffered for a few days, but there are people in New Orleans who have lost what they worked THEIR ENTIRE LIVES FOR.

[spotbird]

112. If those trying to escape were

middle and upper middle class white people they'd have been allowed out. If you truly believe otherwise then you are either impossibly naive or just simpleminded, either way you're wrong. If the victims trapped at the Superdome were white they would not have been treated like animals in the first place. Only a liar would pretend that the truth of all the horror surrounding this situation wasn't fundamentally racist.

If you want to fictionalize the reality go to Washington, or get a job in the mainstream media. I live the reality based world.

[Nashvilliberal]

114. If if were a skiff, we'd all go for a ride. . . .

That's what we say in Plaquemines Parish, where I grew up. Want to see devastation? Google it.

You don't wish to discuss the concrete details of this event, because they just might not fit your conspiracy theory. So, answer me this: If the people in the Dome were trapped and treated like animals while they were there (and I don't disagree with this at all), then who were the RACISTS committing these atrocities? The Dome is in New Orleans, and New Orleans has a BLACK Mayor,and a BLACK Chief of Police, and the Metropolitan Government is predominately Black.

My point upthread is that the real criminals in this debacle work for the Federal Government, the only governmental entity with the resources and training to deal with a disaster of this magnitude. But that didn't fit into your Gretna Police Are Racists mantra.

And real reason help didn't come faster from the Federal Government is that most of the victims were POOR. They could have been Green, and it wouldn't have mattered. But they were poor, and therefore powerless, so why hurry.

Stomp your feet and call me a liar all you like. I was up on my parent's neighbor's roofs a week after Katrina nailing tarpaper so that roofs wouldn't leak, cleaning out filthy refrigerators, and pulling out ruined carpet.

Where were you?

[spotbird]

117. LOL

Conspiracy theory? You're as funny as you are misguided.

You and yours argue ad naseuum that unless one was there they don't know. I don't share your commitment to the belief that the only true knowledge is obtained first hand, so where I was is irrelevant. However, if you believe what you say, that one must have experienced a situation to judge it, since you weren't there when it happened you can't know.

[Nashvilliberal]

120. You're an acrobat when it comes to ducking pertinent questions:

You wrote:

"If the victims trapped at the Superdome were white they would not have been treated like animals in the first place. Only a liar would pretend that the truth of all the horror surrounding this situation wasn't fundamentally racist."

I maintain that the reason for the horrible neglect of the people at the Dome and Convention Center resulted from a total breakdown of local government infrastructure and poor planning, and the failure of the Federal Government to respond in a timely fashion to their plight.

New Orleans has a BLACK Mayor, and a BLACK Chief of Police, and a predominately BLACK City Government. Where is the RACISM that caused the people in the Dome to be treated so horribly?

Please answer this question.

[spotbird]

121. It is in you. nt

[Nashvilliberal]

122. Facts are a bitch. . . .

When your best response is "I know you are, but what am I?", I'd say you've answered my question.

I'm done.

[Doremus]

73. Wow. Just wow.

These people were fleeing death and destruction. Running for their lives. And you're worried they were going to "live" in abandoned houses? For a moment let's assume you're right (although I don't recall ever reading that tidbit in all the accounts I've seen) and these refugees, many elderly or in poor health, did take shelter in someone's abandoned house until they could be evacuated ..... WTF IS WRONG WITH THAT?

You think they'd loot the place? Put the TV on Granny's lap or just toss her out of her wheelchair in favor of a payload? Hit the liquor cabinet and go on a raping/pillaging rampage?

Your obvious racism has blinded you to the possibility that poor African Americans seeking refuge from a lethal storm and its aftermath are capable of respecting the property of others.

Your support of an outrageously racist police action is revolting and straight out of the GOP handbook.

[OzarkDem]

78. Where do you get the idea

that evacuees wanted to go into people's houses in Gretna? They wanted to get out of their section of NO and get to transportation or shelters.

To say they wanted to go into someone's private home is false and inflammatory.

[anotherdrew]

87. WTF are you even talking about? no one was moving those people into houses

the police could have just kept everyone moving right on thru gretna, which was what their job would have been had they been doing it.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[musette_sf]

7. if I remember correctly, Foti

was the head of the Orleans Parish Sheriff's Department for, like, forever, prior to the state AG post. Charlie's just protecting his pal on the Thin Blue Line over in Gretna.

[JPZenger]

8. Correct

I read Foti's official biography. For most of his career, he was the Sheriff for Criminal Matters of Orleans Parish, which includes New Orleans.

[ThomCat]

9. I want to see justice for the people who were abandoned

in jail cells as the water level increased.

I read that some people who should have only been held overnight ended up imprisoned for months because there was no processes for processing them. People whose sentences were up were kept indefinitely. People were denied attorneys and prevented from seeing Judges.

There should be hell to pay. There is no reason we as a nation could not send people down there to manage this. Even people in jail deserve justice.
x(

[Doremus]

74. Hear, hear. n/t

[redqueen]

10. Thank goodness for the ACLU.

If you can, donate now to support efforts like this. Something tells me we're going to need them more and more in the coming years.

http://action.aclu.org/site/PageServer?pagename=FJ_donationhome

[Threedifferentones]

11. As I understand it there were way more refugees

than citizens in the community ordinarily. They had no transportation to help beyond their borders, and had been devastated by Katrina. I saw a 60 minutes report on the incident, and the mayor insisted the town simply did not have the resources to feed or shelter even half the people on the bridge, let alone the thousands more that were coming.

If that was true, then realisticly he is risking disaster if he lets them in, because they could easily become desperate and start taking what they could. In other words the best possible outcome of letting them in would have been that they starved miserably on those streets instead of the city's, and the worse case scenario was that he and all his citizens would have been starving with them.

The mayor's points may have been a ploy to cover up other motives, but I found him to be genuine and 60 minutes did not provide any facts indicating the town was better stocked than he claimed.

[Ripley]

12. What in the fuck are you talking about?

These are fellow American citizens fleeing a disaster area. Why assume they are criminal? What the Hell has happened to this country where everyone is on their own and should die like a dog in the road if they undergo a disaster. How about some compassion? That sheriff should have offered them medical assistance and at the very least WATER. Or would their well run dry? FUCKERS.

[Threedifferentones]

15. You are being unrealistic.

They have had no aid from the oustide for days. They are devastated by a storm. They do not know when any aid will arrive, and NO they CANNOT be certain that a crowd of desperate people will not turn violent. I would if I were desperate enough, and even if you wouldn't, people do. That combined with the fact they could provide no aid to the crowd makes it a foolish decision.

The obligation to help other people in need vanishes if their is nothing you can do and your own life is at risk. This conversation is pointless unless one of us does real research on just what the town had for how many residents, but assuming the mayor did not greatly exagerrate his case I think we should grant some understanding to a community that was desperate, broken and cut off from all help.

If the mayor was not truthful in the interview I saw he should go to jail for a long time, there is no doubt about that.

[Ripley]

16. Turn on your TV.

Look at all those Lebanese people walking over a bridge into Syria. Are the Syrians pointing guns at them saying "Sorry! All Full! You might loot us." How can You defend this abhorrent behavior? May You never find Yourself in need and if so, I hope someone actually offers You a hand instead of a fucking loaded gun in the face. Especially if Your kids are with You or You are injured.

[Threedifferentones]

18. You have put so many words in my mouth

that this discussion is pointless. You're not out for justice, you're looking for people to crucify. I never said anything about Israel's over reaction. I never said that people should hurt others instead of helping them. I merely pointed out that when loss of life inevitable, the best you can do is limit that loss as best you can.

Everyone involved was exhausted and paniced, and we do not know what the people who made the decision were really thinking. But for you to equate those desperate people with the Iraeli army out of hand is ridiculous.

[Ripley]

72. New Word: Analogy

a·nal·o·gy Audio pronunciation of "analogy" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-nl-j)
n. pl. a·nal·o·gies

1. a. Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar.
b. A comparison based on such similarity. See Synonyms at likeness.


I used the example of Lebanese fleeing a disaster (a war zone) by walking across a bridge into an entirely different country. Syria did not turn them away by firing shots over their heads because they feared they would become a criminal element or they lacked basic resources. Now when we compare that situation to people in a metropolitan city in America who are trying to flee a disaster (post hurricane) and escape filthy water, unbearable heat and have experienced trauma, injury and dehydration we are told it is an entirely different situation. Yes, here's how it differs: The Lebanese must dodge bombs, bullets and artillery shells while fleeing a WAR ZONE. If the people on the bridge were the Enemy of America, why don't You just say so?

I have no clue why You think I am trying to crucify the poor Sheriff; I did not type one word about Israel's "over reaction"; and as far as loss of life is inevitable? Whose? Are You saying the people on the bridge would die anyway, so the Sheriff and his crew should have just shot them to limit whose loss of life? Who was he protecting? Who is this Us and Them?

Um, where did I equate those desperate people with the Israeli army? You are just making shit up now.

[pitohui]

27. ripley you need to turn off your teevee

it has obviously given you the wrong idea, katrina was not a tiny compact storm and no one could walk over any bridge to safety, there was certainly no safety to be had in gretna, which too was a dangerous area in a mandatory evacuation area

that safety was over that bridge is a LIE of the first water -- people who walked over that bridge and away from the helicopters would have walked to their deaths

you need to turn off the teevee for awhile and simply come down here and drive the area to see the extent of the devastation for yourself, you simply don't understand and you don't know what you are talking about

[Erika]

65. Walked to their deaths?

Did the white cops hate the blacks that much?

[RangerSmith]

71. well said... n/t

[LostinVA]

21. Oh.My.God.

[RamboLiberal]

23. According to 2 SF Paramedics with the group the police

stole their food and water.

And when exhausted hurricane victims set up temporary shelters on the highway, Gretna police came back a few hours later, fired shots into the air again, told people to "get the f -- off the bridge" and used a helicopter to blow down all the makeshift shelters, the paramedics said.

When the officers had pushed the crowd back far enough, one of them took the group's food and water, dropped it in the trunk of a patrol car and drove away.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/09/09/BAGL1EL1KH1.DTL

[pitohui]

26. but they were fleeing into ANOTHER disaster area

the reality is that katrina affected NOT just the superdome in new orleans but a huge area extending hundreds of miles, i really wish people would inform themselves a little before they comment, because jeff parish was ALSO in the disaster area

in this area the fantasy that you could walk over that bridge and be out of the disaster area is a fantasy held by two kinds of people --

--those so uneducated and illiterate that they have never been out of new orleans proper and literally have no idea of the size of the world

--those who are taking advantage of the uneducated to get them whipped up and to self-promote themselves

it's wrong to evacuate people from their homes because it's too dangerous to stay -- and then allow thousands of people to enter that dangerous area

gretna couldn't win, if they had allowed the people to enter the town and die there because they were away from the main area where people were being picked up, they'd still be vilified by the aclu and their own citizens as well!

[Erika]

57. Get real. Gretna cops said they were protecting property

No one was in danger except those harassed by the police force.

[Erika]

58. I thank God for the ACLU

It's a vital protection against what W is trying to do to our Constitution.

[spotbird]

81. Do YOU UNDERSTAND

what was going on in the Superdome?

Under a bush in Gretna would have been safer. Assuming you had no transportation out, and you were forced into the Superdome, would you have tried to escape?

[RamboLiberal]

14. In Douglas Brinkley's Book "The Great Deluge"

It was shown as racism. Majority of those on the bridge were black. A shopping center had earlier been looted and burned. It was pure southern racism to keep the blacks fleeing NOLA from coming in to this town and "looting"!

Really showed some things never change. Caused me to have déjà vu flashbacks to the 60's marches.

[Threedifferentones]

17. You are ignorant to assume southerners are racist nowdays and

have obviously not spent much time in the SE of America recently. I know there is still racism in the South, but to assume that race was the motive just because the communities were de facto segregated is unfair. Communities are like that in the vast majority of American cities, and I will bet the same thing could have happened there just as easily. You assume its racism, however, because it happened in La. That is unfair, especially considering there seems to be evidence to show the town really could not spare aid, and since they had no idea when the federal government would get around to helping them.

[RamboLiberal]

19. Not saying it couldn't happen in the North

But the South has a very sorry history that I grew up watching during the 60's. It damn well reminded me of the of the attacks on peaceful marchers being beaten, firehosed, etc in the South during the 60's. I grew up watching the ugly taunts by otherwise ordinary looking whites in the South as little children were escorted by Federal troops cause the local cops couldn't be trusted in to schools. I watched governors like Wallace vow that blacks would not go to white schools and universities.

I seriously doubt if a group of whites would've been turned back at those bridges by the police and I do not apologize for my remarks. It was damn obvious to a lot of us watching that there was rampant racism in play during Katrina and by many of those on the ground!

And may I add the worst racism was by the indifference of Bush and the rest of his evil administration too busy doing photo ops and vacationing to even turn on the TV to see what was happening in LA, MS, and AL!

[pitohui]

28. a group of whites WAS turned back

some stupid tourists also tried to walk across the bridge and were turned back -- and the story was on DU and some other progressive sites because the stupid tourists never got a clue that gretna was not a safe place to go, i suppose they honestly believe that just over the rainbow was some fantasy land where the hurricane did not strike -- instead of a dirty dangerous hell that was ALSO torn up by the storm and which was, in places, on fire


they're probably spreading this story to this day, because they never bothered to learn that the extent of the storm went way beyond just new orleans and it's more dramatic to be sinned against than to be a moron

[Doremus]

75. Oh, now Gretna wasn't safe. Upthread you said the risk was to property

left behind by evacuated homeowners.

I think the ugly truth is more accurately revealed in your previous posts.

[spotbird]

82. They were with blacks. nt

[me b zola]

115. And that group of white have said that they saw racism

I saw those people interviewed. They said that they were almost the only whites in the group on the bridge and that they could not help but believe that racism was involved.

[Nashvilliberal]

105. Funny, I remember Boston during the busing riots. . . .

I was amazed to see suburban housewives throwing eggs and bricks at school busses carrying black school children into white suburbs. I'd never seen anything like that in New Orleans, where I grew up. I guess it's all perspective.

http://baldilocks.typepad.com/baldilocks/2004/07/long_run.html

On edit, I don't endorse the content of the blog on which the photo of Ted Landsmark being attacked during an anti-integration demonstration is posted. It's just a site which happened to have the pic I was looking for posted, which underscores the point that racism is everywhere, not just the South.

[LostinVA]

22. Ummm... I've lived in NC and VA since 1987

Southerners are racist. So are Northerners. I grew up in NJ, so I know what I'm talking about. The difference? THere is a certain type of institutionalized racism in the South among certain communities that rarely exists in the North (though I'd say it does in parts of the Midwest). What happened on the bridge resulted directly from racism. Saying people in teh South aren't still racist is dishonest.

I survived Fran, which was a very, very bad hurricane on the NC coast. Specifically Wil,mington, which is the area worst hit. Fran was worse than Katrina itself. Lots of people were blocked off from Wilmington on barrier islands in different communities. The Wilmington PD certainly didn't meet them at the Wrightsville BEach bridges with guns. EVeryone in the area helped one another in any way: sharing ice, food, grills, chainsaws, tarps, protecting against possible looters. The community came together: black, white, etc.

But the Gretna Bridge incident? Nothing but White Flight Racist Fear.

Am appalled at some of the dreck you posted. It's so inhumane. Seriously. I can't read any more of your apologies for this action. May the gods protect YOU from such shameful selfishness if you're ever in the same place.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ima_sinnic]

41. having grown up in the North and now lived in the sorry South for

the past 12 years I can say the South is WAAAY more racist than the North. It is shockingly, hatefully racist. I was married to a black man (I am white) and was constantly appalled at how he was treated in North Carolina and Florida. Quite different from what he experienced in New England. I hate the South and can't wait to get the hell out of this ignorant place.

[Erika]

66. Any white cops shooting at blacks trying to escape a disaster

brings up questions. Especially when the white cops are on the safe comfortable side of the bridge. I don't care what part of the country.

[mhr]

69. Tyler Texas - I Have Close Friends That Live There

Racism is alive and well in the South.

Saying otherwise just highlights your ignorance and papers over a problem that people would rather not deal with anymore.

[RamboLiberal]

20. Bullshit - A Christian Town would do what it can for God's Children

Here's an account I damn well remember from a couple of paramedics from out-of-town who were with the group trying to go across the bridge. Look it may not have been the fault of town people - but the cops were racist IMHO!

We organized ourselves and the 200 of us set off for the bridge with great excitement and hope. As we marched pasted the convention center, many locals saw our determined and optimistic group and asked where we were headed. We told them about the great news. Families immediately grabbed their few belongings and quickly our numbers doubled and then doubled again. Babies in strollers now joined us, people using crutches, elderly clasping walkers and others people in wheelchairs. We marched the 2-3 miles to the freeway and up the steep incline to the Bridge. It now began to pour down rain, but it did not dampen our enthusiasm.

As we approached the bridge, armed Gretna sheriffs formed a line across the foot of the bridge. Before we were close enough to speak, they began firing their weapons over our heads. This sent the crowd fleeing in various directions. As the crowd scattered and dissipated, a few of us inched forward and managed to engage some of the sheriffs in conversation. We told them of our conversation with the police commander and of the commander’s assurances. The sheriffs informed us there were no buses waiting. The commander had lied to us to get us to move.

We questioned why we couldn’t cross the bridge anyway, especially as there was little traffic on the 6-lane highway. They responded that the West Bank was not going to become New Orleans and there would be no Superdomes in their City. These were code words for if you are poor and black, you are not crossing the Mississippi River and you were not getting out of New Orleans.

Our small group retreated back down Highway 90 to seek shelter from the rain under an overpass. We debated our options and in the end decided to build an encampment in the middle of the Ponchartrain Expressway on the center divide, between the O’Keefe and Tchoupitoulas exits. We reasoned we would be visible to everyone, we would have some security being on an elevated freeway and we could wait and watch for the arrival of the yet to be seen buses.

http://www.labournet.net/world/0509/katrina3.html

From a woman with a battery powered radio we learned that the media was talking about us. Up in full view on the freeway, every relief and news organizations saw us on their way into the City. Officials were being asked what they were going to do about all those families living up on the freeway? The officials responded they were going to take care of us. Some of us got a sinking feeling. "Taking care of us" had an ominous tone to it.

Unfortunately, our sinking feeling (along with the sinking City) was correct. Just as dusk set in, a Gretna Sheriff showed up, jumped out of his patrol vehicle, aimed his gun at our faces, screaming, "Get off the fucking freeway". A helicopter arrived and used the wind from its blades to blow away our flimsy structures. As we retreated, the sheriff loaded up his truck with our food and water.

Once again, at gunpoint, we were forced off the freeway. All the law enforcement agencies appeared threatened when we congregated or congealed into groups of 20 or more. In every congregation of "victims" they saw "mob" or "riot". We felt safety in numbers. Our "we must stay together" was impossible because the agencies would force us into small atomized groups.

In the pandemonium of having our camp raided and destroyed, we scattered once again. Reduced to a small group of 8 people, in the dark, we sought refuge in an abandoned school bus, under the freeway on Cilo Street. We were hiding from possible criminal elements but equally and definitely, we were hiding from the police and sheriffs with their martial law, curfew and shoot-to-kill policies.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/090805A.shtml

[Erika]

56. How very sad

And downright infuriating. I won't be visiting Gretna.

[DoYouEverWonder]

68. So Gretna does have a town hall, civic center

or HS Gym where they could allowed these people to come in and shelter temporarily?

Once they were there the Gretna officials couldn't pick up a phone and let HS/FEMA they had a group of people that needs assistance, food and water.

If the town had already been evacuted there was probably plenty of food at the local supermarket going bad that these people could have been allowed to eat. However the Gretna police choose to treat these people worse then dogs instead.

Once again from the Repug Whitie POV, property is much more important then people.

[Blue_Tires]

13. i hope they dig up and reveal the truth for all to see

nt

[pitohui]

29. the truth has been revealed and case closed

it's just that many people don't want to accept it

[DoYouEverWonder]

32. Were you there?

The you have no clue what the truth is.

[Patchuli]

35. Not to butt into your 'discussion'

but I believe this poster said he was from Greater New Orleans in post #31 of this thread.

[spotbird]

85. You know nothing,

but your hate.

[Patchuli]

99. Who exactly do I "hate?"

I'm just pointing out something missed.

Actually, I love everyone 'cept pinheads.

[spotbird]

102. "those so uneducated and illiterate that

they have never been out of New Orleans proper and literally have no idea of the size of the world."

Only a truly uneducated, illiterate and hateful person would assume that those inside of the Superdome couldn't understand that escape was superior to that plight.

"the residents of gretna were NOT allowed to be there, you are saying that outsiders should be given preference when the people who lived there were not allowed to be there"

Only a hateful person would believe that those who evacuated Gretna and were safe, had the same need to reenter as those trapped in the Superdome had to enter Gretna. That concept escapes you because you simply cannot understand that the lives of those who wished to escape were more valuable than the property in devastated Gretna.(or maybe it wasn't devastated, not depending on which position you and your kind are arguing).

I could go on, but it wouldn't matter, you can't put yourself in the place of those who were suffering. However, let me assure you that if you had captive in the superdome, your outrage at those who prevented your escape would be uncontainable.

As to your other point that the poster who lived in NO knows more of what happened. That poster was not in the Superdome and has offered no firs hand accounts about the condition of Gretna in the days following the flood. What that means is s/he only believes she knows, not that she actually knows.

[Patchuli]

107. I didn't make any such point

You are mistaken. I didn't express any opinion on what happened in Gretna. I pointed out to DoYouEverWonder that pitohui stated that he lives in Greater New Orleans. Where you got all this about me "hating anyone" is a mystery. I'm on the side of the hurricane victims, thank you.

[spotbird]

110. Sorry, my mistake.

Please forgive me. I had you confused with pitohui.

[Patchuli]

113. Don't worry about it!

I understand why you are emotional about this - I am too. There was absolutely NO excuse for any of these officials, from the pResident on down to let down our citizens in time of need. I am furious that they were left to literally die while our so-called leaders jetted around, eating cake, buying expensive shoes and house-shopping. FEMA is a pathetic shadow of what it was in 1994 when I got to ride the Northridge Quake. FEMA was excellent then.

As for those cops, they and their supervisors should all be fired and charged with crimes against humanity. I HATE BIGOTRY! The thought of what they put frightened people through makes me so angry...especially for elderly folks and little ones!! gggrrrrrrrrrr

[spotbird]

118. It became personal

to me once I heard the accounts of those who were there. I still can't believe the stories they told me happened in America. It is shameful for all of us.

Thanks for taking my mistake so kindly.

[Patchuli]

119. It could be personal because it could happen to us too

We live in the Sacramento valley. Our levees are old and not trustworthy. It's flooded horribly here before and could be worse because developers built homes directly in the rivers' flood plains. Arnold Schwarzenegger, to his actual credit, stood * down and told him we need fed help to get the levees up to standards. * refused and Arnie is not his biggest fan anymore. It's sad because it could happen to any of us. We should all expect our government to do its job in times of disasters. This government is a bad joke...

I love my fellow man but what really got me were the animals affected by the hurricanes. Doris Day personally paid to have a bunch airlifted out and brought here to Sac. I love her! :loveya:

[Patchuli]

108. I just figured out what's the deal with you

You either need glasses or ought to read a little slower. My handle is Patchuli. You confused me with pitohui. I live thousands of miles away from Louisiana but my area opened it's doors to hurricane victims. Slow down, breathe deeply...

[DoYouEverWonder]

33. Maybe you would like to educate yourself

before you post more freeper crap.

Here's a thread from last August when these events were occuring. Read down to the reports from the NH National Guard and maybe you'll have a clue what the racists over in Gretna are really all about.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4733483

[JPZenger]

34. Exaggerated Stories of Violence Hurt Everyone

During the worst of the Katrina debacle, there were widespread rumors of murderous gangs. The stories were reported by the national media. Most of those stories (including murders in the Superbowl) turned out to be lies. I believe the Gretna police's reaction can be partially explained by those rumors. Gretna officials also said they had not been provided with any supplies for evacuees. That doesn't excuse their conduct, but it does help explain it.

The exaggerated stories of shootings also caused many drivers of evacuation buses to refuse to drive into New Orleans. The rumors also caused officials to cancel flights by medical evacuation helicopters to the hospitals.

[pitohui]

42. this was more than rumors

the west bank was on fire, oakwood shopping center was on fire and i think it has since been condemned and torn down, in any event, it's gone now, these crimes weren't imagined, the police had their hands full with a very difficult situation beyond their ability to control

look, nobody who knows me imagines that i have any great enthusiasm for jeff parish law enforcement officials, they are racists, but in this situation, the best option BY FAR was to stop people from crossing that bridge and screwing themselves up even more

it would be more racist to let the people just wander away from any chance of rescue and die

[Erika]

49. So why shoot at them?

Were they seen as wild dogs?

[pitohui]

60. they were seen as an out of control mob

which it sounds like they were

if people don't listen when you ask nicely, yes, stronger measures become necessary

it is sad but it's reality

actual example -- my friend is trying to slash her wrist, my nice discussion of why that is wrong doesn't impress her, so yes, i smack her around and get the razor away from her, dare you tell me i was wrong?

[Erika]

64. No, there is video showing there was no mob

In fact, a few whites tried to make the case for help for all of them. These whites saw racism and filed reports.

[Oak2004]

101. Do you know that fire is a common result of FLOODING? n/t

[me b zola]

116. Do you believe that those fires were set by "looters"?

lol. The fires first began in the industrial center on the river. Do you think that those business owners didn't contact their insurence companies to find out that they would not be covered because it was considered water damage? Yeah, those "roving bands of looters" sure were awfully convient for some.

I'd bet our home that 90% of those fires (if not more) were set by the owners who wanted to recoup some of their losses.

[Erika]

47. The white people on the bridge go against your assertions.

They were just people seeking help. It amazes me how the rightwingers abhor these people because they did not seek help. But when they did seek help from whites, they were locked out and intimidated. As W says racism still exists.

[pitohui]

40. you've got to be kidding

how many decades have you lived in the gno area and how many of those were spent in jeff parish? i know all about it, and there is REAL crap that they've gotten away with

you people need to learn proportion and tactics

trying to attack the city of gretna or jefferson parish on this issue EMPOWERS racists, why, because everybody here knows that the bridge complaint is ridiculous and prosecuting the mayor, sheriff etc. for having good sense is just not gonna fly w. people

[ima_sinnic]

44. the "good sense" to take food away from disaster victims?

your "unChristian" attitude is appalling.

[Erika]

48. Sorry, you're wrong

Anyone municipality who locks the needy out in a disaster is not seen in a good light.

[Erika]

50. No, the case is not closed. Gretna is racist.

I looked up their demographics. They don't do black people.

[autorank]

38. Don't know what people are quareling about here. Participants admit

the acts that took place, openly. The witnesses are credible, highly.

Take a look at the two snippets below. The people tried to evacuate the Convention Center, they
were denied entrance to Gretna. The Police Chief admits that, defends that. I'm sure nobody on
this thread thinks that's ok because the Police Chief's reasoning is the reasoning a monster.

Take a look http://tinyurl.com/oamch

[AtomicKitten]

36. It is just outrageous that this information has been concealed.

I had read reports of this in the Guardian.

Our MSM is worthless.

[pitohui]

43. it hasn't been concealed from anyone

it has been endlessly discussed and beaten to death and, in the end, since it is right not to allow people into a dangerous area wwhere they will be left to die of dehydration and heat stroke when they are already gathered in an area where rescue helicopters are coming for them and there is some chance they can be saved in time -- then it kind of dribbled out

there is surprisingly little informed comment or common sense being displayed in this thread, except for the guy who then got shouted down and basically told he was going to hell!

what angers me is that no supplies were air lifted and dropped, i think some of the panic and dehydration could have been stopped had there been sufficient water, food, and medics -- lack of water causes delusions

there was only one medic at the superdome

but keep in mind there weren't ANY in gretna, the town had been evacuated

[Erika]

53. Gretna cops used shotguns to turn back evacuees

There is no excuse in America for that. Gretna had food and water, and shelter.

[pitohui]

62. no they didn't

you have no idea of the size of this disaster

gretna was on fire

they had nothing

i live in the gno area, where do you live? alaska? seriously!

[Erika]

67. No, Gretna was not on fire

Seriously,

[DoYouEverWonder]

86. Are you making this up has you go along

or are you delusional. Half the things you claim never happened. No, Gretna was not on fire. Make up your mind, your story keeps changing with the wind.

[autorank]

37. I can't tell you how strongly I support this. K&R

That was the most appaling moment, event I think, in terms of pure hair pulling frustration. The animals who blocked that bridge belong in jail now. They belonged in jail shortly after the information was released. The fact that they walk around free is proff that our Department of Justice is really a Department of Nothting but Injustice. Andy of Mayberry with Barney and Miss Bea could do a better job than they do. They are a disgrace.

In a moment reminissent of his days covering the Willowbrook scandal in New york almost 30 years ago, Geraldo Revera spoke the truth from the Louisiana Convention Center: "Why can't these people just march out of here and over that bridge?" he implored, outraged and frantic. That's when I first heard of it.

Of course the Corporate Media, a separate business unit of the * Group Intl., did little with the story, just next to nothing. Would we expect any less?

TPM Cafe http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/9/10/94823/6592

" Since then, other eyewitness accounts confirmed that police officers sealed this bridge, close to the Center Convention, prohibiting people from escaping the New Orleans trap.

See Denise Moore’s story , for instance. Or you can read this account from two San Francisco paramedics, Larry Bradshaw and Lorrie Beth Slonsky: sheriffs even fired their weapons over their heads to dissuade the crowd from going ahead. The police explained that they wanted “no Superdomes in their city".

On Sunday (4 September), New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin was interviewed on a special edition of ABC's Nightline. He explained that when people tried to cross the bridge, they “were met (at the county line) with attack dogs and police officers with machine guns saying ‘You have to turn back...’.”

Gretna, in Jefferson Parish, is a mainly white suburban town of 18,000 inhabitants. In the aftermath of Katrina, three quarters of the inhabitants still had electricity and running water. The Gretna Police Chief Arthur Lawson admitted that he gave the order to block the bridge, explaining that there was "no food, no water, no shelter" in his nice town.

“If we had opened the bridge, he said, our city would have looked like New Orleans does now: looted, burned and pillaged

SF Chronicle Chip Johnson Sept. 9, 2006 http://tinyurl.com/mabaw

So late Wednesday afternoon, the group set out for a bridge called the Crescent City Connection, where they would find the help they so desperately needed. But when they arrived atop the highway, the paramedics said, they were met by more police officers, this time from neighboring Gretna, La., who weren't letting anyone pass.

"If I weren't there, and hadn't witnessed it for myself, I don't think I would have ever believed this," Bradshaw said.

The officers fired warning shots into the air and then leveled their weapons at members of the crowd, Bradshaw said. He approached, hands in the air, displaying his paramedic's badge.

"They told us that there would be no Superdomes in their city,'' the couple wrote. "These were code words that if you are poor and black, you are not crossing the Mississippi River -- and you weren't getting out of New Orleans.''

And when exhausted hurricane victims set up temporary shelters on the highway, Gretna police came back a few hours later, fired shots into the air again, told people to "get the f -- off the bridge" and used a helicopter to blow down all the makeshift shelters, the paramedics said.

[Blue_Tires]

46. shameful.....

regular bunch of humanitarians you have there!

[autorank]

51. Right. They're proud of it. There's no mystery. It was admitted.

I remember when George Wallace tried to block the integration of the University of Alabama, blocked the entrance. There was a big guy from DOJ, Katzenbach, and a bunch of heat, saying get out of the way because the school is being integrated. That was that.

Where was the Department of Justice. Oh, I guess Alberto was just too busy writing memos to justify torture.

Shameful, disgraceful, disgusting but worse, they've stolen the votes of the exiles:

The Disenfranchisement of Katrina's Survivors

As a post script to the article, only a fraction of the 200,000 evacuees were able to vote. Maybe 10-15 thousand. Mission accomplished.

[AtomicKitten]

123. they were honored by their community

for protecting them from the evil evacuees

disgusting

[Erika]

52. Yet so many freeper types cussed out the blacks

for not trying to walk out. The blacks were met by white racist cops and their guns. This story might have not even been told if the whites hadn't been with the blacks trying to walk out.

[autorank]

54. Erika, I think you're right. The paramedics from the SF Bay

area were rightfully shocked. They couldn't conceive of it happening in there part of the world, and they're very likely right. The macro-version of the disgrace falls on the indifferent tyrant * but the championship round for locals is taken by these idiot Sheriffs. They need to go to jail themselves.

[Erika]

55. I called the Gretna police department at that time

and asked for Lester Maddox. It took them several minutes to catch on.

[autorank]

59. That was a break, should have asked for Dr. Mengele. They would

have taken an hour for that one.

[pitohui]

63. uh right

in the middle of disaster when people were dying and their city on fire, you called the police dept. w, a practical joke

i know you must be fibbing because only a sociopath would do something so evil

[LA lady]

80. You really can't imagine!!

Pitohui, You are fighting a losing battle trying to get them to comprehend. . Those who were not here have no idea of the chaos. It was not just NEW ORLEANS. The entire Gulf coast was decimated . No one had anything and going through Gretna was getting them nowhere.

[spotbird]

83. It was leaving somewhere.

You just don't get it.

[spotbird]

84. You mean she kept the police

away from keeping people hostage in the Super Dome, where they had no protection and they had to shit on the floor?

She did a public service, the evil is in you.

[LA lady]

89. Why do people not from Louisiana think they KNOW!!!

They would have been doing the same in Gretna! It had no services either! Interstate90 was closed, there was no where to go. Nagin sent people there and lied to them, he didn't even bother to forewarn the officials in Gretna. It was a mess.

Hurricane Katrina controversy
The City of Gretna made news after its police force participated, along with Crescent City Connection Police and Jefferson Parish Sheriff's deputies, in a road block on the Crescent City Connection Bridge in the days following Hurricane Katrina. The purpose was to stop evacuees from crossing over into the evacuated communities on the west bank of the Mississippi River. Gretna Police had charge of west bank-bound lanes, while Jefferson Parish deputies controlled the east bank-bound lanes and the bridge police closed the center transit lanes.

Initially, as many as 6,000 evacuees were permitted to cross and were shuttled out of the area on buses; however that operation was eventually discontinued as available fuel supplies were exhausted. Without transportation or sufficient supplies of food or water, west bank officials determined that they were unable to further assist the evacuees. It was also believed at that time that federal relief efforts and supplies were soon to be concentrated in the downtown area of New Orleans. The decision to stop further evacuees from crossing the river was then made after Oakwood Mall was looted and burned, allegedly by evacuees from the east bank of New Orleans. A unified local police decision was made to lock down all areas. Due to the lack of effective communications during the crisis, some New Orleans police officers independently continued to direct evacuees to buses across the bridge that were no longer operational. The inevitable confrontation occurred on the section of the bridge controlled by the Gretna police and warning shots were fired over the heads of desperate evacuees who had been misdirected onto the bridge.

Some activists alleged racism; officials in Gretna and Jefferson Parish defended the actions of their police officers as necessary and proper during such a crisis. The Gretna City Council susequently passed a resolution supporting the decision and Gretna Mayor Ronnie C. Harris said, "This wasn't just one man's decision. The whole community backs it."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretna,_Louisiana

[spotbird]

92. Wikipedia is not authoritative.

I don't have to be raped, hungry, hot, thirsty, abandoned, without medical care and required to defecate on the floor to know that escape is critical. Since you weren't there and you insist that first hand experience is the only way to know what was necessary, your arguments fail by your own requirements.

Gretna wasn't in as bad a condition as many other areas. That's the fact. What the police did there is Naziesque.

[LA lady]

93. I don't have my location hidden

Where the F do you think I was!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You may have been sitting in Nebraska or something, i don't know, but my whole family (over 45 of us) were here. We were in Kenner, Gretna, Westwego, Mandeville and Slidell.


But eeexxxccccuuuuusssse, me. I know nothing.

[spotbird]

94. But not at the Superdome

If you were there, shitting on the floor in front of everyone, you'd have a right to say the suffering in the Superdome was superior to crossing the bridge and sleeping under a tree. It sounds like you were someplace safe.

If you understood the other side of the story, then you'd have standing under your requirements. Since you weren't there, your opinion that white people's property is more valuable than black people's lives is no more credible than my position that that is a really sick perspective.

[intheflow]

39. I would love for this story to grow legs.

:kick: to get it further on its way.

[Erika]

45. The white people testified it was racist in context

Gretna didn't want those blacks in their community. No way.

[cap]

70. it's sad... people who had no other means were trying to walk out

and the community across the bridge wouldnt take them...

Law and order has nothing to do with this. If the cops were so concerned with law and order, they would have established a cordoned off waiting area that was physically safe and secure. They would have held people there, gotten the community behind them to take them in or give them tents or even bedsheets to use as tents. What would have been so wrong with a white person taking in a black person under these circumstances?

[lonestarnot]

76. Being held hostage on a bridge by the police on a bridge

because one is poor and black is unbearably shameful. Shame, shame, shame on you police.

[Canuckistanian]

77. "Why can't they just let them walk out of here?"

Remember Geraldo Rivera's impassioned on-camera plea to the authorities? As I recall, he pointed to place not far away and said, "Over there is freedom".

[Feron]

88. My two cents

The police didn't have the resources to ferry people to safety. Shelters were full and supplies were dwindling if not outright gone. In Washington Parish, officials looted a store in order to feed the people already in their shelter. Gasoline was also scarce unless you were able to make the drive to Baton Rouge. And even if you made it to Baton Rouge there were lines and some stations were out of gas. Communication systems had also been destroyed.

In other words, you don't want to inject more people into this situation than necessary. If things were really that bad on my side of the lake, I'm sure that Gretna was no sparkly oasis.

There was no place to put a group of extra people. The shelters were already struggling with the people already there. The only solution really was to have the Guard ferry people to safety. Having people grouped on a bridge is a more efficient way to transport them to safety than letting them scatter in a town that is all trashed to hell from a hurricane.

Now while I don't think that the Gretna police are faultless, I can't blame them for not wanting an extra population to worry about. The police in all honesty wanted both white and black people to leave the disaster areas.

[spotbird]

90. It was necessary, that's the point.

The situation in the Superdome was horrific. If these had been white people the Gretna police would have figured something our.

Much of Gretna had utilities. It was the flood that destroyed New Orleans, not other areas necessarily, but New Orleans.

[LA lady]

95. More information

Hurricane Katrina devastated the City of Gretna, leaving no building undamaged. It was a city without electricity, running water or sewerage

Late in the day on Wednesday, a flow of people from New Orleans began to cross the Crescent City Connection on foot. They were told that food, water, safety and shelter could be found on the Westbank. Unbelievably, the Mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin, was instructing people to cross the bridge; however he did not tell Gretna officials of his actions. With a crowd massing, Gretna police officers commandeered Westside Transit buses and began the arduous task of transporting busloads of people down the Westbank Expressway to the Huey P. Long Bridge and to safety at I-10 and Causeway, the FEMA approved evacuation point. It is estimated that approximately 6,000 evacuees were transported by the Gretna Police Department over a period of 12 to 14 hours without a death or injury reported. A fact overlooked by the national media.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harry-shearer/gretna-responds_b_8270.html

[spotbird]

96. What's your point?

If Gretna was devastated the sheriff should have let them cross, and if it wasn't the sheriff should have let them cross.

How can you not get the basic humanity that was missing in the police action?

Answer the question you avoid. If you were in the Superdome, would you have been safer by walking two miles away? Is that what you would have tried? What would you believe about the sheriff who prevented your escape with a gun? What if it were a the property of African-Americans that the sheriff who stopped you was protecting?

[spotbird]

97. I thought so. nt

[NYC]

91. I found this thread

too late to recommend it. Sorry.

I hope the ACLU gets the report released.

[TankLV]

98. I hope these racist sheriffs get what they deserve in spades.

It is simply unacceptable behavior.

I don't care for all the racist "excuses" that a few are - unsuccessfully - trying to make here.

These refugees - NO CITIZENS - were in the central part of the devestation - ALL routes from downtown would necessarily be "entering" some other devestated area. These people were trying to find a route OUT of the city - and there are only so many ways you can go.

This happened to be one of the only PASSABLE routes OUT OF THE CITY.

That is would take them "thru" Gretna is only a happenstance of geography and the devestation.

These people were going to try to get as far away as possible - yes, even Gretna. They certainly had no intention of just moving from one devestated area and hunkering down in another.

The comments of the racist sheriffs PROVED their racism and ulterior motives. The fact that they STOLE these people's food and water nails that point home.

How anybody here can defend this behavior is beyond comprehension here.

It is sickening.

At least now we all have a better idea who we're dealing with behind the fake names here for future and past discussions.

[NoodleyAppendage]

125. Probably a poor choice of thread response wording given topic..."spades"

Just sayin'

J

[gorbal]

106. Whatever happened, I'm glad it's being investigated...

I to wish the ACLU, (or the media covering their efforts if I am wrong) would focus their energies on the Bush administration and Fema's disgustingly slow response, rather than a few scared and beleaguered policemen. But I am still hoping to find out the real story about why roads and bridges were blocked off, not allowing people to leave. That has been bothering me for a while.

[DiverDave]

124. STOLE their food and water???WTF???

yeah, thats a caring HUMAN being there, lets TAKE the only food and water they have.

evil, EVIL motherfuckers.

And they where "honored" by the city of gretna...just what a bunch of rascist rednecks would do, "honor" them for STEALING food and water...

[Kailassa]

127. And one of the groups who had their food and water stolen

was a six year old boy-hero who had collected half a dozen younger children and was taking care of them.

Even the safety of this little boy and his tiny charges was less important to many on this board that the protection of their houses should this little boy and the six toddlers he was caring for suddenly turn into criminals. People all around the world were anxiously following the fate of this hungry group, but none of my american friends even got to hear of him except when I directed them to articles in other countries.

Americans have been manipulated to feel fear and distrust, and to be so nervous of strangers, particularly hungry black ones, that they will look the other way and go along with any cruelty, so long as they are told it will protect there own safety. Not all americans fall for this, thank goodness, but too many did.

One thing that seriously damaged america's reputation overseas was the jokes being made on the media about the victims in NO. To hear the media gleefully broadcasting such things about people who had been deserted and were dying ... We learnt then that the american government will show as much cruelty to the citizens of america as it does to any other people who are in its way.

And it's nothing to do with freedom of speech. A country in which demonstrators accept being herded into "freedom of speech" cages, and where middle aged teachers are arrested and strip searched for wearing anti-war messages does not know what freedom of speech is.

[DemsRBetterLovers]

126. I remember i was on DU that night

We were all posting things we heard on the NO police scanner.

Does anyone have that old post?