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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 10:56 PM
Original message
Fidel and Hugo's big pilgrimage
Alta Gracia, Argentina — Fidel and Hugo went on a pilgrimage Saturday to Che's house.

In an emotional journey, Cuban President Fidel Castro and Venezuelan ally Hugo Chavez toured the Argentine boyhood home of Castro's fallen comrade and legendary guerrilla, Ernesto “Che” Guevara. It was a first visit for both.

“Fidel! Fidel!” and “Hugo! Hugo!” the crowd of 2,000 chanted as the 79-year-old Castro, wearing his trademark green military fatigues, got out of his limousine. Mr. Chavez was right by Mr. Castro's side as they entered the house amid a crush of security agents.

While Mr. Castro made no public comment, he smiled broadly and shook hands with supporters in the crowd. Mr. Chavez told reporters the two were delighted by their tour: “Fidel invited me to come and get to know the house. For me, it's a real honour being here.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060722.wfidelhugo0722/BNStory/International/home
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. He's not looking as dead as reported, is he?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. It wouldn't be right if I didn't point out something very interesting
within the article which should interest Cuba thread DU'ers. In discussing Fidel Castro's visit to Che Guevara's house, quoting their tour guide:
I'm sure Fidel will be touched because he knew Che so well,” said their house tour guide, Lauren Gonzalez. She said Cubans are among favourite pilgrims to the house, but it also draws admirers worldwide because of Guevara's legendary status.
(snip)
Isn't that special? Outta the clear blue sky, in a day and age when we still get visiting posters here who claim Cubans aren't allowed to leave Cuba.

They need to put this quote in their pipes and smoke it, lord love 'em.

Here's a photo of the house they visited. It's the only one I could find quickly.

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 04:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Where ARE today's revolutionaries?
Edited on Sun Jul-23-06 04:16 AM by Judi Lynn
Latin Americans had El Che.



We've got NeoCons.

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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Cuba still has revolutionaries - doctors and educators
http://havanajournal.com/culture/entry/cuba_creates_henry_reeve_brigade_of_doctors_for_world_aid/

--

They travel all over the world - except they aren't allowed in by one country.. the USA.

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Also revolutionary is their concept of free college level education,
allowing poor, motivated young people access to fulfilling careers as adults. This door started swinging shut here during Bush's Neo-con seizure of our government. Maybe even before, when the MEpublicans gained control of Congress.

Right-wing trolls often explode over the thought Cuba's doctors aren't fabulously wealthy, as they can't imagine people working toward any goal beyond material wealth. This would tell you more about right-wingers than about anything else: shallow, and locked out of the human race by choice.

Cuba's revolutionary educational system allows poor, motivated young people to enter the health profession, and is responsible for the impressive movement of the common state of well being from the conditions of the late 1960's, which were deplorable, and 3rd world, to the level equal to, and in some cases higher, than our own.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Omigod. Next time, please put a warning in your subj line.
:)
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Ha! And you don't have to be selective to get those photos. The other
Neocons are just as alarming.

They have problems they just can't hide!

http://www.alternet.org/images/managed/Blog+Image_thumb_john_bolton.jpg
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. Do the rules not stipulate a warning
before posting such graphic images? Now I'll probably have nightmares. ;-)
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Speaking of nightmares, here's John Negroponte. More than just
figurative language with this guy, after consideration of his life's work!



Has anyone ever seen Negroponte and Nosferatu both at one time?
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unda cova brutha Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. I would take fidel and hugo over the chimp any day
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gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. I am hoping Hugo might rub off on Castro
Edited on Sun Jul-23-06 04:56 PM by gorbal
Perhaps he will be a good influence:)I also wish people would talk more about the other "leftist" governments in the area, Bolivarian and otherwise.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
11. Fidel taking time a break from machine-gunning political prisoners?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Why not provide a link to a source describing machine-gunning
political prisoners? Must be quite a few! /.

I'm not saying you're windy, and that you make up your own whoppers, so don't even think it!
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. LOL! n/t
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Barkley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'll still take Havana over Gitmo any day -nt
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Bushwick Bill Donating Member (605 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. New Newsweek hit piece re: Hugo.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13989898/site/newsweek/
Seems like pretty lame evidence, but I could always use a Judi Lynn debunking for when my fweeper friends fall all over themselves for this article. :)
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Venezuela has been a place of corruption for a while
Edited on Sun Jul-23-06 11:46 PM by killbotfactory
I wish Hugo luck in combatting it, but this problem didn't just pop up when he was elected.

Also, considering Chavez is called a dictator so much:

But the corruption issue has nonetheless become a source of mounting frustration for him, judging from a recent presidential outburst. "I swear that in cases like these," fumed Chávez in January, "if I could have people shot I would." Pro-government legislators share the concern. "If the government doesn't put a stop to corruption," warns congressional audit-commission vice president Eustoquio Contreras, "corruption will put a stop to the government."


He can't even order people to be shot! Some dictator!
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Lalalalalala
**********QUOTE*******

"Only 18 percent of voters think the government is resolving the issue," notes Caracas pollster Alfredo Keller. ....



He personally has not set the most inspiring of examples; several family members occupy choice government posts. But the corruption issue has nonetheless become a source of mounting frustration for him, judging from a recent presidential outburst. "I swear that in cases like these," fumed Chávez in January, "if I could have people shot I would." ....



In its 2005 survey of perceptions about corruption, the Berlin-based watchdog group Transparency International ranked Venezuela 130th out of 159 countries, and it figured among a dozen countries where respondents asserted that graft had "greatly" increased. ....



In previous years the judiciary was bipartisan, and opposition parties controlled the office of auditor general. No longer. And those parties' decision to boycott congressional elections last December gave Chávez complete control over the legislature. That has helped foster a permissive climate: though military officers have been accused of embezzlement or misuse of public funds totaling hundreds of millions of dollars in a half-dozen cases, none has been charged and some still hold government jobs.

********UNQUOTE*******
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. I nearly swallowed my tongue when I saw the "reporter's" name
Edited on Mon Jul-24-06 04:46 AM by Judi Lynn
in the article's byline: Phil Gunson. He has been discussed many, many times here at the home! Ha ha ha ha ha.

He has been described as a "parajournalist." That's charitable, to say the least.

Did a quick search, found a tremendous thread in which his name comes up frequently. DU'ers who weren't around back then might enjoy this thread. By the way, dear "Windansea" who authored the original post blew a gasket at some point and hand to be tombstoned. He was a wild and wooly scrapper who wouldn't admit when he was wrong, which was all the time.

Here's what one of the posts offers on Gunson:
plurality (1000+ posts) Fri Mar-19-04 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
18. more on the 'reporter' Phil Gunson
http://www.narconews.com/Issue32/article598.html

Gunson Comes Clean, Finally, About
Political Consultant Eric Ekvall:

Gunson comes clean, finally, admitting that he considers the rabidly pro-coup media manipulator Eric Ekvall to be his friend (something Gunson never did when quoting Ekvall in his “journalistic” work).

“I have no reason, nor any inclination, to hide my friendship with Eric, someone for whom I have great respect,” says Gunson.

Thank you, Phil. Our point, made a month ago, was that you should have disclosed what you today admit is a “friendship” with the spin-doctor for Dictator-for-a-Day Pedro Carmona during last April’s coup d’etat, when you quoted him in your published reports.

Gunson did not, however, answer our questions about why, when quoting Ekvall last April about the Venezuelan oil company, he did not disclose that Ekvall was an ousted consultant to that same company: A favor for a “friend”?

In any case, thanks to this (however tardy) disclosure, readers will be able to understand Gunson’s partisan reporting from Venezuela, from this day on, in the context of his now-disclosed “friendship” with political consultant Ekvall.

Gunson Comes only partly
clean about Eurídice Ledezma:

A central question in our open letter to Gunson last month regarded his use of Eurídice Ledezma – who Phil has told sources is his “ex-girlfriend” – as a source without disclosing that relationship. Ledezma was his sole source to blame the shootings of last April 11th in Caracas on supporters of President Hugo Chávez, a claim that time and facts have since proved to be untrue.

We also had questions about a glaring inconsistency between what Ledezma was quoted as saying by Gunson, and what she was quoted as saying to the Committee to Protect Journalists, last April. Gunson quoted her as saying she saw “plain-clothed” shooters. CPJ quoted her as saying she saw “military shooters.” We repeat our question: Which was it? Plain-clothed or military? How can it be both? And doesn’t this call into question the credibility of her statements?

In his letter to us, Gunson does not directly admit or deny the matter of Ledezma having been his girlfriend. (Again, we don’t care who zooms who: It only became a public matter when Gunson used her as his sole source for a questionable allegation with historic consequences.)

Instead, Gunson addresses his relationship with Ledezma only in the context of “people who are friends of mine,” comparing it to being invited to “a leading economist’s private Christmas party,” or to being “invited aboard a businessman’s private yacht,” or to situations in which a reporter and a source “occasionally have lunch together or a few drinks.”

Somehow, we think the reader can see through this evasion easily enough. We didn’t ask Gunson whether he had been on yachts or private Christmas parties or whether he had a few drinks with his source Ledezma. We – and we believe the reader – can distinguish between that kind of occasional informal relationship and the deeper involvement of long term love affairs. Gunson writes us so many words that dance around the edge of this point without once addressing it head-on. We think his evasion is evident to the reader. It is certainly evident to us.

Regarding the Ledezma matter, Gunson does accuse us of misquoting her. That is the only point in his letter where he at all factually refutes anything from our report. We will address that matter fully – and head-on – below.

Gunson Admits to Plagiarizing Pro-Coup
Spin Doctor Janet Kelly in MSNBC Article:

In our December open letter to Gunson, we pointed out that his “lede” (journo-speak for the opening paragraphs of a published report) contained a ditty comparing President Hugo Chávez to a children’s cartoon character falling off a cliff, and that partisan political analyst Janet Kelly had used the same description during those same days.

We asked Gunson if he plagiarized that reference without crediting the author (thus saddling Newsweek/MSNBC online, for whom he wrote that story, with a possible plagiarism problem).

Here, Gunson comes clean:

“The author of the simile is indeed Ms Kelly. It was a good one, and I stole it.”

Kind readers: Would you – or Newsweek/MSNBC Online – have known about this act of plagiarism by a journalist, if not for Narco News?
(snip)


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1255627

Super duper, isn't it? Just check the thread.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Another article:
Three important stories on Venezuela have appeared in the Independent during March. <2> One by Phil Gunson on March 2nd, one by Andrew Buncombe on March 13th, and one by Rupert Cornwell on March 20th. Phil Gunson's article is crude anti-Chavez propaganda. Buncombe's is a straightforward account of US funding for the Venezuelan opposition. Cornwell's is a more insidious anti-Chavez piece employing classic BBC-style bonhomie and “balance”. Both pieces depend on ignoring crucial facts.

Chavez rubbished among Gunson's garbage

The keynote in Gunson's piece comes in the second paragraph:
“Three months after the opposition umbrella group, the Democratic Co-ordinator (CD), gathered more than three million signatures for a referendum against the leftist President Hugo Chavez, Venezuela's electoral authority was poised to reject the petition.

The only way to revive the referendum, guaranteed under Mr Chavez's 1999 constitution, would be for hundreds of thousands of signatories to reaffirm their intentions - an option that seemed certain to be rejected by the CD as impractical.”
Phil Gunson whimsically attributes to himself the authority to judge the number of signatures collected. He says nothing about the circumstances of the recall vote – which no European country would have regarded as acceptable. For example, voting lists were taken from the voting stations by opposition party representatives so as to register votes by going from house to house. The Chavez government accepted that and other abnormal voting procedures, presumably so as to quit the opposition of any excuse were they to lose the vote.
(snip/...)
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1135

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Phil Gunson and Eric Ekvall Are Upset with Narco News

By Al Giordano
With Unabridged Letters from Phil Gunson and Eric Ekvall
December 23, 2002

First, we will introduce the actors in this report on what happens when foreign media organizations don’t apply enough scrutiny on their English-language correspondents in Latin America.

Eric Ekvall is a political consultant in Venezuela who used to work for the state-owned oil company PdVSA and the Ford Motor Company. He popped up last April, during the brief coup d’etat in Venezuela, defending Dictator-for-a-Day Pedro Carmona in an article by Juan Forero of the New York Times.

Phil Gunson refers to himself as a “freelance correspondent” in Venezuela. He has written during the past month for the Miami Herald, the St. Petersburg Times, MSNBC (online only) and the Independent of London. He has also been interviewed recently on NPR and on WAMU radio in Washington DC about the events in Venezuela (parts of those interviews are quoted below).

The two men have a relationship related to Gunson’s “journalism” that – after they were given the opportunity to come clean by Narco News – neither Gunson nor Ekvall were willing to disclose.
(snip/...)
http://www.narconews.com/Issue32/article572.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There's a ton of material on Gunson to inform anyone it's true folly to seriously look at anything he writes. Don't waste your time, if time is an important issue for you.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. Well, I suspected there would be something to find on Alfredo Keller,
the first name which caught my attention, as the ones preceding it in the article by "parajournalist" Phil Gunson didn't relate to Hugo Chavez. Here's a very quick grab from google on Alfredo Keller, a supposed "polster:"
The first factor that calls the polls into question is the well-known political partisanship of the polling firms’ directors, Jose Antonio Gil Yepes of Datanalisis and Alfredo Keller of Keller and Associates.

In a recent e-mail interchange, The Los Angeles Times’ correspondent T. Christian Miller acknowledged that the two pollsters are “pretty anti-Chavez,” but he defends their credibility on grounds that "both do door to door polling, to get the poorest of poor represented in their surveys, and also balance for things like gender and region." Miller’s defense of Keller and Gil Yepes is very questionable in view of contrary evidence. However, before presenting this contrary evidence, we would like to point out the problems with the two pollsters’ political partisanship.


Datanalisis' Pollster: Chavez "has to be killed"

Gil Yepes and Keller are not merely “anti-Chavez”; they are openly and virulently anti-Chavez. In a July 8 article in the Los Angeles Times, Miller describes Gil Yepes as a man of “Venezuela’s elite” who “moves in circles of money, power and influence” and “was educated in top U.S. schools.”

It’s certainly shocking that the LA Times quoted Gil Yepes saying that Chavez “has to be killed.”

But it is even more shocking that the LA Times and other commercial media continued to use Gil Yepes’ polling “results” after his homicidal fantasies leaped out of the closet through the pages of last July’s LA Times.

According to T. Christian Miller of the LA Times, Gil Yepes saw an assassination as the only way out of the “political crisis surrounding President Hugo Chavez.” Gil Yepes has since claimed that his quote was taken out of context, and that he was only making reference to an oft-expressed sentiment among Chavez’s opposition.

But let’s look at the full context as reported by the LA Times:

Jose Antonio Gil is among Venezuela's elite.

He moves in circles of money, power and influence. He was educated in top U.S. schools. He heads of one of the country's most prestigious polling firms.

And he can see only one way out of the political crisis surrounding President Hugo Chavez.

"He has to be killed," he said, using his finger to stab the table in his office far above this capital's filthy streets. "He has to be killed."

One need look no further than Datanalisis’ website to find the kind of blatant political partisanship that one normally does not associate with respectable polling operations. For example, in Datanalisis’ summary of a July 2002 report, the polling firm absurdly characterizes the current political conflict as one between the government (“el oficialismo”) and “the rest of the country.”

Despite the preposterousness of this portrayal, it is nevertheless an appropriate demonstration of the deep-seated class hatred by a large segment of Venezuela’s business-led opposition, which prefers to pretend that thousands of poor and working-class Chavez supporters do not exist.

When a massive pro-government demonstration in Caracas on October 13 showed that a good portion of “the rest of the country” supported Chavez, the editorial board of Venezuela’s elite-controlled newspaper El Nacional was incensed. El Nacional, which commissions and publishes polls by Datanalisis, disparagingly referred to Chavez’s supporters as “lumpen” who were lured from the country’s interior with “a piece of bread and some rum” to “come and cheer the great con man of the nation.”

As the Venezuelan anthropologist Johnny Alarcón Puentes points out, the terms "lumpen, rabble hordes, drunks, riff-raff and mobs are only some of the epithets foisted by the wealthy on citizens of dark skin, on street merchants, on workers, on the indigenous and on all those who live in slums or modest neighborhoods and dare raise their voice against the powerful.”

Thus, from the warped perspective of much of the opposition, Datanalisis’ contention that "the rest of the country" opposes Chavez makes sense. Since elites are the people that “matter,” and those of less privilege can be reduced to virtual sub-human status, poor and working-class Chavez supporters do not qualify as part of “the rest of the country.”

Alfredo Keller's "Fight to the Death"

As with Gil Yepes, there is good reason to believe that the pollster Alfredo Keller has come to advocate a violent solution to Venezuela's current political conflict. In Keller's recent letter published by PetroleumWorld.com, he describes the current political standoff as “a fight to the death for power between two counter-posed ideological forces: an authoritarian socialism with a spirit of revenge against a democracy that is open to the market.”

The charge of authoritarianism against Chavez is weak, and is especially hypocritical coming from the likes of Keller.

Here is a country, wracked by unrest, provocation, sabotage and calls for political assassination, a country that suffered a 48-hour military coup last April, where the television media and commercial dailies routinely exhort the public to violence, but the Chávez administration has not arrested or imprisoned a single journalist or opposition leader.

In fact, Chavez often comes under friendly criticism from the left for being too soft on his opposition. Cuban President Fidel Castro recently remarked, "If I have something to regret, it's his excessive generosity and kindness." Castro continued:

"In what country could there be a coup and then have all the perpetrators meet in a plaza to spend 50 days agitating through television networks, proposing another coup? Not in any country in the world. I believe that there is not a more democratic, more law abiding, more tolerant, more generous man than Hugo Chavez."

The authoritarian label is more applicable to Keller than to Chavez. After anti-Chavez Generals led a short-lived coup d'etat against the Venezuelan President and turned over power to businessman Pedro Carmona and his entourage of right-wing ministers, Keller called the coup "a de facto referendum". As Carmona announced the dissolution of Venezuela's democratically-ratified constitution and democratically-elected congress, Keller peddled the lie that the April 11 opposition march on the Miraflores Presidential Palace had forced Chavez to resign.
(snip)

The real concern for Keller and his avaricious cohorts in the opposition is the "structure of power" that Chavez and his supporters have erected. Steve Ellner, a historian who lives in Venezuela and specializes in the country's labor movement, has pointed out that Chavez's reforms, which include agrarian reform and severance benefits for workers, "have strongly favored labor at the expense of business." Some of these reforms are enshrined in the country's new constitution, which was democratically ratified by the electorate in 2000. The majority of political representatives in the country's new unicameral congress support the reforms.
(snip/...)
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=2985

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


If you have followed news on Venezuela, you'll recognize the first polster's name immediately. Vicious anti-Chavist. Looks as if the one in your article is cut from the same cloth.

The "opposition" deals with the polsters it knows will give them the info. they want. I presume the same applies here, with sociopathic right-wingers clutching their own polsters close to their hearts, and passing that garbage off as the god's truth.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
16. Rule'o thumb: Dudes who wannabe dudes-for-LIFE = BAAADDD
That goes for generational types like Poppy-Shrub-Jeb/Crow/Shrub, too.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Correct. And Chavez isn't one. -nt
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