Buckley: Bush Not A True Conservative

[Omaha Steve]

Full story: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/22/eveningnews/main1826838.shtml



Buckley: Bush Not A True Conservative
In Exclusive Interview, Buckley Criticizes President For Interventionist Policies

Stamford, Conn., July 22, 2006

(CBS) President Bush ran for office as a "compassionate conservative." And he continues to nurture his conservative base — even issuing his first veto this week against embryonic stem cell research.

But lately his foreign policy has come under fire from some conservatives — including the father of modern conservatism. CBS Evening News Saturday anchor Thalia Assuras sat down for an exclusive interview with William F. Buckley about his disagreements with President Bush.



In an interview in his Stamford, Conn., home, William F. Buckley explains why he thinks President Bush has strayed from the true path of conservatism. (CBS

William F. Buckley's Stamford, Conn., home is a tranquil place that allows Buckley to think and write, and spend time with his canine companion, Sebastian.

"He's practically always with me," Buckley says.

Buckley finds himself parting ways with President Bush, whom he praises as a decisive leader but admonishes for having strayed from true conservative principles in his foreign policy.

In particular, Buckley views the three-and-a-half-year Iraq War as a failure.

"If you had a European prime minister who experienced what we've experienced it would be expected that he would retire or resign," Buckley says.

[jobycom]

1. Hey, don't pawn him off on us!!! You made him, you keep him.

Now they're trying to blame Bush on the liberals. And the media will probably pick that up, too.

"Bush is no conservative, Bush is no conservative, don't blame the Republicans for his failure, all they ever did was give him everything he wanted without question, so it's his fault, not theirs, and Clinton shouldn't have gotten that blow job, neither. See how bad liberals are?"

[unkachuck]

18. man, you're right....

....no no, Bill, he's yours....hug him, cherish him, love him, keep him....you don't want to dis your boy now....he'll figure it out, give him a chance, give him some time....

[Violet_Crumble]

82. It's got nothing to do with blaming liberals...

Bush's foreign policy is driven by neo-conservatism, not conservatism (ala isolationism with a reasonably local sphere of influence). Conservative and neo-conservatism are two different political ideologies and those who embrace conservative style foreign policy detest the whole US exceptionalism, 'spreading democracy', etc circus that is neo-conservatism...

[kysrsoze]

85. When the "conservatives" walk in lockstep with neocons, there no longer is

a difference. Almost nobody in the repub party stood against this administration. They're all the same to me. Look at John McCain, fer God's sake.

[krkaufman]

87. They're trying to rescue the term "conservative" ....

... from the disastrous policies they've implemented. Conservatism has wholly failed the general public. (As if there was any doubt this would be the case.) Bush just helped push it along a bit faster than Buckley, Norquist, et al had hoped.

[C_U_L8R]

2. Conservatism is dead

The republican Party Is The Party of Rapture Kooks, Runaway Deficits And Idiotic Foreign Policy.
Buckley is a drunk who hasn't a clue what happened to himself.

[daleo]

5. Buckley: "I coulda been a contendah." n/t

[sofa king]

64. Conservatism has always been dead

That's what it is: a harkening back to a warped memory of a dead past. Behind every affirmative action opponent there is a klansman, who stands before a slave owner, and behind him is some asshole who's pining away for "the good old days" when the first caveman made someone else bust rocks for him.

[Hosnon]

78. I think the Depression and subsequent New Deal showed that the

modern Conservative ideal is extremely flawed when put into practice.

[freethought]

3. Didn't this guy drink himself to death yet!

I have seen William Buckley on TV over the years and I will state without reservation- Great Scott!! He looks horrible!

As for his statements about *. You're late to the dock pal!

[electropop]

39. He looks like rotting rump roast.

Yuck.

But I do agree, Bush is not a conservative. He's a Fascist.

[Nostradammit]

41. They say many dogs look like their owners

This must be Sebastian:

[Mojambo]

4. Conservative movement cuts bait.

Too late motherfuckers. You put this guy in office, you OWN him.

[Pale Blue Dot]

6. I'm sick of this shit.

To paraphrase: "It's not our philosopy that's the problem, it's the guy implimenting it."

Bullshit. THE PHILOSOPHY IS THE PROBLEM.

[me b zola]

12. and every congressional enabler is the problem

Oh hell no, they can't distance themselves from bush* now that mid-terms are heating up. Everyone of those repubs who enabled bush* throughout the years, everyone of them who failed to hold bush* and his flying monkey circus accountable should be held accountable themselves.

[pokercat999]

42. Don't forget the DINO's that also enabled

America's Terrorist in Chief.

[Skittles]

40. AMEN TO THAT

conservatives created this incompetent bastard, installed him into the White House and have supported him with gusto - he is THEIRS

[MisterP]

7. disentangle himself from the individual, keep pumping the movement

they'll just run through figurehead after figurehead, Republican and maybe a few DINOs for appearances' sake, keeping on going and declaiming the Prexy once the public sours.
On another note, Buckley's face looks like beef.

[Reckon]

8. The Conservative House and Senate has backed

every move * has made. There for all of * moves must promote the Conservative agenda.

[regnaD kciN]

9. ...but that didn't stop you from backing him, did it, Billy Boy?

:grr:

There's nothing worse, in my opinion, than right-wingers who embrace wingnut presidents when they're popular, and then back off and claim they aren't "true conservatives" when their popularity plummets.

Those who claim that there's a "pure" conservatism that can't be blamed for the failures of a conservative leader remind me of those true-believer Marxists who insist that the Soviet Union was a corruption of commmunism, not "real communism," and that the latter would lead us into a secular paradise if it was actually ever tried, which it hasn't been. Maybe, but eventually "what you see is what you get." And let's see what we got with Not-A-True-Conservative-Bush:

*Transferring wealth upwards.
*Phasing out progressive taxation.
*Slashing social programs.
*Adopting a trade policy that ignores social and environmental costs for greater corporate profit.
*Inflating the military to record levels.
*Having a cozy government-big business relationship that borders on incest.
*Forcing "traditional values" as the law of the land.

Just what part of this isn't conservatism in its purest form, Billy? :spank:

[joemurphy]

13. Very well put. You summed it up nicely.

[Solly Mack]

10. Too bad, Billy Buckley. You don't get to distance yourself from him

Bush has been the fantasy President of conservatives. You all wanted him...you got him...now live with it. You for damn sure don't care that us little people have to live with the disaster called Shrub. He's yours...can't disown him now.

[Biernuts]

60. So you have to keep Lieberman and Hillary Clinton, no give backs!

[Solly Mack]

63. Uh, have we met? You must be confusing me with someone else

I'm one of the last people on this board that would ever ...ever...excuse anyone's support of Bush - regardless of what they were supporting. From Ashcroft getting the nod, to Gonzales getting the nod, to Negroponte getting the nod... to Iraq and Afghansitan..to the ME policy...to the Patriot Act...the war on terror...spying on Americans...to illegally detaining people...to torture..and so many things I've left off.

[Sydnie]

11. A bit OT but ... what happened to his face?

He looks like the evil is pouring out of every pore.

Too late to dump him now Buckley. You created this monster. It's your job to take him down as well.

edit - typo

[shanti]

37. i noticed that too

he looks ill.

[Rex]

14. Buckley wouldn't know a conservative, even if Edmund Burke popped

up out of the grave and farted right in front of Buckley's face. Buckley is a loon like Boortz or some other trivial whiner.

[tom22]

16. Actually, unlike the goofballs who write in here,

I have had a lot of respect for WFB over the years. His opinions are always worth reading even when you disagree. you all should look as good when you are 80. And the fact is he is a long time opponent of the intervention in Iraq. and for those who wonder, i still have an original RFK for President button on my bookshelf. back from the day.

[Rex]

17. You old fart!

Just kidding! :hi: I never could stand Buckley, though I'm only 35. Maybe it is that horrible condescending voice of his. I dare say the man is twice as smart as Reagan was. Which ain't saying much.

[karynnj]

24. He is clearly a smart man

Which somehow makes his views more unacceptable. One of the most intellectual events I went to as a student around 1970 at IU was a debate between John Kenneth Galbraith and Buckley. Like most of the audience, I preferred Galbraith.

As to looking good at 80, that would be good if he hadn't looked ancient back in the 70s. He is very condescending at times, but at least he was always civil. I recently saw a little clip someone posted of John Kerry in late 1971 on firing line - Buckley's voice sounded just the same then as now. (With the passage of time, it's interesting to see that on Vietnam, China and foreign policy in general, 27 year old Kerry was right far more often than he was in his 50s.)

[struggle4progress]

26. No, Buckley wasn't originally opposed to the war in Iraq: he was, in fact,

a cheerleader for the administration's position, although his support was always lathered with the gooble-de-gook Buckley has inflicted on readers for decades.

He started by insisting that we must deliver an ultimatum and that war with Iraq was the burning question of our time:

01/02/2002
ULTIMATUM TIME

... we need a new ultimatum .... the ultimatum must specify that Saddam Hussein be removed from any cockpit from which he could give military or political directions that would obstruct our purpose. In short, the ultimatum should require Saddam Hussein to remove himself from office .... Now ultimatums should be believable ... What this means is that whatever Hussein's distribution within Iraq of his inventory of weapons, we can in quick time immobilize Baghdad, and the work of an invading army would be rapid and decisive ... http://www.uexpress.com/ontheright/index.html?uc_full_date=20020102

02/01/2002
DEALING WITH THE NEW AXIS

... The president has made forward steps in sending signals that there will be a change in policy on aid to the two internal resistance forces in Iraq, the Kurds in the north, the Shiites in the south. But can it be supposed they will topple Saddam Hussein? ...

IRAQ: Decision Time
Sept 2, 2002

... What to do about Iraq is the most important question before the country ... http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_16_54/ai_90570235

After the war was underway, Buckley babbled the party line that other countries had a moral obligation to help pay us for it, while continuinbg to spout WMD propaganda:

April 21, 2003, 1:10 p.m.
U.N. Repairs

... On the matter of Mr. Blix and his weapons inspection, the operation could now be cancelled, sparing the U.N. that expense. Mr. Rumsfeld put it wisely when he said we will no longer look for WMD sites, we will look for people who tell us where they are. Their location can then be relayed to the U.N., for their files ...

Later, Buckley retreated to the familiar "well, EVERYBODY was wrong" self-justication:

June 30, 2004
Bill Buckley, you and I know the war was a mistake
JOSH MARSHALL

“With the benefit of minute hindsight, Saddam Hussein wasn’t the kind of extra-territorial menace that was assumed by the administration one year ago. If I knew then what I know now about what kind of situation we would be in, I would have opposed the war.”

Those words are William F. Buckley’s, from an article in yesterday’s New York Times marking Buckley’s decision to relinquish control of the National Review, the flagship journal of the conservative movement he founded 50 years ago ... http://www.hillnews.com/marshall/063004.aspx

But of course it was immediately obvious to millions of people around the world that Bushco was lying about WMDs, and millions of them took to the streets worldwide to oppose this vicious war before it started ...

[leesa]

56. Did you mistake arrogance for wisdom?

[Erika]

15. W is a world corporate globalist with no concern for the U.S.

especially not its workers. He had the chance to raise a bitch against China for it's inhumane treatment of workers, and chose to be silent.

W and his crew are loyal to corporate globalism, not the good of America.

[Tabasco_Dave]

19. He looks like a burn victim!

What the hell happened to his face. Could he be blushing out of embarrassment for supporting that idiot in the past. :blush:

[girl gone mad]

29. Too much time on the yacht without a hat?

It looks like sun damage or an attempt to treat sun damage. I've seen odd pictures of him from the past, like perhaps hee has had pre-cancerous lesions removed. Think John McCain.

[Wwagsthedog]

30. Hi Dave!

Buckley has a bar room tan. He probably doesn't remember that much, as noted above, due to the short circuited brain cells his neck is carrying around.

[MrPrax]

20. ...retire or resign

"If you had a European prime minister who experienced what we've experienced it would be expected that he would retire or resign," Buckley says.

This observation is a real corker for us foreign types that after reading about what other fuck up this arrogant stupid little prick and his posse have done, you begin to wonder exactly what DOES go on politically in the US. He would have been toast by now in virtually any other quasi-democracy. Or at least censured.

Now as far as Buckley goes--he was a punk back in his younger days and waved a belligerent flag any chance he could during the Vietnam War. This jock ultra-patriot threatened to punch out geeky little Chomsky on TV once. He helped pioneer much of the 'excess' he decries in this current band of thugs who who are practising cheap 'support the troops' patriotism that he used back in his glory days.

What a fucking phoney...why complain? His POS whitebread pals are still in charge and making war. That what he wanted back in the old days and so he's got it again.

Buckley is totally disingenious -- he's really worried about Bush producing a 'Nixon drought' for the GOP.

Self-important idiot.

[Erika]

22. But his vocabulary is great...fantastic

And at least he's got the guts to out W.

[enid602]

21. Buckley

Nor is WF Buckley a true conservative if he's only realizing this now.

[Reckon]

23. The Headline Should Read:

William F. Buckley Calls on Bu$h to Resign!

Isn't that what Buckley is saying?

"If you had a European prime minister who experienced what we've experienced it would be expected that he would retire or resign," Buckley says."

[Erika]

25. Buckley knows a failure

and this time his name is W.

[theanarch]

27. as far as i'm concerned...

Buckley's greatest contribution to America was serving as a model for Dustin Hoffman's title role in "Hook"...story is, Dustin watched reruns of Buckley's old tv show (must be getting old, as i've forgotten the name) prepping for the part...the sneering, the mannerisms, the body language...should have gotten an Oscar for it. As for Buckley's take on Junior: yo, billy-boy, you're a day late and dollar short...just one more rat leaving Junior's sinking ship-o-state...

[yorkiemommie1]

28. No cutting and running from * allowed

He was the fairhaired boy of the GOP; he's their action figure hero. We knew he was a phoney, a rat, a vulgar, coarse, shallow, meanspirited, stupid LIAR waaaay back when the GOP was spitting vitriole at us.

This entire mess can be blamed on every.single.person who voted for this evil being.

To add to the horror, too many Dems failed to grow spines so as to stand up to this man and his handlers.

[Erika]

33. Agreed 100% The GOP loved W

Now they want to run as fast as they can from him as he has brought world wide havoc to the planet, while ignoring global warming.

[sgxnk]

31. bush is NOT a conservative

this is NEWS?

bush is no more a conservative than clinton was a liberal

lots of lefties claim the latter, and lots of righties claim the former

they are both wrong

if anybody knows what conservatism is, it's buckley

[Erika]

32. W is responsible for a total breakdown in detente

Clinton kept the peace and got a standing ovation from the U.N. The differences between the two are well noted.

[sgxnk]

34. well

that's all groovy and stuff but...

clinton is/was not a liberal

bush is not a conservative

[CJCRANE]

43. Clinton is a middle-of-the-road

conservative, to all intents and purposes.

I don't know exactly what Bush is...maybe extreme right-wing radical.

[sgxnk]

68. clinton

IS clearly a left moderate

[CJCRANE]

79. There's two aspects -

social and financial.

When it somes to financial matters, Clinton was much more "conservative" than Bush (but then again B*sh is so far out financially that all previous presidents combined are more fiscally conservative than he is).

[sgxnk]

86. on social matters

he was prettty clearly a left moderate imo as well

pro death penalty, for instance

bush is harder to classify.

i'd argue a rightmoderate with strong authoritarian tendencies (stronger than clinton, obviously)

socially, he is not very conservative - immigration, gun stuff, etc. in many aspects

financially, he spends like a 2nd wife with a platinum card

[SlavesandBulldozers]

57. neither of them are archetypal examples of either movement.

both of them are perfect studies in the real-world application of either movement, though. And I don't think anybody would argue which is the better path, except for the most extreme camaro-on-blocks-in-the-frontyard conservative.

[sgxnk]

69. um, no

bush is NOT conservative

he is not just a non-archetypal example of conservatism

he is NOT a conservative

buckley is right, although he is HARDLY the first to recognize bush is not a conservative

[smoogatz]

59. You are absolutely, 100% wrong.

Bush is the über-conservative. Bush is unleashing conservatism's perfect storm. He's following the hard-line, far-right conservative agenda word-for-word. The problem is not Bush's execution of that agenda. The problem is that the central tenets of American conservatism are idiotic, unjust, un-democratic, anti-American, and a recipe for disaster on every front. True conservatism HAS been tried, numerous times (see Hoover, Reagan, etc.). It's never worked in the past, it doesn't work now, and it won't work the next time we try it, a generation from now. It doesn't work because it's entirely driven by a failed ideology, which serves only the interests of corporations and the ultra-rich. Conservatism sucks, and it's time to shit-can the whole thing, once and for all.

[Oak2004]

35. I agree with Buckley ... BUT call Bush proto-fascist, not liberal

and Buckley should take his proper place as a Bush enabler.

Yes, Mr. Buckley, Bush's administration isn't conservative. I've known that all along, just as I knew Gingrich and his Congress weren't conservative at the time he and the Republican majority came to power. But Bush's administration, and his party, would never be sitting in Washington screwing up the world and this nation in such destructive ways if it weren't for countless conservatives who joined in, went along, or kept their mouth shut as long as it was to their benefit to do so.

I'll cut some slack to the conservatives who saw this coming and spoke up immediately, or to those who were hypnotized for a while but who woke up, and then spoke up during the ascent of this proto-fascist movement, at great disadvantage to themselves. But those who are jumping off the bandwagon, now, as it's wheels come off? To them I say two things: one, welcome to the reality-based world, I'm genuinely glad you finally made it, and two, take responsibility for the mistakes you made and the role you played in creating this national disaster -- don't try to blame others for what you yourself helped make possible.

As to those who use "Bush isn't conservative" as just another fascist talking point for bashing liberalism? Those people aren't even deserving of my contempt.

[rucky]

36. um...we have had a "European Prime-Minister experience...

what we've experienced" and Tony Blair has not resigned.

[Festivito]

38. What idiocy: support support support, fail, then gee, who's Bush?

This "true conservative" label is not about who Bush is.
It's about blaming Bush so Congressional Republicans can continue pillaging our treasury past the '06 elections.

[opihimoimoi]

44. FLIP FLOPPER!!! ....What ??? Sellers Remorse??? Change yo mind?

TOO freakin late

Staying close to the Bush has gotten you Fleas and Ticks and now ya wanna pick um off?

Too Late.

[phylny]

45. Gee, William, YATHINK? n/t

[JohnnyLib]

46. Don't shoot the messenger

has always been good advice. WFB is important enough that Limbaugh will probably "respectfully disagree" with him--again. And, if WFB's words dilute the KoolAid for only a few, it counts.

Apologies for coming in late and for sounding moderate even to myself.

[NJCher]

47. I saw the piece. I thought of him as "pickled."

Thanks for the research, struggle4progress.

I'm still laughing over the dog picture above. Priceless.

Yesterday I had lunch with a Democrat friend who lives in rabidly republican community out in Morris County. This friend happens to be from a Republican family. Almost everyone in her wealthy condo community is a Republican. I don't think she intended to, but practically the entire lunch was spent talking about how her family and people in her community have separated themselves from bush.

This doesn't make them any better as people; conservativism is still a sick philosophy resulting in freakish solutions to problems. But it is interesting that even the most rabid are seeing bush for what he is.

When they say repent
I wonder what they meant.
...
I've seen the future.
It is murder

Leonard Cohen




Cher

[PerceptionManagement]

48. So, when are the rabid bush defenders going to attack Buckley?

[Vogon_Glory]

51. Good Question. I wonder What They'll Say? n/t

[BlueManDude]

49. He's actually a Liberal Democrat!!!! It's all the Dems fault!!! n/t

[Vogon_Glory]

50. Sorry, Bill, But * Was A Conservative Fair-Haired Boy

Sorry, Bill Buckley, but your distancing yourself from Gee Dubya is unconvincing and far too late. Conservatives cheered Dubya on even before the 2000 presidential races, and heaped a torrent of abuse on those of us who dared question either the wisdom or even the conservatism of Dubya's policies, as * turned old-fashioned conservatism on its head and through old conservative doctrines of fiscal responsibility and limited government power out the window. For the better part of four years you remained silent about what *-style "conservatism" had become and your silence was complicity.

You and your fellow conservatives own Dubya, the Banana Republican Congress, all their works, and all the consequences. They're yours and your fellow conservatives', NOT ours. Whatever the craven gutlessness of all too many Beltway Democrats, many of us centrists and progressives, Democrat or not, strongly believe that Dubya, his record, and the consequences, should be firmly fastened around conservatives' necks like three day-old road kill for the next forty years.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

52. let's call today's conservatives what they truly are:

thieves, self-dealing, war-loving liars, frauds and power-hungry
In sum, evil, greedy bastards.

[formercia]

53. Bill Buckley has a nice house

been there long ago.I used to SCUBA with his son.

Another bonesman trying to distance himself from a mess he helped create.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

70. did you get to know Bill?

what was he like?

I had to spend a day around Pat Buchanan once and, dare I say it, he was pretty likeable for a fascist.

[formercia]

81. No, he was out of town at the time

I worked with his son on Project Bubble. It was designed to improve water quality at beaches by putting up a bubble screen from perforated pipes laid at the perimeter of the swimming area. In 1968, $50. an hour was good money.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

54. Bill, you ignorant slut.

You knew all this from the get-go; but you and your conservative cohorts decided to go along with the neo-cons for a ride. You and every bastard, regardless of party affiliation, who supported these thugs are equally guilty. You handed this country over to the fascists and now you're whining about it?

Shame on you! :grr:

[leesa]

55. Oh, he's yours, buddy. You supported his nonsense. Now that it has come

to fruition and you see what disasters your "wisdom" has wreaked, you want to pretend it wasn't you.

[Vinca]

58. It's not a positive asset to be a decisive leader

WHEN THE DECISION IS ALWAYS WRONG!

[smoogatz]

61. And another wingnut rat jumps ship.

Just wait. Give Bush another year, the so-called conservative intellectuals will heading for the doors in droves. They won't be able to condemn Bush loudly or often enough for betraying conservatism's core principles. Of course, these are the same idiots who hailed him as an economic genius when he cut their taxes, and proclaimed him a bold decisive hero when he invaded Iraq. Of course, Bush is faithfully executing the hard-line conservative agenda pretty much article by article, with the full cooperation and consent of the Republican congress. It's the agenda that's fucked up. Bush is just doing what he was told.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

62. HA! Conservatives touched him last....He's ALL yours, honey.

Too late to distance from the Worst Prez EVER! He's a Republican and a conservative.

[mvd]

65. I don't believe in conservatism (I don't think anyone, even..

someone who's not working, should go hungry,) but Bush is definitely worse. He's a right wing fascist/extremist/ideologue - pick your word. Buckley's not telling us anything WE don't know, but it's good he's saying it.

[DarkTirade]

66. That's what I've been saying for years.

True conservatism is about less government spending and smaller, less intrusive government and laws.
Bush has spent more than any democrat could ever dream of doing, the government has only gotten more bloated in the last 6 years, and the laws have gotten more intrusive.
The exact opposite of conservatism.
What I really don't get is why the libertarians have been supporting him. They're supposed to be conservative in those ways, and liberal in social ways. Whereas Bush is their complete polar opposite.

[smoogatz]

67. Bushism IS the truest form of conservatism.

All that smaller, less intrusive government crap is just code for less government regulation of corporations. Conservatives have always been happy to try to outlaw speech and behaviors they dislike, and there's nothing unintrusive about that. Nope, what we're looking at is True Conservatism indeed--the rightwing's whole, ugly wishlist from A to Z. It's not the execution that's the problem; it's the agenda. Conservatism is shit--a thoroughly predictable recipe for disaster. It doesn't work, it's never worked, and it never will.

[Zorra]

71. Both Buckley and Bu*h are konservatives, and both are full of shit.

Why anybody pays attention to konservatives is beyond all reason.

Nothing that they say makes any sense, and nothing that they do works.

They're all certifiably fucking crazy.

[bling bling]

72. A "true" conservative would never have voted for Bush.

The "true" Republicans/Conservatives were the ones who voted for Kerry. I know some of them personally. They were intelligent enough to see that Bush was/is a bad leader for our country. When the head of the country is harming us, it's patriotic to resist him. These are the patriots, in my opinion. Americans first.

As for the rest of them, I have no idea if you can call them "true" conservatives any more than you can call Bush a "true" conservative. Anyone with a pea for a brain could see that everything Bush has done runs counter to the traditional conservative platform. I'm not even a conservative and I saw it, I even started a thread about it a couple of years ago.

[Az_lefty]

73. Your a little late to the circus Mr. Buckley...

you should have spoken up back in 2000. Yea I know, you boot lickers couldn't wait to get a "good 'ol boy repug" into office.

[SensibleAmerican]

74. The Republican Party has been interventionist since Goldwater!

N/T

[samsingh]

75. i would even argue that bush is not a true American

[chookie]

76. (Donning flame-retardent suit)

Buckley is correct -- Bush is not a true conservative. I've been maintaining for years that he is an off-the-chart radical, and no where near a conservative. That goes for the rest of his administration. He USED the term "conservative" as a matter of convenience, just a rhetorical device to distance himself from the dreaded label "liberal" in order to get elected--this was one of his early lies.

Conservative does not equal Republican -- whoo wheee, certainly not now, more than ever!! True conservatives are as furious with Bush as much as liberals are, and, believe it or not, for many of the same reasons. Yes, it's true -- and many are quite articulate in their arguments why, and again, I suggest that liberals will find many points of agreement with them, especially in matters of revulsion towards police state type tactics, subversion of the Constitution, revulsion at enhanced presidential powers and politically motivated wars.

NeoConservatism is *not* the latest stage in the history of true conservative philosophy. As weird as it may sound, it has its roots in extreme Marxist thought. It's fervent adherents are often "Red Diaper Babies," who once embraced radical aspects of Communism, but who "converted" to extremist rightwing notions, because it gave them broader opportunities to be loud-mouthed, vicious warmongering assholes. Eternal warfare and constant confrontation and foreign intervention were among their tenets. Jacobins and Bolshies also have much more in common with the smirkster and his wacky plans than true conservatism.

Bush, Cheney, Perle, Rice, Rumsfeld, Kristol, Limbaugh, Gingrich, DeLay, Coulter, Wolfowitz, Krauthammer, Dershowitz, Alito, Woolsey, etc are *not* conservatives. Far from it. They are wacko radicals aka "NeoConservatives," who hijacked a name that has little to do with their extremism. Believe it from a student of history -- whenever someone claims to be "restoring" culture, they are about to introduce something totally fucking radical that no one in their right mind would support if the proponents were honest. Radicals LIE. They use weasel words to manipulate the uninformed to support them -- but by the time the uninformed figure out what they are doing, it is too late. Sound familiar?

Conservatives are people like Buckley, George Will, Barry Goldwater, and yes, Pat Buchanon. Nancy Reagan HATES monkey boy with passion. Reagan had a few NeoCons in his administration, who used him mercilessly in his second term, and it was Nancy who took the motherfuckers on. You may differ with many aspects of their philosophy,as I do, but, although most here are smearing them as Bush adorers, they were not, and have been/are among the most articulate voices denouncing His Chimperial Majesty. Check out, for example, American Conservative magazine -- founded by Pat Buchanon -- and check out the beating they have been giving monkey boy from *Day One*. And no, not beating him up because he is not crazy enough, but because Bush is doing radical, crazy, dangerous things in their view (like us). BTW -- while they are religious, they are not wacko religious -- religious extremism is a NeoCon trait, NOT a conservative one. Also BTW -- conservatives are capitalists, not plutocrats in love with corporatism.

George Will in this past week specifically denounced NeoCons harshly, but he has been Bush whacking all along, if you have been bothering to follow his columns. People here have such a knee-jerk objection to Pat Buchanon, but I bet if I posted his post-Chimpire critical writings here and merely disguised his authorship, most here would be saying "DAMN RIGHT!!" Many posts in this thread have been saying things like, "He's YOUR asshole, Buckley!! Eat it!!" -- but that is not true. Anyone remember seeing him at any Bush events? No, never.... Any one really paying attention would have noticed that when prominent true conservatives (as opposed to party Republicans) were asked who they were supporting in 2004 for president, they would laugh and say, "No comment."

(Pulling flame-resistant suit even closer) Have the courage to really read and really consider what they have to say about the smirkster. You guys are WAY off base in what wacky-assed bullshit you are using to paint with a broad brush as "conservatism." Calm down, and direct your anger at the TRULY fucking dangerous idiots amongst us -- namely, NeoCons.

(Covering head with flame-resistant suit) I've been saying all along that, in order to not only defeat NeoConservatism but to dishonor and permanently destroy it forever, that "liberals" need to join forces with true conservatives. It would be a groovy thing, baby. We'll sort the abortion/gay/religious stuff out later, after we stop fascism and rescue American democracy. But I guess I am asking to much from the liberal masses, to get them to rise above their cherished stereotypes....

[JohnnyLib]

77. I repeat, "don't shoot the messenger," (earlier in thread) --

and I thank you for this very cogent and probably critically important response.

Can we add Limbaugh's name as the mouthpiece for the wacko radicals?

[underpants]

83. Why that DOES sound familiar!

Great post. Hell at least the conservatives were willing to sit down and hash things out not these yahoos it is "You completely agree with me or you hate America" no middle ground no dissension of any kind and all that rank and file went right along with it because they were WINNING!!!

Wooohoo we won you lost LOSER!!!

that sort of thing-a HUGE selling point for W within the Republican ranks.

Again, great post but I won't include any of the noise machine (such as Limbaugh) they are just tools used by whomever has the reins to get their message out there is no substance there at all.

[shadowknows69]

80. Thanks for waking up and joining the real world Bill

n/t

[NoodleyAppendage]

84. Figures that Buckley would have a dog named "Sebastian"

For all his faults, at least Buckley is consistent in his snottiness.

J

[samsingh]

88. bush is truly evil