Bill Bans Crossing State Lines for Abortion Without Parents' Permission

[LiberalHeart]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Taking a teenager across state lines to get an abortion without a parent's knowledge would become a crime punishable by prison under a bill that headed toward Senate passage Tuesday.

Struggling to defend their majority this election year, Republican sponsors said the bill supports what a majority of the public believes: that a parent's right to know takes precedence over a young woman's right to have an abortion.

http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=5196043

[Master Mahon]

1. Wow, this is effective!

The parents will be taking the teenager across state lines.
I'm surprised the Goobers didn't include the parents in this felony rap!

[Megahurtz]

2. I cannot believe how much damage

this fucked-up Administration is doing to this country in such a short time!:grr:

Now they want to turn teenage girls into breeding cattle!:mad:

This is just un-fucking-believable!:puke:

[RC]

4. They need the canon fodder.

being sent to kill & be killed in wars of choice is not immoral. Those are already born.

[Richard Steele]

66. Well I just hit my "outrage limit" for the day.

And just then, I saw your sig line.
I'm off to drink some beer.:toast:

[Megahurtz]

68. I need one too!

:beer:after today........or maybe more than two LOL!!!!

Cheers to ya!!!:toast:

[ugarte]

3. Of course no Democrat would dream of filibustering...

It's just, you know, too much trouble. One more nail in the Roe v Wade coffin.

[depakid]

7. This is why I expect the Dems will lose again

for a 7th straight time.

In all but about two instances on some healthcare bills in May, they've shown themselves- as a party- to be completely ineffectual. The have a dozen or more members who votie with the far right on almost every single issue no matter how apalling the policy or how extreme the nominee.

Voters aren't going to reward cowardly behavior- they'll vote for corruption over cowardice evry time.

Wait and see.

[bemildred]

5. I'm sure glad they have time for this important stuff.

No need to fret about foreign affairs oversight or the constiturional crisis.

[Bake]

6. Typical Puke! Coburn!

Abstinence is the best way to prevent teenage pregnancy, responded Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Oklahoma. "How many people really think it's in the best interest of young people to be sexually active outside of marriage? Does anything positive ever come from that?" Coburn asked.

Really, Tom? How many people think it's really REALISTIC to think that teenagers WON'T engage in sexual activity? What a freakin' dumbass!

Bake

[karlrschneider]

13. Coburn's dad (my boss for years) had a LOT of sex outside (his)

marriage...he fucked every woman he could get his lecherous hands on. He even kept an apartment in Tulsa to take his 'trysts' to.
:eyes:

[last_texas_dem]

53. "Does anything positive ever come of that?"

Well, obviously no child born outside of marriage has ever contributed anything positive to the world.

:sarcasm:

Coburn's such a dumbass...

[gumby]

8. The War on Women

keeps pace with
The War on Terror.

Seems that Women and Terror are the biggest Wars that are.

[KittyWampus]

114. "Women"? You Suggesting A Teenager Is A "Woman"?

because many, many DU'ers were outraged (rightfully) that an Iraqi teenage girl who was raped by American soldier was called a woman on the domestic news.

Any many DU'ers didn't even want a teenager called a YOUNG woman.

[Normal dude]

9. p.n.

While I would never consider myself to be
"conservative", I would like to know if my underaged
daughter was going to have an abortion. At a minimum, I would
want to help her deal with any physical or psychological
complications that could arise. I would also be pretty angry
with someone who whisked her off to have it done behind my
back.

[hack89]

10. As a father with a daughter, I agree whole heartedly. nt

[Captain Hilts]

47. A lot of parents would beat the crap out of their daughters...

if they knew they were pregnant.

[mike923]

59. And the other 99.999% of them wouldn't.

[Captain Hilts]

63. So would their boyfriends. Easy for a 'Mike' to say. nt

[gumby]

11. Well, that's nice "dude"

But what if you'se the one whe done the pushin'?

[Megahurtz]

14. Ha ha! Good Point!

That's one that some of these naive types just don't get!:dunce:

There are going to be a lot of abused girls that suffer
because of these Dad's that are just dyin' to know!

And my question to these types is, what would you do
if your daughter was going to get an abortion, would you stop her?
Have you ever thought that maybe she wants to keep her private parts to herself?
Did that thought ever cross your minds?

Just something to think about.:think:

[AngryOldDem]

16. Speaking as a mother...

...who did the "pushin'" to bring my daughter into the world, damned straight I would want to know if she is planning to have an abortion, especially if she is still a minor. That way, if she should get sick, or start to bleed, or have other complications, I would know what was going on.

I am pro-choice. But I DO want to be involved in my underage daughter's health care. That is not only my right, but my **responsibility**.

So sue me. It's really sad that an opinion like this and the few others that have drawn fire are in the obvious minority here.

Not saying anymore.

[Megahurtz]

18. Either you got the "pushin'" phrase wrong, or I did,

however, I was referring to incest by a father. Ya know, that kind of pushin'?:think:

Yeah, I'm a Mother too by the way, and if the above scenario were the case
I would hate to have some sick whacko incestuous-pervert-type Dad
force my daughter to have the baby......

Wouldn't you?

Jeez, some people live such sheltered lives.....

Lucky you!

[Yupster]

42. So a stranger can take my underage daughter

out of state without my knowledge because who knows, I might just be a child molestor?

What kind of BS is that?

[Solon]

43. Why is this about you and you alone?

Look at Hockymom's post, number 38, why should this notification/permission shit be allowed at all? Why the hell should any parent override their child's best interest?

[Yupster]

46. Because I really am a parent

and if my minor kid disappears one day and I find out that someone I don't know has secretly taken him/her to another state without telling my wife or I, there's going to be hell to pay.

Forget the reason why.

Minor children cannot be taken from their parents homes and moved to other states without their parents' knowledge. That's insanity.

[Solon]

57. Even if its to save their lives?

Look, you most likely have a wonderful relationship with your kids, if one of them is in trouble, in this manner or another, they most likely don't have to worry about getting beaten, kicked out of the house, etc. But not ALL parents are like that, if this law CAUSES one child to lose her life because her mother punishes her for being pregnant, as what happened in Alabama, or decides to throw herself downstairs, etc. to force a miscarriage, then this is a BAD LAW!

[Yupster]

70. And parents beat up their kids for getting bad report cards too

but I'm not willing to give up my rights as a parent to know what's happening to my kid because someone else abuses someone else somewhere else.

[Megahurtz]

60. Let's just HOPE that

you have a good, honest, loving, and trustworthy enough relationship with your kids that they wouldn't want to keep any secrets from you to begin with, so you wouldn't have that problem.

And by the way, if "there's hell to pay" as you say, then
that's a good enough reason why your kids may never want to tell you anything.

[Yupster]

69. Kids keep secrets from

even the most loving, trusting, honest parents in the world.

And if my 12 year old daughter (just as an example - I don't currently have a 12 year old daughter) disappears from her bed one night and is then found in the next state driving around with a 26 year old guy, there would indeed be hell to pay, but my daughter would not be the one suffering the results - the guy will be. Does that make me an old-fashioned dad?

[iverglas]

76. yup

Now -- how are you planning to compel your hypothetical 12-year-old daughter to inform you that she is pregnant and planning to continue the pregnancy and have a child?

Are you much likely to notice that this is happening until it's too late to have a nice chat with her about the risks of pregnancy and childbirth at any time, let alone at her age, and about all the adverse socioeconomic and psychological effects of immature motherhood?

How 'bout if she miscarries in the middle of the night, and you didn't even know she was pregnant? Shouldn't she have been FORCED to tell you, so you could be prepared to deal with all eventualities? Shouldn't she, in fact, need your PERMISSION in order to continue her pregnancy?

Now how can we make it a criminal offence for someone to aid and abet your hypothetical 12-year-old daughter in continuing her pregnancy without your knowledge?

There's gotta be somebody to blame for something there, I'm sure.


(edited to clear up a muddy question)

[Yupster]

78. It certainly takes a village doesn't it?

I want us all to work together to help parents.

If you're a neighbor and see my 12 year old taking drugs, I want you to tell me. Same thing if she's having sex, or pregnant.

I also want the doctors to work with me and the government too.

There's no way to make a kid tell his parents everything. Every kid is going to leave things out and also tell certain stories with a slight slant towards their direction.

The best we can do is help each other. If you see your neighbor's kids doing something the parents should know about, then tell them. \

For heaven's sake, don't work to keep the parents in the dark about things they should know.

[Megahurtz]

80. ...in a Perfect World.

:eyes:

[Yupster]

84. You think my above post was utopian?

I'm just saying to be good neighbors. Tell parents when their kids are doing something the parents should know about. Work with parents - not behind their backs.

Is that a utopian dream?

[Beaverhausen]

87. You'd better be sure the parents you are telling won't harm their child

Newsflash...not all parents are "good" parents.

There are many who are abusive and may harm their daughter if they found out she is pregnant.

There are also some fathers/stepfathers/mom's boyfriends who may actually be the father of the teen's child.

Do you honestly believe that every teen who tells her parents she is pregnant and wants an abortion is going to be met with care and concern?

[Yupster]

89. Have we really reached the point as a society

where a neighbor seeing their neighbors ten year old giving a BJ to the local 15 year old wouldn't tell the girl's mother?'

Or if you saw your neighbor's 15 year old shooting heroin, you wouldn't tell their parents?

Are we really that scared today?

I'm not. I hope most of us aren't.

As far as parents go, there's a story from when I was a schoolteacher.

I taught ninth grade, and to get to tenth grade you had to get high school credits. There wasn't any more passing along.

Anyway, therefore there were some kids in the ninth grade who were there for three years just waiting to be old enough to drop out.

Maybe the worst kid I ever had was one on his third year. The asst. principal told me he was just waiting for his birthday to drop out, and if I'd leave him alone, he'd leave me alone.

The system had completely given up on this kid, and I was just as bad. He put his head on the desk and kept it thwere all through class. He was in trouble with the law and knew he needed to keep quiet.

One day a kid in the class said she had seen a show on tv about just what we were talking about in class the day before. This other kid raised his head off his desk and said out loud, "You didn't see nothing you stupid fishhead," and put his head back down. It was pretty funny.

Anyway, one day I met his mom at the school and she asked me what I thought she could do to help her son. It was the most ashamed I have ever been in my life because I hadn't done a damned thing to help her son.

That incident 20 years ago had a profound effect on me. The main point I got out of it was that to the overwhelming number of students today, there is no one who cares more for them than their parents. In this case the kid had given up, the teachers, the school, and the whole system. The only person who gave a damn about this kid was his mother.

So I'm going to err on the side of the parents when talking about the best interests of the kids - though I'm sure willing to include judicial protections.

[iverglas]

82. well, I guess that was an answer

Not.

Did you really miss the point?

Don't we find it just the weensiest tad odd that ABORTION is what the scum promoting this legislation are targeting ... when full-term pregnancy and childbirth, not to mention child-rearing, are so undeniably more risky for teenaged girls?

Seen any bills lately making it an offence to take a teenaged girl across state lines so that she can continue her pregnancy and have a child without telling her parents?

No, neither have I.

But then I'm in Canada, and we don't see any of this kind of shit. And don't expect to see it, even with our local right wing in power at the moment. Not even they would think they could get this past a population that actually values rights and freedoms.

(And I'm also left puzzled by this "state lines" business: are state lines some kinda magic thing, like ley lines? Is there some great big huge difference between someone in New York City driving a person up to Albany for an abortion vs. driving her over to New Jersey?)

It's kind of a funny picture, though. Imagine a bunch of white men in suits grinning after passing a bill making it an offence to take a teenaged girl across state lines so that her parents don't find out she's pregnant and NOT terminating the pregnancy ...

[Yupster]

85. State lines are not important to me

I don't want anyone taking my minor children anywhere without my wife's or my knowledge - especially if I don't know them.

Im surprised that's a minority opinion.

[iverglas]

86. you're good at this

Do you plan to respond to my actual point anytime soon? I'll be going home to make dinner in a couple of hours.

Let me try stating it again for you:

If the legislators voting for these measures -- and YOU -- actually gave a damn about pregnant teenaged girls, or even about the "rights" of parents of teenaged girls, what they would be enacting, and you would be demanding, would be measures to ensure that your daughters could not continue a pregnancy without informing you.

In fact it is obvious to the point that one cannot avoid the red marks left on one's face from being slapped with it that what they are doing has nothing to do with promoting the welfare of teenaged girls, or even promoting the legitimate interest of parents in their children's welfare.

How wide a berth can you give the point this time?

[Yupster]

90. I'm sorry

I just came back from taking my kid for a quick swim.

Maybe my eyes are still cloudy. I'm having trouble understanding your point.

You're saying that I should be demanding that there should be a law passed demanding that my daughter not continue her pregnancy? Am I understanding that right?

It's not making any sense to me. The decision should be my daughter's shouldn't it? I guess I'm just left scratching my head and squinting. Why would I want a law demanding my daughter or anyone's daughter must get an abortion?

I'm lost.

Anyway, I don't believe an adult should be able to take a minor child anywhere without their parents' permission. So if you take your neighbor's ten year old boy and take him 300 miles to an amusement park without telling his parents, I'd say you should be subject to arrest, for stupidity at least. Same for just about any other reason. You just don't take kids who are not your own, to other places without their parents' permission. Would any of us do that? It seems crazy. If we have one of my kid's friends over and we go for an ice cream cone, we even call his parents to tell him. I wouldn't dream of taking a kid overnight without telling the parent. They'd go nuts looking for him/her. Wouldn't anyone?

[iverglas]

92. have you stopped beating your daughter yet?

You're saying that I should be demanding that there should be a law passed demanding that my daughter not continue her pregnancy? Am I understanding that right?

You're pretending to think that that's what I said? Am I understanding that right?

At least there's a possibility that the statement about you that I have framed as a question is true. A pretty good possibility, I'd say.

There's no possibility whatsoever that the statement about me that you have framed as a question is true. None whatsoever. There isn't even any serious possibility that you could think it is.

It's not making any sense to me. The decision should be my daughter's shouldn't it?

Gee. Ya think?

Why would I want a law demanding my daughter or anyone's daughter must get an abortion?

I have no idea -- and I have no idea why you'd be asking me a question that implies that I say you would.

Let me conclude by saying that you really aren't nearly as good at this as you think you are -- and that the real reasons for your support of the legislation are transparently obvious.

[Yupster]

100. Sorry but you've lost me completely

Oh well.

[Megahurtz]

94. This isn't about 10 year old boys, amusement parks, and ice cream cones,

(And I take it by the way you talk your kid or kids are still very young)

[Yupster]

101. It's about transporting kids from their homes

to other places without their parents' knowledge.

To me that's the key point and something that should be very illegal.

It really isn't that important to me why you're doing it.

Whether you're driving my kid to an amusement park in Dallas, his girlfriend's house in Albuquerque, the Smithsonian in Washington, an abortion clinic in Houston or a drug dealer in Austin, you better let my wife and I know before you take my minor child anywhere.

And I have a kid right at the age where I have to start worrying about this kind of stuff.

[Megahurtz]

102. A girl who is old enough to get pregnant

is old enough (and mature enough) to make her own decision about her body without YOUR consent.

[Yupster]

104. Is that what that post was about?

I wouldn't have guessed that in 100 guesses.

Anyway, I agree. I believe it must be a woman's right to choose 100 %.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with you saying a woman who is old enough to get pregnant is mature enough for much of anything.

If a 12 year old gets drunk at a paty and then gets pregnant, she's hardly proved her maturity level.

Did I say anything about consent? I didn't mean to. My issue is a parent has a right to know where his/her minor children are being taken, who is taking them there, and what's being done to them.

Hardly controversial I wouldn't have thought, but I've been surprised for sure.

On edit - the Iverglas post above is the one I was baffled by, not the one I'm responding to here.

[Telly Savalas]

116. I think the "state lines" provision is in there

to make the constitutionality of the law more difficult to challenge.

It can be claimed that it's simply regulating interstate commerce or something. Not that I'm defending the law...I'm just saying that's why it is the way it is.

[AngryOldDem]

55. It's not!

What is SO hard to grasp about the concept of a parent taking responsibility for the well-being of their child? How do people define "parenting" here?

What are my responsibilities when it comes to raising my children? Please, DU, fill me in.

Let's say I have absolutely NO problem with my 15-year-old getting an abortion. Do I also have NO problem with the following?

1) Who took her across state lines?
2) Where did she go? To a hospital? A clinic? A quack?
3) Are there any after effects or possible complications that could arise? (Specifically, I'm talking about bleeding. Once severe uterine bleeding begins, death is a very real possibility. And save the smartass comments: It nearly happened to me during the course of a late first-trimester miscarriage.)
4) What to do about follow-up visits to check on physical progress?
5) What about the age of my child? Any specific concerns because of her young age, in terms of lasting physical effects?

If the school can't give my kid an aspirin without me signing a million consent forms, then don't you think I am owed that same courtesy if my child undergoes a surgical procedure?

It is exactly because I have my child's "best interests" in mind that I WANT to be notified.

[AngryOldDem]

54. I know full well what you meant.

And while I didn't say it then, I'll say it now. I was offended by the implication of incest. Just how did incest come into this discussion, anyway? That is just a poor smokescreen and a stretch of logic to justify something that really cannot be justified -- allowing an invasive medical procedure to be performed on a minor without the parent's knowledge OR consent.

No, I don't live in a "perfect world" and am well aware that incest happens. But if every possible scenario were taken into account, there wouldn't be any laws on the books to begin with. It is really quite simple. A parent has the right and responsibility to look after and be involved in issues that involve the health and welfare of their child.

If you want to give away that right and responsibility toward your kid, then be my guest. My question: Where would it stop with you? If your kid wanted to cross state lines for sex, or drugs, or whatever hell the else she wanted to do, would that be OK? It's her body and right to privacy, right? Do you draw the line anywhere?

[Megahurtz]

58. The "implication" about incest is that

it happens. You can be offended as much as you want by that, as I am.

And incest came into the discussion because I said it.
And incest is all the reason more not to have a bogus law
preventing minors from obtaining abortions.

[Yupster]

75. Just let the 11 year old get her abortion

nice and quiet and put her right back into the same abusive situation so dad can get pregnant again, but whatever you do -- don't tell mom. We got to keep her in the dark.

And what happens if there are complications to the abortion?

The mom knows something's wrong. She knows the girl is going to the doctor, but at that point do you tell mom what's wrong with her daughter, or do you tell mom it's none of her business.

[Megahurtz]

79. So what makes you think she would NOT tell Mom?

Maybe she would, but with a lame law like this, she has to tell pervie-Dad too, like get his permission. And what? So you think the custody Courts are going to protect the child from pervie-Dad?

Not!

Maybe Mom enables Dad to do what he does, so maybe the abused girl cannot tell her either.

So you're going to see a lot more "runaways" with this bogus law!

You seriously need a reality check!:think:

[PansophicOne]

106. So the girl runs away and gets away from her dad...

If the girl is being molested by her father then her main concern should be getting help from teachers, police or other family. From there she could get the abortion, this law would not affect that at all. You, however, seem to think that she should get the abortion on her own and then go home where she can continue to be abused. WTF?

[iverglas]

107. seeeeeeeeeem

You, however, seem to think that she should get the abortion on her own and then go home where she can continue to be abused. WTF?

What the fuck, indeed.

Can you copy and paste the bits of the post that made it "seem" that this is what the poster was saying? To you, anyhow?

Just to pre-empt what I suspect is coming ...

Children cannot be forced to disclose sexual abuse or exploitation. Many children will deny it, for what that they consider to be good and strong reasons.

To make a child's access to abortion services conditional on disclosing sexual abuse or exploitation that she did not want to disclose would be intolerable.

Not because we should not encourage children to report such things -- but quite simply because requiring that they do so will undoubtedly result in more young women and girls not having access to abortion services because they won't comply with the disclosure requirement (which is what the notification/judicial bypass requirement amounts to).

Gosh, sometimes I wonder whether that's the real agenda behind all this stuff ...

Of course, some people might want to remember that having been effectively denied access to abortion services and compelled to continue their pregnancies, not many of these girls and young women are going to be getting maternal/prenatal health care until it's kinda late ...

[Megahurtz]

113. ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:rofl: And you say that to a person (me) who took her daughter on the run, away from an abusive father and lived underground for FIVE YEARS, because...the police, courts, and what-have-you did NOTHING to help!!!!!!!!!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Bloody Hilarious!!!

Where the hell did you get the idea that I of all people, suggested that the pregnant daughter go back home to her abusive father???

AHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Now I say WTF!!!:wtf:

:rofl:

[iverglas]

95. such oozing ... uh, respect ... for women

If your kid wanted to cross state lines for sex, or drugs, or whatever hell the else she wanted to do, would that be OK?

Yuppers.

Choosing not to experience the many adverse effects of teenaged pregnancy, childbirth and child-rearing (or child-relinquishment) is just sooooo analogous to choosing to use narcotics.

Maybe you can tell me, since your colleague seems to be unable to.

If you demand that your child inform you of her intention to terminate a pregnancy -- and that the state enforce your wishes by enacting legislation like this -- why aren't you squawking about your "right and responsibility" to be informed of your child's intention to continue a pregnancy?

Can't think of any way to enforce that "right"? I'm sure we could come up with one if we thunk hard.

A very simple one would be to punish anyone who crossed state lines with an underaged girl who planned to continue her pregnancy without telling her parents. That wouldn't cover the vast majority of pregnant teenagers choosing not to have abortions, but I doubt that the legislation under discussion here would cover a majority of pregnant teenagers choosing to have abortions. How many need to travel out of state for that purpose?

Well, maybe quite a few, given the state of reproductive health services in the US today. Hey, let's pick on the already victimized, eh?

Pregnancy and childbirth are risky for young teenagers -- far riskier than early abortions. Not to mention all the adverse health consequences that come with single parenthood at a young age and its attendant economic and social difficulties.

I'd think that as an upstanding, responsible parent, you'd be demanding that it be mandated that you be informed of your daughter's decision to continue her pregnancy.

I've got it. Make it a criminal offence for HER not to tell you. That should solve the problem.

[MiniMe]

44. You are a good mother, and it would probably not be necessary...

for you daughter to go across state lines. However, what about some of these fundies kids? They don't provide sex education because kids just shouldn't have sex, they tell them that condoms aren't effective to prevent pregnancy, and if one of these girls gets pregnant, their fundie parents just might lock the kid up in a room until it was too late to have an abortion. I don't know if these guys have daughters or not, but what would Frist, DeLay, or whoever the Senator was that said that teens just shouldn't have sex had one of their daughters get pregnant? My guess is that these kids would become teenage parents, the girl would have no say.

I'm really not trying to argue with you about this, I would have no problem with the parents knowing as long as the parents can't prevent the girl from having the abortion. This is just the first step of many for the repukes.

[AngryOldDem]

56. I can think of a hundred scenarios like that

But the bottom line is: The child is a minor. I am a parent. I have the right and responsibility to know.

[jbm]

71. but if she doesn't want you to be involved..

and she finds herself with an unwanted pregnancy and no legal way to end it, than she'll entertain the thought of a 'home cure'. Are you sure that's what you want? I'm a mom and I think I have a great relationship with my kid , but not everything in my childs life is about me. I want to leave as many safe options on the table as possible.

[ckramer]

98. You said it the best.

I totally agree with you.

On this issue, it's not about choice or about democrats or republicans, it's about the safty of minors, the right of parents with respect to their kids.

[Igel]

33. Then you do what you're likely to have to do anyway:

when you go to the judge for permission, you also request permission to leave the state.

[Crowdance]

12. Angry enough to throw that person into the federal penn?

Because that's what this law will do. It will also encourage these children to seek out unsafe sources of abortion if they feel they cannot turn to their parents, and other adults refuse to help them due to fear of prosecution. Of course we all hope that our daughters of any age would come to us if they required an abortion. But *I* would not want to sentence my daughter to death, nor my family members to prison, because she's afraid to talk to me.

[rodeodance]

28. -turning grandparents into criminals," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy

...Bush applauded the Senate action and urged the House and Senate to resolve their differences and send him a bill he said he would sign. "Transporting minors across state lines to bypass parental consent laws regarding abortion undermines state law and jeopardizes the lives of young women," he said in a statement.

Bowing to public support for parental notification and the GOP's 55-44-1 majority, Democrats spent the day trying to carve out an exemption for confidants to whom a girl with abusive parents might turn for help. It was rejected in floor negotiations.

Democrats complained that the measure was the latest in a series of bills designed chiefly to energize the GOP's base of conservative voters.

"Congress ought to have higher priorities than turning grandparents into criminals," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (news, bio, voting record), D-Mass.

[Vinca]

15. Then there are the dads who would beat the poor girl

within an inch of her life if they found out she was pregnant.

[Paulie]

17. Especially the ones that did it!

[Yupster]

41. Forget abortions,

I want to know if anyone is taking my underage children out of the state regardless of the purpose. Isn't that just common sense?

[cap]

45. no its not common sense...

if my daughter could not come to me and tell me she needed an abortion, something would be terribly wrong in our relationship. I would want her to go and get an abortion herself if she could not tell me and have me help her out. I would hope that she goes to Planned Parenthood in another state to get it done. I am not going to force her either way. She is stuck with those consequences for the rest of her life. She has made some adult decisions to get her into pregnancy and she has to face some adult consequences for the rest of her life.

Girls will show up with fake drivers licenses to get across state lines. Underage girls do the same for booze anyhow.

[Yupster]

48. I don't think anything would have to be wrong

with your relationship at all.

I think a young girl could have the best, most caring, most open parents in the world, and the young girl could still choose to not tell her parents she was pregnant.

She could just be generally scared or not want to disappoint them,so theoretically, if that happened to you, I wouldn't take it personally. Even under the best of circumstances, young people do not always make the most thought out decisions.

I would also encourage you as a parent to encourage your son/daughter to abide by whatever rules you and your spouse make. Personally, my kids are very clear that they are not to disappear and turn up in other states. We have to know where they are and who they are with.

It seems like a reasonable rule to my wife and I but we sure don't want to force our rules onto anyone else.

Maybe a note on the pillow from your 11 year old saying "Be back in two days mom. Can't tell you where I'm going," would be acceptable to you. That's fine. It wouldn't be acceptable to us.

[cap]

51. at the end of the day, it is acceptable to me.

I wouldnt be happy. I'd definitely be dragging the whole family in for counseling. But if that's what happened, I would accept her decision and accept that she would disappear for two days. I'd be calling the cops to find her... but I would live with it. Something would be terribly wrong between us that this would come to be.

If my daughter couldnt talk to me about this sort of thing, our family would be broken and would need help to get back together.

[xxqqqzme]

52. well, self righteousness rears it ugly

head! How fortunate there is NO teen ANY where in the US who is the victim of sexual assault by a family member - dad, brother, uncle, gradfather - THAT man should have a say in whether or not that teen has a pregnancy termination or not? HE should be informed? But a sister or aunt or grandmother becomes a criminal for assisting the victim.

MEN have NO business dictating treatment of any health matter affecting ONLY women!

[Yupster]

77. So tell the mother then

if you have something against fathers. But in my opinion, you need to tell one parent at least that a surgical procedure is about to be done to their minor child. As a dad I'd sure expect and insist on that. I get informed before my kid's class goes on a field trip.

And being informed of something and dictating treatment of it are very different things in my dictionary.

[WindRavenX]

61. unfortunatley, it's not that simple

Many parents would not be as understanding as you or even wanting to help their daughter; many parents would kick their daughter out (as it has happened to my friend back in OR) or in cases of incest, the father would prevent the daughter to seek an abortion.

These laws hurt more than help.

[iverglas]

73. and I'd like a pink cadillac

While I would never consider myself to be "conservative", I would like to know if my underaged daughter was going to have an abortion.

You gonna get a law passed to give me one?

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that what you'd like is somehow determinative of how other people get to exercise their rights.

And yes -- young women and girls have reproductive rights.

[ckramer]

97. I agree with you

Democrats should not vote against this bill.

Protecting girls is every parent's duty.

Parents have the right to know.

[fleabert]

109. the young women that can tell their parents, will...

it's the ones that can't that need this overturned. It's not up the government to legislate parental/child relationships and conversations.

foster an open, loving, and supportive relationship with your daughter, and she will come to you when she needs support, you don't need a law to make that happen.

I speak from experience.

edited to add: help fight to keep abortion safe, legal and accessible in every single state, in every city and town, and there won't be a reason for any person to cross state lines to make their own health choices.

[Yupster]

110. Foster an open and loving relationship

with your daughter and she will come to you.

Or maybe she won't.

She's a kid afterall, and kids don't always make the best decisions.

[fleabert]

112. they will.

when kids are scared, they go to the people who make them feel safe.

again, I speak from experience.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LiberalHeart]

20. The bill passed the Senate today (Tuesday)

[illumn8d]

21. Isn't taking someone else's child across state lines already kidnapping?

Isn't this already illegal?

[leftchick]

22. Senate passes interstate abortion bill

WASHINGTON - A bill that would make it a crime to take a pregnant girl across state lines for an abortion without her parents' knowledge passed the Senate Tuesday, but vast differences with the House version stood between the measure and President Bush's desk.

The 65-34 vote gave the Senate's approval to the bill, which would make taking a pregnant girl to another state for the purposes of evading parental notification laws punishable by fines and up to a year in jail.

The girl and her parents would be exempt from prosecution, and the bill contains an exception for abortions performed in this manner that posed a threat to the mother's life.

Struggling to defend their majority this election year, Republican sponsors said the bill supports what a majority of the public believes: that a parent's right to know takes precedence over a young woman's right to have an abortion.

"No parent wants anyone to take their children across state lines or even across the street without their permission," said Senate Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, R-Ky. "This is a fundamental right, and the Congress is right to uphold it in law."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060725/ap_on_go_co/interstate_abortion

[DanCa]

23. It's going to get much worse unless we stay united in November.

I am sick of the GOP it's unreal.

[rodeodance]

29. oh gawd. another MANDATE?--I can not bear it now!

[DanCa]

32. LOL at least you don't have brain surgery awaitting the outcome.

Some of us don't have the luxury of time :hug:

[Monkeyman]

24. They are going to push their aganda until Nov

They want their no mind base out

[DanCa]

27. Hmm it kind of puts wire tapping in a new light doesn't it?

Whose that knocking on your door? It's the morality police.

[texastoast]

25. Fascist pigs

Girls: stand up against these monsters. Send money. Get in the streets. Do not take this.

:grr:

[DanCa]

26. This is what they want to do with stem cell treatment.

They want to make it a crime for me to recieve the therapy that I need to live a normal life if I leave the country and pursue it there.
This really shoots down the argument for private research only doesn't it?
Thank you so much Prolifers and Ralph Nader.

[rodeodance]

31. Abstinence is the best way to prevent teenage pregnancy, responded Sen. To

//////Another, sponsored by Sen. Frank Lautenberg (news, bio, voting record), D-N.J., would have encouraged the federal government to provide money for more sex education. That bill failed earlier in the day, 48-51.

"If we do nothing about teen pregnancy yet pass this punitive bill, then it proves that this (bill) is only a political charade and not a serious effort to combat the problem," Lautenberg said.

Abstinence is the best way to prevent teenage pregnancy, responded Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla.

"How many people really think it's in the best interest of young people to be sexually active outside of marriage? Does anything positive ever come from that?" Coburn asked.

The bills are S. 403 and H.R. 748.

___

On the Net:

Congress: http://thomas.loc.gov

[Megahurtz]

67. Yeah! "Abstinence" does a lotta good in Rape Situations

doesn't it???:freak:Duuuhhhh!:dunce:

What a fucking joke!
These Repukes live in a fucking fantasy bubble!:argh:

[rodeodance]

30. ..Bush applauded the Senate action-----

[KamaAina]

34. I hereby christen it the "Unwed Teen Motherhood Act of 2006"

time for a little truth in advertising up there, dont'cha think?

Also: What if the nearest clinic happens to be in a neighboring state? Think Mississippi, where only ONE clinic is left, in Jackson (the one being besieged by Schiavo-like nutcases), leaving Memphis, TN MUCH closer to northern Miss.

[Captain Hilts]

64. How 'bout the "Punitive Pregnancy Act of 2006." nt

[saigon68]

96. Its the old---"LeRoy is my Baby Daddy Act of 2006".

LOL

[kestrel91316]

35. Fine. Drive the young woman to the state line. Let her our of the car.

She WALKS across the state line on her own two legs. Another driver is waiting on the other side and takes her to her destination. End of problem.

Or how about this. Drive her across the state line to a gas station. She buys a coke and says thanks and goodbye. Next driver, waiting at the gas station, takes her to her destination. She was taken to buy a coke, and then decided to hitchhike somewhere. End of problem.

They will NEVER be able to stop us from traveling.

[HockeyMom]

38. Abusive home life and on my own at 17 - No what ifs

I was your so called Emancipated Minor. I had already graduated HS (early), got a full time job, my own apartment (sublet alone), enrolled in college at night (free tuition from work), had my own medical insurance, paid all my own bills, etc., etc. Notify my parents? Have to haul myself before a judge to PROVE my competency? Absurd.

When I was under 17? That would have been a living nightmare. You see, my Dad was an abusive alcoholic. My Mom was the enabler. When I was 10, Dad went on a drunken rampage, busted up the apartment, threw Mom against the wall, and tried to strangle her. When Mom started turning blue, I stopped crying, picked up a kitchen knife and put it to his back, telling him to stop, or I would kill him. Back in the 1950s it was all kept behind closed doors. As a teenager, I was also a target of his rage. Have to notify my parents for an abortion? I might as well have commited suicide. The end result would have been the same.

Although, I will give you this. Because of all of the above, having to get an abortion as a teenager would have been moot since I never even dated in HS. All I wanted was to get out of my parents home and make a life for myself. Having a boyfriend and having sex would only have complicated my plans in my teenage mind's eye. Does that sound cold and calculating? It was the only way to survive and keep sane.

Well, that is my story. Now, to now all you parents who favor this law, go home, hug your daughters, tell them you love them, talk, and LISTEN to them. If you do this from the time they are babies, you won't NEED this potentially cruel, and unnecesary, law. Trust me, they WILL talk to you.

From the lucky mother of 2 wonderful, adult daughters

[GoddessOfGuinness]

40. Thank you.

It couldn't be better said.

[Megahurtz]

83. Lol! There are ALWAYS ways!

;)

[MisterP]

36. full list:

http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00216
Bayh, Byrd, Carper, Conrad, Dorgan, Inouye (who should know better), Johnson, Kohl, Landrieu, Nelson 1, Nelson 2, Pryor, Reid, & Salazar

[GoddessOfGuinness]

39. I'm so glad both my senators voted nay.

I'll be calling them tomorrow to thank them.

[PassingFair]

37. Beautiful, we're naming our first grandchild DRED SCOTT.

Will the boys and girls who drive their loved ones
be put in JAIL?

[Cerridwen]

49. 1 - how do they know she's pregnant?

2 - how do they discover she had an abortion?
3 - one teen girl/boy helps pregnant teen girlfriend to get an abortion by driving them across or going with them as they drive across state lines. teen girl or boy is now a felon for helping a scared friend?
4 - a group of friends crosses state line to party/attend concert/hang out/whatever for the weekend/spring break/whatever. while there, pregnant girl, unknown to most of the group, gets abortion. entire group is now guilty of felony?

Will all girls and women now be required to take pregnancy tests to travel in the U.S. since they're trying to make it illegal for any female to cross state borders for abortion?

And I thought taking my shoes off at the airport was stupid.

[One_Life_To_Give]

50. Already a Felony

Taking a minor across state lines without the parents permission is kidnapping. So what is the point of adding another felony on top of it, other than stirring up the base.

[Odin2005]

62. Exactly, this is simple pandering.

[Megahurtz]

65. Pandering to Parents.

Do you see how many DUers chime right in? These are parents that don't know
how detrimental a ruling like this would be to abused underage girls.

Look at all the parents who are falling for this one!

The truth is that if you have a good, honest and open relationship with your kids,
you never have to worry about them not telling you anything.

[Yupster]

72. That's just BS

Even the best kids with the best parents withhold things from their parents that they don't want them to know. Any parent who thinks their 14 year old tells them just everything is naive.

[Beaverhausen]

74. read post #38

and if you are a good parent, your child will come to you if she is in trouble.

Something like 80% of teens who have abortions do tell their parents. The rest have a very good reason not to. Don't assume that all family relationships are like yours.

[Yupster]

91. "The rest have a very good reason not to,"

Yeah because we all know that 14 year olds exercise the very highest level of clear thinking and fine judgement, especially when they're in crisis situations.

Listen to yourself.

[Beaverhausen]

93. Face reality please

I'm not sure what planet you live on, but here on earth there are abusive parents and sometimes a 14 year old will do better to get help from another adult that is not their parent.

[Yupster]

99. That's why I think there should always be a judicial bypass

in any law, but that should be for the rare exception.

The vast majority of parents have the very best interests of their children at heart and they should be made aware of where their minor children are and what they are doing. I am firmly convinced that in the vast majority of cases, the person who cares most for a minor child is that child's parents.

[HockeyMom]

108. Thank you. That is exactly what I did

No, I couldn't talk to my parents, but I was very fortunate that I had my Grandma who I could talk to. She was my confidante. Actually, even more than any of my peers. I did not want them know about my family situation.

Senator Kennedy is right on. Children need the guidance of parents. If they are not "available" for whatever reason, a close family member, clergy, teacher, etc., needs to fill in. "It Takes a Village", to quote Hillary. I totally understand what she meant by that. It certainly cannot be the Federal Government.

Parents, please try to consider this. Step out of your shoes as a parent. Read between the LINES. This is about an AGENDA, NOT parental rights. It's a wolf dressed up in sheeps clothing.

Think about it.

[Megahurtz]

103. Sounds like you don't trust your kids.

Why should they trust you?

[Odin2005]

88. Good point, We must rember we are talking about YOUNG ADULTS.

I personally find it abhorent that a 17 year old has the same legal staus as a 7 year old with respect to thier parents, even though that 17 year old is an adult for all intents and purposes. Parents need to quit thinking of thier young adult children in terms of them being kids.

[columbusdem]

81. Gee, this reminds me of something...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_Slave_Law_of_1850

[babydollhead]

105. what about this?

what about that each state provides legal, safe, health care to it's populace? What about if kids were given safe places to talk to unbiased, caring adults for guidance?

[Yupster]

111. Maybe they could guide and counsel the kids

We could call them guidance counselors.

Nah, never happen.

[ismnotwasm]

115. Goes hand in hand with South Dakota

And other states trying to ban abortion. I shudder to think of the teenage girls that are uncomfortable talking to their parents, who have access to on-line self abortion advice. Lots of it. Some of it deadly, all of it dangerous.

I'm not trying to take anything away from parents here, but not everyone has an open and honest relationship, and sometimes it doesn't matter if they do. Kids get scared-- do dumb, dangerous things.

"Back alley" abortions here we come. Particularly in the states that will outlaw abortion.

Whatever our differing opinions on this issue, I hope we can come together to continue the fight to keep abortion legal and safe. Otherwise the potential outcomes of this law are very frightening to contemplate.