Nasrallah: Israel wants cease-fire, U.S. opposed

[sabra]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744031.html

Nasrallah: Israel wants cease-fire, U.S. opposed

In a televised speech Saturday evening, Hezbollah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah vowed rocket strikes on towns in central Israel.

"The bombardment of Afula and its military base is the beginning ... Many
cities in the center (of Israel) will be targeted in the 'beyond Haifa' phase if the savage aggression continues on our country, people and villages," Nasrallah said in a speech aired on Hezbollah's Al-Manar television.

"The Israelis are ready to halt the aggression because they are afraid of the unknown. The one pushing for the continuation of the aggression is the U.S. administration. Israel has been exposed as a slave of the U.S.," he said.

"There are developments on the diplomatic front, and attempts to end the crisis, thanks to our strong position. The enemy attained no military achievements. They admit this," Nasrallah said, claiming that Israel suffered a "serious defeat" in ground fighting around Bint Jbial.
Nasrallah said U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice aimed to impose conditions on Lebanon and to serve Israeli interests during her diplomatic mission to the region.

"Now Ms. Rice is returning to the region to try and impose her conditions again on Lebanon to serve her project, the new Middle East and to serve Israel," he said.

[saigon68]

1. The Princess of Death appears again in her Large Leather Boots

[HereSince1628]

2. I lean toward the notion it's a long planned for proxy war.

Now why would I suspect my government? Because of the close ties between the Pentagon's OSP and Israeli intelligence agents as well as the similarties between the Likud and the NeoCons, just that, maybe.

[drduffy]

56. You mean there was some doubt about this???

[DoYouEverWonder]

3. Israel pulls out of Hezbollah stronghold

July 29, 2006

TYRE, Lebanon - Israeli troops pulled back from a key Lebanese border town Saturday where it battled Hezbollah for a week, claiming to have finished its mission after the bloodiest ground fight of the 18-day war. Israeli warplanes blasted bridges and demolished houses in southern Lebanon, killing seven people, including a woman and her five children.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060729/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel;_ylt=A86.I1Z7tMtEhS8Aghas0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

I don't think this little war is going all that well for Israel. Maybe they'll wake up and realize the PNAC agenda is not in their best interest?

[Zhade]

7. Driven out again?

Wouldn't surprise me - murdering civilians to get at Hezbollah doesn't really bolster support for Israel's position, you know?

[DoYouEverWonder]

11. Sure looks like that at the moment

It's one of the weaknesses of the US and Israel, they don't like to lose soldiers.

[bemildred]

14. That is the problem with delusions of grandeur.

Any little scratch diminishes you.

[MsMagnificent]

46. Yet they certainly did it with gusto for weeks...

It doesn't make sense.

[Henny Penny]

33. Lets hope they wake up soon...

If they're not careful they could end up in a worse position than they are now.

"Lebanon's Prime Minister Fouad Siniora has said that if Israel wants secure borders it must withdraw from the disputed Shebaa Farms area that it has occupied since 1967."

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/B99073EF-D5EA-4F81-BCFC-6755FF28BF92.htm

[MsMagnificent]

47. I'm surprised not mentioned

are Mt. Dov & Rajar, among others.

[mom cat]

4. Three articles dealing with peace and the blocking of peace::

tocqueville (1000+ posts)
Sat Jul-29-06 01:14 AM
Original message
Breaking : Hezbollah accepts "EUs peace plan"

Hezbollah politicians back peace package By SAM F. GHATTAS, Associated Press Writer
8 minutes ago
...................................

It starts out with an immediate cease-fire. Following that would come:

• the release of Lebanese and Israeli prisoners; Israeli withdrawal behind the border; the return of Lebanese displaced by the fighting.

• moves to resolve the status of Chebaa Farms, a small piece of land held by Israel and claimed by Lebanon. The proposal calls for the U.N. Security Council to commit to putting the area under U.N. control until a final demarcation of the border.

• the provision by Israel of maps of minefields laid during its 18-year occupation of the south.

• "the spreading of Lebanese government authority over the entire country," meaning the deployment of the Lebanese army in the south, with the strengthening and increasing of the small, lightly armed U.N. peacekeeping force currently there.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060729/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_peace_package_4





And this piece:

Shin Bet Vetoed Secret Israeli-Palestinian Peace Agreement
Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:49:07 -0700reprehensor
R195926
2 hours ago PRESS RELEASE
Drafted by Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed, Department of International Relations, University of Sussex
For immediate release 28.7.06

SHIN BET VETOED SECRET ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN PEACE AGREEMENT

Israeli and Palestinian Sources Concur: Israel Made War Inevitable
The Omega Institute (OI), which works closely with the Institute for Policy Research for Development (IPRD), has learned from Israeli and Palestinian sources that just prior to the current crisis, senior Hamas leaders were in active dialogue with Israeli religious leaders in a round of bilateral peace negotiations. Israeli negotiators included Rabbi Menachem Froman, former deputy leader and co-founder of the Israeli Settler movement Gush Khatif; Rabbi David Bigman, head of the liberal religious Kibbutz movement Yeshiva at Ma’ale Gilboa; and Yitzhak Frankenthal, founder of the Arik Institute. Ongoing negotiations had resulted in a breakthrough peace “understanding”, which was to be announced at a press conference in Jerusalem to mark the launching of an extraordinary peace initiative. Israeli Prime Minister Olmert had been briefed extensively about the initiative by Frankenthal. Also due to attend the conference were Khaled Abu Arafa, the Palestinian Cabinet Minister for Jerusalem, Sheikh Muhamed Abu Tir, senior Hamas Member of the Palestinian Parliament, and other senior Palestinian delegates.
The meeting was to announce a joint Israeli-Palestinian call for the release of Corporal Gilad Shalit who had been abducted by Hamas in Gaza, along with proposals for the beginning of the release of all Palestinian prisoners. These measures were to precipitate unprecedented new peace negotiations on a framework peace agreement, drawn on the 1967 borders. The presence of Palestinian Cabinet Officers and senior Israeli religious leaders in contact with the Prime Minster was to underline the seriousness of this peace proposal on both sides.
Just hours before the meeting was due to start, the Israeli Shin Bet internal Security Service arrested Abu Tir and Abu Arafa and warned them not to attend the meeting, under threats of detention. The meeting, which offered a major opportunity to obtain Shalit’s release and launch a new framework for peace, was thrown into disarray. The next day, the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) invaded Gaza, and the day after both Abu Tir and Abu Arafa were abducted by Israeli forces, along with a third of the Palestinian Cabinet, provoking a predictable escalation of violence.
Israel simultaneously began conducting covert incursions on to Lebanese territory, provoking Hizbollah’s capture of two IDF soldiers. Credible sources confirm that the soldiers were not abducted on Israeli territory, but inside Lebanon. Like the scuppered peace negotiations, Western officials have ignored this, and misinformed the media. However, some reports corroborate the sources. Israeli officials, for instance, informed Forbes (12.7.06) that “Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon, prompting a swift reaction from Israel.”
“The revelations show that Palestinian and Lebanese actors were not principally responsible for the escalation of the current conflict”, said OI Director Graham Ennis. “Contrary to the misinformation disseminated by the Whitehouse and Whitehall, Israel vetoed unprecedented peace proposals that would have initiated a promising new framework for serious negotiations, and went on to provoke Palestinian and Lebanese groups into retaliations, that now threaten to escalate into a dangerous regional conflict.”
For more information please contact
[phone] UK number, US callers; omit the zero (0)
or email: [e-mail]



more at:
http://www.gnn.tv/threads/18031/Shin_Bet_Vetoed_Secret_Israeli_Palestinian_Peace_Agreement

.
Alsp. see this article about Cheney’s role:
Cheney Unleashes The Dogs of War
Vice President Cheney has ignited a new Middle East war that threatens to spread from Israel & Lebanon, to Syria & Iran

by Dean Andromidas

July 19, 2006
Executive Intelligence Review.

Email this article to a friend
Print this article


Vice President Dick Cheney has ignited a new Middle East war that threatens to spread from Israel and Lebanon, to Syria and Iran. As EIR recently exposed, (EIR June 30, "Cheney and Netanyahu Conspiring for War"), this latest war was planned at a secret meeting between Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Likud chairman Benjamin Netanyahu, during a conference organized by the American Enterprise Institute in June at Beaver Creek, Colorado.
This war is not intended to make Israel safe from Hamas, Hezbollah terrorism, or Iran's alleged intentions to build nuclear weapons, but is rather a drive by the synarchist financial forces represented by the likes of George Shultz and Felix Rohatyn, who stand behind Cheney and Netanyahu. Their aim is to escalate a global clash of civilizations, to maintain their political and financial hegemony, as their own global financial system crumbles.
Israel is their chosen instrument to launch a war against Syria and Iran, now that U.S. military forces are bogged down in Cheney's insane Iraq war. Their war plan is well known to readers of EIR, and is the policy the Bush Administration has been implementing, with disastrous results, for the last three years. This is based on the notorious policy paper, "A Clean Break: New Strategy for Securing the Realm," which was presented to Netanyahu when he became Israeli Prime Minister in 1996. Its authors included the "Prince of Darkness" Richard Perle, former Defense Department official Douglas Feith, and neo-conservative fanatics such as David and Meyrav Wurmser. That document called for a "clean break from the slogan 'comprehensive peace' to a traditional balance of power." They called for Israel to "seize the initiative along its northern border," against Hezbollah, Syria, and Iran, including "striking at select targets in Syria proper" (emphasis in the original).
Hezbollah is a Lebanese umbrella organization of Islamic Shi'ite groups, and the Shi'ites are the largest religious bloc in Lebanon.

More at:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1721346

[Drum]

6. Thanks mom cat! nt

[ShockediSay]

16. It was reported earlier this month Hamas offered a truce Israel rejected

http://news.google.com/news?as_q=Palestinian+Truce&svnum=10&as_scoring=r&hl=en&ned=us&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nsrc=&as_nloc=&as_occt=any&as_drrb=q&as_qdr=m&as_mind=29&as_minm=6&as_maxd=29&as_maxm=7

[mom cat]

28. It is clear who is fighting against peace now: Dick Cheney.

[harun]

41. When you look at all the evidence this actually makes

much more sense than anything else. Look at what Bush said at the news conference with Blair where the mic was left on. He didn't have a clue what was actually going on over there. A number of columnists pointed this out and speculated that Bush was probably not told about what the plan was. From Juan Cole:

That is why I was so shaken by George W. Bush's overheard conversation with Tony Blair about the war. He clearly thought that it broke out because Syria used Hizbullah to create a provocation. The President of the United States did not know that this war was a long-planned Israeli war of choice.

http://www.juancole.com/2006/07/war-on-lebanon-planned-for-at-least.html

The real question for me is what all is in this plan? That this plan would be initiated and only consist of Hizb'Allah being bombed for a couple of weeks is silly. There has to be plans to get involved with Syria and Iran some way. Here is my theory of the plan:

* Israelis in the North engage Hizb'Allah. Hizb'Allah actually capturing two soldiers was likely not according to plan. (Looks like they were likely in Lebanon but this is still disputed, I don't really care where they were for the sake of this plan)

* Israel claims self defense actions are to be taken against Hizb'Allah

* (Because of abduction Israel tried to quickly get into Lebanon to get the soldier back, didn't go so well when their tank got blew up and their soldiers killed. This really pissed them off and was not part of the plan, they didn't care plan went to next step)

* Israel starts going through the steps of its war plan which were vintage U.S. tactics over the last 50 years. Hit air defences, hit airports, blow up targets from the air, starve out defense, put all this on TV to show how awesome it all is, etc.)

* Israel moves to next step which is suppose to be strolling on into Lebanon after the shock and awe campaign

(OOOOPS Hizb'Allah has been preparing for 20 years for this scenario, whole of south is booby trapped, they have awesome anti-tank missiles (which have taken out to my knowledge at least three tanks already, etc))

* By this time Syria and Iran are suppose to be stepping in to protect Hizb'Allah from defeat thus finally delivering Cheney and Co. his dream scenario, however Hizb'Allah is holding its own quite easily and doesn't need Irans and Syrias help (yet)

Next part of the plan must get Iran and Syria into the mix, look for Israel and the U.S. to get them in there someway and to claim self defense in the process.

Problem is Syria and Iran have been preparing for this scenario for 20 years as well. Israel is going to get seriously bitch slapped and probably destroyed in this phase. Too bad Israel and the U.S. are currently run by mad men, I don't want to see the human suffering that is going to occur now on either side while the madmen play world conquest games from their air conditioned offices.

[Judi Lynn]

52. Thanks for the post!

Welcome to D.U. :hi: :hi: :hi:

[MADem]

5. Nasrallah is SUCH A bullshit artist!!!!!

"We are keen to cooperate with the government," Nasrallah said. But "for Lebanon to win the battle, it needs political will no less than the will of the resistance fighters in the field ... The government is required to act in a way that reflects the Lebanese people's steadfastness and unity," he said.

"We have a historic opportunity in Lebanon to liberate every inch of our land, regain of our prisoners and guarantee our national sovereignty, so that our skies, water, land and our people are no longer subject to Zionist violation and aggression," he said.

The Lebanese people did NOT ask for this mess--the Iranians did. What the Lebanese people would like is to turn back the clock a few weeks before those Hizb'allah assholes, directed by Revolutionary Guard leaders in the field, went across the border and killed those eight guys and captured the other two.

There are plenty of assholes in this entire endeavor, but Nasrallah is one of the biggest. And the blood is on his hands.

[BillZBubb]

8. Well, you give him a run for his money then!

"The Lebanese people did NOT ask for this mess--the Iranians did." That's a lie. The Israeli's asked for this mess by escalating it beyond reason.

Some blood is on Hezbollah's hands no doubt, but the vast amount of blood is on the hands of Israel. Israel has become a terror state.

[MADem]

13. We are just going to have to disagree vehemently here

We can skip all the back and forth, because no convincing from either side will happen at the end of the tirades.

You think Israel is wrong for wanting to eradicate those bastards once and for all, you don't blame Hiz'b'Allah for hiding behind women and children and launching their attacks from residential neighborhoods, and you think the Israelis should just take it while rockets rain down on towns north of Tel Aviv with alarming frequency. You think, apparently, that murdering eight soldiers and capturing two is not sufficient provocation on top of everything else.

I know where Nasrallah gets his cash, his direction and his military supervisory leadership. I follow the money. The Yellow Brick Road ends in Teheran at a council of meanass Ayatullahs.

But, you clearly don't agree, so, go ahead, make some sharp, snarky reply and let's be done with it.

Hearts and minds will not be changed, either way.

[funnymanpants]

21. This is not fair or logical

Israel does not have a right to destroy an entire country just to get vengence for the death of 3 soldiers and the kidnapping of 2 more. (The others were killed when a tank entered Lebonon proper.)

The UN and Human Rights Watch have already termed Israel's response war crimes. Israel has targeted Civilian infrastracture and civlians themselves. A confidant to Olmert has stated that it is okay to flatten villages in S. Lebanon because it told everyone to leave. Such destruction is collective punishment and is a war crime.

And as the *Washington Post* reported, the goal of Israel is to inflict damage on the entire population of Lebanon to get the population to turn agains Hezbollah. This is also collective punishment, a war crime.

As far at the "bastards" go, I think one could say the same about the IDF's treatment of the Palestinians. The IDF regularly kidnaps Palestinians, and in fact you could argue Israel strated this round of kidnapping when it kidnapped a doctor and his brother on June 24, a day before Hamas kidnapped an Israeli soldier. Every human rights group that has looked at Israel's behaviour has condemned it for "deliberate killing" and "torture."

Using your logic, it would be just to bomb the hell out of Israel to get rid of the bastards once and for all.

Or using your logic, it would be just to bomb the hell of a state like North Carolina because the citizens support the military actions of Bush.

The bombing of Israel has simply strenthened Hezbollah, which can only be defeated politically.

I happen to believe in internation law and human rights, which means you can't start killing civilians to achieve your goal. That goes for Hezbollah, and it goes for Israel as well.

[MADem]

26. So why does it matter if they took a break before murdering the remainder?

All the aggression started with them. You cannot mitigate that fact. What, should the Isralis not have intiated hot pursuit after two of their own were taken? Should they have stopped at the border and waved "So long?" as Hizb'Allah spirited their comrades away?

Let's flip your argument. How about Hizb'Allah does not have a right to destroy an entire country just to achieve their stated goal of killing all the Jews and throwing their corpses into the sea, establishing a greater Shi'a theocratic state, and gaining control of the Holy city of Jerusalem?

We can play the "two wrongs don't make a right" all we want, here. You say you believe in international law, but I see no anger towards the militants--just a blanket "They shouldn't do it either" statement. But if they didn't conduct their aggression from neighborhoods, they wouldn't be targeted.

And just as you berate Israel for responding to these attacks, you need to reserve just a little more ire for a bunch of Iranian-funded and Revolutionary Guard-commanded thugs who HIDE behind women and children, who launch their missiles and rockets from residential areas, and then cry about the deaths (while chuckling gleefully behind their hands).

Also, the Palestinian issue is separate from this one, much as Nasrallah wants to combine the two, to tweak the heartstrings of folks who feel the Filistine pain. Palestine is a real estate/two governments in a single nation problem; this is a renegade militia operating inside a border nation and attacking the Israelis with a stated goal of genocide against all Jews.

I've discussed this ad infinitum elsewhere. You aren't changing your view, and I am not changing mine. I take issue with Israel re: Palestine, but on this Hizb'Allah matter, they are fighting for their very survival.

[funnymanpants]

29. What are you talking about?

Hezbollah is not destroying Lebanon except in some Orwellian sense Israel is. If you are claiming that Hezbollah is destroying Israel, your argument is simply silly. Are all the bridges in Israel destroyed? Is the airport destroyed? Are factories blown to pieces? It is simply not factual what you are saying.

No, all the aggression didn't start with them. It started with Israel kidnapping on June 24.

Hezbollah certainly is firing from residential neighborhoods, though I haven't seen any proof that the only way they fight, and in fact a Salon article hotly contends this issue. However, this doesn't change the fact that Israel is targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure. This is a war crime. By your posts, I see you are actually advocating war crimes.

No, the Palestinian issue is not separate. It is central to the issue.

You still haven't answered my question: if Israel's actions are justified to destroy the "bastards," is it justified to destroy Israel for their "deliberate killing" and "torture?" Is it justified to bomb North Carolina for Bush's aggression in Iraq?

As I stated before, Israel has the 4th largest army in the world. Hezbollah is certainly not a threat. Israel only lost 5 soldiers in the initial attack. The US lost something like 300 Marines when Hezbollah attacked the base in Lebanon. Did the US suddenly cease to exist?

[MADem]

35. OK, let me explain this to you

I PROVOKE YOU. I steal something from you. I start tossing things at you. When you go to hit back at me, I duck behind Grandma and you end up hitting her. That's what Hizb'Allah is doing. They are destroying Lebanon with their actions, and then pointing the finger at Israel for events that THEY provoked.

You want to blame Israel for something Hizb'allah provoked. Sorry, I cannot go along with that.

And please, despite your desperate protestations, when you confuse the Israeli dispute with PALESTINE with the Israeli response to Hizb'Allah, you are falling into their game. ALL ARABS do NOT think with ONE mind. They are not the same, and it is naive (I won't say racist, because I do not think that was your intent) to think they are. That's like saying that Peruvians are the same as Brazilians because they live in the same hemispheric quadrant. Culturally, there is a huge divide.

Saying that Hizb'allah actually gives a GENUINE crap about a bunch of "Sunni heretics" (beyond using them for propaganda, which works with uninformed westerners) is like suggesting that all white people support each other unconditionally, no matter what--like Hitler is the same as Mother Theresa. There is a convergence that exists between the two entities now, for this moment, but believe me, it is VERY TEMPORARY, and both sides are using it to get their agenda up on the world stage for all to see. There is no philosophical or theological agreement between shi'as and sunnis, beyond getting rid of whitey, (in this case, Israel and the West) frankly.

Listen, if Hizb'allah got their way, and all the Jews were gone, they'd be pushing the Sunnis into the sea next. Iran wants it ALL.

We aren't going to agree on this, and your bringing in absurd constructs like bombing North Carolina just throw turd dust over the entire discussion, to no effect. That is not going to happen, it is silly to suggest it, and it weakens any hope of real debate.

You go on, believe what you want. Believe that Hizb'Allah is not a threat. I got away from their predecessors, the Pasaradan, in Iran, and I think differently.

As for your last comment, it was 241 USMC PEACEKEEPERS, for what it is worth, and the US LEFT LEBANON after that event. We ran away. What can Israel do...pick up their country and move it into the Med???? They can't leave.

We're not going to see eye to eye here, so go ahead, have the last word. I'm not changing my mind. I've seen what those guys can do, and how they enforce their theological rules and regulations, and it ain't pretty.

[Recursion]

43. Targeting infrastructure is not a war crime

Where did that meme start? It's not a war crime to destroy bridges, or airports, or power grids. Just about the only infrastructure that is protected is hospitals, houses of worship not being used as bases or supply depots, and ICR personnel and buildings. Fully civilian residential districts are protected, but it's almost impossible in a realistic situation to find a residential area without dual-use (and therefore legal) targets.

[Recursion]

39. Fair enough

Now come up with a solution for Israel to get Hezbollah to stop attacking it.

Waiting...

[bvar22]

40. WOW. Where does Israel get its money?

Follow THAT cash.
BOTH are proxies.

[MADem]

45. Yes, and Iran's proxy got this particular party started.

The better to switch the discussion from "Iran's nuclear program" to "those awful Jews in Palestine."

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zhade]

9. "the Iranians did" - got any proof of that?

Otherwise, that statement is just speculation.

And there are reports that the IDF may have actually been inside Lebanon when the soldiers were kidnapped - maybe not, but Israel has violated others' borders before.

[MADem]

18. Why yes, I do

I don't speculate. Anyone who has kept up with them over the years, since they killed 241 USMC peacekeepers back in the eighties, knows full well where their funding stream originates. Anyone who is not plainly aware of this basic fact is operating from a substantial paucity of knowlege that affects credibility in the debate.

Here, from a variety of sources, both for that terrorist crew and against, read:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/07/02/INGIJJM87B1.DTL
Iran uses Shiite bonds to position itself in Lebanon
Hezbollah uses Iranian funds to build militia and provide services to needy


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/18/60minutes/main550000.shtml

Hezbollah: "A-Team Of Terrorists"

Sen. Bob Graham, the Florida democrat who chaired the Senate Intelligence Committee in the last Congress, and is now running for president, says the Bush Administration should be more concerned with Hezbollah than they are with Saddam Hussein. ... “They are a violent terrorist group. And they have demonstrated throughout their now 25-year history a hatred of the United States and a willingness to kill our people.”
...So if Iran wants them to have weapons of mass destruction, will they have it? Graham believes they will, and in large quantities, too. ...Iran isn't the only country that supports Hezbollah. Syria allows Hezbollah to train fighters in remote camps in Syria and territory under its control in Lebanon. ...

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=50185
Iran is one of the two major patrons of Hezbollah, the Lebanese guerrilla group that Israel blames for starting the current fighting by crossing its border on July 12 and kidnapping two Israeli soldiers. The other patron is Syria, an Iranian ally. The kidnapping prompted intense Israeli bombing of Lebanon.

http://www.570news.com/news/international/article.jsp?content=w072835A

Araghchi said it was unclear if Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would attend the summit next week. "Obviously Iran will take part on the highest level possible," he said.

Iran and Syria are major patrons of Hezbollah, the Lebanese guerrilla group whose July 12 capture of two Israeli soldiers provoked Israel's onslaught.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/27EDF072-1581-48CE-812D-A34D7C89A333.htm
Hezbollah was founded in the early 1980s by Lebanese Shia who wanted to fight the Israeli army, which since 1982 had occupied a large area of southern Lebanon.

The movement grew quickly after receiving Syrian and Iranian logistical, financial and military support. Its members carried out numerous suicide attacks against Israeli targets inside Lebanon.


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/hizballah.htm

Formed in 1982 in response to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, this Lebanon-based radical Shia group takes its ideological inspiration from the Iranian revolution and the teachings of the late Ayatollah Khomeini. The Majlis al-Shura, or Consultative Council, is the group’s highest governing body and is led by Secretary General Hasan Nasrallah. Hizballah is dedicated to liberating Jerusalem and eliminating Israel, and has formally advocated ultimate establishment of Islamic rule in Lebanon. Nonetheless, Hizballah has actively participated in Lebanon’s political system since 1992. This radical Shia is dedicated to creation of Iranian-style Islamic republic in Lebanon and removal of all non-Islamic influences from area. It is strongly anti-Western and anti-Israeli.

A very important factor that developed Hizballah was the establishment of the Islamic Revolution in Iran that was led by the Imam Khomeini. This revolution consolidated new concepts in the field of Islamic thought mainly the concept of Willayat Al-Faqih. The revolution also generalized Islamic expressions against the west such as arrogance, the great Satan, hypocrites and the oppressed. Due to that it was only normal for the ideological doctrine in Iran to take root in Lebanon. This tie was very quickly translated on the ground by direct support from the Islamic Republic of Iran through its revolutionary guards and then to Hizballah that was resisting the Israeli occupation. This religious and ideological tie between Hizballah and Iran following the revolution with its stance towards the Zionist entity had a great effect on releasing vital material and moral support to Hizballah. Hizballah’s ideological ideals sees no legitimacy for the existence of Israel, a matter that elevates the contradictions to the level of existence. And the conflict becomes one of legitimacy that is based on religious ideals. The seed of resistance is also deep in the ideological beliefs of Hizballah, a belief that found its way for expression against the occupation of Lebanon.

...United Nations Security Council Resolution 1559 (02 September 2004) called for the "disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias". The Government of Lebanon is responsible for the disbanding and disarming of the militias, including Hizballah, and preventing the flow of armaments and other military equipment to the militias, including Hizballah, from Syria, Iran, and other external sources. Lebanon basically rejected Resolution 1559, and by early 2005 this presented the risk of Israeli retaliation against vital Lebanese infrastructure to force action to disarm Hizballah...In a written report to the Security Council 18 April 2006, Secretary-General Kofi Annan called on Syria and Iran to stop interfering in Lebanon. The report, which was written by the secretary-general's special envoy Terje Roed-Larsen, said that Hizballah, the Lebanese militant group, "maintains close ties, with frequent contacts and regular communication" with Syria and Iran.

[funnymanpants]

19. You didn't answer the question

Do you have proof that Iran directed this attack?

There is none, so you are just speculating.

[MADem]

36. How did they get their Iranian rockets? Where did they get their training

and equipment?

You tell me, are countries in the habit of outfitting and arming militias ABSENT dictating their agenda?? Do you think, getting a hundred million bucks-plus a year from Iran, that they are going to do anything OTHER than take orders from them? You really think that Iran did all that out of the goodness of their hearts, with no care or concern as to how they conduct themselves? You haven't noticed that since everyone is talking about Israel, NO ONE is talking about the Iranian nuclear imbroglio?

So sorry I didn't tap the Ayatullahs' phone lines and give you a precise transcript. You're being astoundingly naive if you think this is not the case. Follow the money. Use elementary logic. Or failing that, let's have a look at the Shi'a News:
http://www.azadarnews.com/Shia-News/856.html Hizbollah Leader in Syria for talks with allies


The newspaper said that the meeting was designed to discuss ways to maintain supplies to Hezbollah fighters with "Iranian arms flowing through Syrian territories."

According to the newspaper, Nasrallah was moving through Damascus with Syrian guards in an intelligence agency car. He was dressed in civilian clothes, not his normal clerical garb.

An Iranian news agency said, Ali Larijani, secretary of Iran's Supreme National Security Council, was in Damascus for meetings on the crisis, but gave no other details. Similar reports were carried by some other news agencies. ...


http://www.azadarnews.com/Shia-News/857.html
Ahmadinejad believes that his strategy to drive the “infidel” out of the Islamic heartland cannot succeed unless Arabs accept Iran’s leadership.

The problem is that since the Iranian regime is Shi’ite it would not be easy to sell it to most Arabs, who are Sunni. To overcome that hurdle, it is necessary to persuade the Arabs that only Iran is sincere in its desire and capacity to wipe Israel off the map. Once that claim is sold to the Arabs, so Ahmadinejad hopes, they would rally behind his vision of the Middle East instead of the “American vision”.

That strategy pushed Israel to the top of Tehran’s agenda. This is why, in May, Tehran became the first country to grant the Hamas government in the occupied territories an emergency grant of £27m to cope with a freeze imposed by European Union aid and other international donations. As moderate Arab countries have distanced themselves from Hamas, Iran along with Syria has stepped in.

The pincer war launched by Hamas and Hezbollah against Israel is also related to domestic politics. In the occupied territories, Hamas needs to marginalise Mahmoud Abbas’s PLO and establish itself as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people. In Lebanon, Hezbollah wants to prevent the consolidation of power in the hands of a new pro-American coalition government led by Fouad Siniora, the prime minister, and Walid Jumblatt, the Druze leader....

http://www.azadarnews.com/Shia-News/75.html

Iran's paramilitary and intelligence buildup in Iraq would put some members of the "coalition of the willing" to shame. Over the past three years, Tehran has deployed to Iraq a large number of the Revolutionary Guard's Qods Force -- a highly professional force specializing in assassinations and bombings -- as well as officers from the Ministry of Intelligence and National Security and representatives of Lebanese Hezbollah.
The Qods Force has a longstanding relationship with Hezbollah, which it trains and supplies in coordination with Syria through an Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps unit in central Lebanon. In the words of Iranian Maj. Gen. Yahya Rahim Safavi, the IRGC commander, "The range of duty is not limited to our land and we have extra-border missions."


And then, there is this: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/ISRAEL_ATTACKED_SHIP?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-07-15-07-28-21

JERUSALEM (AP) -- Elite Iranian troops helped Hezbollah fire a sophisticated radar-guided missile at an Israeli warship, Israeli officials said Saturday, describing an apparent surprise blow by militants who had been using only low-tech weapons.

Iran denied that it had any troops in Lebanon.

Israel initially believed that an aerial drone armed with explosives hit the warship, but it became clear that Hezbollah had used an Iranian-made C-802 missile to strike the vessel late Friday, an Israeli intelligence official said on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the information....Hezbollah is widely believed to have been trained, funded and guided by the Revolutionary Guard since the militant group was founded during Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon. The Islamic republic's elite corps of more than 200,000 fighters is independent of the regular armed forces and directly controlled by Iran's supreme leader.

Be sure to read this companion article, as well: http://www.defensetech.org/archives/002591.html

The missile that hit the Hanit was a C-802, an Iranian-made variant of a stealthy, turbojet-powered, Chinese weapon. It's "considered along with the US 'Harpoon' as among the best anti-ship missiles" in the world, GlobalSecurity.org says.

"Iran began buying dozens of those sophisticated antiship missiles from the Chinese during the 1990’s," the Times notes. "Until Friday, however, Western intelligence services did not know that Iran had managed to ship C-802 missiles to Hezbollah."

Now that the Israelis know, it's influencing their choice of targets to hit. The C-802 was most likely "fired it from a truck-mounted launcher cued by a coastal radar installation," Situational Awareness says. So "Israel has stepped up its attacks against coastal radar sites, as any sort of surface-search set would be able to provide data for the initial launch."




http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1908671.stm
The party was long supported by Iran, which provided it with arms and money.

In its early days, Hezbollah was close to a contingent of some 2000 Iranian Revolutionary guards, based in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley, which had been sent to Lebanon in 1982 to aid the resistance against Israel.

As Hezbollah escalated its guerrilla attacks on Israeli targets in southern Lebanon, its military aid from Iran increased.

A background piece from several years back, which helps to set the stage and tone in the region: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/021014fa_fact4


But within Hezbollah there is little pretense of fealty to the President of Lebanon, Émile Lahoud, who is a Christian, and certainly none to the Prime Minister, Rafiq Hariri, who is a Sunni Muslim. The only portraits one sees in Hezbollah offices are of Khomeini and of Ayatollah Khamenei, the current ruler of Iran.

Hezbollah has an annual budget of more than a hundred million dollars, which is supplied by the Iranian government directly and by a complex system of finance cells scattered around the world, from Bangkok and Paraguay to Michigan and North Carolina. Like Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah operates successfully in public spheres that are closed off to most terrorist groups. It runs a vast and effective social-services network. It publishes newspapers and magazines and owns a satellite television station that is said to be watched by ten million people a day in the Middle East and Europe. The station, called Al Manar, or the Lighthouse, broadcasts anti-American programming, but its main purpose is to encourage Palestinians to become suicide bombers.

Along with this public work, Hez bollah continues to increase its terrorist and guerrilla capabilities. Magnus Ranstorp says that Hezbollah can be active on four tracks simultaneously—the political, the social, the guerrilla, and the terrorist—because its leaders are "masters of long-term strategic subversion." The organization's Special Security Apparatus operates in Europe, North and South America, and East Asia. According to both American and Israeli intelligence officials, the group maintains floating "day camps" for terrorist training throughout the Bekaa Valley; many of the camps are said to be just outside Baalbek. In some of them, the instructors are supplied by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps and Iran's Ministry of Intelligence. In the past twenty years, terrorists from such disparate organizations as the Basque separatist group ETA, the Red Brigades, the Kurdistan Workers' Party, and the Irish Republican Army have been trained in these camps....

[Karenina]

34. THEY'RE bad. We're GOOD!!!

THEY'RE bad. We're GOOD!!! THEY'RE bad. We're GOOD!!! THEY'RE bad. We're GOOD!!!

It's the American way! :sarcasm:

The only thing that is important now is that there are enough enlightened souls on this planet to achieve an end to the carnage and destruction. NOW. Lebanon has been DESTROYED and there is hell to pay.

Damn, I wish I were the omnipotent Mom of World. EVERYBODY go to your rooms. NO BACKTALK. I don't give a shit who started it, GO TO YOUR ROOMS. NO TV, NO videogames, No Baklava. JUST GO TO YOUR ROOMS IMMEDIATELY IF YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOOD FOR YOU. First I need some peace and quiet, then I'll deal with you little twerps. Just wait till your father gets home...

[MADem]

37. America and Iran both sit and watch with interest

This situation is horrible. It's brutal, it's vicious, and it won't get better unless and until Hizb'Allah are disarmed.

The American Way right now is to sit on the sidelines and let Israel be our proxy, and Iran do the same while funding Hizb'Allah to do their dirty work. The poor bastards in the middle are the Lebanese.

But if the militia are not fully disarmed, a cease-fire will be followed by a resumption of hostilities as soon as they plus-up their supply of rockets. To think otherwise is wishful and unrealistic. They want Israel wiped off the map. They aren't going to stop doing this, no matter what.

[Karenina]

38. And how exactly to "disarm" Hezbollah???

By destroying Lebanon, a Western-leaning fledgling government? The citizens of Lebanon are nothing more than "poor bastards?"

I'll tell you what, the first "bunker-busting-depleted-uranium" ordance (already overnight expressed to Israel by the U.S. in defiance of protocol) dropped on the Lebanese population will welcome the Israeli MIC into the *club of genocidal maniacs. Does that sentence offend you? Lebanon is ALREADY COMPLETELY DESTROYED.

What you fail to take into account is that the RW loonies in Israel ALSO want the dirty, lice-infested, no-partner-in-peace Ay-rabs WIPED OFF THE MAP, ESPECIALLY if they are sitting on top of WATER RESOURCES.

[MADem]

44. Lebanon is not "already completely destroyed"

There are significant areas of battle damage, make no mistake. But they are concentrated in specific areas where the militia is operating, as well as assets that the militia can make use of. Keep in mind a full fifth of the useless Lebanese Army is also Hizb'Allah, and they have been involved in weapons smuggling (by land, sea and air) prior to the start of the conflict.

Neighborhoods are ruined but there are places in the capital that are untouched. Whole communities have been left unscathed, while others, like Bint Jbeil, are taking it up the wazoo, but that's where the Hizb'Allah tunnels, bunkers, caves and caches are believed to be located. Damage to the airports and other facilities is targeted--runways, which can be repaired, for example, but well pocked, so repair can't happen easily. The Israelis are operating on the best intel they have, they're using drone and satellite technology to pinpoint as best they can the location of these launch sites and return fire to them.

If you want to believe that the Israelis are doing this gleefully, with a song in their heart, well, go ahead. I can't change your mind. But the sad fact is that this is the LAST thing they want to do.

If a few right wing loonies, like the crazy settlers, have malice and ill intent towards Arabs, that is NOT the policy of the government of Israel. Also, those settlers aren't operating a separate militia under the nose of their parent government, funded to the tune of a hundred million annually by a nation outside the state borders, to achieve that goal. Iran and their Hizb'Allah proxies ARE doing that.

I've dealt with those guys, and they aren't freedom fighters. But believe what you want. My view simply differs from yours. Your mind is made up, but so is mine.

[anotherdrew]

12. true or not they are playing the info/psy-war brilliantly

this in combination with Iraq and Afganistan should make everyone question the ability of warfare methods to accomplish anything

[bemildred]

15. Yeah, hasn't really missed a trick so far.

It is clear that neither the US or Israel is controlling the agenda, or the "terms of the debate". He's either really smart or really lucky, and I'm leaning towards smart.

[anotherdrew]

20. the peace deal they've already agreed to isn't a bad deal

I hope it's reconsidered soon.

-=-

In the Gunsight: Syria! or: A Nice Little War
by Uri Avnery
29-7-06

IT IS the old story about the losing gambler: he cannot stop. He continues to play, in order to win his losses back. He continues to lose and continues to gamble, until he has lost everything: his ranch, his wife, his shirt.

The same thing happens in the biggest gamble of all: war. The leaders that start a war and get stuck in the mud are compelled to fight their way ever deeper into the mud. That is a part of the very essence of war: it is impossible to stop after a failure. Public opinion demands the promised victory. Incompetent generals need to cover up their failure. Military commentators and other armchair strategists demand a massive offensive. Cynical politicians are riding the wave. The government is carried away by the flood that they themselves have let loose.

That is what happened this week, following the battle of Bint-Jbeil, which the Arabs have already started to call proudly Nasrallahgrad. All over Israel the cry goes up: Get into it! Quicker! Further! Deeper!

A day after the bloody battle, the cabinet decided on a massive mobilization of the reserves. What for? The ministers do not know. But it does not depend on them anymore, nor on the generals. The political and military leadership is tossed about on the waves of war like a boat without a rudder.

As has been said before: it is much easier to start a war than to finish one. The cabinet believes that it controls the war, but in reality it is the war that controls them. They have mounted a tiger, and can't be sure of getting off without being torn to pieces.

War has its own rules. Unexpected things happen and dictate the next moves. And the next moves tend to be in one direction: escalation.

continues...
http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1154197701

[bemildred]

23. Yeah, it actually seemed like a sound basis for negotiation.

It's been on the table from the beginning too, but don't tell anyone.

[Igel]

24. He and his men can enforce the rules

in the territory they control, and over the necessary people. They know it, and the people know it. And act appropriately.

The people include reporters, when not simply stupid; politicians; the military; villagers; UNIFIL; and Annan.

The US and Israel can't, because both they and the people know they wouldn't actually enforce the rules. They'd complain.

[bemildred]

25. He does appear to have excellent control.

Edit: and to be ruthless. But what else would one expect in this situation?

[MADem]

22. Agreed re: the psyops aspect, completely. As for the warfare, you might

be right in 'high principle,' but NO SIDE in this conflict is convinced of that. Remember, the Lebanese people are NOT 'in' this conflict--they are BETWEEN IT, despite Nasrallah's protestations that he is fighting this fight for "them"...yeah, thanks, but no thanks, pal!

At this point, they could give a shit WHO stops it, they just want it to stop. What they really want is to roll back the clock, though that's impossible.

If the militia end of Hizb'Allah isn't neutralized, there could well be American boots on the ground in Lebanon before the Monkey leaves the White House. And it could get ugly as hell.

I wish I could be more sanguine, but I believe the forces that are determined to neutralize Hizb'Allah have the greater interest in prosecuting this war (Hizb'Allah's stated determination to kill all the Jews and push their bloated corpses into the sea might have something to do with their sense of urgency). Hizb'Allah may hope to disengage and claim victory, but I'm not sure that they'll let them at this point. If it ends now, Hizb'Allah can claim victory. Israel will only disengage if they've reduced the threat to peanuts--it all depends on the body count (of fighters, not civilians) and the number of missile/rocket assets terminated. If both numbers are massive, they might break it off.

Otherwise, count on this shit going on for a month more, and who knows what can happen if it continues on for that length of time? It could go on for two, three, six months....and it could morph into something unanticipated, and much worse.

[funnymanpants]

27. I doubt it

I doubt America would send soldiers to Lebanon. They would just be sitting ducks, and besides, we don't any to spend. I think the US might remember what happened with the bombing of `83.

As far as Hezbollah wanting to destroy Israel, this is really not important. Iranian leadership wants to do the same. It is simply an empty threat either way, and Israel, with the 4th strongest military in the world, knows it. By the way, there are also members of the Israel cabinet, belonging to the Nationalist Party, who openly advocate driving the Palestinians off their land. And of course, this is exactly what Israel is doing right now. So while Hezbollah can wish all it wants, Israel acts right now.

I also doubt Hezbollah's threat will be reduced any more than it was before Irael's bombing. Hezbollah has gone stronger. Israe knows you can't defeat a popular organization like Hezbollah and have outright stated this in the last week or so. They couldn't defeat Hezbollah when Israel occupied Lebanon, so how will it weaken it just by bombing? Unless Israel wants to engage in another full-scale occupation--and even then, that wouldn't work--Hezbollah will re-arm, though only will crappy little Katyshua rockets.

[bemildred]

30. It would be a stunningly stupid move, very Bush-like actually. nt

[funnymanpants]

31. true!

I should have noted that the Neocons will go ahead anyway, if they can get away with it.

[MADem]

32. The US DOD certainly have no INTENT to so do

But the draft boards all have members now.

When an Archduke got shot prior to WW1, we never thought we'd end up in it. Same deal with WW2--we dragged our feet before we jumped in there, too. But jump in, we did. Never discount the possible.

I disagree with your "empty threat" assertion on the part of Iran and their proxy militia. Strongly. Having seen this, again and again, in speeches over the years by these guys, I gotta say don't kid yourself--they MEAN it. They want Palestine free of Jews, they want Jerusalem as a MUSLIM city, and eventually, they want to tear down the House of Saud and gain control of Mekkah and Medina. They say it ALL THE TIME. At some point, one is probably well advised to take them at their word. Iran does have designs on being the superpower of the Middle East, and they actually think they are the ones to do it, because the Arabs are too damn dumb to handle the task (they'll never admit that publicly, but that's how they feel).

If Hizb'Allah has NO militia left, they are less dangerous. Iran will be set back on their heels a bit, and forced to expend money, time, and manpower recruiting a new bunch of suckers, shipping them off to Syria, training them, outfitting them, and ensuring that they are sufficiently "with the program." It takes quite some time to reconstitute these outfits--this one did not pop up from nowhere, it has been building since it was established in the early eighties.

And as for their lousy rockets, they've commenced upgrading: The longer-range rockets landed in open ground near the town of Afula, about 50 km from the Lebanese border. It matched the furthest that Hezbollah rockets had landed inside Israel since the conflict began. Hezbollah said it had fired new "Khaibar 1" missiles at Afula, fulfilling a pledge by its leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah to extend its bombardment of Israel beyond the port of Haifa. Israeli media reported that a Hezbollah rocket hit a clinic in the northern Israeli city of Nahariya but caused no injuries. An Israeli shell exploded near an aid convoy in south Lebanon, wounding at least three people, witnesses said. http://www.kuwaittimes.net/Navariednews.asp?dismode=article&artid=1248456605

And the real point is, if this thing keeps on, what will be the payload in these rockets, Katyushas or Khaibars, eventually? Right now it's ball bearings and feces, what will it be after this goes on for awhile??? Or, they accept a cease-fire, only to pull another sneak attack later down the road?

A cease fire may stop this mess now, but count on this--unless Hizb'allah is crushed, disarmed, scattered, and a Lebanese Army or some other entity takes up residence on the southern Lebanese border, this crap will not stop, and even if it stops temporarily for tactical reasons (resupply, mostly), it will happen again. And next time, it could get really, really ugly.

[anotherdrew]

50. um...

everything you say shows that Hizb'Allah controls the situatuion, in fact, the invasion seems to have made them stonger, not weaker.

[MADem]

54. Their numbers and assets are finite

It's why you will see an international "hands off" attitude towards this conflict until both of those factors can be chipped away. It will be costly, but they will be damaged. The question is if they will be damaged sufficiently to make reconstitution a difficult and lengthy process.

[High Plains]

55. What international "hands off" attitude?

The whole world is screaming for this to end. The US stands in the way. We have blood on our hands--again.

[MADem]

57. That is all they are doing, flapping their gums

The UN talks to Israel, they talk to Lebanon, but they can't get a hold of the bastards who started this shit up, the Hizb'Allah. This headline says it all: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2290540,00.html

After two weeks, council says it is 'shocked and distressed'

The nations of the world regard this as a pressure valve situation; they're going to let it play out. There's a load of talk, and no action. That is not accidental.

For this to end, the Ayatullahs in Teheran just have to say "HEEL, BOY!" and it's over. They're not quite ready to do that, but it does appear likely their proxies are running out of juice, which is why they are conducting their warfare from civilian-heavy locales, to provoke the outrage to enable them to have a plausible excuse to stop this party they started in the first place.

[EVDebs]

48. Really ?

In another twenty-five or less years the world's oil supply will be depleted, the Middle East's failed states so overpopulated, and impending desertification and water supply shortages so bad that the current religiously inspired distractions will be something fondly remembered by all in that troubled region of the world.

Short term "info/psy-war" in relation to what ? You forget that "mother nature bats last" to your own peril. R's in the US have already become irrelevent. Religious loonies in the ME will take longer to learn this I guess.

BTW, Israel's 'intifada' could go on forever.

[anotherdrew]

49. well if you want to worry about that, plenty at home

the entire south west is going to be out of water, what then?

[EVDebs]

53. Look at the coastal population of the US...and desalination

Check any demographic about US population (50%+ live within 50 miles of the coastlines--in mainly blue states I might add) and see

http://www.cast.uark.edu/local/catalog/national/html/Population.htmldir/USpop1990.html

and nighttime

http://www.census.gov/geo/www/mapGallery/2kpopden.html

and NOAA's reports on this

http://www.oceanservice.noaa.gov/programs/mb/supp_cstl_population.html

and you see that desalination is going to have to become the 'source' for water in the future of the US.

Also note that if the 'breadbasket' of the world, the US midwest, is depopulated/dewatered, then the future "food bomb" rather than "oil weapon" the Arab world seeks to weild will go off.

I guess I've got to say again, Mother Nature Bats Last.

[stepnw1f]

10. Just WOW!

Me thinks they will get caught in trying to create WWIII before it happens. Thank God for the internets.

[lovuian]

17. I kinda believe US is at fault here...

Maybe Israel is waking up... Hope so...

Plans on paper are different that actual war... soldiers don't like dying no matter what army they belong too...

[EFerrari]

51. OMFG.

:kick: