35 Lebanese killed in IAF strike on Qana village*

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"Some 35 Lebanese civilians were killed, 21 of them children, in an Israel Air Force strike on a building in the south Lebanon village of Qana on Sunday morning. Dozens of others were reportedly trapped in the building.

Some 40 targets were hit in IAF strikes overnight across Lebanon. Among the targets were buildings used by Hezbollah, rocket launchers and bridges.

The Israel Defense Forces renewed its ground offensive in south Lebanon on Sunday morning. A Nachal division, backed by armored troops, began operating in southern Lebanon, heading toward the village of Taibeh.

Also Sunday, IDF troops clashed with Hezbollah militants in southern Lebanon, north of Dovev. Hezbollah fighters sustained injuries in the clashes."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/743736.html

*Haaretz headlines subject to change as story develops.

[JesterCS]

1. CNN Reporting 65

As Per banner

[Scurrilous]

3. Dozens killed, wounded in Israeli airstrike

<snip>

"An Israeli airstrike hit a four-story residential building used as a shelter by Lebanese refugees in the southern Lebanese town of Qana Sunday morning, killing and wounding more than 65 people, a Lebanese emergency official said.

The official -- speaking live on Al-Arabiya TV -- said the bodies of 15 dead had been pulled from the rubble but rescuers lacked the heavy equipment to remove an estimated 50 people still trapped under the collapsed building.

"We can't do anything for them under the rubble because we do not have the right equipment," the unidentified official said.

A Lebanese security official told CNN that between 20 and 40 are known dead.

Most of the dead were gathered in the basement of the building when it was hit by a missile, the official said. Women and children were among the dead, he said."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/30/mideast.main/index.html

[lonestarnot]

101. 50 reported at emergency meeting of UN Security Council Meeting in NY

[Connie_Corleone]

2. Reporting Live on CNN International now nt

[wellst0nev0ter]

4. Jesus Fuck

Did the Israelis not learn from the LAST massacre of that village in 1996? The one that Boutros Boutros Gali (sp?) condemned, an act which lead Cilnton to replace him with Kofi Annan as UN Secretary General?

Oh wait. . .

[still_one]

5. Let's see they are shooting missles from Qana

what do they expect to happen?

In fact what would any other country do if missles were be fired at it from a specific location?

[daleo]

8. According to CNN International, the remaining civilians are poor

They simply don't have the resources to leave. And if they did, the roads a nearly impassible. The Israelis have also attacked civilian convoys.

[still_one]

9. what would any OTHER country in the world do

if missles were shot from a specific area at them?

[Scurrilous]

10. Agree to a ceasefire?

:shrug:

[mom cat]

38. They HAVE agreed to the ceasefire and the peace proplsal from the EU.

Isreal has not. Now more children are dead.

[wellst0nev0ter]

11. Why Don't You Ask The Turks?

Since the ONLY PROPER THING for any self respecting country to do after their soldiers have been killed by terrorists is to pound the tar out of a defenseless nation, the Turks should have been bombing Baghdad Airport, Sadr City, Karbala, Tal Afar, and other "soft targets" in response to its 15 soldiers being killed by the Kurds.

Of course, Turkey never enjoyed the exceptionalism that the Israelis have.

[still_one]

14. The Turks are getting ready to cross the border

http://www.turks.us/article.php?story=20050728004226536

[tkmorris]

22. You have well and truly jumped the shark

You can't defend this. This is NOT defensible.

[bilgewaterbill]

80. Hezbollah firing rockets from behind civilian skirts is not defensible.

[IndianaGreen]

111. Are you parroting the megaphone talking points from giyus.org?

Israel's Foreign Ministry provides Free Internet Tool to online activists

Dear friends,

Many of us recognize the importance of the Internet as the new battleground for Israel's image. It's time to do it better, and coordinate our on-line efforts on behalf of Israel. An Israeli software company have developed a free, safe and useful tool for us - the Internet Megaphone.

Please go to www.giyus.org, download the Megaphone, and you will receive daily updates with instant links to important internet polls, problematic articles that require a talk back, etc.

We need 100,000 Megaphone users to make a difference. So, please distribute this mail to all Israel's supporters.

Do it now. For Israel.

Amir Gissin

Director Public Affairs (Hasbara) Department
Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Jerusalem

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article5239.shtml

Today's conflicts are won by public opinion.

Now is the time to be active and voice Israel's side to the world.

Join the effort in 3 easy steps:
Download and install Megaphone desktop tool
Receive desktop alerts on key articles and surveys
Click alerts to easily voice your opinion

Help us by reporting relevant articles and surveys.

http://www.giyus.org /

[bilgewaterbill]

115. I'm not "parroting" anyone. Hezbollah hides among civilians.

That, sir, is cowardly and violates the Geneva Convention.

[IndianaGreen]

117. That's like saying that Baptists hide among civilians in Alabama

Israel is the one that has launched a war of aggression against Lebanon. Her targets have been all of the Lebanese people, including Christians.

When it comes to violating the Geneva Convention and ignoring UN Resolutions, no one comes close to Israel.

[bilgewaterbill]

120. Baptists don't launch rockets. Israel, according to the UNSC,

had a right to defend herself against the attack by Hezbollah that resulted in this latest battle. Israel has warned the Lebanese people to vacate the areas they intended to attack. Hezbollah launches sneak attacks. Israel has made every effort to avoid civilian casualties. Hezbollah has made every effort to cause civilian casualties- on both sides.

[IndianaGreen]

123. The "hiding among civilians" myth

The "hiding among civilians" myth

Israel claims it's justified in bombing civilians because Hezbollah mingles with them. In fact, the militant group doesn't trust its civilians and stays as far away from them as possible.

By Mitch Prothero


Photo by Mitchell Prothero/WPN
A dog walks through the rubble of buildings hit by
Israeli airstrikes in the nearly deserted town of
Nabatiya, Lebanon, on Tuesday.

Throughout this now 16-day-old war, Israeli planes high above civilian areas make decisions on what to bomb. They send huge bombs capable of killing things for hundreds of meters around those targets to destroy them, and then blame the inevitable civilian deaths -- the Lebanese government says 600 civilians have been killed so far -- on "terrorists" who callously use the civilian infrastructure for protection.

But this claim is almost always false. My own reporting and that of other journalists reveals that in fact Hezbollah fighters -- as opposed to the much more numerous Hezbollah political members, and the vastly more numerous Hezbollah sympathizers -- avoid civilians like the plague. Much smarter and better trained than the PLO and Hamas fighters, they know that if they mingle with civilians, they will sooner or later be betrayed by collaborators -- as so many Palestinian militants have been.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/07/28/hezbollah/index_np.html

[bilgewaterbill]

126. The Flat Earth Society still exists, too. nt.

[tabasco]

A civilized country would send in ground forces to locate the rocket crew.

An uncivilized, nazi-like country would bomb everything in sight without concern for civilians.

[PCIntern]

66. That may yet come...

and then you'll be incensed that they sent in Ground Forces...which does not comprise, say 30 guys with sidearms...you're going to see a huge column, battalion strength going in and with much attendant death and destruction. You're not gonna like that either.

War is impossibly horrible...

[tabasco]

68. Is that right?

Thanks for telling me what I will like.

I am a former infantry officer and know what a ground or airmobile operation looks like.

It is much more civilized to go in and find the launcher (if indeed it was fired from that area).

It is totally barbaric to just bomb the area without regard to civilians.

That's how it happened in Warsaw and other Polish cities in 1939.

[PCIntern]

72. so if you're military

you know that these missles are launched from a simple tripod with a timing device...the 'folks' would be long gone. You also muyst know that many of the ordinance dropped by your least favorite country had many secondary explosions, implying that they hit stores of arms and ammo in Beirut and elsewhere. Think it's a real good idea to send in a squad or two? This is not a Rambo or Chuck Norris movie here.

[tabasco]

81. Yes, and I assume the Israeli military knows the same thing.

That knowledge makes the bombing that much more inexcusable. It is a war crime to punish a civilian population for the actions of a few combatants. That is what the nazis did to French and Czech resistance in WWII. Aside from the fact it is barbaric, this type of indiscriminate bombing is counterproductive.

Again, you attribute knowledge or feelings to me without any basis. What is exactly my "least favorite country?" Is it Israel? I didn't know that. Again, your prescient powers fail to astound me.

Also, you imply that I assume a company-level operation. Why do you assume that? Does Israel have only squad-sized elements of Rambo types? Again, your analysis fails to make sense. Sending a battalion task force airmobile assault would be much preferable to bombing a building full of civilians. Do you think that Israeli infantry would have killed all the civilians? If so, then your analysis makes a bit of sense. But I don't believe that would have happened.

edit typo

[PCIntern]

82. Fair enough...

so when Israel sense in it's battalion, there will be quiet understanding from those here at DU, because they've taken into account the military options, and have decided that that would be the best option for all concerned. uh-huh.

The real mistake the Israelis made was to emulate the easy-way-out schemes of Rumsfeld and co. - they should have launched a full wave attack and cleared the area of every man woman and child and sent them packing. Of course there'd be loads of casualties on all three sides, IDF, Hez. and Civ., but that on balance would be preferable to this slow drain.

FWIW, I do not for one instant believe that the IDF deliberately killed those kids and those civilian adults and like all the posters who bombard me with requests for PROOF of that, I would with a wink, request PROOF that there was a direct order from the Command and Control center.

[High Plains]

85. I get really sick of warmongering bastards on this board.

[PCIntern]

87. Are you telling me or complaining about me?

Personally, I'm tired of the warmongering bastards everywhere. First on my list are those in DC, second are those in the countries which surround Israel, third are those in Africa who are not only warmongering but genocidal, fourth are those in the former Soviet Republics, fifth are those in Indonesia...

[LostinVA]

108. Me too -- it is becoming quite nauseating, to be honest n/t

[Zodiak]

114. I have never seen my ignore list grow so fast n/t

[Zodiak]

86. Proof is impossible.

The best we can do is support a full investigation with full disclosure. That means that Israel would have to open up its books, and so would Hezbollah. We will see who is lying.

Supporting a full invesitgation by a neutral party is something that all sides should be able to agree upon. That is, if they are acting in good faith.

If opposed, I would call that prima facia evidence that that party is not acting in good faith.

[PCIntern]

88. Ed Zachary as the joke goes...

so lets go...I flipped a coin and the Hezbollah came up first. Let me know how it goes for starters, then I'll go to work on the Israelis...

[Zodiak]

92. There is no joke when discussing this

please refrain from doing so, as it disrespectful of the situation.

And no peace is brokered by working on only one side (especially the one doing <10% of the violence), so the premise of your joke is not consistent with diplomatic standards. Therefore I so no point to your response than to be dismissive.

At the risk of receiving a similar response, I must insist that you try again without insulting my intelligence.

[PCIntern]

95. Very formal response.

All right:

If you would be so kind, please accept my statement of "Exactly", rather than the previously submitted "Ed Zachary", since we shall, whilst this process is continuing, refrain from any references to human emotionality, especially that of the humorous variety, during these most trying times.

Further, I would submit to you that all refrain from watching Colbert,Leno, Letterman, and especially Jon Stewart in order that the extraordinary seriousness of the extra-constitutional takeover by the present Administration not be trivialized.

I do solemnly and respectfully beg your pardon.

[Zodiak]

103. I asked for it

another insult to my intelligence by raising your strawman (did I say no human emotionality? No, I said no joking in making points about this war). You have your excuse; I showed you the low road, and you took it.

And you have no idea who my friends are (concerning your post to me below), so please do not act like you do. That is also not honest and not acting in good faith, either.

If you just wish to be belligerent, then fine. I will know to not waste time with you in the future.

[PCIntern]

105. if our intelligence is insulted...

then you're either very thin-skinned or...

BTW, did you note my request to you in the next post to take a gander, as it were, at your co-apologists with their feeble attempts at humor and sarcasm a little further down the line? This is no place for that.

With all due sincerity,

PC

[PCIntern]

98. ....and while you're at it...

Please adress your friend whith his IDF report below. Shameful, don't you think?

[Mountainman]

93. There is no reason for Israel to do this. You have no reason to defend it

It is mass killing and it is not moral and to defend it is not moral. You will have some bad karma to work off in your life for this. Maybe the next life too.

[PCIntern]

97. Wow...

I'm in trouble now.

Think of all the bad Karma for the Hezbollah who put ball bearings into their rockets and shoot them at hospitals in Israel.

[Mountainman]

100. You are responcible for what you do. What others do does not excuse you

[PCIntern]

104. Let's see...

the same could be said for all the Palestinian/Hezbollah apologists around here who stood by with nary a word all these years concerning those attacking a sovereign state. May God have mercy on their souls...

[breakaleg]

106. You have got to be kidding!

You think it would have been preferable to flatten the entire area or country, knowingly killing all civilians in an effort to weed out the terrorists?

What they are doing right now is against international law. They already have no regard for civilians in the area and if it weren't for the support of the US they wouldn't get away with what they are currently doing.

Statements like this only incite more violence. Actions like this only ensure those "terrorists" grow and prosper.

It sounds to me like the "terrorists" are people who condone these actions by Israel.

[LostinVA]

109. Welcome to DU n/t

[PCIntern]

119. You need to read the whole thread...

your co-apologist here said that bombing was killing civilians so it would be better to send in a large group of Israeli soldiers. My contention was that that would lead to many more civilian casualties...

My further point was that is how real war is waged. It is ruthless and doesn't care about civilians...ask the Japanese and the Germans, ask the Vietnamese. It's always the same - war is horrible because civilians die.

[Zodiak]

83. Awfully thin excuse

Secondary explosions come from many, many other sources, not just weapons.

Gas lines, gas tanks, houshold chemicals, solvent waste, dry cleaners, paint stores, etc would all produce "secondary" explosions. It is no proof of anything other than the fact that what was just bombed was being used by people.

And yes, you verify claims like "we blew up ordinance in Beirut" by confirming it on the ground. No one can make such as assessment from the air.

And the word on the ground is....Israel is not blowing up rockets and ordinance; they are blowing up toddlers, hospitals, roads, grainaries, women, and men. It is a war-crime, and it must stop. Israel's leaders also need to be put on trial for it, as well. If innocent, the evidence will show it.

As far as Hezbollah, they need the same treatment. Fair is fair. The humanitarian arms of Hezbollah, if it exists as stated, should have nothng to fear from a evidentiary hearing.

But this war is not fair, that is for sure, and it needs to stop, now.

[PCIntern]

89. You're right.

It's just that simple...

[leftchick]

36. and we should believe this is where the missile came from why?

because Israel said so? 500 Civilians killed so far to find some missiles? I see no justification for the state terror Israel has committed. It is exactly the justification the US uses for having slaughtered hundreds of thousands in Iraq. "fighting the terrorists"? :puke:

[alcibiades_mystery]

54. This is a deeply shameful post

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[muriel_volestrangler]

58. I wouldn't bomb a large civilian building

I might look for missile lanuchers instead. You seriously think bombing a building with a load of civilians sheltering in the basement is an acceptable response to a missile being fired from the area? It's collective punishment, and is illegal, and deeply immoral.

[Pale Blue Dot]

118. IT DOESN'T WORK.

What would another country do? Hopefully something to make it's own citizens safer. But that doesn't seem to be the MO these days.

IT DOESN'T WORK. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1769555&mesg_id=1769555

[Zhade]

24. So you support Israel's murder of children to get at Hezbollah?

NT!

[norml]

30. Where's the proof? And besides, it's rockets Hezbollah has, not missiles.

Not many other countries would dare lay waste to and utterly destroy another country (waging wars of aggression/committing crimes against humanity) over a couple of captured soldiers, or a few pathetic un-guided rockets.

[DoYouEverWonder]

31. Oh go kill 30 or 40 children I suppose?

That should even the score don't you think? :sarcasm:

[Cobalt Violet]

33. Kill children.

And then pretend it was necessary and the right thing to do.

[Zhade]

130. Hey CV, OT (maybe) - what's that ribbon for?

I haven't seen that one before.

[Cobalt Violet]

131. It's a Hep C awareness ribbon.

:hi:

[IndianaGreen]

34. Lebanese can no more flee than the people of New Orleans could when Katrina

Lebanese can no more flee than the people of New Orleans could when Katrina struck. Israel has been hitting Red Cross convoys as it has hit fleeing refugees. Yesterday Israeli bombs felt on the Lebanese-Syrian border, on a road packed with fleeing refugees. All of this has been reported by the Western non-US press. The new Axis of Evil (US, UK, Israel) has opposed a ceasefire. The US has rushed bunker buster bombs to Israel, which apparently have been used already on civilians.

All of Israel's internet megaphones cannot obfuscate what Israel is doing to Lebanon: turned it into a free fire zone!

[alcibiades_mystery]

37. Fill out the IDF report!!!!

[AngryOldDem]

73. Umm...

...maybe make sure that CIVILIANS...especially CHILDREN...were given adequate warning to leave the area?

This could have been avoided. Israel's feeble "excuses" and lame "apologies" can't even begin to clean up the blood spilled today.

Thirty-five kids. 35!

[Mr_Spock]

78. Mmmm, slaghtering babies because of where they live is fun!

This is disgusting.

[magellan]

6. Did the Israelis manage to kill any Hezbollah? (nt)

[Scurrilous]

7. Women and children Hezbollah...

...in their Hezbollah nightclothes, sleeping in their Hezbollah beds.

[magellan]

12. That's what I thought

edited to remove my comment. Even with the sarcasm tag it seemed callous, after seeing the photo of that little girl in her father's (?) arms. God this is heartbreaking.

[smirkymonkey]

67. This is totally inexcusable - I am so disgusted right now.

I can barely get my mind around this inhmanity - it's so overwhelmingly awful I am at a loss for words.

[jseankil]

13. but but but they were aiming for terrrorists! Fuck off Israel, fuck off.

you kill people thats what you do, in the name of terror, don't fucking kid yourselves.

[xultar]

15. and well they told everyone to leave. So...it isn't their fault.

[jseankil]

17. those dead children should have listen to the IDF

I'm assuming the IDF provided air transportation to those dead children since they bomb the shit out of the roads?

[Scurrilous]

20. You're all targets, Israel tells Lebanese in South (07/28/06)

<snip>

"Everyone remaining in southern Lebanon will be regarded as a terrorist, Israel's justice minister said yesterday as the military prepared to employ "huge firepower" from the air in its campaign to crush Hizbollah.

Haim Ramon issued the warning as the Israeli government decided against expanding ground operations after the death of nine soldiers in fighting on Wednesday.

"What we should do in southern Lebanon is employ huge firepower before a ground force goes in," Mr Ramon said at a security cabinet meeting headed by Ehud Olmert, the prime minister. "Everyone in southern Lebanon is a terrorist and is connected to Hizbollah. Our great advantage vis-a-vis Hizbollah is our firepower, not in face-to-face combat."

<snip>

"Mr Ramon's comments suggested that civilian casualties in Lebanon, which stand at about 600 after 16 days of bombardment, could rise yet higher.

The government's unrelenting line has the backing of the Israeli media, which are demanding a harsh response to an ambush in the Hizbollah stronghold of Bint Jbeil, in which eight soldiers died."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/28/wmid28.xml

[Zhade]

25. "Everyone remaining in southern Lebanon will be regarded as a terrorist"

So this MADMAN, who belongs in prison or at the end of a noose for war crimes, calls BABIES and TODDLERS terrorists.

And people actually DEFEND Israel on this shit? What are they, mad themselves?

[LostinVA]

40. Mad or/and evil

Anyone defending any of this cannot call themselves a Dem, a liberal, a Progressive. Progressives do not make excuses for the slaughter of innocents.

[IndianaGreen]

46. Was he channeling General Westmoreland?

Our blank check support of Israel is hurting our own interests in the region!

[MisterP]

70. oh god, I don't like where this is headed

[mbperrin]

75. Will Ramon require the population there to wear little crescents

on their clothing, you know, so you can really identify "THOSE" people?

And shouldn't the name of Lebanon now be changed to Warsaw?

I could only wish I was being sarcastic....

[rodeodance]

16. update: Israeli airstrikes kill 40 in Lebanon town

http://news.yahoo.com/

Israeli airstrikes kill 40 in Lebanon town


A civil defense worker carries the body of Lebanese child recovered from the rubble of a demolished building that was struck by Israeli war plane missiles at the village of Qana near the southern Lebanon city of Tyre, Sunday, July 30, 2006. Israeli missiles struck this southern Lebanese village early Sunday, flattening houses on top of sleeping residents. Lebanese security officials said more than 20 people were killed in the 1 a.m. (2200GMT) air strike at Qana. (AP Photo/Nasser Nasser)
Enlarge Photo
AP
AP - 31 minutes ago

QANA, Lebanon - Israeli missiles destroyed several homes in a southern Lebanese village early Sunday, killing at least 40 people in one building. Fighting between Israeli soldiers and Hezbollah guerrillas broke out along the border.

[Scurrilous]

18. Lebanese PM: This is deliberate Israeli operation

Fouad Siniora explains in press conference following IAF air strike on village of Qana: 'This was no mistake, this is event that repeats itself.' He calls for immediate ceasefire and international inquiry into events

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3283500,00.html

<snip>

"Referring to the bombing of Qana village, which caused the death of 50 people, most of them children, sources in the Lebanese government said: "This is a deliberate operation of Israel."

<snip>

"Siniora added: "On this sad morning, there is no room to discuss anything except an unconditional ceasefire, and to establish an international inquiry committee to investigate the massacres the Israelis carried out in Lebanon." Official sources in Lebanon informed US Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, who is staying in the region, that he would not be able to meet with her until a ceasefire is achieved. Siniora refused to refer to reports that Condoleeza cancelled her visit to Lebanon following the event.

"In honor of the memory of those killed and of the corpses of children under the rubble, I call the world to stand by our side against the Israeli war criminals. Israel and her crimes will not break our spirit and will not bring us to forego our rights and surrender," said the Lebanese prime minister.

He demanded an inquiry into the events of Qana, emphasizing: "All talk right now that is not directed at an immediate ceasefire is unacceptable."

The chairman of the Parliament, ordained by Hizbullah as their political and diplomatic representative, said that he completely supports the position of Prime Minister Siniora."

[Disturbed]

19. The present Israeli Govt. is sending a message to

all that oppose Israeli Occupation. Women and children will die and be maimed, thousands will be homeless and cities and villages will be turned to rubble if any Govt. allows Resistence Fighters against Israel to be in their nation.

[Zhade]

27. Well, they've been sending the message for years in Palestine...

...yet terrorism continues to grow.

Hmmmm.

Maybe murdering innocent civilians isn't the way to go, for Israel OR the United States, eh?

[Igel]

90. "Our"?

The Lebanese government is at war?

[LostinVA]

110. The Lebanese people are being attacked and slaughtered

Lebanese infrastructure is being destroyed and its land taken over.... so I think using "we" works.

[newyorican]

135. The Lebanese government is at war?

Yes. Duh.

[cali]

21. Inexcusable

horrendous, morally repugnant- what else is there to say?

[Zhade]

23. OUTRAGEOUS!

Get Olmert's ass to the Hague!

[JCMach1]

26. Precisely, war crimes

:(

[Zhade]

28. If anyone defends this, they defend madness.

They defend murder.

This is indefensible, just like the use of WP.

Indefuckingfensible!

[IndianaGreen]

45. Israel's internet megaphones got their talking points!

We can expect to hear the same line of bullshit from their megaphones in the American media.

[jayfish]

71. That Pales In Comparison To Their MSM Megaphones. Tonight On CNN...

we get to watch "CNN Presents:Inside Hezbollah" for the 800th time. Followed up by the brand new, and sure to be drilled into our heads ad-nausea, "CNN Presents:Marine Barracks Bombing". By the time CNN is done with that one, the rage over this event will subside and we will be back on the "Israel has an inherent right to defend itself" track.

http://brasscheck.com/videos/middleeast/me1.html

Jay

[HongKonger]

94. actually

CNN international has been covering the event quite well.

Until we got interupted by the propagandist known as Wolf Blitzer,

[AngryOldDem]

77. Well, hell, they apologized...

...what else do you want? :mad: :sarcasm:

[drduffy]

29. Remember who is truly responsible....

1. the Israeli military as proximal cause
2. the neocon Likuds and Olmert
3. George Bush and the neocons here who are orchestrating these abominations to further their plans.

Remember, if George can promote the deaths of 100,000++ chlldren and mothers in Iraq, why should he care if proxy Israel does the same?

I can only hope I live to see the day when these 'leaders' suffer the same consequences as the children in that building in Qana. They deserve far far worse.

[Massachusetts]

32. Some 35 Lebanese civilians were killed, 21 of them children, in an Israel

Gee, That sounds familiar (substitute Iraqi instead of Lebanese),....and we seem to get away with it ALL THE TIME. Why are you people "horrified or angered" by this? OUR own government(you know the one that REPRESENTS you and I), has and is guilty of atrocities similar to this and has reacted with little or NO remorse and NO accountability (in the name of Democracy).

Yes, I deplore what happened and YES I detest and deplore what OUR government has become (WE THE PEOPLE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS). We as citizens of the United States of America have been "neutered" by OUR OWN government, but yet we are still responsible for its actions. PROVE ME WRONG.When Bushit and his court are gone WE will get the "blow back"

Summary: People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[allemand]

35. BBC World: 54 dead, 37 children n/t

[LostinVA]

39. But...but....but... Israel has a right to defend herself

Against these evil terrorists, or she may be pushed back into the seas! YOU ANTI SEMITES!

There, did I cover them all?

I woke up to this news... OMGOMGOMG. Indefensible... and posters on this thread defending it are not naive, they are EVIL. Because if you defend evil, then that evilness is also within your soul.

I am disgusted and sickened.

[LizW]

41. IDF says it was a mistake

The guy on CNN just reported and said rather bitingly, "I guess we can end the discussion of 'smart bombs' now."

[PCIntern]

42. What Tony the Idiot said is correct...

During Gulf War I, much of what we called smart bombs was selective use of videos. Many of our bombs missed their targets...that video was only shown 2 or 3 years later.

The notion that war and its subsequent killing is precise is fallacious. War is death and wanton destruction. Americans have been lulled into this sense that war is clean now...if fact it's more primitive and people are maimed and die more horribly than they did in so-called primitive wars with primitive weapons.

[IndianaGreen]

43. Qana is where tradition says Jesus turned water into wine (Canaa)

It is also the site of a previous Israeli massacre of innocent civilians! In 1996, over 100 civilians were killed by Israeli shelling of a UN post that was sheltering them.

Analysis: A second Qana Massacre?

By Martin Asser
BBC News, Beirut

Israel still insists the 1996 shelling was an accident and that its forces had a legitimate militant target - a Hezbollah military unit that had fired mortars and rockets from near the Qana base.

Then, as now, Israel accused Hezbollah of using the civilian population as human shields when they launched their attacks.

However, a UN investigation reported in May 1996 that the deaths at the Qana base were unlikely to have been the result of an accident as claimed by the Israelis.

The UN report cited the repeated use of airburst shells over the small UN compound, which sent down a deadly torrent of shrapnel that caused terrible injuries among the unprotected civilians.

The UN also noted the presence of Israeli helicopters and a drone in the skies over Qana which must have witnessed the bloodbath.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5228554.stm

[Igel]

91. That would be Kana.

Not Qana.

Rather like confusing Canada and Kanada (except that those two are actually pronounced with about the same consonant).

Kfar Kana's the site of an Israeli archeological dig in N. Israel. The other site, assumed to be the right Kana by pilgrims long after Kfar Kana plunged into oblivion, is still, I think, in Israel. (A third is up near Tyre.)

[bronxiteforever]

44. wouldn't want a "false peace" would you, Condi?

I wonder if she can play a children's dirge?

[TomClash]

47. Red Cross says 37 children killed by Israeli airstrikes in Qana

http://www.cnn.com/

[prole100]

48. Can There Be Any Doubt Now About The Ugliness Of Israel's Actions?

eom

[TomClash]

52. No

What a horror. But I'm sure the usual suspects will be here claiming those Lebanese children were terrorists determined to destroy Israel. Blah, blah, blah.

[bronxiteforever]

49. another great Bush moment. His Presidential library

will be a long string of graves of those who died due to his deciding.After all the children wouldn't want a false peace?:cry:

[ixion]

50. holy crap... have we entirely lost the capacity for compassion?

I mean, how many children have to be blown to bits, over one politico-religious reason or another, before we say enough?

Who the hell do we think we are, standing there watching this happen, while we claim the moral highground?

This species has lost it entirely, IMO.

[DoYouEverWonder]

51. I can't wait

for the excuses from the neocon supporters.

If they weren't firing rockets into Israel we wouldn't have to shell them. :sarcasm:

[alcibiades_mystery]

55. Fill out the IDF After Action Report

[54anickel]

53. World condemns attack in Qana

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/30/qana.reaction/index.html

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Politicians from around the world have condemned the Israeli attack on the village of Qana in southern Lebanon that left dozens of civilians dead.

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said she was "deeply saddened" by the deaths of dozens of women and children in the attack, and that she was "pushing for an urgent end" to the fighting.

France, Jordan, and the European Union said the attack underscored the need for an immediate cease-fire.

EU Commissioner for External Affairs Benita Ferrero-Waldner said: "Israel's attack on the city of Qana means an escalation of violence that is unjustifiable at a time when the international community is jointly working to find a solution to the conflict.

[chimpymustgo]

56. Wanton, craven murder. This is intentional. Kill the children.

There is no other explanation. Kill kill kill.

[IndianaGreen]

64. There are buried bodies of children elsewhere in Lebanon, such as Tyre

Buried bodies

The bodies of eight civilians were found near Tyre after Israeli missile strikes on Saturday, Salam Daher, the Lebanese civil defence chief, said.

Rescue workers say dozens more civilians, including a large number of children, are still buried in the rubble of houses destroyed in attacks around the city.

The Lebanese health minister has said the recovery of bodies in the south could raise the toll from the fighting.

Up to 600 Lebanese people, mainly civilians, are thought to have died in the offensive. Fifty-one Israelis have also been killed since Israel launched its offensive in mid-July after the kidnapping of two of its soldiers and rocket attacks by Hezbollah fighters.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6334D333-E2A2-4F66-81E6-42FD108FD8BB.htm

[DoYouEverWonder]

57. I'm sure Condi is deeply sadden

that this mess is cutting into her summer vacation plans. So many shoe stores, so little time.

[Lars39]

59. I just saw her on CNN lying about wanting a cease-fire.

:puke:

[blonndee]

63. Remember, though, for Buscho, "urgent" doesn't mean "immediate."

At least not when it came to the "threat" they booga-booga'ed us with pre-Iraq invasion.

[bling bling]

60. This is where I draw the line.

I support Israel's cause, but I do not support the methods they're employing to reach their goals, because their accidental killing of these children seems reckless. If they can't figure out a way to fight Hizballah without bombing the wrong buildings holding babies or UN personnel, then they need to end it NOW. Enough is enough.

This news ruined my day. I'm sick.

[davhill]

61. Israel needs to keep on killing women and children

The children would grow up to hate Israel and the women would have more children who would grow up to hate Israel. War can not eliminate hatred. It can only increase it.

[IndianaGreen]

62. While our eyes are on Lebanon, Israel has been killing civilians in Gaza

More than 100 Palestinians have been killed, many of them civilians, in Israeli air strikes and incursions since Palestinian militants kidnapped a young Israeli soldier more than a month ago.

Yet the intense attacks on Lebanon have overshadowed the continuing violence in the Gaza Strip, our correspondents say.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5228706.stm

[Matilda]

65. That is probably Israel's intention.

Since it appears quite likely that the two captured Israeli soldiers,
and those killed were taking part in a raid into Lebanese territory,
and were not killed on Israeli territory at all.

Couldn't possibly have been a set-up, could it? :sarcasm:

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

69. 34 CHILDREN Among 56 Dead in Israeli Strike

Sunday July 30, 2006 3:16 PM

AP Photo NN123

By KATHY GANNON

Associated Press Writer

QANA, Lebanon (AP) - Israeli missiles hit several buildings in a southern Lebanon village as people slept Sunday, killing at least 56, most of them children, in the deadliest attack in 19 days of fighting. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert expressed ``great sorrow'' for the airstrikes but blamed Hezbollah guerrillas for using the area to launch rockets at Israel.

The Lebanese Red Cross said the airstrike in Qana, in which at least 34 children were killed, pushed the overall Lebanese death toll to more than 500. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice postponed a visit to Lebanon in a setback for diplomatic efforts to end hostilities.

Before the airstrike, Olmert told Rice he needed 10-14 days to finish the offensive in Lebanon, according to a senior Israeli government official. The two said they would meet again Sunday evening.

Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora asked U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan to hold an emergency Security Council meeting to arrange for an immediate cease-fire after the Qana strike.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5983136,00.html

[BeHereNow]

122. Poor farmers didn't have the money to evacuate. (Katrina'd)

Everyone, including Israel knew the civilians were there-
as a matter of fact they also knew they were poor people
who couldn't leave because they didn't have the resources
to get out.
The UN requested a three day safe passage period to
evacuate those who could not get out on their own-
Israel denied the request and bombed the shit
out of them anyway.
As in New Orleans, Bushco did nothing to
help the poor trapped in the path of destruction.

BHN

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

127. I made that connection as well.

I have used the word 'tragic' too many times today.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mountainman]

96. I don't understand. The sad thing is that this can be used against

Israel? I think the sad think is that Israel does such a thing. Not only sad but despicable. It should be used against Israel. They killed innocent women and children and did not need to do so.

[bluedog]

76. Scenes Of Israeli Massacre In Qana 1996

this is not the 1st time Israel has done this........heres a video of 1996

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/quana_01_19_03.htm

[flyarm]

79. cspan: a Lebanon official just said 60 + more being found. n/t

[funnymanpants]

84. No accident: Israel had planned to kill civilians

Israel had already warned it would do just this a few days ago:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5219360.stm

Mr Ramon - a close confidant of Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert - said "everyone understands that a victory for Hezbollah is a victory for world terror".

He said that in order to prevent casualties among Israeli soldiers battling Hezbollah militants in southern Lebanon, villages should be flattened by the Israeli air force before ground troops moved in.


He added that Israel had given the civilians of southern Lebanon ample time to quit the area and therefore anyone still remaining there could be considered a Hezbollah supporter.

"All those now in south Lebanon are terrorists who are related in some way to Hezbollah," Mr Ramon said.

[Zodiak]

99. More than anything

this particular statement has tipped the hand of the Israelis on this war. After making such a statement, furtehr excuses that civilians are not intentionally targeted fall upon deaf ears. The entire strategy is to target anything standing, which includes places where civilians are housed. Even if a bomb is released in ignorance of who will be killed by it, the overall strategy still necessitates widespread civilian death.

And this is also precisely why this war's basic premise is unequivicably a war-crime.

Israel has crossed the line into ethnic cleansing. They have shamed themselves as badly as the US and the the former Soviet Union in being a belligerent agressor with no sense of decency or humility.

On edit: to the second person who responded, you are on my ignore list. I do not discuss issues with peple who do not debate in good faith.

[frankieT]

102. Exactly

They want to "clean-up" South Lebanon. It always been their policy of "collective punishments" against arabs. Israel thinks that it can find it's way be beating the s*** out of these people until they submit, there is some racist premise in this: arabs are like animals who understand only violence and death threats.

[HongKonger]

116. Well Said

Or am I allowed to say that?

[PCIntern]

107. Very poetic...

BTW, I haven't heard anything form you on the posts above about the IDF report and the sneering posts about having fun whilst killing children. Are you on this?

[funnymanpants]

112. No accident: Israel had planned this treatment of civilians (pt 2)

Israel had plans to exercise collective punishment on the Lebanon's all along. It wanted to punish the civilians in hopes of turning them against Hezbollah. The bombing in Quana is part of that campaign.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/24/AR2006072400807.html

The history of perennial overoptimism about air power is worth keeping in mind as we consider some of the arguments heard in Jerusalem and Washington that the Israeli bombing campaign will put Hezbollah out of business or somehow lead the Lebanese people and army to turn against it. According to retired Israeli army Col. Gal Luft, the goal of the campaign is to "create a rift between the Lebanese population and Hezbollah supporters." The message to Lebanon's elite, he said, is this: "If you want your air conditioning to work and if you want to be able to fly to Paris for shopping, you must pull your head out of the sand and take action toward shutting down Hezbollah-land."

In case the intention isn't clear, Luft is stating that Israel hopes to inflict pain on all Lebanonese in hopes of turning the "elite" (the non-Hezbollah supporters) against Hezbollah itself. Luft is stating that Israel is not using selective bombing to just target Hezbollah rocket launchers; just the opposite--Israel is trying to make Lebanon hell for everyone.

Certainly, given this quote, one cannot believe that the IDF is exercising caution and care to protect civilians.

[allemand]

113. Reaction by Lebanon's prime minister Fouad Siniora:

Out of respect for the souls of our innocent martyrs and the remains of our children buried under the rubble of Qana, we scream out to our fellow Lebanese and to other Arab brothers and to the whole world to stand united in the face of the Israeli war criminals.

The persistence of Israel in its heinous crimes against our civilians will not break the will of the Lebanese people. There is no place on this sad morning for any discussion other than an immediate and unconditional ceasefire as well as the international investigation into the Israeli massacres in Lebanon now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5228422.stm

[Scurrilous]

121. MK Itzik: IDF is world's most moral army

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3283626,00.html

"Knesset Speaker MK Dalia Itzik of Kadima said Sunday that the Israel Defense Forces is the "most moral army in the world."

Itzik regretted the killing of civilians in an Israeli air strike in Qana, adding that Hizbullah is holding the Lebanese people hostage."



IDF: Most Moral Army in the World.™

[ckramer]

124. How could America continue to give 2 billion to Israel every year?

How could Americans support Israel killing civilians?

[BeHereNow]

128. What, did you miss what happened in New Orleans?

Civilians are not important to empires.
Israel is useful to the empire's hegemoic aims-
therefore they get the money, not for their people
mind you, for their military and other global elite Israelis.
Civilians anywhere in the world that are not
useful to the empire?
Bah!
Let them choke on cake crumbs.
BHN

[funnymanpants]

129. Actually, 5 billion

The Israeli lobby always downplays the amount. But when you count weapons and everything else, the US gives 5 billion to Israel.

[ckramer]

125. To quote Sam Flakey

"It will be USA-Israel versus the world. And the neoClowns can preach about "America sides with God, not with the international community".

Don't you see how you're getting screwed in America?

Zionists get mega-welfare cheques from the USA taxpayers, and use that money to buy Washington Republicans and Democrats, and Media outlets, and get you bogged down in some vague "war on terror", and putting fear into Americans, etc reducing rights, moving towards faschism, the military business machine, the oil, the religion, don't you guys see what's happening? Come on, American politicians have no balls whatsoever, will put their own selfish (and their party's) interests before the interests of American citizens? The whole world is laughing at you, don't you feel a bit stupid?"

[NurseLefty]

132. Escalation of Conflict is EXACTLY what Karl Rove wants.

God, where do I start with this? ANOTHER act of stupidity on the part of Israel, brutality of killing civilians/children aside. If the 'logic' is to kill a few Hezbollah members with a rocket launcher, Israel is actually creating THOUSANDS of new Hezbollah recruits by oh, oops, 'accidentally' blasting an apartment building full of INNOCENT CHILDREN. Can anyone blame one being consumed with anger and hate after losing a child or other family member this way? Does Israel expect someone who has to bury their baby daughter after an 'errant' bombing to say, "Oh, that's okay, I accept your apology. No big deal." NO. If this happened to ANY of us, you would want to have who is ever responsible to be held accountable.

Politics is insignificant compared to this tragic loss of life but is unavoidably intertwined. With this thread and others relating to the recent escalation in Lebanon, something is playing out that is surely making Karl Rove smile. The fissures among the Democrats are beginning to show. Elected Democrats dare not say one thing critical about anything Israel does, as not to offend pro-Israel Democrats. Yet there is a segment within the party that is willing to hold Israel accountable for its actions. An honest, open dialogue about this issue has yet to take place. The current escalation forces us to debate/argue about this. We do need to hash this out but GET THE STRATEGY? The more energy expended on this issue is less spent on retaking the Senate and House in November!
THAT is why I suspect BushCo does not want to push for a ceasefire. The more this drags on until November, the better for his power structure. Rule #1 for BushCo: the ends always justify the means!

(edit for grammar)

[Poll_Blind]

133. What a nightmare... n/t

PB

[earth mom]

134. How many more innocents must die, you warmongers, how many?!

:cry: