Lebanese army stops Israeli helicopters landing

[cal04]

The Lebanese army opened fire on Israeli helicopters trying to land near a town in the Bekaa valley, preventing them from setting down, Lebanese security sources and witnesses said.

The four helicopters appeared to be trying to land Israeli soldiers near the town of Yammouni, they said.

The helicopters flew away before Israeli warplanes launched air raids on the area, the sources said.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L30832182.htm

[panader0]

1. Quite a disturbing new development.

This gives Israel the green light to bomb any city they choose.

[Don Claybrook]

3. gallows humor, right?

sorry, sometimes it's hard for me to tell...Israel quite obviously feels it has carte blanche to bomb anything and anyone in Lebanon anytime they want to.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. Only in the sense that Israel takes 'green lights' that no-one else sees

Normally, an invasion of a country by another would be a signal for universal condemnation of it, and everyone eould understand why the Lebanese army defended their territory.

[adriennui]

7. what's up with you brits?

i was in london recently and it scares me.

[amandabeech]

10. In which ways was London scarey?

I would like to visit there in a couple of years, and am quite curious about your remarks.

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. Global warming?

Yes, it is scary when London is actually hot in summer, rather than tepid.

Seriously, I haven't the faintest idea what you mean. Maybe you should describe the symptoms you saw of something being 'up'.

[Scurrilous]

18. I think adriennui...

...was referring to Londonstan.

It's a city in Eurabia where the muzzies and dhimmis dwell.

Scary place!!:scared:

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. I was going to accuse you of a character smear

and then I looked up adriennui's recent posts. That seems as likely an explanation as anything.

[Ghost Dog]

26. Either that or all the surveillance cameras...

;-)

[AnOhioan]

8. I for one, do understand

The Lebanese Army threatened they would fight against Israel is the bombing campaign did not end. It has not ended, so the Lebanese Army is now involved. Hawks Olmert and Bush wanted a war, they got it.

[zreosumgame]

32. they seem to feel that way anyway

the "cease-fire" had a dumbaya-style signing atatement.

[ThomCat]

34. Were they sparing any cities before?

The maps of bombing targets looks like no place big enough to have a name has been spared.

[panader0]

2. Has the Lebanese army been involved to date?

Or has it just been Hezbollah? No TV here. I get my LBN from DU.

[Igel]

9. No, they've been subject to a few strikes by the IAF.

For reasons unstated.

If this is true, expect Siniora to do one of two things: say that it was rogue army elements (after all, Hezb has members in the military), or that it was the brave Lebanese army defending its territorial integrity.

The latter is only likely if Siniora believes he can hide behind Hezb, or if denouncing the troops would be seen as too much an offense against Lebanese, viz. Hezb's, honor and dignity--that's what all of this is about ... ultimately. Otherwise, Hezb scares him.

[54anickel]

23. Lebanon's PM thanks Hizbollah for its 'sacrifices'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2423087&mesg_id=2423294

BEIRUT: Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora thanked Hizbollah on Sunday for its "sacrifices" in its war against Israel.

"We are in a strong position and I thank the Sayyed for his efforts," Siniora said when asked about a Saturday statement by Hizbollah chief Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah calling on the government to take advantage of Hizbollah's steadfastness against Israeli military might.

"I also thank all those who sacrifice their lives for the independence and sovereignty of Lebanon," he added.

Siniora, a member of Lebanon's anti-Syrian coalition, has often been at odds with the Syrian-backed Hizbollah but the 19-day-old conflict appears to have brought the two sides closer together.

edit to add article link:
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1044557

[Zhade]

36. Hezbollah is killing civilians too, and is wrong to do so...

...yet one can understand why the Lebanese PM would thank Hezbollah - Israel IS invading, and Hezbollah is keeping the Israeli military from overrunning and fully occupying Lebanon.

This is a case of "any port in a storm".

[uppityperson]

4. wow, the Lebanese army?

well, guess they are getting more directly involved, IF this news is accurate.

[IndianaGreen]

11. What was Israel doing in the Bekaa Valley?

Trying to draw Syria into the war, so that the US could come in?

[goforit]

24. The US is already in. We just don't know about it.

[saigon68]

29. Israel is just one of two terrorist organizations at work here

[Zhade]

37. To be more accurate, the Israeli government.

I don't want those Israelis against this to feel they've been included in your statement. We must be fair.

[Ghost Dog]

27. That's a very good question.

edit: Maybe they were after some of that fine Leb Red or Leb Gold. :silly:

[ClintonTyree]

5. Now they'll bomb everything in sight..........

and many people and things NOT in sight so they can continue with their invasion. Lebanon has a right to defend itself but sometimes I think they'd be better off letting the Israelis carry out their incursions unopposed. The Israelis will be back with enough firepower to flatten the area and many more Lebanese civilians will become "collateral damage" because of it.

It's a sad, sick situation. And our leaders, our supposed leaders, are still taking a hands off approach to "diplomacy". There hasn't been any "diplomacy" from the White House. They've ignored the area completely and are still staying that course. They're too ignorant to do anything else. :mad:

[Warren Stupidity]

13. How dare the Lebanese army defend Lebanon from invaders?

They obviously have not read the memo.

[daleo]

14. It seems like someone wants a wider war

I sometimes wonder if Olmert has total control over the IDF. It seems like his job is to "express regrets" after events happen that shock and outrage most of the world (i.e. killing civilians, UN observers, etc.).

[tocqueville]

16. several military and political experts in France

appearing on diverse TV debates about the situation consider that Olmert and Peretz are not in total control. The IDF accepts only control from civilian leaders with a previous important military career like the previous ones.

[daleo]

17. That's interesting

I don't think that theory has been propounded much on this side of the pond. There has been talk that Olmert had to establish his "military leadership credibility", though, given that he didn't have significant military experience.

I presume he must have spent some time in the army, though, as Israel has a universal draft.

[tocqueville]

19. if you compare his military background

with all the former PMs, it's nothing.

Olmert served with the Israel Defense Forces in the Golani combat brigade. While in service he was injured and temporarily released. He underwent many treatments. Later he completed his military duties as a journalist for the IDF magazine BaMahane. During the Yom Kippur war he joined the headquarters of Ariel Sharon as a military correspondent. Already a Knesset member, he decided to go through an Officer's course, at the age of 35, in 1980.

interesting to know is the following :

Olmert's childhood included membership in the Beitar Youth Organization and dealing with the fact that his parents were often blacklisted and discriminated against due to their affiliation with Herut, the opposition to the long-ruling Mapai party.

Herut (Hebrew: חרות "Freedom") was the political party of the Revisionist Zionist movement in Israel.

Revisionist Zionism is a nationalist right wing tendency within the Zionist movement. The ideology was developed by Ze'ev Jabotinsky who advocated a "revision" of the "practical Zionism" of David Ben Gurion and Chaim Weizmann, which was focused on independent settlement of Eretz Yisrael (Great Israel).

Ideologically, Revisionism advocated the creation of a Jewish state on both sides of the Jordan River, that is, a state which would include the present-day West Bank and all or part of the modern state of Jordan, which was split off of Mandate Palestine as an Arab state later, in 1946. All three streams, Centrists who advocated a British-style liberal democracy, and the streams who would become Irgun and Lehi, supported Jewish settlement on both sides of the river (and so did some parts of Labour Zionism, such as Ben Gurion's Mapai party), but in many cases, differed on how this would be achieved. Jabotinsky wanted to gain the help of Britain, while Lehi and the Irgun wanted to conquer both sides independently of the British. The Irgun stream of Revisionism opposed power-sharing with Arabs. Jabotinsky's statements were ambiguous on the topic of "transfer" (expulsion of the Arabs). In some writings he supported the notion, but only as an act of self-defense, in others he argued that Arabs should be included in the liberal democratic society that he was advocating, and in others still, he completely disregarded the potency of Arab resistance to Jewish settlement, and stated that settlement should continue, and the Arabs be ignored. Most Zionist groups favored, tacitly, at least a partial transfer of the Arab population out of Mandatory Palestine in order to ensure a Jewish majority.

National-messianism vs. Jewish nationalism

Up to 1933, a number of leaders from the national-messianist wing of Revisionism were inspired by the fascist movement of Benito Mussolini. These leaders, such as Abba Achimeir, were attracted to fascism for its staunch anti-communism and its focus on rebuilding the glory of the past, which national-messianists such as Uri Zvi Greenberg felt had much connection to their view of what the Revisionist movement should be.

Abba Achimeir's ideology was based in Oswald Spengler's monumental study on the decline of the West, but his Zionist orientation caused him to adapt its ultimate conclusions. Achimeir's basic assumption was that liberal bourgeois European culture was degenerate, and deeply eroded from within by an excess of liberalism and individualism. Socialism and communism were portrayed as "overcivilized" ideologies. Fascism on the other hand, like Zionism, was a return to the roots of the national culture and the historical past. According to Achimeir, Italian Fascism was not anti-Semitic or anti-Zionist, whereas communist ideology and praxis were intrinsically so.

He also developed a favorable attitude toward fascist praxis and its psycho-politics, such as the principle of the all powerful leader, the use of propaganda to generate a spirit of heroism and duty to the homeland, and the cultivation of youthful vitality (as manifested in the fascist youth movements). Achimeir joined the Revisionist movement in 1930, but before joining he wrote a regular column entitled "From the Notebook of a Fascist" in the unaffiliated but pro-Revisionist magazine Doar Hayom. He crafted his pro-fascistic views in these columns, and also wrote an article in 1928 titled "On the Arrival of Our Duce" to celebrate Jabotinsky's visit to Palestine, and propose a new direction for the Revisionist movement, more in line with Achimeir's views. (Segev, Tom, The Seventh Million: Israelis and the Holocaust pg 23.)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionist_Zionism

those people have a very, very troubled background, least to say

[Hoping4Change]

33. Thanks for posting this.

I have recently thought that Israel is looks more and more fascistic. The fact that there has been this strain in its history is disturbing.

[Ghost Dog]

28. Yes, that also appears to be the view from Spain,

and that I've heard coming from the left and peace camp in Israel itself.

[drduffy]

15. Not a 'mistake', not 'ignorance', not 'stupidity' not an

'error'.......

This thing has been planned for a while now. It is part of the neocon military adventurism..... It has a real chance lead us right into ww III. I know many here share that belief..... it is just that I feel it is disinfo when words like those above are used.

Oh, and it was not about two soldiers being -captured- (not kidnapped) and the tank ran into a mine. Differentiate the neocon/corporate media spin from the actual events. The catalyst - two soldiers captured - was well planned by the neocons.

[David__77]

21. Finally...

I was wondering if the Lebanese army would lift a finger to defend Lebanon against its war enemy. Israel has turned all of Lebanon into a unified, anti-Israel front. The government now thanks Hezbollah for its military efforts.

[smacky44]

22. Does Lebanon not have the right to defend itself?

[goforit]

25. Well Forrest Gump glad to see you on the DU!

LOL!!
Love to kid yah!

[LostinVA]

30. That's what I was wondering

Some people are acting like this is some type of affront... maybe the Lebanese are getting tired of their country being raped.

[Mr_Spock]

31. I would hope so.

This is getting ridiculous - Israel needs to stop acting like the bully or they will teach the bullied that they must be tougher to compete. They need to start showing some common sense and compassion.

[Zhade]

35. Absolutely zero sympathy for the IAF.

They should know that invading another country tends to put that country on the defensive, and respond appropriately (unlike the IAF, which indiscriminately bombs civilian areas).

I'd prefer no one gets hurt, of course, but I'm not going to pretend the IAF are victims here.

(And to preempt bullshit libelous accusations: this is not supporting Hezbollah, so don't even try that stupid fucking argument. Thank you in advance for not resorting to cheap b*s*ian "with us or the terrorists" strawmen.)