Israel warns it will hit 10 buildings for every rocket fired (AFP)

[allemand]

(AFP) 24 July 2006

JERUSALEM - The Israeli air force is under orders to blast 10 buildings in south Beirut, a Hezbollah stronghold, for every rocket the Shiite militant group fires at the Israeli port of Haifa, army radio said Monday.

“Army chief of staff Dan Halutz has given the order to the air force to destroy 10 multi-storey buildings in the Dahaya district (of Beirut) in response to every rocket fired on Haifa,” a senior air force officer told the station.
(...)

UN humanitarian coordinator Jan Egeland on Sunday accused Israel of violating humanitarian law as he toured bombed-out areas of south Beirut.

“This is destruction of block after block of mainly residential areas. I would say it seems to be an excessive use of force in an area with so many citizens,” he said.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2006/July/middleeast_July525.xml§ion=middleeast

08:16 IDF chief: For every Haifa attack, troops will strike 10 south Beirut houses (Haaretz)
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/ShTickers.html

[rfranklin]

1. Doesn't it say in the Bible "ten eyes for an eye?"

or maybe that's in the Torah.

[IndianaGreen]

7. An eye for an eye is not the same as ten eyes for one eye

The Torah forbids collective punishment, or any punishment that exceeds the offense.

[dmd1214]

12. What if this is not punishment or revenge???

First off... first post but long time DU fan...

This unanimous rejection of Israel’s actions is the first DU position I don't understand. Leveling buildings is a horrific thing. Everyone, including most Israelis, wish it were not being done. But Israel should not be asked to endure the threat of Hezbollah's rockets.

I think the mistake is to imply that the correct response to capturing the 2 Israeli soldiers was to capture 2 Lebanese soldiers and treat them accordingly. I believe the correct response is to either ensure stop this inappropriate behavior or to fail trying. This includes removing strategic resources of the enemy. In other words, the correct measurement of the response is not proportionality, but effectiveness in stopping -- and preventing future -- rocket attacks.

As you all know, thanks to our fearless leader, we have a huge mess over there. The stakes are not nearly as high for ANYONE as they are for Israel. If you believe that Israel has the right to exist, then they have the right to defend absolutely. Delays work to Hezbollah's advantage, and with a teetering situation, Hezbollah should not be given advantages.

I think we all know this quote by now... "The time for procrastination and delays and excuses is over, we are into a period of consequences".

Love you guys... but please try not to confuse this situation with Bush's atrocities.

[robbedvoter]

15. Welcome to DU!

A very reasoned response - I agree with you completely. The one thing you need to know about DU - it's not a one way block of positions. Especially on this particular issue.
:hi:

[respublicus]

104. An eye for an eye means "Thou Shalt not Escalate"

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth - The meaning of this teaching was not to exact revenge, but only get even and no more.
That was an advanced teaching in a time when Rome decimated resisting armies.
Unfortunately, it still is.
We seem to be going backwards

[wtmusic]

16. If it has nothing to do with proportionality

then a .5MT nuclear warhead dropped on South Lebanon would be very effective at preventing future attacks.

See the problem?

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wtmusic]

22. Why hope it isn't nukes? Don't be a party-pooper...

taking out the entire Arab world would be even more effective!

See the problem...yet?

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wtmusic]

60. The point is that proportionality is everything

Of course, Israel has the right to defend herself. She doesn't have the right to commit genocide to accomplish that.

In a dispute your asshole neighbor punches you in the face. You don't have the right to blow him away with a shotgun. Can we agree on that?

[MarkR1717]

75. Proportionality means the end of Israel......

...because Israel is so small, if it accepts human or material losses on a one for one basis, Israel will cease to exist before the neighbouring hostile states run out of people or materiel.

That's why Israels enemies want proportionality strictly enforced on them

[wtmusic]

78. The reverse is true

If Israel stops killing those in her neighboring states indiscriminately, they will have no reason and no will to defeat her.

Sorry, but the responbility for peace rests with the powerful, and no one gets a free pass on persecution.

Welcome to DU

:bounce: :toast: :bounce:

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wtmusic]

82. Not even close

You are way out of line here, and your comparison shows exactly how emotions can irrationally escalate violence on both sides. You are trying to justify killing not only your neighbor but his entire family and friends.

You really think Lebanese civilians will say, "Wow, my daughter was killed for a good reason...we'll certainly never allow the showering of rockets on Israel again!" In what twisted scenario would this not ENCOURAGE the Lebanese to do it again?

COME OFF IT. GET REAL. WHAT WOULD YOU DO IN THEIR SITUATION. :eyes:

[okieinpain]

110. I completely agree. their are probably a lot of lebanese that

have no problem with isreal. but I'm pretty sure those feelings will change if isreal keeps on this rampage. I truly believe that if you live by the sword you die by the sword, all it's really going to take is for isreal to hit the wrong place at the wrong time.

then it won't matter about isreal's right to defend itself, and it doesn't matter how big an advantage you have all it takes is one mistake and you're toast. david and goliath is my perfect example.

[msmcghee]

100. If you called the cops and they told you to STFU . .

. . and the guy kept punching you in the face, and then started punching your wife and kids in the face - damned straight. You'd grab that shotgun too.

[saigon68]

93. Au Revoir Enjoy your stay on this thread

[IndianaGreen]

28. Israel is the only one with nukes over there, which makes her claims

that her existence is at stake even more ridiculous! Israel will never be overrun for she has nukes, so her keeping the Occupied Territories and her slaughter in Lebanon can not be justified on the basis of security.

[Spazito]

52. Wow........just.........Wow!

"Nukes are, indeed, in the spectrum of effective options... a cease fire is not."

[LostinVA]

65. I'll second the Wow, just wow

Glad you signed up for DU today just to post these bon mots...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. You understand even less than you think.

The rejection of Israel's actions, although probably a majority, is FAR from an unanimous position here. All you have to do is read.

[Kagemusha]

23. Strategic resources = civilian apartment housing

The enemy is formed of human beings. Therefore, denying human beings safety or comfort harms his strategic resources.

Does even Bush do that?

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crunchy Frog]

59. The Arab world could stop this with one word?

You have a very high degree of faith in the monolithic character of the Arab world.

Welcome to DU. I'm kind of surprised that you would see the views here as being unanimous; they clearly are not. I'm also kind of surprised that you would be surprised at the fact that many people here are bothered by the spectacle of civilians in a weak country being killed and wounded in large numbers and their infrastructure destroyed by the military actions of a much stronger country.

If you stick around, I'm sure that you will see just how divided this board is over this issue.

[MarkR1717]

72. They could stop it with these words....

We are releasing the Israeli Hostages, and we are destroying all our 10,000 rockets.

[funnymanpants]

79. That's not the Arab world

Only Hizbollah could utter those words. Obviously if some Arab in Jordan utters them they are meaningless.

On another note, Israel could end the conflict with these words:

We will stop our illegal bombing. We will stop our illegal occupation. We will release all of our 10,000 prisoners, or those we don't release, we will charge and give a fair trial to.

[Snivi Yllom]

107. bwahahahahahahahahaha

actually its not funny

because that will never happen

[funnymanpants]

64. How could they stop it with one word?

Hizbollah is not going to listen to anyone. So I don't see how this could be stopped with one word.

And I really doubt Islamic fundementalism is the worst plague we have faced since Nazism. Nazism killed over 100 million, I believe. This fight started with the kidnapping of two soldiers and the killing of about 8 others.

By the way Israel kidnaps people all the times from the occupied territories. In fact, it started the latest round if kidnapping sprees on June 24 by going into Gaza and kidnapping a doctor and his brother. Israel has 10,000 Palestinian prisioners, most held without charges, a practice condemned by human rights groups.

Also, see this artice:

http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/2348/1

It's the wee hours of the morning, still dark outside. A guerilla force comes out of nowhere to kidnap a soldier. After hours of careful movement, the force reaches its target, and the ambush is on! In seconds, the soldier finds himself looking down the barrel of a rifle.

...

This description, you'll be surprised to know, has nothing to do with the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit. It is the story of an arrest I carried out as an IDF soldier, in the Nablus casbah, about 10 years ago. The "soldier" was a 17-year-old boy, and we kidnapped him because he knew "someone" who had done "something."

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saigon68]

94. Au Revoir

[MrPrax]

27. ROFL...

You guys never learn...

first post but long time DU fan

If this were EVEN true, then you would plainly see that there is a great deal of support for Israel's position.

The stakes are not nearly as high for ANYONE as they are for Israel.
:rofl:

[Toots]

34. And how has this heavy handedness worked for them so far?

If it worked they would not still be fighting the exact same battles they have for centuries. And just out of curiosity why is it that Israel is so universally hated. I know of no other country that has that reputation although the USA is gaining ground in a hurry.

[bennywhale]

48. WElcome to DU. I would disagree to a certain extent

that its not "In other words, the correct measurement of the response is not proportionality, but effectiveness in stopping -- and preventing future -- rocket attacks."

It is a question of proportionality AND effectiveness. Never mind that the operation in Lebanon is counter productive, (by killing 100s of innocent lebanese they will swell hezbollah and its supporters by thousands) or cmpletely brutal and immoral, it is not a proportionate response to the threat they face.

Hezbollah has not got the capacity to damage Israel greatly, it has the capacity to carry out random acts of murder with rockets.
Terrorist groups have always had this capacity on any country. The IRA continually bombed britain and were based in Ireland much of the time. They had the capacity to murder Britain's randomly at virtually any time. Britain did not destroy half of dublin looking for them in response to the threat they faced. They operated a covert war, plus negotiation to eliminate the threat.

Israel it seems to me is being disproportionate, inneffective and quite honestly veangeful and murderous in its attacks on lebanon. It appears to be out of control and is engaged in revenge.

this is letting down the Israeli people who will be put in further long term danger by this, it is letting themselves and thier own humaity down and it is letting down democracy and the civilised world at large

Its very sad

[lumberjack_jeff]

50. You're right, it's not punishment nor revenge. It's terror.

The leadership of Lebanon has asked for international help in rooting out the terrorist organizations operating in the south. This request has fallen on deaf ears.

As another poster downthread noted, the strategic resources of terrorists are civilian recruits. Israel is 'removing those resources' by bombing the homes and apartments in which they live.

[tabasco]

62. In a military operation, targeting locations that have nothing to do

with attacks on your force, in retribution, is a war crime.

"We will destroy ten buildings in City X for every rocket that comes from Location Y."

The Israelis openly state that the purpose of the attacks is retribution.

The technology exists to locate the firing point of rockets and destroy that location very quickly.

If that location is open desert, then the operation becomes - find the rocket crew - NOT "let's bomb ten buildings that were unrelated to the attack."

[LostinVA]

66. Long time fan, eh?

Oh boy.

Am especially nice touch is the patronizing attitude saying we can't think on our own: we only dislike what Israel is doing because of Bush.

Oh boy.

It's like glass, you know?

[Lindacooks]

74. Sorry, according to the Geneva convention Israel is

committing war crimes because the response is not proportional. There are laws and rules, even in war to prevent atrocities even warmongers will not stand for.

Blindly supporting Israel no matter what is like supporting a self-destructive relative who is on the path to destruction. Sometimes love means telling someone to stop.

[breakaleg]

96. Saying Israel has a right to defend itself "absolutely" is like saying

they can defend themselves "at all costs". And they can't.

BUT in this case, launching an offensive attack on another nation is an act of aggression, not defence.

I believe Israel has a right to exist. But they have to make peace with their neighbours. And stealing their land, invading their countries, killing their children, is not the way to go! A child could see that.

So, the next logical step is to realize that they don't really want peace. They want land. At all costs.

[Critters2]

97. Interesting

but the Torah disagrees with you. "An eye for an eye", no exceptions, no rationalizations. Precisely to prevent the kind of escalation we're seeing.

[msmcghee]

98. Refreshing post from a new member of DU.

Welcome - and welcome to your reasonable analysis of the situation. But put on your flame proof suit if you plan to argue that position around here. Just remember there many here who agree with you - who are cheering you on but who have been thoroughly singed by the flames sent their way when they hit the SUBMIT button.

Cheers :hi:

[muriel_volestrangler]

102. That poster was tombstoned

A 'cyber soldier', perhaps?

[msmcghee]

103. That's hard to understand.

What did he say that was so offensive? Perhaps he said something in one of those deleted posts that I can't see. But his OP was right-on IMO.

[SharonRB]

106. Welcome to DU

[crim son]

30. I think the post was sarcasm. n/t

[wtmusic]

31. Yep...it's right here in the "Post-9/11 Testament" nt

[anotherdrew]

54. no this is the roman practice of decimation.

maybe next they'll nail civilians to crosses all along the road

[IndianaGreen]

84. Israel's brutality in Lebanon is a long ways off from matching Rome's

Israel also has a long ways to go to match America's cruelty in Iraq and Afghanistan and, unlike the US, Israel still has managed to maintain a vibrant democratic society compared to America, and that's even with the shabby treatment that Israeli Arabs gets.

That's another version of proportionality!

[Crunchy Frog]

2. Collective punishment.

Clearly a violation of international law. My sympathies for Israel have completely evaporated at this point.

[jonnyblitz]

3. gee, I wonder where they got this "collective punishment"

idea from?

[Scurrilous]

70. Civil rights group challenges Halutz

In letter to Defense Minister Amir Peretz, Association for Civil Rights in Israel condemns as illegal IDF chief’s comment that ‘for every Katyusha barrage on Haifa, 10 Dahiya buildings will be bombed’

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3280788,00.html

<snip>

"The Association for Civil Rights in Israel appealed to Defense Minister Amir Peretz after IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Dan Halutz apparently said that “for every Katyusha barrage on Haifa, 10 more buildings in the Dahiya neighborhood of south Beirut will be bombed."

The association complained that Peretz must clarify to Halutz that it is completely unacceptable to motivate military activity on revenge.

"The grave and illegal targeting of Israeli citizens does not justify such illegal orders, which means the indiscriminate targeting of civilians and civilian interests," the association said."

<snip>

"In a letter to the defense minister, members of the association wrote, "Striking civilians and civilian infrastructure and using intentional means of intimidation and terrorizing civilian populations is forbidden by international humanitarian law, and could be war crimes."

The group said: "There appears to be a black flag of clear illegality waving over the chief of staff’s remarks."



IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Dan Halutz on the targeted assassination of Sheikh Salah Shahada which killed an additional 16 Palestinians, mostly civilians:

"If you want to know what I feel when I release a bomb – I feel a slight knock on the wing of the plane when the bomb is released. After a second it passes, and that’s all."

[tocqueville]

4. collective punishment is a well defined war crime

probably another non-ratified convention ?

[Marie26]

33. Israel ratified the Fourth Geneva Conv.,

which explicitly forbids collective punishment against civilians. I can't believe they actually came out & said this. The US was letting it go on a wink & a nod, but it's pretty hard to deny what's going on now.

[IndianaGreen]

5. Looks like Israel learned the wrong lessons from the Holocaust

and have decided to adopt the same tactics the Germans used on Occupied Europe.

This is a public admission of war crimes. The fact that they are Israelis does not excuse their crimes anymore than if they had been American.

[jus_the_facts]

20. That's my sentiment exactly.....

:(

[wtmusic]

25. Amazing how quickly the oppressed can become the oppressor

but then, it's a different world after 9/11.

[ShortnFiery]

43. Yes, sadly Israel's Collective Punishment of destroying an entire

nation is clearly a war crime. I'm saddened beyond belief. :cry:

[ckramer]

37. Exactly

They have gone mad.

[anotherdrew]

77. no these are the tactics the romans used on the zelots. DECIMATION

SHAME

[izzie]

6. Do not like to hear that. I have read to many WW2 histories.

That will also mean Hezebollah will do the same so around and around it goes.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scurrilous]

9. As if Halutz wasn't in enough trouble already...

East J'lem residents file more war crimes complaints in U.K (09/15/05)


<snip>

"Residents of East Jerusalem whose homes were demolished by the municipality on the grounds they did not obtain the proper construction permits have decided to file complaints in the United Kingdom against inspectors, for alleged war crimes.

Building inspectors from the Jerusalem municipality may want to think twice before vacationing in Europe after criminal complaints have been sworn out in the U.K. against Major General (res.) Doron Almog and the current and former chiefs of staff, Major General Dan Halutz and Major General (res.) Moshe Ya'alon. Each year, the Interior Ministry and the Jerusalem municipality destroy dozens of buildings in East Jerusalem that were built illegally, after obtaining judicial demolition orders.

The idea of filing complaints abroad against municipal employees was first raised about six months ago in talks between the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions (ICAHD) and a British law firm specializing in human rights law. The focus is on Micha Ben-Nun, the head of the municipality's licensing department, and Zvi Schneider, who oversees construction in the Jerusalem District for the Interior Ministry. Complaints against them have been filed in Britain, but no court date has been set. ICAHD intends to expand the scope of its activities and file complaints against more senior officials or lower-ranked city inspectors.

"We've been planning this move for half a year now," said Meir Margalit of ICAHD yesterday. "We approached British solicitor Daniel Machover, whose office specializes in human rights. Our main charge is that the demolition of the homes of an innocent civilian population is a violation of international law, specifically of the Fourth Geneva Convention, which prohibits an occupying state from harming the civilian population except in the course of a military operation," Margalit said. "We believe that in a few more years, all of the European Union member states will be closed to those people ," Margalit said."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=100695

[ixion]

10. which is precisely the problem with Israel

IMO.

[rman]

11. deliberately targeting civilians, 10 times as much as the terrorists.

[jack bauer]

89. Tageting civilians?

Israel had constantly warned people to leave areas prior hitting it.

I swear some of you Noam Chomsky types are absolutely blinded by your politics. I am not defending Israel, but to say they are worse than Hesbollah? Are you kidding me? I would like to know if there is room in the DNC for dissention on some matters. In Pennslyvania, there's room for a pro-life candidate for Senator. I realize however there is no room for Joe Lieberman in the DNC. Where are the lines?
From and earlier post, I am still waiting for someone to show me the flaw in my logic.
If you disarm Hezbollah there would be peace.
If you disarm Israel there would be slaughter.

There are extremists that want you dead. They want me dead. They want Christians dead, Jews dead, incorrect Muslim sects dead.

These are the people that are at war all over the world. Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Quaeda, insurgents, PLO, etc. The names change the common goal remains the same.

These people target civilians. They target them in Muslim weddings, at night clubs, at pizza shops, on buses, on trains, on roadsides. They target men, women, children. They target them in India, in Japan, in Iraq, in Indonesia, in the Philipines, in the Sudan. There is little regard for who they kill, just as long as they kill.
If possible, they will saw the heads off of people, while they scream, beg for mercy.

Please make no mistake about it, these people want you dead. Dead because of your religion, dead because of your lack of religion, dead because you may be shiite, or sunni, or sufi, or Wahhabi, or Christian, or because you live in a modern culture, because your women don't cover their face. dead because of rock music. dead because they just really like the idea of 72 virgins.

Yes, Even their most ardent American defenders, they want you dead too, and the people you hate the very most, are working every day, to make damn sure that doesn't happen.

If those beliefs make me a right wing kool-aid drinker, fine. Pass some over, I prefer lime, but grape is ok too. I'll go down to the court house and change my party affiliation tomorrow.

[whosinpower]

95. The flaw in your logic

Is that Hizbollah was born out of the atrocities of the Israeli occupation of Lebanon and the ongoing strife of the palestinians.

You cannot disarm them. Unless you are intending on slaughtering millions of people. It will not work - because for every bomb dropped on innocents, for every civilian whisked away never to be seen again - there are ten angry hostile individuals who seek justice. And if those 10 angry individuals have no voice in any courts, if they have no place or institution to gain either restitution or at the very least a recognition of wrong doing - then, inevitably they turn to violent means.

Make no mistake about it - you want hisbollah to become irrelevant - then ADDRESS THE PALISTINIAN CRISIS IN A FAIR MANNER. Last time Israel had a fair leader who wanted peace with Palistine - THEY MURDERED HIM - AND IT WASN'T THE PALESTINIANS WHO DID THE DEED - IT WAS RIGHT WING NUTCASE JEWISH SETTLERS.

Your rhetoric is empty - void - propeganda used to justify murder. Israel wants peace - but they also want it all. They do not support a two state solution - and have worked very hard to make the prospect of a viable state of Palestine an impossibility. You only have to look at the wall - at the enclaves of palestinians who are seperated from their livelihoods, from their land. You have only to look at what is going on in Gaza as I write. The illegal settlements continue at a frantic pace now - tear down a few to satisfy the international minders and build twice as many somewhere else.

But if your intent is to violently and militarily disable Hizbollah - it will never ever ever work unless you are prepared to commit genocide. That is just plain wrong.

[Nihil]

108. Don't bother appealing to logic.

Have a look at that troll's profile (while it's still visible).
:eyes:

[jack bauer]

109. the Wall

I will address the final point of your post regarding the wall. Why is it Israel's responsiblity to employ the Palestinians. There was no wall, then people walked onto Israel buses, malls, outdoor shops, police stations and blew themselves up.

Hmm, what to do.

Maybe we could give up more land. ok, done. Still more exploding Palestinians. Well since they have their land, we have theirs, they are free to elect Hamas as their leadership, fine. That probably won't help slow down the ongoing exploding Palestinian issue. I don't blame them for putting up a wall. Two countries, one border, it's theirs to protect. If Hamas wants to export suicide bombers, let them figure out how to employ and look out of the welfare of their constituents. I don't see how that's Israel's responsibility.

As far as occupation, where was the outrage over the Syrian occupation of Lebanon? Sure it got some attention when prior to the pull out, why isn't anyone kidnapping Syrian soldiers, lobbing rockets into Demascus?

One closing question: I understand the condemnation of Israel, and how they have handled this. I tend to see both sides of that argument. There is a lot of finger pointing at them with the accusation they target women and children. Could anyone target women and children more than terrorists? I mean freedom fighters that blow themselves up at shopping centers, buses, etc.

[IndianaGreen]

13. Eitan Cabel: "I admit I had hoped for better from the army."

But in the first openly expressed reservations by an Israeli minister on the success of the offensive, minister without portfolio Eitan Cabel said: "I admit I had hoped for better from the army."

General Udi Adam, the commander of Israel's northern military region, said the offensive will continue for "several weeks" although it now appears Israel has backed off from a full-scale invasion.

http://www.afp.com/english/news/stories/060724105948.go8jkug2.html

[Marie26]

35. Halutz is a bastard

He's the one who gave this order. He seems like a neo-con, w/o any concern for human rights or int. law. When he was nominated Chief of the General Staff, liberal organizations in Israel protested & brought a case to the Supreme Court to try to prevent his appointment. IMO, it's too bad they lost.

"He'll shoot and he won't weep" - http://peaceandjustice.org/article.php?story=20050228184821966&mode=print

[IndianaGreen]

38. We have to stop bombs falling in Lebanon and rockets falling in Israel

But the United States is blocking any movement towards a ceasefire. It appears that the neocons in Israel are as deluded as our neocons. We went into Iraq thinking that our mighty military would vanquish that nation. Here we are going on the fourth year of this war and things are worse than ever. Likewise, Israel went into Lebanon thinking that her mighty military would vanquish that nation, and all she has accomplished is turned the entire world, and many Americans against her.

We must demand a ceasefire and a negotiated settlement that includes the release of all detainees held by Israel, Hezbollah, and Hamas.

[Marie26]

40. How will that happen?

The US is doing nothing, & we're basically just cheering Israel on. We refuse to talk to Syria, or Iran, the primary suppliers to Hizbollah, because "we don't like them." Mideast experts keep saying that it's possible to turn Syria away from Iran/Hiz. w/creative diplomacy, but the Bush Ad. won't even negotiate with them. Instead, we're pushing them even more towards Iran. Bush's only idea is to tell Kofi to tell Assad to tell Hizbollah to "stop this shit." Brilliant. :eyes: I think at this point Larry King has the best chance of getting a ceasefire - at least he's talking to the parties involved.

[alcibiades_mystery]

14. A petulant and asinine statement

This cannot fail to remind people of the various declarations of Nazi commanders in occupied Europe. Unworkable and rhetorically fucking stupid. Will this numbnuts get fired? I sniff a medal coming...

[warrens]

56. This is precisely what the Gestapo said in France

And other occupied countries. Ten executions for every soldier killed by the resistance.

I am shocked that they would say this publicly.

[jack bauer]

90. How ironic you mention France.

It obviosly worked there, as there was NO resistance.

[tblue37]

17. Whenever a Nazi soldier was killed in an occupied territory,

10 local citizens were killed in retaliation.

You'd think the Israelis would want to avoid such company.

[LostinVA]

24. That's the first thing I thought of

*sigh*

[Roland99]

18. This is BEYOND collective punishment! It's all-out war crimes!

[IndianaGreen]

26. Imagine the outcry if Rumsfeld has said the same thing about Iraq

and compare that outcry with the silence from our two political parties when the war crimes are committed by Israel.

Had 9-11 happened this year instead of 2001, no one in the world would have been surprised that we got hit, and there would be very few people feeling sorry for us.

[Roland99]

32. We can rest assured Condi will wow them with her "air guitar diplomacy"!

:rofl:

[ShortnFiery]

58. And her fashion sense, for sure once the bombing ceases

Condi will get all the Lebanese "new shoes." :puke: :grr:

[Marie26]

29. War crime

It's pretty clear now.

[Poll_Blind]

36. Yep. Open, unsrestrained war crimes. n/t

PB

[wtmusic]

39. A piece of paper don't mean nuttin'

To the powerful, there is no such thing as an unbreakable promise. Doesn't bode well for the Constitution. :(

[Violet_Crumble]

42. Wait! Have we consulted Dershy yet?

I think you'll find that we can all be assured that people who live in those buildings are actually complicit with terrorists and therefore not real civilians, and furthermore the use of the meaningless word 'residential' by the biased UN is a reason why Dershy really needs to write an article redefining the term 'residential areas' so that we're all clear on the fact that any structure housing people who live there is a residential building if that home is located in Israel. Things aren't so cut and dried in Lebanon, where terrorist supportin' buildings housing families will be warned by IDF leaflet drops to leave immediately. If those buildings won't leave, then they are not residential buildings, but providing material and emotional support to the terrorists and we will all have to understand that the destruction of all buildings housing families is tragic, but some are more tragic than others. How can anyone compare the destruction of an innocent two-year old home in Israel to the destruction of a 30 year old 'home' in Lebanon that just refuses to get out of the way and in doing so is complicit with terrorists??? ;)

[IndianaGreen]

44. And if people do leave in response to the IDF leaflets

they will still get bombed by Israel. A lose-lose situation for the Lebanese!

[Violet_Crumble]

45. Indy, get with the program!

Apparently Dershy considers that a minor technicality not worth mentioning in his article. What are you? Some bleeding heart Markist or something? ;)

[jack bauer]

91. Violet:

The ramones suck

[MrPrax]

47. LOL...

A classic...!!

Thank You...for a cynical laugh.

Dershowitz is probably busy at the moment coming out with a legal rationale to nuke Tehran

[wtmusic]

63. Those uncooperative buildings are everywhere

they used to be in Fallujah too.

[jonnyblitz]

68. !!!

:rofl: that made me laugh, sorry. :D

[BrotherBuzz]

41. Self-defense and collective punishment is what separates

the good guys from the bad dudes. Thank goodness Israel is only acting for self-defense, yet it sure looks like the Israeli military is invoking the spirit of Nazi collective punishment. I'm confused :shrug:

[kamtsa]

69. If Israel would target civilians ...

... there would be 30,000 dead civilians, not 300.

[BrotherBuzz]

71. I thought Israel was targeting buildings

:shrug:

[ima_sinnic]

46. mass-murdering war crimnals

I am, however, heartened by news that some Israeli citizens are protesting the atrocities against Lebanon:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/jul2006/isra-j18.shtml

For that I feel the greatest compassion; their frustration at what their government is doing is akin to ours for what our own is doing.

[bennywhale]

49. If this is true i find it very hard to

disagree with your statement leading your post.

The Israeli people are being duped and let down by their leaders, and it is they who will suffer in the long term.

Very Sad

[anotherdrew]

55. decimation - what's next? slow death for civilans nailed to crosses?

this goes far beyond sane. it's time to shut down their military, send in peace keepers.

[jollyreaper2112]

57. irony

And the ad on this page is selling the "Milk and Honey" camp in Israel.

[goforit]

61. Keep it up Israel. The maturity level of these leaders are unbelievable.

Keep throwing your stones like little boys in a playground.

[melnjones]

67. Simply amazing, especially given the fact

that a rocket doesn't even necessarily "destroy" a whole building. More like puts a hole in it.

On edit...that's if the rocket even HITS anything.

[devilgrrl]

73. Yeah.... that'll solve everything!

:eyes::sarcasm::eyes:

This whole thing is BULLSHIT!

:nuke:

[zara]

76. Targeting civilians is wrong no matter who does it.

In World War II the Nazis had a policy to kill 10 of "yours" for every one of theirs. Barbaric.

This comes down to the position on morality of war. Either war has moral limits, or anything is justified to protect your side.

The latter position promotes genocide. It is barbaric.

War must have limits. Self defense and proportion are the historical principle.

Bush Co's view is that US ISRAEL Good/ ENEMY Bad. If you are an enemy of the US or Israel, anything goes.

Isn't that a recipe for a 1000 years war?

Don't we need to struggle to get along?

That's where an eye for eye comes out. Limiting yourself to proportional redress.

Or should it be, try to shoot at my eye, and I'll blind ten of you.

: (

[krkaufman]

81. One word... RETRIBUTION. This statement puts to rest...

... the notion that Israel has been bombing Lebanon in an attempt to get at Hizbollah.

[6000eliot]

85. Or any notion that this is about self-defense.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[twaddler01]

87. Yeah thats logical

Although I never see an invasion as logical....

[MGD]

88. He who fights w/ monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster

And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
Friedrich Nietzsche

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[superconnected]

99. Ego

Israel is on an ego trip. It's murderous.

There's nothing about "peace" in any of their actions. They don't want peace. They want to flex their muscle while they think no one can stop them.

The whole - blame hezbolah is asinine. bombing Surburbs is not going to win any wars against terror or anything else. All it does is create more terrorists - oh and kill a whole bunch of innocent civilians - often small children.

It's murder and only murder. It's israels on a power trip. No better than any of the
"crazy" arab nations. The whole you hit us we'll hit 10 buildings of yours shows only one thing - they have an insane leader who doesn't care about real diplomacy.

Doing that crap really will start WWIII.

And yeah, it's exactly how bush responded to iraq - carpet bombed for two years killing innocent civilians while saying they were winning the war on terror. No plan for peace, it was never the aim. Bushs egotistical murderous philosophy adopted by israel.

[Barkley]

101. Hey Israel, Goliath Lost!

Hizbollah is making the IDF look pathetic.

Much like the Iraqis are doing to us.

Striking 10 houses in south Beirut for every rocket

where did they get that number?

Like the U.S., Israel is isolating itself internationally
and realize that it has lost.

[genieroze]

105. This makes Israel look really bad.