Cooking oil cars turn the table on high fuel prices

[deadparrot]

WASHINGTON (AFP) - A growing number of Americans are setting up mini-refineries in their homes to produce biodiesel, a fuel made from waste cooking oil which is cleaner and cheaper than the petrol sold in gas stations.

The sky-high price of crude oil is scaring everyone.

Biodiesel has Hollywood backers like actress Julia Roberts and Morgan Freeman, is sung about by country star Willie Nelson but also meets the political correctness of the American right wing which has made the campaign against imported oil a mantra.

"It's better for the engine, way better for the environment, it's cheaper, but it depends how you price your labor," said Dan Goodman, an entrepreneur in residence at the University of Maryland Business School who runs his Mercedes on biodiesel.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/afplifestyleusautoenvironmentfuel

[jobycom]

1. And it smells just like chicken!!

[truthisfreedom]

10. or french fries, or onion rings, or fish, or donuts...

anything that's deep-fried.

[jobycom]

16. Yes. Sorry, I was making an inside joke, but the couple of people

who would have gotten it didn't respond.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x5402022#5402036

[TheFarseer]

23. I've read you can get rid of that smell

by running it through activated charcoal. How exactly you would do that, I'm not sure but you could probably look it up.

[jobycom]

2. The article is misleading on one point, JFYI.

It says "There are two ways to get on the biodiesel bandwagon, Goodman said. Either you change the engine and just put in waste oil, which would not be strictly legal in the United States, or you can modify the fuel into biodiesel, which is legal and works in any diesel car."

Biodiesel and vegetable oil aren't the same thing. Biodiesel is actually diesel fuel made mostly from veggie oil, though it does usually have petroleum methanol in it. The other option, using straight vegetable oil (SVO) or waste vegetable oil (WVO) doesn't usually require modifications to the engine, it just requires and additional gas tank. A car is started on regular diesel, then switched to WVO or SVO once it is warmed up. Cars used for short hops only gain little advantage with a VO conversion. But the conversion doesn't usually affect the engine, except on a few cars that need to change fuel injectors.

[smtpgirl]

5. Biodiesel & vegetable oil IS THE SAME THING

Pure Biodiesel is called B100

B80 - 80% oil, 20% petroleum product
B50 - 50% oil, 50% petroleum product

10 degrees seems to be the breaking point for our winter B80 blend; 80% virgin soy stock fuel, 20% K1, and one gallon Power Service Arctic Express Biodiesel Anti-Gel to every 100 gallons fuel.


What is biodiesel?
Biodiesel is a vegetable oil-based fuel that runs in unmodified diesel engines - cars, buses, trucks, construction equipment, boats, generators, and oil home heating units. It's usually made from soy or canola oil, and can also be made from recycled fryer oil (yes, from McDonalds or your local Chinese restaurant). You can blend it with regular diesel or run 100% biodiesel.



Applications
Biodiesel can be used in pure form (B100) or may be blended with petroleum diesel at any concentration in most modern diesel engines. Biodiesel will degrade natural rubber gaskets and hoses in vehicles (mostly found in vehicles manufactured before 1992), although these tend to wear out naturally and most likely will have already been replaced with Viton which is nonreactive to biodiesel. Biodiesel's higher lubricity index compared to petrodiesel is an advantage and can contribute to longer fuel injector life. Biodiesel is a better solvent than petrodiesel and has been known to break down deposits of residue in the fuel lines of vehicles that have previously been run on petroleum. Fuel filters may become clogged with particulates if a quick transition to pure biodiesel is made, as biodiesel “cleans” the engine in the process. It is, therefore, recommended to change the fuel filter within 600-800 miles after first switching to a biodiesel blend.



Gelling
Pure (B100) biodiesel tends to gel at 4 °C (40 °F) or so, depending on the mix of esters. As of 2006, there is no available product that will significantly lower the gel point of straight biodiesel. A number of studies have concluded that winter operations require a blend of biodiesel, #2 low sulfur diesel fuel, and #1 kerosene. The exact blend depends on the operating environment: successful operations have run using a 65% LS #2, 30% K #1, and 5% bio blend. Other areas have run a 70% Low Sulfur #2, 20% Kerosene #1, and 10% bio blend or a 80% K#1, and 20% biodiesel blend. According to the National Biodiesel Board (NBB), B20 (20% biodiesel, 80% petrodiesel) does not need any treatment in addition to what is already taken with petrodiesel.

[jobycom]

14. No, very far from it.

Biodiesel is made from vegetable oil, but it undergoes a chemical process that makes it different from vegetable oil. It is chemically different. Vegetable oil is treated to achieve a certain Ph level and then combined with either methanol or ethanol (usually methanol, because it is easier to work with). So about 20% of biodiesel comes from methanol, and usually the methanol is a petroleum product. The veggie oil and methanol are heated and stirred vigorously for several hours, until a chemical reaction occurs (not a chemist, and I'm going from memory here, so I can't describe it exactly) which separates the mixture into biodiesel and a byproduct whose name I've forgotten but which can be used to make soap.

Basically, you start with, say, 20 gallons of veggie oil and 4 gallons of methanol, and in the end you have 20 gallons of biodiesel and 4 gallons of sludge byproduct (which you can make soap with). The biodiesel is not veggie oil at this point.

Biodiesel can be mixed with regular diesel, and that's where your B100, B80, etc, measurements come in. B80 would be 80% biodiesel, and 20% petrodiesel. There are several reasons some people do this. One, there is a belief by some that pure biodiesel degrades rubber seals and parts in older cars. Many feel this fear is overblown--for instance, I run B100 in my 82 Mercedes and have no trouble, so far, with it. Another reason for the micture is that until recently biodiesel was 3 to 5 times more expensive to buy, and somewhat comples to make, than dinodiesel, so they were mixed to reduce costs. And then there is a weather factor--biodeisel gels at a higher temp than petrodiesel. Not a factor where I live.

Vegetable oil can be run in most diesel engines without any chemical process. Some, like my old 5 cylinder Mercedes, can run on it without any adjustments, and some people swear they've just dumped veggie oil in the tank for years with no ill effects. It has to do with the way the engine and injectors were made. Most engines, though, straight vegetable oil would ruin in a few months, and a couple wouldn't even run on it, again because of engine design and injector opening, and probably some other stuff. There are two ways of running the engine on vegetable oil, though. One is to simply mis it with some form of fuel, like diesel or kerosene, or even complicated mixtures of them. This allows the oil to burn more cleanly, although on most cars it will still eventually cause engine damage (mostly from plaque from the burnt oil). The other way is the two tank system I described in the other post.

Neither biodiesel nor vegetable oil are new or experimental. They've been being used since the 70s, and in parts of Europe are used more largescale than here. When Rudolf Diesel invented his engine in the late 19th century, he made it to run on a veggie oil based fuel. He claimed the world would one day run out of petroleum, and his invention would be useful then. He thought it would out much sooner, but better petroleum extraction techniques prolonged it a hundred years, and counting. Diesel's engine, ironically, was modified to run off a petroleum based diesel, and that's what's been used since, but it was designed for biodiesel.

[lumberjack_jeff]

18. The process is called "transesterification"...

and the byproduct is glycerine mixed with methanol. The methanol can be recovered.

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#process

Both biodiesel and wvo (waste vegetable oil) are vulnerable to low-temp gelling, but the former less so than the latter.

[jobycom]

20. Thanks. That's it. nt

[smtpgirl]

31. THANK YOU lumberjack_jeff!!!!

[jobycom]

34. You're wrong on the methanol mixing with the glycerine.

For some reason I missed you saying that when I posted earlier. The methanol combines with the esthers and becomes methyl esters. That's the whole point. The glycerine does not mix with the methanol, and the methanol cannot be recovered--it is burned with the biodiesel.

" First, vegetable or animal fats and oils are triglycerides (TGs), composed of three chains of fatty acids bound by a glycerine molecule (see diagram in next section below).

Triglycerides are esters. Esters are acids, such as fatty acids, combined with an alcohol, and glycerine (glycerol) is a heavy alcohol.

The transesterification process converts triglyceride esters into alkyl esters (biodiesel) by means of a catalyst (lye) and an alcohol reagent, usually methanol, which yields methyl esters biodiesel -- the methanol replaces the glycerine."

[lumberjack_jeff]

42. Excess methanol is required for the chemical reaction.

The ratio required for complete transesterification of oil into biodiesel is roughly 4 or 5 units oil to 1 unit methanol. The chemical reaction consumes about half of that methanol (8 units oil to 1 unit methanol). The remaining methanol settles out in the glycerine byproduct.

It is possible to distill that excess methanol from the glycerine byproduct for reuse.

http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html

Glycerine

The glycerine from WVO is brown and usually turns to a solid below about 100 deg F (38 deg C). Glycerine from fresh oil often stays a liquid at lower temperatures.

Reclaimed glycerine can be composted after being vented for three weeks to allow residual methanol to evaporate off or after heating it to 150 deg F (66 deg C) to boil off any methanol content (the boiling point of methanol is 148.5 deg F, 64.7 deg C). The excess methanol can be recovered for re-use when boiled off if you run the vapors through a condenser.

Another way of disposing of the glycerine, though a great bit more complicated, would be to separate its components, mostly methanol, pure glycerine (a valuable product for medicines, tinctures, hand lotions, dried plant arrangements and many other uses -- see Glycerine) and wax. This is often accomplished by distilling it, but glycerine has a high boiling point even under high vacuum so this method is difficult.

[jobycom]

43. Yeah, I figured out what you meant after I posted that. But the methanol

is part of the biodiesel, and only part of it stays in the glycerin.

[smtpgirl]

27. Biodiesel can be used in it's purest form B100

but, it gels @ 40 degress Farenheit!!!!!, look at my previous posts

[jobycom]

35. Obviously, that's why my post says I use B100, nt.

[smtpgirl]

28. Haven't you read anything about this??

there are esters in biodiesel that are methanol by-products, but Biodiesel is oil, canola, soy, waste oil, animal fat. Also there are esters that aren't used, primarily glycerin.

[jobycom]

36. That's wrong, and your post below this says the opposite of this one.

" The transesterification process converts triglyceride esters into alkyl esters (biodiesel) by means of a catalyst (lye) and an alcohol reagent, usually methanol, which yields methyl esters biodiesel -- the methanol replaces the glycerine."

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#howprocess

The biodiesel is NOT oil, it is a solvent/fuel made from oil and biodiesel. Which is exactly what I said above, without taking the time to look up the chemical names. The methanol (with lye) causes the chemical reaction above which changes the oil completely from oil to biodiesel.The methanol stays in the biodiesel, the glycerides separate and sink.

And yes, I've read a lot on biodiesel, and have studied it for a few years, and have friends who make it, and even made my own biodiesel still, but found a better source for it before I could start making it.

[smtpgirl]

30. B80 is 80% plant/animal oils, 20% petrodiesel

Biodiesel is produced by chemically altering vegetable oil to replace its glycerin with methanol, resulting in lower viscosity and higher lubricity. While any type of vegetable oil can be used - even McDonald's leftover fryer oil - soybeans are the source for most of the biodiesel manufactured in the U.S. today.

Biodiesel can power any diesel engine in any type of vehicle - from farm equipment to commercial fleets, school buses to small passenger cars - no modifications necessary. There are a few caveats, of course. The fuel has to be properly manufactured, and if a car has previously run on petroleum diesel, the car's fuel filters need to be replaced a couple of times during the transition to biodiesel because biodiesel acts as a solvent, cleaning out petroleum diesel residue in the tank. (Pre-1992 vehicles also need to have their hoses, seals and o-rings replaced to accommodate the fuel's higher solvent properties.) Biodiesel can also be combined with regular diesel fuel in any proportion. A common mix of 20 percent biodiesel and 80 percent petroleum diesel, called B20, is already widely available in farm states in the Midwest. One-hundred percent biodiesel is called B100.

[jobycom]

38. The first sentence in the post is right, the post header is wrong.

B80 is 80% biodiesel, 20% petrodiesel, which is exactly what I said above. Your first sentence here says "Biodiesel is produced by chemically altering vegetable oil to replace its glycerin with methanol." Which is exactly what I said above, except I went blank on the word "glycerin," and even that I described.

The first sentence in this post disagrees with your post above this one, too. Biodiesel is not the same as veggie oil, the is converted into a different substance, called biodiesel, or methyl esters.

[smtpgirl]

33. Here is where the methanol comes from

http://www.superiorprocesstech.com/process.htm

[jobycom]

39. Oh, now I see some of your and Jeff's confusion

The process in that link does talk about reclaiming "unreacted methanol." But that's just the methanol that didn't react with the oil. That's about 20% (or more, depending on the oil) of the methanol used in the process, because you use more than actually reacts. You can reclaim that part, but the majority of the methanol remains in the biodiesel. So biodiesel is about 16% methanol, not the 20% I said above.

[Up2Late]

12. I agree this is a poorly written article, but that's about the only...

...point you are correct about.

I won't rehash what was said in the previous reply, which I completely agree with, but here are a few more points that should be corrected:

"...though it does usually have petroleum methanol in it..."

No, it doesn't. Methanol or methyl alcohol is also known as wood alcohol. Here's a good, short summery of how it's produced:

<http://www.southernsteamtrains.com/notes/alcohol%20fuel.htm>

"...Alcohol can also be produced by a process called reduction. In this process wood is heated in a sealed container without the presence of oxygen until the wood degrades into charcoal. Many gasses are given off in this reduction process and they are cooled through a condensing coil. One of the liquids collected is methyl alcohol; known as wood alcohol. Methyl alcohol is 100% poisonous to human beings and its ingestion into the human body will cause rapid and complete destruction of the human liver and kidneys...."

Here's a link to a more detailed set of pages: <http://www.fao.org/docrep/w7241e/w7241e0b.htm>

Biodiesel is the Ester (Methyl or Ethyl) created when Vegetable oil is mixed with an alcohol (usually Methanol) in the presence of a catalyst (usually Sodium Hydroxide) and allowed to separate and settle out.
<http://www.biodieselgear.com/faq.htm>


"...it just requires and additional gas tank..."

No, not true. The biodiesel goes into the same fuel tank at the Petroleum Diesel. The tank doesn't even need to be completely drained, it just becomes a Blend during the first few tanks.

The most common blends are B2, B20 and B100 (though B100 is not a blend as it is 100% Biodiesel).

The car or truck is NOT "...started on regular diesel, then switched to WVO or SVO once it is warmed up...,"

That's just not how it works. The car or truck is started with biodiesel, and runs on biodiesel until you switch back to a Petroleum fuel. If you do, your engine most likely will run better than before the switch over.

"The conversion" rarely has anything to do with fuel injectors. A fuel injected diesel needs no modifications most of the time. Older diesel engines, (5 years old or older) often need a conversion kit installed, which basically is an additional fuel oil pump.

As far as this article goes, this is just a ridiculously wrong statement:

"Either you change the engine and just put in waste oil, which would not be strictly legal in the United States...,"

I don't even know what to say about that statement, except that everything about it is wrong.

And this bit of fear mongering: "...It's easy when you know how to do it," Goodman said, though he warned that the process "can be hazardous," since it involves flammable products and caustic vapors that require a well-ventilated production site.

"You filter the waste fried oil to remove the glycerol, the most sticky part, and then replace it with an alcohol molecule (methanol) and lye (caustic soda)," he said...."

Sure, this isn't something for your kids to try at home, but it's just basic chemistry. Lye (caustic soda) is also known as Sodium hydroxide (NaOH), Sodium hydroxide is also the most common base used in chemical laboratories <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hydroxide>

True, mixing it with water can be dangerous, but if you follow some simple precautions, and DO NOT breath in the gas that it produces, it's fairly safe to have around in a lab after it's mixed.

A better way to go is to just find a dealer or retailer who sells bio-diesel in you area.

Here's a link to a bunch of good info: <http://www.biodiesel.org/>

I'm not sure why, but the link above isn't working right now, here's a link to the same page from the Google cache. Maybe all the recent attention has overloaded their servers:

<http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:SMUaPBKmYBAJ:www.biodiesel.org/+&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a>

[jobycom]

15. Sorry, you're wrong, or you misunderstood me.

Methanol as used in making biodiesel is usually a petroleum product. It can be made from wood, but that's difficult and more expensive, and that's not usually what is made. From Wikipedia: "Today, synthesis gas is most commonly produced from the methane component in natural gas rather than from coal."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol

It can be made from the process you describe, but that's not the usual way it is made. It's more expensive and more difficult to work with. Ethanol can also be used, but it's also more difficult.

For the rest of your summary, you don't seem to understand the difference between biodiesel and vegetable oil. Biodiesel is just like petrodiesel, and you don't need any conversion for that. I didn't say it did. But there is a way to run straight vegetable oil in a diesel engine, and that's what I and the article were talking about, though the article makes the same mistake you and the other poster do, in calling that biodeisel, too. It isn't, it is just vegetable oil, and a car does need modifications to run off straight vegetable oil. The modifications aren't to the engine, though, but to the fuel delivery system. Usually two tanks are used, and as I said above, one tank holds diesel and is used to start the engine, while the other holds veggie oil, and is used once the engine has started. You can by conversion kits on the Internet. There is a one tank system developed in Germany that does require some mods to the fuel injectors and glow plugs, and it finally seems to be catching on here, but most conversions so far use the dual tank. In addition to the extra fuel tank, if you are burning waste vegetable oil (usually called WVO), you need some form of tank or line heater to melt the trans fats. Some people use heated fuel pumps or fuel filters. But actual engine modifications are rarely needed.

Here's a link to better explain it: On biodiesel: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html
On SVO or WVO: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html

And one more link, from the same site, comparing biodiesel to SVO. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svovsbd.html

[smtpgirl]

32. How about Veggie Car, Veggie Van, National Biodiesel Board??

[jobycom]

40. What are you asking? What about them? nt

[jobycom]

17. One more thing, you do downplay the danger too much

Biodiesel can be and is made safely, but it can be dangerous to someone not familiar with the process. The lye mixture can burn and does create fumes that can kill or blind you quickly, and the methanol is highly explosive. The article was right to point out that it can be dangerous. Yes, a bit of caution and awareness makes it a safer process, but there are many Darwin Awards still waiting to be handed out to people who don't know what they are doing.

I agree with you that for most people it's easier to buy than to make, especially now that gas prices have risen so high that the two are around the same cost.

[sandnsea]

3. Right wing campaign against imported oil??

A Mantra??? They're going to rewrite history and pretend this was a Republican issue. Unbelievable.

[Guaranteed]

11. Ain't that funny?

I think they're referring to ANWR. Even funnier!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

29. Yeah...It's a mantra as they drive their fuckin' Humvees around the block

[Blue_Tires]

46. that line stuck out to me, too

sloppy reporting

[whistle]

4. This is not a new idea, during the 1930s and 1940s on farms all over

...America, a friend who collects and restores old John Deer tractors has one that could burn both gasoline and fuel oil/bio-fuel. These tractors were two cylinders, but each cylinder was the size of a one quart paint can. The tractor had two fuel tanks, one for gasoline and the other for the fuel oil.

The engine had to be hand started with gasoline to warm up the engine (takes about 2 to 3 minutes) then the fuel line is switched over to the fuel oil tank which the farmer would run for the rest of the day. At the end he would switch back to the gasoline to burn the fuel oil residues out of the engine (again for several minutes) and then shut the tractor down. Kerosene was the cheapest fuel available back then in rural America, so that was what was typically used. But, farmers used almost any kind of oil like used motor oil, cooking oil, or whatever they had.

It was interesting to see this monster tractor run and although a noisy beast, it was very smooth running and ran pretty clean. My friend was using diesel fuel and unleaded gasoline, but he had run it on reclaimed cooking oil with very good results.

I am not able to find a link for the specific model of tractor that I saw demonstrated, but this is a link to the John Deer two cylinder club, if anyone is interested.

http://www.two-cylinder.com/jan06_pg33.htm

[smtpgirl]

6. Rudolph Diesel, the inventor if the diesel engine

used peanut oil in his diesel engine at the 1898 World's Fair.

The Diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil.


http://www.ybiofuels.org/bio_fuels/history_diesel.html


The development of the diesel engine and biofuels run concurrent in their history, weaving a story of technological advancement and political and economic struggle. The story of the diesel engine is the more technological aspect of this history, but it becomes easy to see how the political and economic aspects of biofuels impacted its evolution.
Rudolph Diesel (1858-1913) developed a theory that revolutionized the engines of his day. He envisioned an engine in which air is compressed to such a degree that there is an extreme rise in temperature. When fuel is injected into the piston chamber with this air, the fuel is ignited by the high temperature of the air, exploding it, forcing the piston down. Diesel designed his engine in response to the heavy resource consumption and inefficiency of the steam engine, which only produced 12% efficiency.


Diesel demonstrated his engine at the Exhibition Fair in Paris, France in 1898. This engine stood as an example of Diesel's vision because it was fueled by peanut oil - the "original" biodiesel. He thought that the utilization of a biomass fuel was the real future of his engine. He hoped that it would provide a way for the smaller industries, farmers, and "commonfolk" a means of competing with the monopolizing industries, which controlled all energy production at that time, as well as serve as an alternative for the inefficient fuel consumption of the steam engine. As a result of Diesel's vision, compression ignited engines were powered by a biomass fuel, vegetable oil, until the 1920's and are being powered again, today, by biodiesel.

[whistle]

7. Interesting, of course these cooking oils are not as cheap as diesel

...fuel, but take used cooking oils from all of the fast food restaurants, filter out the solid particles and french fries and I would imagine that these could provide an economical recycled fuel that would drive vehicles such as city buses and even trucks. I'm not sure how clean this fuel would be or if it would be safe to breath the exhaust or how harmful these spent fuels would be to the ozone layer, but I'm sure technology could address those issues. Oils occur throughout nature and as long as plants grow, there is a constant supply available.

[smtpgirl]

8. goearth.org

Biodiesel emissions are substantially lower than petroleum diesel emissions. Biodiesel tailpipe emissions are similar to gasoline emissions.

However, compared to gasoline, biodiesel produces no sulfur dioxide, no net carbon dioxide, up to 20 times less carbon monoxide, and more free oxygen.

Biodiesel has the following emissions characteristics when compared to petroleum diesel fuel:

Reduction of net Carbon Dioxide (CO2) emissions by 100%
Reduction of Sulphur Dioxide (SO2) emissions by 100%
Reduction of Soot emmissions by 40-60%
Reduction of Carbon Monoxide (CO) emissions by 10-50%
Reduction of Hydrocarbon (HC) emissions by 10-50%
Reduction of all Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons (PAHs) and specifically the reduction of the following carcinogenic PAHs:
Reduction of Phenantren by 97%
Reduction of Benzofloroanthen by 56%
Reduction of Benzapyren by 71%
Reduction of Aldehydes and Aromatic Compounds by 13%
Reduction or increase of Nitrous Oxide (NOx) emissions by 5-10%, depending on the age of the vehicle and the tuning of the engine.

[Up2Late]

9. At $3.00+ per gallon, biodiesel is most certainly cheaper than...

Petroleum Diesel in most places.

And with Used cooking oil, it's usually Free, restaurants PAY to have their Used cooking oil hauled away.

I'm not sure if this is true in every state, but here in Georgia it's used by mixing it into cattle feed.

[whistle]

13. That was more information than I needed about the used oil

...being mixed into cattle feed. My distaste for beef and beef products just growing larger and larger!

[astral]

19. Well, now, there'w MUCH WORSE things

That was more information than I needed about the used oil
Posted by whistle
...being mixed into cattle feed. My distaste for beef and beef products just growing larger and larger!



being used as cattle feed than used oil. . . try dead cattle, roadkill and chicken-poop!

and we wonder where mad-cow disease comes from!

[whistle]

37. Thank you, the economies and efficiencies of corporate agriculture

:puke:

[LostinVA]

22. Diesel invented his engine specifically to NOT use petro products

It was supposed to run ONLY on vegetable oils, etc. Diesel engines are MADE to run on biodiesel. Every diesel engine can run on this great stuff... only two caveats: 1.) you may have to "flush" your engine out if it's been running on dino diesel a long time, and 2.) If you live places where it gets very good, you'll have to use a mix in the Winter.

To me, it smells like Chinese food.

I love my diesel car.

[ihelpu2see]

21. Im using about 50% bio D blend in my 03 Golf and Im considering

buying the mercedes R class diesel when available this fall form my wife to taxi the kids about.
http://www.mbusa.com/campaigns/alternative-fuels/index.do

[reprobate]

24. Has everyone forgotten about algal biodiesel?

Cheaper, requires no agricultural land for feedstocks, can be an ecological closed loop.


Algea Biodiesel

[lumberjack_jeff]

25. The work on Algacultural oil is largely theoretical

To my knowledge, no one has yet generated meaningful (more than laboratory-scale) quantities of oil from algae. In real world situations, the cultures are highly susceptible to contamination from undesirable strains.

If the yield per acre calculations are accurate, it is definitely the sustainable technology - unlike just about any other method of producing fuel it produces more energy than it takes to create it, AND it does not contribute to global warming (your closed loop)

[smacky44]

26. I like the idea but shudder to think about a world smelling like chicken

fat fried. That would keep us craving food all the time.

[jobycom]

41. Maybe it would just make everyone sick of fried food.

:shrug:

[mom cat]

44. I am using bio-diesel to heat my home and it is much cleaner.

(I also conserve like crazy, keeping the thermostst at 50.)

[krkaufman]

45. What?!?! How 'bout: The Right Wing comes around to Jimmy Carter's cause

Biodiesel ... also meets the political correctness of the American right wing which has made the campaign against imported oil a mantra.

Bullc#@$!! Ok, so a few right-wingers are talking about getting off oil as a national security issue, but where's the real effort? This far right-wing Admin has done NOTHING to get us off foreign oil, and only a few right-wing theorists are voicing the oil issue.

Jimmy Carter tried to get us off foreign oil starting in 1979, but the hero of the Right Wing, Ronnie Raygun, immediately snuffed all such efforts.... leading us to our present situation. The Democrats had BETTER NOT let this issue be taken away from them, and spun as a right-wing cause. Getting off of foreign oil should be one of the top planks in this fall's mid-terms, and Democrats should be leading this fight..!!