Iran hardline forces readying for revenge on Israel

[sabra]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/OLI054783.htm

Iran hardline forces readying for revenge on Israel

TEHRAN, July 30 (Reuters) - Iran's hardline forces should ready themselves to take revenge on Israel and the United States for the offensive on Lebanon, the head of the Revolutionary Guards was quoted as saying on Sunday.

"The Basij and Revolutionary Guards should prepare to get even with the Zionists and Americans," Yahya Rahim-Safavi was quoted as telling Islamic militiamen by the conservative Fars news agency.

The Basij are volunteer Islamic militiamen.

"The timing of the this will be announced by the leader," he added.

[Gully Foyle]

1. Ya know

Everyone but the US and Israel come out on top and looking stronger politically.

[itzamirakul]

42. This is just more of that Israeli leadership bs that tries to drag

the U.S. into their battles. Iran has no reason to want to fight America. Israel is scared shitless of being alone in this battle so they have dragged us, with most American people kicking and screaming against it, into this continuing battle with them. This is an ongoing battle for dominance that Israel has with all of the oil regions in the area.

For a people who suffered the horrors of the ghetto and the concentration camps you would think the Israeli leadership would never bring this pain on others.

[bemildred]

2. These jingo blowhards really do get tiresome.

Persian, American, Israeli, Hezbullah, they all suck.

[Zynx]

3. We are being held hostage by extremists all over the world, including

at home.

[villager]

9. nutcakes everywhere rule the roost

How did we let this happen? How will the greater global "we" stand up to them before it's too late?

[saigon68]

41. here is the biggest NUTCAKE

[villager]

49. sure -- the biggest of a bad bunch, world-wide....

...and my question about sane people getting in back in control again remains...

[saigon68]

52. The Chimpanzee is still "Good to Go" for a while

[Buzz Clik]

4. ditto

[Buzz Clik]

5. The "revenge" aspect is curious.

They fund and arm Hezbollah, support and applaud their violent actions against Israeli civilians, and they suggest some sort of revenge? What bullshit.

[ECH1969]

6. Iran would kick Israel's ass

[Pavulon]

7. Considering history since 1946

I would give you very poor odds.

No navy, shit soviet era aircraft, pilots with poor training. No distributed command and control.

No clear path for armor. No ability to invade with landing craft. No ability to mass anything without being detected.

Israel has the ability to defend its self against iran.

[ECH1969]

8. Not against chemical weapons fired from rockets by Hizbollah

or other WMDs strategically placed in Israeli cities.

Unless Israel goes nuclear they would lose.

[Amonester]

10. If (the criminal neocons in) Israel ever start "losing" for real...

that's the only time they'd go nu-klu-er, methinks.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

11. Iran 'should prepare to fight Israel' (Iran's General Yahya Rahim Safavi)

THE head of Iran's Revolutionary Guards called on his troops today to "prepare themselves to get even" with Israel and the US, the semi-official Fars news agency reported.
"Iran's powerful Revolutionary Guards and Basij should prepare themselves to get even with Zionists and Americans," General Yahya Rahim Safavi was quoted as saying.

"The supreme leader will announce the time for this," he said, referring to Iran's top cleric and commander-in-chief, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

It was not clear if the comments represented the latest shot in what Iranian officials describe as an ongoing "psychological war" with Israel and the United States, or the public revelation of an actual order for Iranian troops to mobilise for war.

"We have to keep this sacred hatred of the enemies of Islam alive in our hearts until the time of revenge comes," the general was quoted as saying.

"I hope our nation can one day avenge the blood of innocent people in Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan," he said, adding: "I ask God to arouse the dignity of Muslims and destroy America, Israel and their associates".

more: http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,19966802-5005361,00.html

[BayCityProgressive]

12. Iran should prepare

to be a crater then. Are they really this stupid? They would be destroyed within days.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

13. Iran is allied with Russia...

And Israel has done as good a job of alienating herself as we did. If the entire ME decided Israel should disappear, it would.

This dog and pony show isn't about just a couple of feuding countries anymore.

[BeHereNow]

16. Exactly, and NOW even Jordan and Egypt , US lap dogs

are getting pissed off about what is happening in Lebanon.
ESPECIALLY after the massive civilian killing today-
It is entirely possible that the neocon plan is
about to crumble. The PEOPLE of the ME, if not the
governments, are getting fairly pissed off by the
hegemonic destruction by the US, UK and Israeli
neocon agenda. It may actually create
solidarities among the Arabs that the neocons never
anticipated- LARGELY due to the outrage over
the reckless killings of civilians in Lebanon AND IRAQ,
not to mention Afghanistan, by the US / Israeli military.

BHN

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

18. The more I read on it, I believe the UK is looking for an excuse to

distance itself from Bush's Neocon agenda.

[BeHereNow]

19. I think it more about appearances than anything.

They are in as deep as ever- but prefer to stay
behind the curtain with Poppy Bush and his friends.

Don't forget Poppy made a point of going on
record against his son's war, all the while
his buddies in the administration were getting
the green light to make the global elite, which
Poppy is King of, prepared to get richer.

BHN

[saigon68]

39. Jordan and Egypt , US lap dogs (They are REALLY Poodles)

Pampered, fed given the best military treats for free.

Yup after I saw the King of Jordan riding his Harley, I thought

"There goes Bush's Catamite."

[oberliner]

25. "If the entire ME decided Israel should disappear, it would?"

What exactly do you mean by "disappear" ?

[MGD]

37. And China nt

[BeHereNow]

14. You are forgetting China and Russia...

Iran is not the only place that could end up a crater.
China and Russia are the reason Iran has not been
cratered yet, so the question is, are the neocons
that stupid?
And as Americans, we should take careful note
of how little the KKKabal cared about the
civilians in New Orleans.
Think about it.

BHN

[confludemocrat]

20. I think not, Bay City Progressive

we need to wake up to the realization that US firepower alone will not win wars anymore, nor gain a lasting peace. The millions-strong forces of Iran can fight back, unlike the Iraqis. Any attempt to take on Iran will bring a firestorm internationally and domestically. The breast beating rhetoric about craters and such is empty talk. That is a nation of 80 million, with a high percentage of military age. The can be at the gates of Israel in no time flat, we don't have the money or munitions sufficient to "destroy" them in a matter of days much less over a longer term.

[megatherium]

28. Yes we do. Their armor wouldn't make it and infantry by itself wouldn't

get very far against our armor and other defenses. (We would very quickly (days) have complete control over the air and then we would destroy their armor rapidly using A10s and other weapons).

We would not be without allies in such a war either: I do not think the Sunnis and Arabs in general would appreciate a Persian invasion.

In the last event, there are tactical nuclear weapons available. Use of such weapons against Iran proper would be rightly considered to be an unforgivable war crime. But use of these weapons against invading forces on friendly territory would not be considered in the same light. This is why enhanced radiation bombs (neutron bombs) were developed: to use against Soviet armor columns in West Germany, where the towns are "only 2 or 3 kilotons apart," as the old line had it. The US has never said it would not be the first to use such weapons in such circumstances. Certainly the Israelis would not hesitate if their national survival were at stake.

on edit: slight improvements in my argument

[Amonester]

29. Methinks you're dreaming...

1. What would happen to the 130,000 US troops in the region? Do you think the neocon criminals care about them "stayin' alive?"

2. What would happen to the Saudis oil fields and tankers' ports? Do you think the BFEE's House of Saud would be ruined in (days) and the price of crude would what? Triple, quadruple?

3. Then what: A Total Collapse of the World's Current Economic System??

[megatherium]

43. All these things would happen. The US military would still be functional.

The scenarios we are talking about are based on the premise that Iran has decided to invade Israel. That isn't going to happen because no one actually wants the end of the world. I was just meaning to explain that the US military is equipped to deal with the military aspect of such a scenario.

[Hardrada]

30. What do you mean "we?"

[megatherium]

44. I meant the US military (in response to confludemocrat's post

claiming that the US military wouldn't be able to deal with Iran in case Iran attempted to invade Israel).

[confludemocrat]

48. Tom Clancy scenarios of hardware being all are BS

I hear mention from you of A-10 and other killing hardware as if they would operate in a vacuum. Get that out of you head megatherium, this will not be like a GD boardgame. Too many pieces to control. Israel the 4th largest and strongest military in the world and cannot do what it wants and cannot make much headway with what it tries except kill civilians and destroy Lebanons economy. Their incursions have not been like 1982, more like what drove them out in 2000. Just as all the razzle dazzle used in Iraq in March 2003 has not won that war, all the A-10s and various other unsustainably expensive weaponry will not win a ground war in the Middle East and the use of a neutron bomb is a fantasy.

[megatherium]

50. You're arguing that Israel and the US cannot win wars in

Lebanon and Iraq against my assertion that Iran cannot invade Israel. We are speaking past each other.

[confludemocrat]

58. Wrong. I am arguing that Iran cannot be prevented from 86ing Israel

by U. S. high tech weaponry, precision guided bombs, our great tanks, whatever great munitions we have and however well schooled our crack war colleges and officer schools are. Belief that we can "take-em out" as you first post said is mistaken and feeds the war notion thaty could very well lead to disaster. I listened to Walt Rodgers on CNN as the army was rolling through southern Iraq in March 2002, hearing him as most middle aged guys invariably do, whooping about the magnificent weaponry he was riding, practically having an orgasm about it, and being disturbed by how incautious he seemed about what troubles there could be by invading a country June 22, 1941-style, a country no outsider ever could control.

[megatherium]

59. I remember prior to the Iraq war hearing about how useless American

weaponry and tactics would be in that country. We heard how a lantern tied to a donkey at night would cause the US military to waste million-dollar missiles, and how sand would disable our helicopters, and so forth. But the US brought down the regime in a matter of weeks, done "on the cheap" by Rumsfeld with one-third the recommended amount of troops. So I think a war would go against Iran, although it would be a lot nastier and bigger, and we would be even less able to hold the country after the regime is brought down.

I suspect we will continue to disagree about this. But I think we both will agree that a war with Iran would be an unspeakable catastrophe. I just think Iran would lose more than Israel and the US. A lot more, barring the war going nuclear. (This is why I don't think it's actually going to happen. Both sides will saber-rattle and play proxy games, but will be very careful to avoid crossing any line that makes full open war unavoidable.) At any rate, my (weak) confidence that the US military would be able to bring down the regime in Iran shouldn't be mistaken for any enthusiasm for such a project. Unless Iran did something horrible (like mount a WMD attack against Israel) we shouldn't even think of initiating hostilities.

[poskonig]

26. Their goals are spiritual, not material.

Therefore yes. Google '12th Imam'

[wuushew]

51. I don't believe Israel could destroy the country or people of Iran

Based purely on the size and population of Persia, survival of the Iranian culture stands a much better chance then the comparitively small and densensly populated Isreal.

If we just consider the Jericho II missiles and warheads that gives us 50 missiles of 200kt yield each. Assuming that Iranian cities follow patterns development similar to the rest of the world then only the direct city centers would be destroyed with much of the blast deflected or absorbed by terrain or artifical structures.

Gamma radiation deaths and thermal/over-pressure causaulties would not extend more than a few miles from the center of the blast. I suppose the fallout casualities need to be assessed but that can be addressed in another thread.


Isreali nuclear arsenal http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/nuclear/wrjp442.html



Obviously, the bigger the weapon yield the larger the area of overpressure damage from the blast wave. But, notice that the damage range does not increase in a linear fashion with the more powerful explosions. For instance, comparing the 200 KT air burst with the five times more powerful 1 MT air burst, the range of moderate damage and initial fires increased from only 4.3 miles to 7.3 miles. This is because the reach of blast and fire effects varies as the cube root of the weapon yield ratio and the cube root of 5 is 1.71. So, instead of a five-fold increase or 500% we have only about a 70% increase in this comparison.




Regarding the Thermal Pulse that accompanies the thousand suns brighter flash, that represents 35% of the energy expended in a nuclear explosion, burns caused by this heat energy of the fireball can produce the most far reaching consequence of the immediate weapons effects. For our example above of the man-in-the-open, 2.2 miles from a 500 KT air detonation, fatal blast injuries would have served in most cases to put him out of his misery. The thermal pulse, travelling at the speed of light, would have already delivered lethal burns and his clothing would have burst into fire if truly exposed in the open. In fact, about 50% of those fully exposed to the fireball anywhere in the 2 psi or greater range would eventually die from the severity of their burns.

However, if there is fog or haze or any kind of opaque material or structure between people and the location of the fireball the effects of the thermal pulse can be greatly reduced. With medium haze it can be cut by 50% and with heavy fog down to even just 10%. So, smog in the big cities could actually be partly protective for once. Also, while it arrives at the speed of light and delivers most of it's energy within the first second, the larger the bomb the longer it'll take to deliver its full compliment of thermal energy, perhaps even several seconds. Quickly diving behind anything creating a shadow could be lifesaving.

http://www.radshelters4u.com/index.html#1a

[leveymg]

15. Everyone loses if Iran can't resist the temptation to retaliate .

This is all a game of provocation.

[cornermouse]

17. Is there another planet or an alternate universe we could move to?

:shrug:

[Amonester]

27. And if there is please tell us where we can make reservations OK?

Thanks!

I'd be glad to go there before all the greedy fools and religious extremists destroy what's left of this increasingly fragile planet Earth.

[joe_shmoe]

21. **PETITION AGAINST MILITARY ACTION AGAINST IRAN**

Iran = final straw for start of WWIII and the colapse of the world economy.


It is with grave concern that we observe the growing threat of a new U.S. war--this time against the people of Iran.

For a collection of articles and resources on this subject you can visit this link: http://reseaudesign.com/research/iran/iran_summery.html

I'm starting up a petition which I will be sending out to as many members of Congress as possible. I'm asking for help to get this signed by as many people, possible in the next month. Send it to as many people you can.

http://www.petitiononline.com/n0war1rn /


thanks,
J-shmoe

[Pavulon]

22. If they jump

they will receive a reaming from the air that makes lebanon look like a bad car accident.
No occupation no hearts and minds, just broken toys and death.

Iran would be wise to sit back, talk smack, and keep pulling hizbolla strings.

If they openly attack the US China nor Russia will step in.

[Hardrada]

31. I don't think we gain anything by your simplistic analysis.

It does not profit us nor improve the prospects of a just and equitable peace in the ME.

[JackORoses]

33. haven't you heard

Pavulon is a military genius.

He could beat Iran all by himself. He would simply dizzy them with his tactical logorrhea and convince them that they have no chance against such a formidable foe.

[Hardrada]

35. LOL!

Exactly.

[Pavulon]

54. You need some

Scott's for your mouth to wash out that bullshit.

DO you actually have a position or just post to comment on me. (lol emote silly face here)


What I posted is accurate. If they start an open war they will lose.

They will be bombed from the air, we will invoke the nato treaty if they attack us and Iran will be gw1 all over again.

Read a fucking book. Global security is free, pay for Jane's. But throwing in an empty post is what a jo does when he has nothing to say.

[hogwyld]

34. Who are you kidding???

China get it's oil from Iran umongst other, and Russia has significant trade with Iran. DOn't you think they would both be more than happy to supply Iran to crush the U.S. and Israel, and give the world a second chance? Our days of superiority are over, and we need to get back on the peace path.

[Pavulon]

55. 31 day notice

I think your analysis is off. Supply them with what. Carrier groups, strategic bombers, and cruise missiles. Iran is a 3rd world nation that fought with iraq for 10 years. We rolled over iraq in about 100 hours in gw1. We didn't stay to make friends.

Superiority has nothing to do with this.

They have 31 days to comply with a binding resolution. Lets see what happens now.

Iran should get smart take the russian deal, the european carrots, and sit back.

Who do you think the french defense minister was threatening with nuclear weapons earlier this year?

[MGD]

38. "If they openly attack the US China nor Russia will step in."

I agree with everything accept the above quote. China would become very involved in such a conflict in one way or another I think. We would definitely fuck Iran up bad though. If we do go to war w/ Iran, Americans had better be seriously prepared to adapt to the increases in gas prices that will result. Lucky for me, I can now walk to work.

[Marie26]

23. It looks

to me like Iran had Hizbollah capture those 2 soldiers. Iran is goading Hizbollah the same way we're goading Israel. It's like a football game where both countries can stand & cheer their "team" from the sidelines.

[daleo]

24. I read an article in my weekend paper entitled

"Bombing Iran: Pro and Con".

Who are we in the west to lecture anyone else about war-mongering talk?

[killbotfactory]

32. We reap what we sow...

What have we been sowing?

[PurityOfEssence]

46. "...Sacred hatred..."; now isn't that cute?

That really is what so much of this is all about: disagreements over religion that fuel cultural clashes for dominance of others.

Sometimes the real zingers shine through if one reads closely enough.

General Ya-ya really hit the mark this time.

[zonkers]

36. It's probably more bark than bite. I mean, seriously, Iran lobs a missle,

Israel torches the oil fields. Iran's screwed and probably way more than Israel because Iran has much more to lose financially. Even hardliners have to realize that if they do anything beyond arming Hezbollah, it would be a huge setback to their emergence as the numero uno player in the region. Much better to just keep doing what they are doing, serving up a daily dose of anti Israel vitriole, keep funding Hezbollah, keep destablizing the region, all to keep the price of oil high. Ka-ching.

[Gully Foyle]

40. um

How does this work. They stop their own people from going to Lebanon but still remain a threat?
It seems like Iran is acting REASONABLY right now.
But they are SPEAKING like both US parties.
Which reminds me of the South Park "rabble,rabble" scenes.

[Kailassa]

45. A very misleading headline on that OP

One man says the forces should ready themselves, ...
and the headline states the forces are readying themselves.

It's correctly quoted from Reuters, but it amounts to a lie on their behalf.

[AliceWonderland]

47. Yes, I noted that too --

It could be just that I'm more attuned lately, but it seems there are many misleading headlines around these issues.

[joe_shmoe]

53. **PETITION AGAINST MILITARY ACTION AGAINST IRAN**

Iran = final straw for start of WWIII and the colapse of the world economy and US Martial law.


It is with grave concern that we observe the growing threat of a new U.S. war--this time against the people of Iran.

For a collection of articles and resources on this subject you can visit this link: http://reseaudesign.com/research/iran/iran_summery.html

I'm starting up a petition which I will be sending out to as many members of Congress as possible. I'm asking for help to get this signed by as many people, possible in the next month. Send it to as many people you can.

http://www.petitiononline.com/n0war1rn /


thanks,
J-shmoe

[Eugene]

56. AP: Iran Cleric Calls for Hezbollah Weapons

Iran Cleric Calls for Hezbollah Weapons

The Associated Press
Tuesday, August 1, 2006; 7:23 AM

TEHRAN, Iran -- A senior cleric has called on Muslim states to provide weapons
to Hezbollah to fight Israel, an Iranian news agency reported Tuesday.

Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati, the hard-line head of the powerful Guardian Council,
was quoted by the semiofficial Iranian Students News Agency as saying that Islamic
states should arm Hezbollah in fighting Israel in Lebanon.

"Now, it is expected that Muslim states not spare any assistance to Hezbollah and
the Lebanese people, especially providing weapons, medicine and food," Jannati told
ISNA.

-snip-

Full article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/01/AR2006080100302.html

[yellowcanine]

57. Sounds like the Bush Middle East Democracy Project is working out well.

I have an idea. Now would be a good time to send Condi to the Middle East again to do a little shuttle diplomacy. Maybe this time she won't just make everyone mad at her. Could happen.