Israeli Air Force breaks agreement and attacks Southern Lebanon

[itzamirakul]

ABC is trying to paint this morning's strikes as preemptive.

Didn't take long, did it?

[saigon68]

1. Israel is just one of two terrorist organizations at work here

They have an Air Force too

[itzamirakul]

2. This morning Israeli planes struck Lebanon regardless of

whoever else has planes. Lebanese have not struck at Israel nor have they struck back following this morning's attack. This attack was done despite an agreement made just yesterday with the U.S. SOS. Israel apparently cannot be trusted to keep its word. It lies boldfacedly and then attempts to lie its way out of its lies.

[saigon68]

4. More deaths to appease the NeoCon War criminals

Its the "NEW MIDDLE EAST" of KindaSleezy Rice

[itzamirakul]

9. It will be very interesting to see how Rice et all try to spin today's

attacks to put the blame on the Lebanese. You know, somehow, the Israeli leadership "read the minds" of the Lebanese and attacked them because they may have been planning to attack Israel with more children.:sarcasm:

I have tried to stay fair-minded about this entire mess because God knows, I have not more special love for one side than for the other. Like most folks, I just want to see peace. It is apparent that Israel does not want peace and they want us to continue to support them as they lie, twist and distort facts to benefit themselves. If they do this to the Lebanese and the Palestinians, what do you think they will do to the average American? Because they are sure getting "their way" with our government.

[saigon68]

75. She wants the world to forget the bodies

And "KILL THE TERRORISTS"

[Xenotime]

68. Agree. They have tasted blood and they like it.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Wednesdays]

59. And this non-sequitor brought to you by...

?

[katty]

62. they always break agreements: Reuters: Syria Pres tell army to ready

[dennis4868]

38. Israel a terrorist organization?

hahaha....some people here are really confused.....

Believe me if you were in Israsel surrounded by 25 countries and hundreds of terrorist groups just waiting to completely destroy you and the country you would not sit back. Unfortunately, most people here have never been to Israel and have no clue what the people there have to deal with on a daily basis. They have been dealing with a possible 911 day everyday for the last 60 years.....

[saigon68]

42. Still a terrorist organization

[msmcghee]

44. Dennis, it's no use . .

The DU left has always considered Israel the terrorist state in the ME - and the poor Palestinians are only using suicide bombers because that's all they can do any more to fight the oppression of the fascist Jews.

How sick.

[lastliberalintexas]

49. Hmmm, interesting

That's the 2nd post I've seen today arguing that "the left" has always hated Israel. False and very, very interesting...

[msmcghee]

54. Perhaps there was more sarcasm . .

. . in my post than justified. But, have you been reading some of these posts? Actually, from reading your recent posts I see that you are anti-Isreal yourself - as are many others here at DU.

Promoting peace is more than taking sides. It is opposing and marginalizing any group that initiates violence against another. Hizbollah initiated this violence. If you blame Israel or say that Israel's attemp to shut down the missile launchers is equivalent morally - then you have taken sides with the bad guys.

It's a cruel world but that's the way it works.

[lastliberalintexas]

56. I'm not anti-Israel, and I've said that in my posts today

So you know, today is really the only day I've posted very much criticism of either side in this. I knew that I had a fairly pro-Israel viewpoint, so I tried to simply express sympathy for the people of the area and support for PEACE instead. Do a search of my posts and you'll see that.

However, Israel's leaders have completely lost it, and are becoming as big a cancer as Nasrallah et al. I hope that you can appreciate the specificity with which I posted- the LEADERS of both sides can all go jump in a lake as far as I'm concerned. I'd be very happy to not see another bombed out dead body of a 2 year old child, be it Israeli, Jewish, Lebanese, Muslim or Christian. Kapiche?

That neither makes me anti-Israel nor even anti-Hezbollah, so much as it makes me a peacenik who believes that diplomacy could work even in this situation.


And an interesting sidenote, you and I actually appear to agree more than it seems. We've both professed the need to *marginalize* the extremists so that the rest of the folks can live in peace. :)

[prole100]

3. Guess Condi Can Go Back Home Again

eom

[Gully Foyle]

5. Juan clears muddy waters again

http://www.juancole.com/
"What is Hizbullah?

Western and Israeli pundits keep comparing Hizbullah to al-Qaeda. It is a huge conceptual error. There is a crucial difference between an international terrorist network like al-Qaeda, which can be disrupted by good old policing techniques (such as inserting an agent in the Western Union office in Karachi), and a sub-nationalist movement.

Al-Qaeda is some 5,000 multinational volunteers organized in tiny cells.

Hizbullah is a mass expression of subnationalism that has the loyalty of some 1.3 million highly connected and politically mobilized peasants and slum dwellers. Over a relatively compact area.

I take sub-nationalism as a concept from Anthony D. Smith. It would be most familiar to Western readers under the rubric of the Irish Catholics of North Ireland, or even the Scots of the UK. Subnationalism, like the larger, over-arching nationalism, is a mass movement."

Go read the rest.

[Jim__]

29. Good information - Thanks - n/t

[bemildred]

34. Thank you, that was very good. nt

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pepper32]

8. ....

:wtf:

[ClintonTyree]

11. My reaction as well..........

double :wtf: :wtf:

[ClintonTyree]

10. I think you've wandered onto the wrong web-site.

Perhaps the reason the U.N. has "NEVER worked" is because countries like Israel and the United States ignore any and all directives and sanctions that apply to them. If everyone obeyed the dictates of the U.N. the world would probably be a much nicer place. Just a hunch!

[Nederland]

63. True

If everyone obeyed the dictates of the UN the world would be a better place. But they don't obey the dictates of the UN because the UN has no way to enforce it's dictates. It is this fundamental flaw in the UN that causes people to say that the UN never works. They say because it's true, and it's true because the UN is a voluntary organization which by definition has little to no power.

[liberal N proud]

7. But they got that head line in all the papers of the world

"Air attacks on hold"
Lockstep with the bu$h regime, say one thing to get the headline and do the opposite.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moderator]

13. abc news link

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2255407

[muriel_volestrangler]

14. What a fucking farce that "48 hours" was

The Israeli air force carried out strikes Monday in southern Lebanon despite an agreement to halt raids for 48 hours after nearly 60 Lebanese civilians were killed in an Israeli bombing, the army said.

The airstrikes near the village of Taibe were meant to protect ground forces operating in the area and were not targeting anyone or anything specific, the army said.

So they're still firing at random in southern Lebanon. From the Reuters latest report:

Israeli naval ships fired on a Lebanese army post on the main southern coastal road killed a soldier and wounded three at Qasmiyeh, north of the port city of Tyre, security sources said.
...
A senior Israeli political source said a ceasefire would only take effect once an international force had deployed.

The source added that Israel's 48-hour suspension of aerial attacks did not include retaliation for any Hizbollah rocket strikes, the assassination of the Shi'ite group's leaders or assistance to Israeli ground forces in southern Lebanon.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=newsOne&storyID=2006-07-31T104552Z_01_L30823603_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST.xml&WTmodLoc=Home-C1-TopStories-newsOne-2

So what are they saying they're suspending?

[Kailassa]

15. It is a straight out confession of targeting civilians.

As they are are definitely having a cease-fire, we have their word for it, and targeting innocent civilians is the only thing not on their list of what they are still doing.

So they must be stopping it for a little while ... in Southern Lebanon, so long as they don't need to support ground troups, or have to kill another few hundred in retaliation for one of these hisb'Allah rocket strikes that never seems to kill anyone, or to assassinate another Shi'ite leader.

[Buns_of_Fire]

16. "suspension of aerial attacks... did not include..."

Sounds like the rationale behind a "signing statement" to me. Lebanon was on Double Secret Probation.

[hang a left]

20. "suspension of aerial attacks... did not include..."

"...plus, we had our fingers crossed."

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

46. Maybe it was 48 BUSINESS hours? No, wait, it'd take LONGER, not shorter.

Mixed up the lies. Sorry.

[arwalden]

52. You Slay Me!!

:rofl:

[CanuckAmok]

61. "FEDeath. When you absolutely positively have to kill civilians overnight"

.

[Nederland]

64. Nice

Thanks for putting a smile on my face :)

[Wednesdays]

60. Oh now that's rich!

The airstrikes near the village of Taibe were meant to protect ground forces operating in the area and were not targeting anyone or anything specific, the army said.

I can just see it now...two fighter-bombers out on their mission...

Pilot 1: What do you wanna bomb?

Pilot 2: I dunno, what do you wanna bomb?

Pilot 1: I dunno. Anything around here good to bomb?

Pilot 2: Nah, not really.

Pilot 1: Hey, maybe we could bomb that big pile of sand.

Pilot 2: Cool! Go for it!

Pilot 1: Bombs away!

Pilot 2: Wow, look at that sand fly all over the place. Let me try it too...bombs away!

Pilot 1: Good job! We leveled that pile of sand. Now let's head back to base.

Pilot 2: Hope we can do this again. This was a lot of fun.

[hang a left]

17. It appears to me that the IDF is trying to provoke someone.

That was a dirty dirty trick upon the people of Lebanon. Like a chicken shit sucker punch.

[sg_]

18. According to the news here...

they are allowed to break their 'ceasefire' if they see rockets being moved, to cover their soldiers, and if they see rockets being fired.

Not really much of a difference from what they were at before.

[lastliberalintexas]

19. Fucking assholes

I've had it. Personally, I came into this whole thing with a very pro-Israel and an almost anti-Arab state bias. As a female who would be burned at the stake in most of the Arab countries being as outspoken as I am, I've never been particularly fond of the Arab world. Yes, I am openly admitting to a huge prejudice that I have had in my life. Not against Arabs per se, but against the sexist policies that Arabs allow in their countries. As I grew older, I realized that many of those policies were put in place by dictatorial tyrants of a religious order, regardless of what the country's population wanted, and thus they gained *some* sympathy from me. Not too much, though, since it is often the men of the village/town who carry out the "punishment" against the women who dared to get raped or the girls who had the temerity to speak when not spoken to. The Taliban was on my radar in the 90s, long before they refused Bush his pipeline, for their treatment of women, although my preferred way of dealing with them was not to bomb ths hell out of the country at large.

I say all that simply to point out to the Israeli apologists on this board that Isreal is losing folks like me. I've supported Israel through thick and thin, even at times I probably shouldn't have being the peacenik that I am. But no more. Israel is actually becoming the thing it once feared the most, and is allowing/using the irrational fear of many Jews that the next Holocaust is around the corner to stoke their (mostly lukewarm) support for atrocities to be committed in their name. NEWSFLASH! The "next Holocaust" already happened, and the world didn't give a shit- not even the country of Israel.

But Israeli apologists, keep arguing that Israel has the "right" to do whatever the fuck it wants, and you'll keep losing people like me. (yes, I now that you folks don't actually come out and say that, but one would have to be an idiot with absolutely no reading comprehension not to see that is what you mean)


The dead of all sides don't care whether it was a Hezbollah bomb or an Israeli missile which killed them- they're still dead. And they still leave a grieving family, assuming of course that the entire family wasn't bombed. :eyes:

[mccoyn]

32. I've turned too.

After watching Meet the Press last night. They had an ambassador from both sides and the Israeli one was doing so much spinning that I couldn't believe the one or two things he said were credible. I don't see how we can support a country with such a thin premise for war.

[lastliberalintexas]

51. Don't know that I've turned, so much as retreated

I'm certainly still not a supporter of most of the Arab governments nor of Hezbelloah and Hamas. But I've certainly retreated quite a bit in my support for the nation of Israel's actions.

I have much, much sympathy for the *people* of the region, regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, etc. The "leaders" could all go to hell for all I care, and I hate that I feel that way. :(

[Laotra]

71. As for me,

it's become physically impossible to listen to the Israel jingoists spinning on the telly. When they spew their hatefull lies, I can only change channel.

[dennis4868]

39. spend a month or 2 in Israel....

and you will quickly learn why they are doing all of this. I wish there was a better way but there isn't.

[frankieT]

47. you should spend some time

in occupied territories or Lebanon and maybe you'll get why people are resisting

[lastliberalintexas]

48. Bushwellian Newspeak

You wish there was a better way, but can't imagine any possible alternative to blowing the shit out of children and old people? :eyes:

Israel could take any number of actions that would help it regain credibility in the world's eyes. For instance, Israel could actually engage in a cease fire, call for NATO and/or UN peacekeepers, pull back to 1967 borders and agree to the 2 state solution pushed by the Clinton administration. That would eradicate much of the Arab world's hatred of Israel, and certainly marginalize the Arab extremists who wouldn't be happy with such compromise. And at that point, the rest of the world would be much more willing to back Israel as a legitimate nation instead of the screwed up mini-US that it has become.

But I am at least happy that you don't have a peace sign as your avatar, as so many other pro-war posters seem wont to do.

[PaDem]

55. utter nonsense........

but go on believing whatever you want.

[Laotra]

72. Ya Nasrallah, ya habib, udrub udrub Tel Aviv!

eom

[Boomer]

74. Eerie to hear my own thoughts expressed

I will confess that I've had a long-standing dislike for Arab culture based on their attitudes towards uppity women and gays, which makes me a double pariah in their eyes.

And I've had a long-standing admiration for Jewish culture because of its reverence for learning and it's humanitarian principles.

So I was especially resistant to criticism against Israel, basically just uneasily shrugging off the reports of what was going on in Palestine or Lebanon throughout the 70s and 80s. But over time my protective shell has cracked, and I find it impossible to ignore the crimes committed against so many Palestinians and Arabs over the decades.

There is more than enough blame to go around, and far too much blood shed on both sides. But nothing can make me accept what is happening in Lebanon today.

[warrens]

21. You didn't read the small print in the announcement

* This announcement is null and void anytime we fucking feel like it, asshats.

[itzamirakul]

22. It's that damned small print that gets you every time!....nt

[zreosumgame]

23. preemptive retroactive abortion of children?

n/t

[daleo]

24. It sure looks calculated to antagonize world opinion

It seems like Israel is coming up with "in your face" stuff on purpose. I really wonder if there aren't conflicts within the Israeli leadership, military or civilian. It is as if one part of the leadership decides to do something (e.g. 48 hour cessation of air bombing) and the other just goes ahead and ignores it.

[Marie26]

26. Could be

I have this theory that the IDF Chief of Staff is a neo-con stooge who is specifically ignoring the civilian orders. He's the one that came up w/the threat to "bomb 10 apt. buildings" for every Hizbollah rocket launched.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

35. Wasn't the object of the 48 hour ceasefire to allow civilians to evacuate?

So if only a few hours later the airstrikes continue, doesn't this make fleeing civilians even more at risk than they would be if they had stayed in their buildings? This makes the Israeli Administration look confused and disorganized. And since Condi was apparently claiming some kind of a small victory over this temporary cooling-off period, this makes her look bad as well.

[daleo]

41. Yes, it gives civilians a no-win option

Flee and you might be killed on the road. Stay and you might be killed in your homes.

[bemildred]

25. "Not worth the paper its written on". nt

[Binka]

27. Hell It Was Written On Toilet Paper And Israel Needed To Wipe It's Ass

Dontcha know?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. I see two possibilities.

1. They lied the whole time about the temporary cease-fire.

2. The right hand does not know/agree with what the left hand is doing.

You decide which is scarier.

[Seabiscuit]

30. For Israel to behave as irrationally as it has been for the past month,

there's got to be something truly nefarious going on behind the scenes between Bush and the Likud. Something like Israel paving the way for a joint Israeli-American invasion of Syria/Iran. Such recklessness brazenness in inciting a worldwide outcry has never been seen from Israel before Shrub invaded Iraq after Shrub gave the finger to the U.N. and the world. Now Israel appears bent on doing the same kind of thing.

I can only imagine that a majority of Israelis are just as appalled now by the actions of their government as we are about the actions of ours.

Perhaps Israel is doing Shrub's dirty work in an attempt to incite another 9-11 here before the November elections?

In any event, this kind of horrific shit doesn't just occur in a vacuum. Something's up and something else is going down.

[BeHereNow]

43. I'm with you- something else IS going on, and here's what I think it is...

I listened to Robert Fisk this morning in an interview
with Amy Goodman on the Democracy Now broadcast.
It is a MUST hear interview.
It will be available later today on the net at:
http://www.democracynow.org

Warning: It will make you INSANELY angry.

That aside, the point I want to stress is this,
during the interview, Fisk said,
"This will bring another 9-11..."
He was referring to the civilian casualties and the
Arab outrage about them.

I think he is right, and I think that is EXACTLY what the
neocons need to launch and assault on Iran.

Therefore, one plausible reason for the US backing
of the continued reckless assault on Lebanon.

What better way to entice the anti-US organizations to
retaliate, thus giving the neocons their justifcation
to attack Iran?

BHN

[bemildred]

45. A good guess.

I've been wondering about that.
It's hard to be sure.

[BeHereNow]

50. Remember the generals who stepped down over the Cheney plan?

Cheney went to the Air force Strat-Com and
had them devise a pre-emptive strike against
Iran in the case of another 9-11 attack, REGARDLESS
of whether of not any ties to Iran could be proven.
Two generals, that I know of, "retired" shortly thereafter
and there was a report by Philip Giraldi about people
in the unit being horrified by what Cheney was asking them to do,
and yet they said and did nothing for fear of losing their jobs.
Somehow, the continued support of Israel, even in the
face of war crimes and breaking of the 48 hour "truce"
makes me wonder if the neocons would not relish
another 9-11...
How else can we explaing the continued whacking of the hornet''s nest
by the US backed IDF in the ME?

You REALLY need to hear the Robert Fisk interview
at the Democracy Now web site.
It should be available this afternoon, if not sooner.

BHN

[bemildred]

58. Well, Napoleon's rule must be considered.

"Never ascribe to malice what is adequately explained by incompetence."

I mean, they really are stupid, ignorant, venal men. It is true that the two explanations do not exclude each other. And it does seem that their only hope at this point is some sort of casus belli, a nice big war, and the yammering herd all falling in behind them in an orgy of bloodlust.

[NoodleyAppendage]

53. The Chimperior's time is running out on completing PNAC roadmap.

Chimp has 2 more years to at least lay the ground for the PNAC vision. Israel is providing the justification by trying to provoke a wider war in the Middle East. If Israel's terrorist bombing doesn't work to bring on a military response from Syria or Iran, you can bet your house payment that Israel will bomb the Iranian nuke facility.

This is all about provoking a wider war. Truely breath-taking and a major reason why I'm so ashamed to be an American right now.

J

[Marie26]

65. What if

:tinfoilhat: Israel knows that the US is planning to bomb Iran in the near future? If that's the case, they'd know that Hizbollah would attack Israel on Iran's behalf as soon as the US bombed. So they decide to completely eradicate Hizbollah themselves now before the US attacks Iran. Israel's actions are so over the top that it does seem like something is going on here. It's hard to know just what, though.

[Seabiscuit]

69. I personally see nothing "tin-foily" about wondering about it all. n/t

[KKKarl is an idiot]

31. I figured it out

They are halting terrorists attack on what they say could be future terrorists/threats like children. For the moment they will continue to attack only current self proclaimed terrorists. That is what was meant when they said they "reserved the right to hit targets of immediate threat".

[uppityperson]

33. Reuters: "Israel rejects ceasefire calls", article/link

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topnews&storyID=2006-07-31T141340Z_01_L30823603_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST.xml

Israel rejected mounting international pressure on Monday to end its 20-day-old war against Hizbollah guerrillas in Lebanon, but Washington said a ceasefire could be achieved this week.

Civilians fled battered villages in southern Lebanon after Israel agreed to partially halt air strikes for 48 hours, and aid convoys headed into the area to deliver supplies...
(clip)
Despite its 48-hour truce, which started early on Monday, Israel said it may still use aerial strikes to target Hizbollah leaders and rocket launchers and to back up ground operations.

Israeli jets fired two bombs to support ground troops battling Hizbollah inside Lebanon and artillery shells hit two southern frontier villages. A Lebanese soldier died and three were wounded when another Israeli air strike destroyed their vehicle. Hizbollah fired two shells into the northern Israeli border town of Kiryat Shmona on Monday, but nobody was wounded...(more@link)

[progressivebydesign]

36. Found a really interesting article on the conflict a different perspective

this was in the Chicago Tribune, written by a woman that covered Lebanon in the 80s, and has lived there ever since. It's a really balanced look at Hezbollah's past and how it's affect on the Middle East. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0607310214jul31,0,267668.story

It's really relevant today, showing why Israel's campaign is ill-conceived. Food for thought anyway..

[Scurrilous]

37. 25 more bodies dug up in south Lebanon

Rescue workers begin gruesome task of digging up dozens of bodies from rubble in cluster of villages, towns bombarded by Israel

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3284318,00.html

<snip>

"Rescuers recovered 25 bodies on Monday at the start of the gruesome task of digging up dozens of bodies from the rubble of south Lebanon during a 48-hour suspension of Israeli air attacks.

Lebanese Red Cross sources said 12 bodies were recovered in the village of Sreefa, nine in Zibqeen and four in Qleileh, all east of the port city of Tyre.

They said rescue workers were looking for dozens more bodies believed to be buried under the rubble in a cluster of border villages and towns bombarded by Israeli aircraft over the past three weeks.

Israel's three-week offensive in Lebanon has killed around 575 people, mostly civilians.

Lebanese Health Minister Mohammad Khalifeh put the number of unrecovered bodies at 200, which would take the death toll to 750 in Lebanon. Fifty-one Israelis have also been killed."

[Subdivisions]

40. An Israeli govt talking head...

speaking on CNN said that Israel only agreed to cease bombing strategic targets for 48 hours but that they would continue bombing targets that don't put civilians in the line of fire.

[Marie26]

66. Meaning that

all the other bombings are against civilian targets? Isreal's attempts to "spin" events consistently makes them look even worse.

[Megahurtz]

67. That's the Answer! Just Kill Everybody!

:sarcasm:

[lanlady]

70. Israel is preying on weak states -- like the US in Iraq

Another. stronger country would have declared war on Israel in retaliation -- but Lebanon can't afford to, its military and government institutions are too weak. So, in Israel we have the US model of warfare at work -- beat up on the weak guy, never take on an opponent who might give you a fight.

[Sretto]

73. Go team Go!

Life on the side lines really sux don't it?