Congressional Democrats echo Bush's defense of Israel

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"While President Bush routinely faces criticism from congressional Democrats over the Iraq war and his domestic policies, there's been little criticism over his stance on Israel's campaign against Hezbollah in southern Lebanon.

That has freed him to stand firm against growing international pressure for an immediate cease-fire.

Even as much of the world expressed outrage Sunday over an Israeli airstrike that killed more than three dozen Lebanese children, a leading Democrat echoed Bush's defense of Israel.

"I have no criticism of the president on this issue because I think he is doing the right thing," Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., told CNN. "I know some in the world have called for an immediate cease-fire. But that says Hezbollah has a gun to Israel's head; let's let them continue to keep the gun there, which they can use at will. It's just not fair to Israel."

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/15159997.htm

[Ms. Clio]

1. let me be the first to say

Fuck Chuck.

[madfloridian]

3. Then you will have to fuck them all....

They are standing with Israel.

Don't just attack Schumer, attack all of them.

We screwed Israel completely by attacking Iraq, made them much less safe.

Yet so many Democrats voted for it, you really don't think they will go against it. Israel is in real trouble right now. Unless they keep killing civilians they can not win militarily.

We are big deep trouble also. You are not going to find a single Democrat to stand up for a group that is considered terrorist. Not now, anyway.

It is either keep killing or lose, and it is our story as much as theirs. And it is all very sad.

[papau]

5. I agree n/t

n/t

[madfloridian]

21. Well, you are the only one.

No one else is.

[smacky44]

10. I will attack all of them that I can at the ballot box. I hope others

will too.

[madfloridian]

12. Then do it.

Go out and loudly announce it. Let the GOP keep control. No difference, right?

[IA_Seth]

112. I agree.

I've always hated one-issue voters, but now I know how it feels to be completely UNABLE to vote for someone that doesn't represent something felt so deeply.

I will NOT vote for anyone that supports this shit...period. Whatever the consequence, my heart, my mind, and my conscience will not allow me to let someone represent me that supports Israel unconditionally.

[partylessinOhio]

13. Lose? Kill more or Lose what? That is insane.

Try peace, give it a chance.




All we are saying,
Is give peace a chance.

John Lennon

[madfloridian]

14. Ok, if you don't like it vote Republican.

DU: the official "fuck Democrats" forum.

[madfloridian]

18. You did not get what I said, did you?

Read my post again. A lot of people are in agreement on this. We are in a dangerous place now, and there is really no way out for a country that is right in the middle of it.

You are NOT going to find Democrats celebrating Hezbollah.

[lumpy]

53. Who in hell is celebrating Hezzbollah?

Your bias is showing. Bias against stopping the bloodshed. Mad is correct.

[Zhade]

54. Criticizing Israel for wanton killing of innocent Lebanese...

...is NOT celebrating Hezbollah.

That's a pile of bullshit right there.

[madfloridian]

71. You are not reading what I said either.

Go read a bill that passed, H.R. 4681, and search for a resolution on Hezbollah also. Maybe under Boehner..

DU is always either or for or against with no middle ground, no real thought....and you are accusing me of that because I tried to show the difficulties that are involved.

If you think that of me, then all my years here are in vain.

[Zhade]

117. Then please explain what you mean.

NT!

[saigon68]

105. Israel is one of two terrorist organizations at work here

I have little respect for them any more

[Ms. Clio]

31. They are going to lose whether they keep killing or not

Check out Wolcott and Billmon.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[partylessinOhio]

7. Yes, I would add:

F*ck all the Democrats that support this carnage.

[BobRossi]

9. Truth will not be tolerated on this forum..

Nor by any other representative of the DLC.

[harun]

33. Not all of them support it but most do.

Righteous people like Conyers don't support this nonsense. Here's the Democrats in the House that voted "Nay":

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2006/roll391.xml

Abercrombie (Hawaii)
Conyers (Michigan)
Dingell (Michigan)
Kilpatrick (Michigan)
McDermott (Washington State)
Rahall (West Virginia)
Stark (California)

Paul (Texas, Republican)

Kucinich abstained.

[tabasco]

45. I second that. A disgrace to our Nation that more have not stood up!

It is a massacre of civilians!

This is an outrage!!

IRAQ - - and now Lebanon - -

WHEN WILL THE NEOCON CHICKENHAWK NIGHTMARE END??

[Zhade]

56. Indeed.

If one won't condemn the pointless killing of children - no matter who does it - one isn't human.

[saigon68]

20. Chuck is a worthless DINO and a tool of those on the crusade

The world is a big place.

When guys like dicktater (sic) Musharraf start falling and the nukes start flying, you can thank Chuck.

[lastknowngood]

2. And let me say Fuck the Dem's who don't! I have been abandoned

by my party. I stay home this fall.

[madfloridian]

6. Then stay home.

That is one thing that is not going to change for a long time.

The Democrats are not going to side with a terrorist group. Period. Bottom line.

So fuck them all if you wish and stay home.

It doesn't matter anymore.

[54anickel]

23. "It doesn't matter anymore. "

At times it certainly seems that they have completely given up even attempting to maintain the facade of a 2 party system. The plutocracy is showing through - the nation is run by corporations and monied special interests. Not that this is anything new - just that they barely even try to hide it anymore. They determine the winning candidates for each party, doesn't really matter to them which one wins - both are in their hip pocket, attached to their wallets.

Democrat or Republican, doesn't matter anymore. How can anyone from either pary be considered a leader of the developed world. Our nation has lost all credibility with the majority of the world. Looks to me like our future lies in becoming the Military Industrial Complex we once so feared becoming. Neocons and PNAC have won - game, set, match.

I doubt I'd stay home and not vote. I may toss it away on a 3rd party or maybe write-in "None of the above"....but I won't stay home - that's one victory I will not give them.

[lastknowngood]

26. Yes all those kids today sure looked like terrorist.

n/t

[unkachuck]

52. just because....

....you don't support Israels actions, doesn't mean your pro Hezbollah....maybe it just means you're against needless loss of life....

....Dems should stand for something more than the slaughtering of the innocent, no matter who does it....

[Zhade]

57. Being against civilian deaths is not siding with terrorists.

For fuck's sake, what a cowardly and dishonest argument to make.

[The Stranger]

65. I'm sure they said the same thing one time about Joe Leiberman.

Never underestimate the power of an idea whose time has come.

[IndianaGreen]

91. But by siding with Bush & Olmert, the Democrats have sided with terrorism

and have also aligned themselves with Bolton and his opposition to ceasefires.

The Lebanese are under attack, and they cry for help from the West. If we don't help them, we condemn ourselves to a similar fate!

[lumpy]

97. You want us to take 'your ' side in this

atrocious war. I do not wish to take 'sides' Most of us on this forum are simply not going to do it. I do not pledge Allegiance to any country or organization that uses the killing of innocent people to settle disputes or acts of vengence. Period.

[Bluzmann57]

8. If you choose not to vote in November

Then please make it known why, not here in DU, but in the USA. See, people who bitch and don't vote are useless in my book. So at least tell the country why you don't want to vote.

[lastknowngood]

27. I will tell anybody who will listen and many who wont. This the second

of the shrubs 6 wars he wants and the Dem's are cheering him on.

[madfloridian]

11. So is DU the official "fuck Democrats" board?

Just wondering.

They can not side with a terrorist organization. I may wish they would speak out, but it does not matter what I say on this. We have screwed the world, and we have put Israel in more danger than ever.

[partylessinOhio]

17. This is AMERICA not Israel.

[madfloridian]

19. You don't seem to be reading my posts well.

I am sorry about that. If you wish to do so, ok. If you don't, then don't.

[lastknowngood]

29. I only;y wish that were true. we are captured by a few rich people

n/t

[lumpy]

51. No one with a conscience should be taking

sides. It isn't an either or situation. No one has to take sides with a terrorist organization if there is to be a cease fire decision. Disgusting that a US Congressman would support more bloodshed. It is apparent that some desire Lebanon to be defeated and dismantled and left in pieces to become bargained over like a piece of merchandize. To think that some Congress people are throwing in with the PNAC is treacherous.

[Zhade]

59. She's using the same "with us or the terrorists" bullshit the neocons use.

Disgusting!

[madfloridian]

69. Do you really think that?

You really don't see that what some here are doing is demanding the impossible?

That is so sad for you to think that of me.

[Zhade]

116. I think you've made some comments that lean that way, yes.

I also see that some are blowing this out of proportion. The two don't cancel each other out.

[The Stranger]

67. I think you'll find the propaganda and rhetoric don't have purchase here.

Israel's bombing innocents who never had anything to do with Hezbollah was an serious error in judgment. Some have been saying this from the very start.

[madfloridian]

74. I have my profile enabled. I know what the board is about.

I can't see yours, so I assume you really know I am NOT posting propaganda, just saying that.

Oh, boy, there really is no middle ground in trying to understand what is going on. This is scary to me that this place refuses to see both sides.

[Ms. Clio]

83. I do see your point, I think

but can't some Democrats denounce the wanton and indiscriminate violence, anyway? Some of them have opposed the Iraq war -- why should this be so different?

[madfloridian]

84. I would like that also.

But look at it this way. We did it, we have put Israel in an untenable position. We have done the same to all of Europe and the middle east. I am sure there are Democrats who care, but I wonder if there are not a whole lot bigger powers at play now that keep them from it.

Read the links in my posts below which says reading material. We all know that 34 House Dems wrote Dean when he said not to take sides. I think the letter was the tip of the iceberg.

Remember they can pass anything they want in the House now, by suspending the rules.

[Ms. Clio]

85. I did see that, thanks for posting it

the letter in particular highlights a disgraceful episode.

[lumpy]

99. You are wrong, we see the middle ground.

and it is frought with inconsistencies, convolutions, cross purposes, greed, ethnic/religious differences, lies, injustices and blood, It appears to me that you are either for or against, no middle ground or no real thought. The grievences of both sides are there to see and we are not blind. The way to peace lies not in more killing and destruction. The US becomes the aggressor against justice and peace if the warpath is continued to be followed.

[madfloridian]

109. So now I am pro-war? This is just amazing, really.

You made my point for me after all. To most in this thread there is only one side that is right. You will not even look at both sides of it.

[The Stranger]

107. Calling people who oppose innocents being murdered "supporting terrorism"

is a common neocon tactic. It is what John Ashcroft, Dick Cheney and other fascists do. When you post something like that, we spot it and call it out pretty quickly.

It doesn't really have anything to do with your profile or what about it has been enabled.

[AllyCat]

75. I don't remember (seriously):

What was Israel's position on *'s illegal war in Iraq? Did they take a side? I can't remember what happened.

I see your point Madfloridian, but the destruction of innocent life, particularly little children who cannot defend themselves is immoral, repugnant, inhuman, and makes me cry. I think about my son and being in the position of those parents. My heart breaks, as does everyone here on this board.

With no answer as to how to end this mess, I can only conclude that a cease-fire is the only morally acceptable solution at this time.

I'm appalled that anyone supported this horrible bill, Democrat or Republican.

I'm sorry you're getting so much flak. I don't agree with you, but I suspect many here are (including you) are thinking about those kids and crying with each of their parents.

[madfloridian]

79. I don't have a side. I am trying to understand.

But thanks for the nice remarks.

I would imagine that all of Europe is terrified right now because of what we have done in Iraq.

Our Dems destroying their careers by speaking out too much right now will not keep the turmoil from spreading.

I am not pro-Israel at all. I am not either. I just hate knee-jerk when they rammed bills through.

[acmavm]

15. Then it's way past time the opportunistic fucks heard from the people

who allowed them to become CONGRESSIONAL democrats.

[madfloridian]

16. That's right, you vote Republican. That will show them.

Way to go.

[Little Star]

22. I will be holding my nose but,

I'll be voting Democrat even though they make me sick to my stomach. Fuck all of the war lovers in both parties! I am allowed to be mad at them aren't I? Its only a little off lockstep to say fuck them all.

[lumpy]

55. And I say fo hell with the war lovers who

post on this forum. Not worth giving a nod.

[lastknowngood]

30. Can you continue to support the same people when they cheer on

the Iran war, the Syrian war, the Labia war, the Sudan war?

[lumpy]

100. I would only vote for the Republican

who was and is against the war in Iraq. But I don't know of any. Sam with those that call for a cease fire in Israel/Lebanon. But I haven't heard of any. Same with Democrats.

[acmavm]

104. Where in the hell does it say in my post anything about voting

republican?

[gully]

39. Ther e are more than 200 congressional dems, this article mentions TWO.

We need to stop being "played" by those who wish to divide.

[joemurphy]

24. It seems to me that Dems could sign on to Kucinich's position

--i.e., favoring a cease fire -- without being "soft on terrorism". Only a real bozo would conclude that Israel has really done anything telling against Hezbollah as a result of this fiasco.

I would think that Dems could argue that this operation (apparently endorsed without any Congressional imput by Bush/Cheney) has drastically undercut our support with the Iraqi Shias; has made the U.S. an aggressor in the eyes of the world (by reason of our opposition to a cease fire); really screwed up the Lebanese democracy (by blowing away infrastructure; creating an environmental catastrophe on the the Lebanese beaches; and fomenting support for Hezbollah among a displaced populace of 800,000+) and poisoned Lebanese governmental relations with the U.S. and Israel (due to the human "collateral damage").

This whole fiasco is a great big political opportunity for the Dems. But no one has the courage to raise one peep about how ham-handedly it was conducted by our illustrious Republican leadership. It baffles me why we are so timid sometimes. One can be supportive of Israeli security without supporting something as stupid as this operation.

[Ms. Clio]

34. I agree n/t

[54anickel]

44. This "operation" has put our troops in Iraq in even greater danger. And

now, thanks to Bushco, they are all rounded up into a nice little bundle in Baghdad. Let's hope Bushco stops all this uniting he's been accomplishing lately.

[Zhade]

60. One word why: AIPAC.

Scared of not being able to take legal bribes anymore if they speak up for the dead children on both sides.

[joemurphy]

66. Sadly, I think you're right. n/t

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bling bling]

35. But what DO the Democratic voters want? Apparently, they want to lose.

All I ever see discussions on is what we DON'T want or on issues that 1/2 of us disagree with the other 1/2 about, each side accusing the other of not "really being democrats."

I do NOT see a unified party in the Democrats. I blame the elected Dems mostly because they aren't unified and because they're weak. But the democratic base (on DU anyway) is a chaotic mess. A disaster, really. Instead of talking about our issues, whatever those are, we scream at each other and make loud and public declarations that we won't be voting for Dems in our own party.

Honestly, the one thing I seriously think many of the Democrats on DU want is to lose. We'd rather let the Republicans destroy our country and complain about it then do what it takes to get our party in office. Our leaders are imperfect, so to spite them, let's let the wacko-fundy-freaks stay in power. The thing is, our leaders are sitting pretty with their fat paychecks and fat pensions. If this country goes to shit our current leaders will barely notice. So we're not really hurting them, even if we foster their defeat. We're hurting everybody BUT them.

This spiteful attitude is like the old chinese proverb:

"Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die."

What a mess.

[54anickel]

41. "the democratic base (on DU anyway) is a chaotic mess"....

Perhaps because the board has it roots in being a discussion board for "Progressives" and not just Democrats. So it's not necessarily what you referred to as a "democratic base".

[bling bling]

70. I'm starting to see that.

Then again, maybe it's just my problem. Maybe it only looks chaotic to me.

[confludemocrat]

43. So it's our party, right or wrong? And please stop trivializing an honest

and yes heated difference of opinion on a NEW bloody and distastrous war path as a symptom of "wanting to lose", that's just a huge disservice to every one here. Grow the fuck up.

[Zhade]

61. Harsh, but agreed.

NT!

[bling bling]

63. Grow the fuck up?

That was uncalled for.

I wasn't referring to the middle east. I was referring to the arguments about elected Dems and focusing our hatred on them (Clinton, Obama, for example) instead of focusing on issues. It was a response/question to the person that *I was responding to* who mentioned something about why don't Dems don't get what we want the same way repubs do. It got me thinking. My response was just the formation of those thoughts. It was my opinion. No need for you to freak out about it.

I firmly believe that all the infighting and hatred of Dems is hurting our party's chances. I don't see how you or anyone else couldn't also see that if you think about it. I seriously feel that way, I'm not being snarky. I feel that if you want Dems to win, stop attacking Dems until after the election, otherwise I feel like you want Dems to lose. If you feel differently, fine. That's still my opinion, unless you say something that causes me to reformulate my opinion. But attacking me with nasty "grow the fuck up" comments is only turning me off of listening to whatever your side of the discussion is ---- thus, you have totally proved my whole point about why the hatred we express towards our own team is bad for our party.....that is, IF, you care about winning.

[confludemocrat]

90. No, upon reading your post, it was called for n/t

if the Dems can't get it right, then DUers can in good conscience go after them, and attributing the word "hatred" to the distaste and even outrage at Clintons and Obamas shortcomings is really in the same vein as the kind of thinking that made me say what I did to you. It's not only about Dem party chances. Putting ALL the burden on citizens (as voters) for what can and has gone politically wrong is getting old. These pols dire failings are more and more being seen by all as the problem, and that is emerging in small way with Lamont vs Lieberman.

[bling bling]

106. Ok. Screw you then. n/t

You are helping to make my party lose. You are as bad, then, as the republicans. Who needs you?! Not the dems.

[savemefromdumbya]

28. Gosh we must get the Jewish vote huh?

[ckramer]

32. Chuck Schumer? Haha, there's no surprise here

And Hillary too, where are you hiding?

Republicans within Democrats. Shame shame shame!

[mom cat]

36. Start calling your congress critters and let them know what you

think.

[joemurphy]

47. Good place to start. I'm sending my people copies

of all the articles I can find about Cheney's giving a green light to the Israelis to launch their "incursion".

To me, this is another American policy blunder of the highest order.

[mom cat]

115. And our dems, of all people should not take the bait.

[Larkspur]

37. The family of the kidnapped/captured soldiers asked the Israeli PM

not to use military force in retaliation for the kidnapping/capturing of the Israeli soldiers.

The Israeli PM ignored them and now Israel, having failed to decimate Hezbollah, is in deep international political trouble.

[gully]

38. There are over 200 congressional democrats, have they all been polled?

:eyes:

Give me a break, only TWO such democrats are sighted in this article.

[Zhade]

62. A point worth considering.

NT!

[BooScout]

102. Unfortunately they have been....

In the form of a vote to support Israel. The vast majority of our elected Democrats support Israel.Only a few voted nay or present.

It's not really surprising to me. A recent CNN poll regarding the I/P issue had 57 percent of Americans supporting Israel,4 percent supporting Palestine and 39 percent supporting neither side at all (I don't have figures for Israel/Hizbollah). The demographics of America is not the same as that of DU. DU is on the whole a liberal melting pot.....and folks here are generally much better educated on the issues than the average American voter.

[gully]

111. How many people here have read that controversial legislation?

To my understanding the vote said essentially "Israel has a right to defend itself?"

I think to be fully educated on this we have to continually consider the fact that many wish to divide us.

[confludemocrat]

40. Once again, lots of Dems endorse Bush blood spilling in Middle East

that's real good, endorse Bush "standing firm" against all reason and decency.

[Bluzmann57]

42. A question about Schumer and Rodham/Clinton

They are both Senators from New York which has a huge Jewish population which presumably voted for them and expect representation, so why should they (Schumer and Rodham/Clinton) worry overly much about the rest of us out here in the heartland? After all, they are supposed to represent the people of New York who elected them to allegedly look out for them. The Senators from Iowa (well, ok, Harkin) try to look out for us, so why shouldn't the Senators from New York represent New Yorkers? Not sticking up for anybody, just asking a question.

[IndianaGreen]

46. There is going to be a nasty fight at the Democratic Convention

The usual plank that rubber stamps whatever Israel does, will be fought by those that want a change in Middle East policy.

[leftchick]

48. I don't know

I am really losing hope that there is an actual difference in Democratic Foreign policy vs Repuke foreign policy.

[joemurphy]

49. That article that you posted a few days ago that the Mods

deleted is now up on Daily Kos

<http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/7/27/114322/811>

Thought you might be interested. Keep the faith.

[leftchick]

50. thank you joe

I have no idea why it was disappeared. :(

[IndianaGreen]

68. Excellent article, thanks for the link

I am sure the Kossacks will appreciate it.

[lumpy]

101. We know who is in charge of the Plan

for the future of the Mideast, Cheney, Olmert, Netanyahu, Wm. Kristol, probably Rumsfeld and various othe warmongers with blood in their eyes and the Mideast the prize. The wonderful Crusade is on the march. And to believe this whole blood letting wasn't planed??? Fah! These SOBs are effectively planning our future also, more war, no peace. These bastards want to press history to the breaking point.

[JackNewtown]

73. What Dems dissent on the bipartisan I/P policy?

I expect the Democratic Party position in 2008 to be exactly like the Dems of 1998, 1988, 1978, etc.

It is sad--and costly to our national interests--to have no debate on the very important I/P policy. How many pro-Palestinian editorials do you see, for instance? Our lopsided policy severely damages our anti-terror efforts but we can't even have a discussion about this in the mainstream media or even within the Democratic Party.

[IndianaGreen]

82. Not anymore! Too much blood has been spilled in Iraq, Lebanon and

the Occupied Territories. Even Former Ambassador and Democratic Leader George Mitchell, no leftist he, was saying on TV tonight that we needed to resolve the Palestinian issue if we are to have any hope of bringing peace to the region.

It won't be just the progressives, but the real-politik Democrats that recognize we can't go on as we have in the past.

[Poll_Blind]

87. I really hope those people will have invitations. I really do. n/t

PB

[NurseLefty]

58. This Conflict is EXACTLY What Rove Wants!

(I posted this in another thread... gotta say HOORAY for my Rep. McDermott for being one of the courageous 8 who voted against the resolution...)

God, where do I start with this? ANOTHER act of stupidity on the part of Israel, brutality of killing civilians/children aside. If the 'logic' is to kill a few Hezbollah members with a rocket launcher, Israel is actually creating THOUSANDS of new Hezbollah recruits by oh, oops, 'accidentally' blasting an apartment building full of INNOCENT CHILDREN. Can anyone blame one being consumed with anger and hate after losing a child or other family member this way? Does Israel expect someone who has to bury their baby daughter after an 'errant' bombing to say, "Oh, that's okay, I accept your apology. No big deal." NO. If this happened to ANY of us, you would want to have who is ever responsible to be held accountable.

Politics is insignificant compared to this tragic loss of life but is unavoidably intertwined. With this thread and others relating to the recent escalation in Lebanon, something is playing out that is surely making Karl Rove smile. The fissures among the Democrats are beginning to show. Elected Democrats dare not say one thing critical about anything Israel does, as not to offend pro-Israel Democrats. Yet there is a segment within the party that is willing to hold Israel accountable for its actions. An honest, open dialogue about this issue has yet to take place. The current escalation forces us to debate/argue about this. We do need to hash this out but GET THE STRATEGY? The more energy expended on this issue is less spent on retaking the Senate and House in November!
THAT is why I suspect BushCo does not want to push for a ceasefire. The more this drags on until November, the better for his power structure. Rule #1 for BushCo: the ends always justify the means!

[IndianaGreen]

64. Listen Democrats: Iraq's Grand Ayatollah Al-Sistani wants ceasefire!

In a very important thread started by allemand here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2424015

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq's top Shiite cleric demanded an immediate cease-fire in Lebanon, warning Sunday that the Muslim world will "not forgive" nations that stand in the way of stopping the fighting.

Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani issued the call following the Israeli airstrike that killed at least 56 Lebanese, mostly women and children, in the village of Qana. It was the deadliest attack in nearly three weeks of fighting.

"Islamic nations will not forgive the entities that hinder a cease-fire," al-Sistani said in a clear reference to the United States.

It takes only one word from Grand Ayatollah Al-Sistani, and all the Shias of Iraq will turn on our troops there, putting them in grave danger. We should not ignore his call, and we should not remain deaf at the cries of the Lebanese. Ignore Al-Sistani at our troops' peril!

[madfloridian]

80. Well, the speaker of the parliament does not agree.

I am not sure who is boss there. The speaker said "the bombings and the beheadings were the responsibilities of "Jews and the sons of Jews."

Doesn't sound like he wants a ceasefire.

[IndianaGreen]

81. Put Saddam back in power if you don't want a Shia-run Iraq

We invaded Iraq partly on the prompting of Israel's supporters in the US, and now we have a FUBAR mess that will be made worse if Grand Ayatollah Al-Sistani orders the Shia to kick our asses out of the country.

[madfloridian]

72. There is never a middle ground at DU. It is all or nothing.

It is screaming hatred, attacking, or going after each other.

This is one of the most complex messes our country has ever been in, and there is no simple out.

When I tried to point this out I was compared to GWB.

[madfloridian]

76. Some reading material.

A letter that shows what awaits those who cross AIPAC. Someone tried on 03, and was immediately called out on it.

This letter needs to read, from Representative Betty McCollum.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/19063

It tells about H. R. 4681, passed by suspending the rules in Congress.

More in pdf about this bill.

http://wwwa.house.gov/international_relations/109/H4681_su5_xml.pdf

And further, in addition to limiting what can be done about Hamas, they have passed a resolution I do not fully understand (and I doubt they do). Was it passed by suspending the rules? Maybe, I don't know. Read about it here.

http://www.stljewishlight.com/news/331702253481401.php

Amazed at the attacks on me in this thread for trying to see both sides. I actually am not a supporter of Israel that much, but then I am not in congress, which can now pass rules like this without discussion.

Stop blaming our Democrats for everything in the world, and put some of it in the laps of the Republicans.

Yeh, I am really passing propaganda now, aren't I?

[superconnected]

77. Sold out again.

[madfloridian]

78. Reading material.

A letter that shows what awaits those who cross AIPAC. Someone tried on 03, and was immediately called out on it.

This letter needs to be read, from Representative Betty McCollum.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/19063

It tells about H. R. 4681, passed by suspending the rules in Congress.

More in pdf about this bill.

http://wwwa.house.gov/international_relations/109/H4681_su5_xml.pdf

And further, in addition to limiting what can be done about Hamas, they have passed a resolution I do not fully understand (and I doubt they do). Was it passed by suspending the rules? Maybe, I don't know. Read about it here.

http://www.stljewishlight.com/news/331702253481401.php

Amazed at the attacks on me in this thread for trying to see both sides. I actually am not a supporter of Israel that much, but then I am not in congress, which can now pass rules like this without discussion.

Stop blaming our Democrats for everything in the world, and put some of it in the laps of the Republicans.

Yeh, I am really passing propaganda now, aren't I?

[IndianaGreen]

86. Lebanon is being attacked just as Poland was in 1939

When it comes to wars of aggression, and when an entire nation is being obliterated by bombs, there is no middle ground and no room for Neville Chamberlains.

We should have defended Lebanon. The only real democracy in the Middle East!

[madfloridian]

88. Since you said I was Good German...

I don't try to convince you of stuff anymore.

[IndianaGreen]

89. You will see what I meant when you see our army return from Iraq

defeated and demoralized. All empires ended badly!

[madfloridian]

92. You argue with me like you think I don't agree.

I don't know why you do that. I have my opinion, but I realize the world does not conduct itself according to my opinion.

I agree, but it does not matter.

[IndianaGreen]

93. How could I be arguing with such a nice person like yourself?

We are in a FUBAR situation and we are all going to get it no matter what we say here.

[JackORoses]

94. i've read your posts on this thread

you continually say that Democrats cannot defend a terrorist group so they have to side with Israel.

How would calling for an immediate Cease-fire be supporting Terrorists?

It seems to me that calling for a cease-fire would not be defending Hezbollah or Israel.
It would be defending the 700+ dead civilians and all yet those to come.

But what do I know, I only value human life.

[madfloridian]

96. Don't misquote me. I am for ceasefire.

I am trying to present the tough position our Democrats are in. Why are you not after the Republicans as well?

I am sorry that you think I don't value life. God, what a thread this has been. I try to see both sides, but in this thread there is only one side.

That is what I meant about DU, there is no middle ground.

I don't disagree with a ceasefire, but if you read up on this situation, read what I posted below....it ain't gonna happen unless the GOP wants it.

They can pass anything they want now.

[lumpy]

103. I really believe you find it difficult to

digest and you misconstrue what many of the posters here have to say. I suggest you read JoeMurph's post #49 and read the site reference to Daily kos to get some insight on the mechanics of the political plans going on between the US administration and Israel leaders.

[madfloridian]

110. No, you are wrong.

To most of the posters in this thread, there are no two sides to it. For trying to present both sides, I am the warmonger.

I read the Kos post, and I know what is going on.

I just tried to show why our Democrats were in a tough spot. But never mind, it never matters when Democrats are being attacked here at DU. There is no middle ground.

Just weeks until elections and the attacks on them are getting worse here. Shades of 3rd party, green or otherwise. Happens every time.

[Occulus]

95. Bastards. n/t

[josh nelson]

98. amazing

I can't believe that some Democrats are still not willing to stand up to the Bush regime.

[Massachusetts]

108. Congressional Democrats echo Bush's defense of Israel

Amazing what $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ will buy, even a persons soul.

Most Pols have been completely out of touch with main stream America for years. We The People have to start all over again, the "great experiment" has failed.

[redqueen]

113. the problem starts with "we the people"

too many of us are woefully ignorant about too many issues

[Dutch]

114. Good. n/t