Romney apologizes for use of expression (tarbaby)

[Justice]

Here is what he said in Iowa in response to a question about the Big Dig tunnel collapse:

"The best thing for me to do politically is stay away from the Big Dig -- just get as far away from that tar baby as I possibly can,"

and when people objected -- here is what he said:


Governor Mitt Romney yesterday apologized for using the expression ``tar baby" -- a phrase some consider a racial epithet -- among comments he made at a political gathering in Iowa over the weekend.

Here is how others defended him --

`The governor was describing a sticky situation," said Eric Fehrnstrom, the governor's spokesman. ``He was unaware that some people find the term objectionable, and he's sorry if anyone was offended."

Rev. Ray Hammond, chairman of the Boston Ten Point Coalition:

``He was very clear that he knew nothing about the history or the racist overtone of the term. He was mortified and he was very apologetic. I suspect he just didn't understand the origin of the term." He said he wouldn't use the term in the future, based on what he now understands."

Ahh, so the guy finally starts acting like a governor after the big dig tunnel collapse - and a week later he starts patting himself on the back for doing his job (acting like a governor) in a political speech in Iowa - and completely mucks it up, then explains himself by saying he had no idea about the origin of the term tarbaby. Hmm, that explains alot - he doesn't understand the origins of other words either - i.e. leadership, compassion, and my favorite empathy.


http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/07/31/romney_apologizes_for_use_of_expression/

on edit - add additional quotes and link.

[meegbear]

1. It's called "code" ...

Nothing gets those white repugs going like stating your displeasure for minorities.

[Tight_rope]

39. That's right....Eventually they just can't hold their tongues...

[Occulus]

55. Except that it wasn't a racist statement in the first place n/t

[Tight_rope]

92. Sure! And Bush* never lied to the American people!

:spank: Wake up!...This isn't 1906!

[LostinVA]

154. "Tar Baby" definitely wasn't a racist term in 1906

And, used the way Mitt used it, it still isn't. Whether or not he was being smarmy, I don't know. But he used it properly... and it is NOT racist.

[Kingshakabobo]

143. ...and Mel Gibson isn't an anti-semite. n/t

[saigon68]

153. So where is Da Tar Baby?

[zonkers]

75. Gotta agree.

[MaineDem]

2. Proves he's really not a New Englander

I've always considered that term a racial epithet and I've lived in New England my whole life. I've never heard it used otherwise (until Tony Snow used it.)

[wisteria]

44. He is right and he is wrong- see link

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19990212


The expression tar baby is also used occasionally as a derogatory term for black people (in the U.S. it refers to African-Americans; in New Zealand it refers to Maoris), or among blacks as a term for a particularly dark-skinned person. As a result, some people suggest avoiding the use of the term in any context.




have come across the term "tar baby" recently. For example, a recent newspaper editorial mentioned the Clinton impeachment as a "tar baby" they'd have to get rid of before the 2000 elections. Another article, on a drug-policy Web site, mentioned the "medical marijuana tar baby" as an issue that the FDA had to deal with. What does the expression mean, and where does it come from?

[Occulus]

52. Others have explained it on this thread

It means "sticky situation", literally. The racial connotation comes only from those who WANT it to have a racial connotation.

In truth, it is and never was anything of the sort.

[MaineDem]

62. I have never heard it used in the "Br'er Rabbit" connotation

I understand the reference in literature but the only times I have ever heard the term used in conversation has been in a derogatory term to refer to a black person. I learned as a child to never use a term like that. Seriously, until Tony Snow used the term and I read all the discussion here at DU I never realized it could be used in a non-racist way. Perhaps it's a regional thing.

Lots of things have become offensive over the years. It doesn't really matter what the original connotation of the word was. If people take offense to it, it IS offensive.

It was a stupid thing for Mittens to say. Especially given the Snow gaffe a few weeks ago. I do think this will come back to haunt him during a Presidential run.

[Occulus]

66. The story and the meaning of the story haven't changed

And if the Uncle Remus stories are suddenly racist, well... people are jumping the shark. Seriously.

Especially when one considers just where those stories originated. I would laugh, but Certain Parties may think I'm being racist.

http://www.ongoing-tales.com/SERIALS/oldtime/FAIRYTALES/tarbaby.html

It's actually a really good little story, and the fact that it's written in dialect only makes it seem more genuine.

[heliarc]

72. Talk about misuse of the phrase...

"Jumping the shark," in no way means what you use it for. The term Jump the shark refers to an episode of Happy Days where Fonzarelli is waterskiing and actually jumps a shark. It was widely believed to be the moment the show lost touch and credibility with viewers, and the term is used to refer to TV programs which do something similar during the life of the program.

It is first of all a leap to claim that people and not television programs can "jump the shark," and secondly, it is a leap to think that "jumping the shark" is synonymous with "jumping to conclusions." Funny that you should misuse the term on a thread that is specifically about misusing the term. The joke's on me if you meant to do that intentionally, but if you did, you were certainly "drinking the kool-aid." (Not really of course... just another turn of phrase gone wrong)

[Occulus]

99. Thank you, I know what it means quite well

And, had you bothered to stop and think about what it was I was actually referring to, you wouldn't have posted what you did.

The term is used to describe anyone or anything which loses credibility, not just TV shows. In this case, the story (as I understand its origins) was a tale told by slaves in the south, which itself was passed down from AFRICAN folklore.

Let me say that twice:

The story comes from AFRICAN folklore.

Therefore, people who say that using the term 'tar baby' is racist are losing credibility and are out of touch with the true meaning of the story (by obscuring the true meaning of the phrase).

They are 'jumping the shark' by making something that is not actually a racist comment into something that is. And, believe it or not, the only times I've seen that phrase ('jump the shark') used here on DU is- wait for it- in reference to people and their actions.

Now, if you'd like to point out the irony between the two phrases- the irony being that what we're really talking about here is the same thing, that phrases seem to have changed their meanings over time- feel free.

This is all silliness anyway; the story is not now racist and never was.

[heliarc]

147. Hey hey...

No need to get hostile. I still don't think it applies. I'm making no statement about your point about the use of the term "Tar baby" which I think is probably used in both racist and non-racist contexts. At any rate, I don't trust the Governor or Tony Snow to use it with any integrity.

I don't think it's silliness for people to discuss when or why they feel offended by things like this at all. I think its sillier when people like you aren't open minded enough to hear varying opinions. There are a lot of excellent points about usage in this thread that don't only take into account your adamant historical positions about the origins of the term. They take into account region, and communities. In fact, if you were to ask Tony Snow or the Governor about the origin of the story, I think they would be hard pressed to give you an answer. And that may well be reason enough for me to believe their usage to be racist. Sheer ignorance on their part of their co-opting of an African American symbol.

My point about "Jump the shark" as a term is besides the point. Its a trivial phrase is part of my problem. I've never heard it used the way you use it and frankly, that means I didn't know WTF you were talking about. Thank you for clarifying your point for me. I think I understand you now.

[MGKrebs]

155. How about "Uncle Tom" or "Sambo"?

Regardless of their original context or era, some things can become sensitive and we must be careful how we use them.

[Yupster]

73. Funny because my experience is just

the opposite.

The only times I ever hear it is in business referring to an assignment or project that keeps soaking money and never gives results. The last time I hear it was a Mexican-American guy commenting on an oil-well he was in charge of. They were re-fracing it for about the third time and he said his opinion was they should just cap it and drop that tar baby.

Anyway, I guess regional differences.

[leesa]

79. And I had never heard it used as the "sticky situation" connotation before

the Tony Snow bit. It seems to be regional. Surely this twit noticed the fracas when Snow used the term though.

[Seldona]

151. Funny, but in 35 years

I have never heard it used in any other context. As another poster stated, I was not even aware this derogatory term even had a so called 'legitimate' use.

Personally I think it is in the arena of a Freudian slip.

[fishwax]

167. whether the original meaning was racist or not, the term aquired racist

connotations long ago, through its use by racists to refer to black people. That doesn't mean the uncle remus stories are necessarily racist, but words and phrases often take on a life outside their original contexts.

[itzamirakul]

3. Oh, come on now...We really must "overlook" this seeming offense.

After all, we must allow room for growth for those people who just moved to America yesterday.:sarcasm:

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. And Tony Snow (who started this crap with that expression)

remains unapologetic.

[marmar]

7. Tony Snow has got some cultural sensitivity issues, methinks...

Even from his news conferences, he seems most comfy when the questioners are white and male.

[underpants]

48. No, Snow gets the White House's message out to the press

That is pretty much part of the standard Republican message.

Neither of these were mistakes.

[KittyWampus]

80. Actually Dan Rather started with that nonsense... as did many other

Journalists, writers, liberals etc.

[proud2BlibKansan]

164. recently?

Tony Snow made the refernce just a few months ago.

[maddezmom]

5. here's the link

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/07/31/romney_apologizes_for_use_of_expression/

[Demeter]

6. If It's A Code Word, Then American Folklore Has Been Defiled

The story of the tar baby is one that this country desperately needs to learn, since the PNAC plans are simply dripping with tar babies: meaning false images that lead to impossible predicaments.

It's the same as the "scandal" which broke out when somebody CORRECTLY used the word "niggardly" and was lynched for it by the ignorant bozos who are quicker to grab a brick than a dictionary.

I suppose bozo is also a racial epithet by now. How the hell would I know? I don't hang with people who think in prejudice and talk in frat boy codes.

Oops, frat boy is also an epithet, but probably only classist, and not racist. Maybe I'll start talking like Hillary. God, no! Anything but that.

[Ian David]

8. Der Mittenfuhrer has really licked the snowflake baby this time. n/t

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

9. Correct.

[HereSince1628]

12. Yes, but you know, it seems that it actually has been.

My S.O. teaches college lit courses and she just chewed all over me that I'm stupid for thinking it's actually part of an Uncle Remus children's story when she knows it as a Toni Morrison novel which for her obviously makes it a racial term.

I thought I just wasn't keeping up with all the bloody abbreviations used in technogeek. Now it turns out, I don't understand the language and meanings of my own childhood. :(

[Spider Jerusalem]

16. I'd say it's your SO who's the stupid one, then

and it sounds like she's not too terribly well-qualified for her job, either.

From the OED, under tar, sub def. 4 (combinative and attributive phrases):

tar-baby, (a) the doll smeared with tar, set to catch Brer Rabbit (see quot. 1881); hence transf., spec. an object of censure; a sticky problem, or one which is only aggravated by attempts to solve it (colloq.).

1881 J. C. Harris Uncle Remus ii. 20 Brer Fox+got 'im some tar, en mix it wid some turkentime, en fix up a contrapshun what he call a *Tar-Baby

The above is given as the first definition of the phrase; note that it also gives the following:

(b) a derog. term for a Black (U.S.) or a Maori (N.Z.)

[LostinVA]

32. Your SO is mistaken, and probably should know better

The Uncle Remus stories far predate Toni Morrison.

I personally can understand why some people think it has roots as a racist term, but it doesn't. Even though the Disney Uncle Remus movie was a racist nightmare, the tales themselves are slave tales based on African folktales.

[Benhurst]

160. If Toni Morrison's novel predates the Uncle Remus story, then

Ms. Morrison is older than I thought. :rofl:

[earthside]

23. Nothing Inherently Racist About It

Before me as I type I have "The Complete Tales of Uncle Remus" by Joel Chandler Harris.

Now, I am not a folklorist, but it is obvious to me that Harris was attempting to "record" African-American folk stories as accurately as he could -- even trying to write the dialect to be as authentic as possible. Frankly, it is hard to read because of the written dialect. (Although the more you read the easier it gets.)

These are great stories.

For the life of me, I cannot understand how using the term "tar-baby" as referenced in the 'Tales of Uncle Remus' can be construed as racist.

[ovidsen]

26. A tar baby has no race

At least, not where I come from.

[mainer]

35. Reminds me of people getting upset about "pedagogy"

Wasn't there a candidate who was accused of being an advocate of "pedagogy" and voters were horrified?

[Yupster]

74. He admits to masticating up to

three times a day, his wife's a known thespian, and his own son is an admitted homo-sapien.

[karlrschneider]

50. Well and truly said. The RWers have no monopoly on

political correctness. :eyes:

[Blue_Tires]

82. agreed n/t

[mike923]

95. It doesn't matter...

you know it isn't a racial term, i know it isn't as well, but the media needs a scandal they can sink their teeth into, and this is as good as any.

Romney is going to run for President. He's got a lot of things going for him, being a governor from a blue state. We all now he is a Morman, but it isn't the easiest thing in the world to point out politically. You can't say, "don't vote for him, he's Morman".

So, take a few punches at him over this, hopefully it knocks him down a few pegs. If it gets a more beatable player in front of him for '08, we come out way ahead.

[fishwax]

166. it's actually not even remotely the same as the "niggardly" incident

Niggardly simply sounds like a slur. Tar baby, on the other hand, has a long and established history of being used as a racial slur.

Sure, it originated in a different context, but words, phrases, and symbols change meanings all the time when they shift contexts. (The swastika was originally a hindu symbol for peace, etc.)

[spinbaby]

10. When did tar baby become racial?

I think of it simply as a reference to the Uncle Remus stories. A tar baby is something that, the more you attack it, the more you stick to it. In the story, Brer Rabbit meets the tar baby--a doll made literally of tar--and becomes offended at its lack of manners. He hits it and, of course, sticks to it. He hits it again and again until he becomes hopelessly stuck.

[wellst0nev0ter]

13. Now Why Would One Hit A Baby?

unless they think its skin looks like tar?

[spinbaby]

15. In the story...

Brer Rabbit becomes frustrated because the tar baby doesn't answer his questions, so he hits it. Then, when he sticks to it, he thinks it's attacking him and hits it again.

[TheCowsCameHome]

27. It had nothing to do with hitting babies or people's skin color.

It was simply a tale meant to illustrate a point.

Every young kid in the world read it at one time or another.

[LostinVA]

33. "Baby" means "doll"

[Recursion]

47. Because the baby wouldn't greet Br'er Rabbit

And Br'er Rabbit was an Important Person in town and by God the baby better greet him.

I wish the phrase wouldn't cause so much furor because frankly Br'er Rabbit and the Tarbaby is a story that *co needs to take to heart.

[GreenArrow]

17. and you're right

The good Reverend himself does not understand the origin of the term, and ironically, the story is one from african american folklore (with further origins stretching back into time);however, the term has picked up an additional racist meaning over the years, and Romney will be smart not to use it.

This site has a chronology of sorts.

http://kpearson.faculty.tcnj.edu/Dictionary/tar_baby.htm

<snip>

The origin of the tar baby seems to lie in the capable hands of Uncle Remus; however, many historians actually trace the tar baby back at least 2500 years before the beloved folktale. The tar baby’s oral history is linked to the history of the rabbit trickster tales in which a rabbit or hare plays the trickster while he is often tricked by the Fox or Wolf. Specifically, the tar baby shows up either as a main character, central theme OR as part of a "stickfast" motif:

"From Bobtail to Brer Rabbit: Native American Influences upon Uncle Remus," an essay by Jay Hansford C. Vest, explores the origin of the trickster rabbit and his tar baby.

Aurelio Espinosa (folklorist) determines that "The Wonderful Tar Baby Story" may have its origins in India, he also thinks that it may have been shared , transported to Africa, and then to the Americas by the Spanish. A cycle of trickster tales in Africa were "associated with the spider, Anaanu."

In 1521, after the capture of a Siouan Indian near Winyaw Bay, South Carolina, Lucas Vazquez de Ayllon brought him back to Spain where he was interviewed by historian Peter Martyr. In Martyr’s De Orbe Novo, the author shares his interview during which the Indian relates a folktale of the "stickfast" motif.

As early as 1612, the idea of a "mightie great Hare" as the "chief god" of the Native Americans is introduced by William Strachey (The Historie of Travell into Virginia Britania).

In "My Mother’s Brother: Monacan Narratives of the Wolf from the Virginia Blue Ridge," Jay Hansford C. Vest shares the following tale, surely a predecessor of Uncle Remus’ "The Wonderful Tar Baby:"

"Bobtail stooped down and uncovered his friend, exclaiming ‘Go get him Piskey!’ Without hesitating Wolf leapt upon the Piskey (tar baby) slapping him with both front paws which stuck fast . . . they became tightly affixed to the Piskey; and in a last desperate act, Wolf bit the Piskey about its head. Now he was stuck fast . . ."

<snip>

[Maeve]

53. There are also "gum baby" variants in other cultures

And the trickster sometimes gets loose by being left out in the hot sun (where the tar/gum melts) or being brought close to a fire, etc.

The Brer Rabbit tales continue to be told and expanded on to this day, altho the "Brer" is often dropped and it's simply Rabbit v Wolf or Fox.

[htuttle]

28. Whoops. (edited)

It's Brer Fox that gets stuck to the tar baby, not Brer Rabbit

Nothing bad ever happens to Brer Rabbit -- he always wins. Je's sort of a Bugs Bunny/Coyote/Trickster figure. Now, Brer Fox could well be the prototype for Wil E. Coyote, from the stories I remember reading. Nothing ever works out for Brer Fox.


On edit:

I was wrong. I just looked it up again. It is Brer Rabbit that fights the tar baby. However, at the end, Brer Rabbit gets Brer Fox to throw him in the briar patch, and he escapes. So he still wins. :)

[hedgehog]

41. I always heard that Brer Rabbit got stuck to the tar baby.

The story goes on that Brer Fox catches him then, and is all set to cook him various ways as Brer Rabbit keeps wailing " Please don't throw me into that briar patch!" Finally the fox decided that's the worse thing that he can do to Brer Rabit and tosses him in. The briars scrape the tar from Brer Rabbit, and he hops away chortling that he was born and raised in the briar patch.

[Recursion]

57. In West Africa, they call the marks on the moon a "rabbit"

(And frankly I can see a rabbit a lot more easily than the European "man" in the moon.)

But yeah, Br'er Rabbit usually weasels his way out of scrapes, including the tarbaby where he famously begs Br'er Fox to do anything but throw him in the briar patch. Br'er Rabbit, to the extent that the stories are a social allegory, represents African Americans who had assimalated to white America and gained social standing because of it -- the prototype of the Booker T. Washington / WEB Dubois split. It is a very anti-assimalationist view, and shows Br'er Rabbit as arrogant towards blacks, lording it over them, but simpering and pleading towards whites.

[Yupster]

76. I'm heading for Disneyworld tomorrow

I'll say hi to them all at Splash Mountain.

[AzDar]

11. Mitt's LDS, no? A religion with racism embedded in it's Original

Doctrine.

[Tesha]

19. LDS to the core.

He was a big part of a conflict in Belmont when the Church of
the LDS wanted to build a temple on a hilltop. The local other
religions objected on relatively foolish grounds that amounted
to, basically, "We can build churches but those Mormans can't!",
but the temple was eventually allowed to be built sans its
proposed spire. Later, the temple fought more legal battles
and got their spire built.

This is the big building you can see just on the south side of
Route 2 as you drive over the Belmont hill towards Boston.

Tesha

[Gully Foyle]

14. Stupid is

Talk about your knee jerk liberalism. Using Tarbaby correctly is NOT racism. Romney used the idea correctly.
Using Niggardly correctly is NOT racist either.
I remember a couple of years ago at Eschaton there was a story about some Black kid accidentally getting on the wrong bus. Because the young teacher was white the ignorant knee jerk liberals jumped all over it as racist.
Shit happens people.
Save your energy for real racism not the fallacious code word bullshit.
It sounds like The Bible code for Liberals, The Racist code.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

20. What do you mean by "the Bible Code" for liberals? n/t

MKJ

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MissB]

131. Wow.

From your post, it seems that in your mind liberals can't be Christians. Or am I "reading in things that just are not there"?

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

34. My, my... be careful

Or one may wonder at your using RW terms for liberals and RW memes...

Oh wait, I'm already past wondering.

[stepnw1f]

42. How about Knee-Jerk Right Wingism?

I happen know for a fact that the term "tarbaby" hass been used as a racial slur regardless of it's origin. Those who don't know should know how words are used... agreed. So ignorance can't be a justification for either assumption, racist or not. I'm a bit surprised to see so many who DON'T know how this word has been used/abused as a racial slur by ignorant folks. Ignorance can cut both ways in this instance... knee-jerk indeed.

[Occulus]

46. And not an example one in your whole post n/t

[stepnw1f]

54. Come Again? (nt)

[Occulus]

60. Not an example one in your whole post.

That's about as hard to understand as.... the meaning of the phrase "tar baby".

[stepnw1f]

63. You Would Be Making a Wrong Assumption

at least when it comes to me if you think, "some people WANT it to be a racist slur."

I heard it used by plenty of idiots as a racial slur growing up here in Boston, MA. Am I lying? Nope.... Does it mean Mitt used it the same way? Nope... did I accuse him of using it for racial purposes nope.

Just responding to someone accusing Liberals of being "knee-jerk".

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

89. Are these the same type of people...

that have lawn jockeys sitting in their front lawn and don't think the slightest thing about it?

[stepnw1f]

117. They May As Well Have Been

The kids learned it from their parents.

[fishwax]

168. and speaking of stupid, the "niggardly" comparison is a rather poor one

Niggardly is phonetically similar to a racial slur. Tar baby is a racial slur. And in common English usage, connotation stretches beyond context--even if one uses "tar baby" in a context consistent with the folkloric definition, one cannot simply wash it clean of its other connotations.

[Joe Bacon]

18. Like Father, Like Son

I still remember 1967 all too well when the pundits said that George Romney would be the GOP nominee against Johnson. He was the front runner until he put his foot in his mouth and said that he had been "brainwashed about Vietnam". Nixon had a field day tearing him apart over that...

[Totally Committed]

22. Do we really need yet another Republican running for POTUS who

claims to know nothing about the history or the racist overtone of a term? Who is so ignorant of history and common decency that racial slurs have to be explained to him at an age well past 50? I mean, really?

I am sick and tired of these Blow-Dry Republican White Boy imbeciles who don't know how to keep their feet out of their mouths for 30 seconds. Do we really want to think about electing yet again another man who will humiliate us on the World Stage?

Romney is nothing but a mindless Ken Doll A**hole who needs to be voted back into anonimity ASAP.

TC

[Igel]

24. This again.

Romney has the origin of the term right. It's people that are only familiar with the racist use of the term that have it wrong.

Problem: People assume they know everything. Even when the context says that the meaning they want a term to have can't possibly be the one intended, it *has* to be, otherwise they and their emotional responses are wrong.

People who see 'tarbaby' as only a racial epithet assume that any who uses the term knows exactly what they know, no more and no less, context be damned. They know the sum total of all that can be said about the term. "Narrow minded" is the least offensive term for this.

Some people who see 'tar baby' as a folk-reference to a sticky situation, so that touching it is to get increasingly involved in it until there's no way to extricate one's self, simply do not know or properly appreciate the racial meaning that's been attributed to the term. This is not racist. This is often a matter of knowledge, or not valuing another's judgment over one's own. Some self-righteously outraged people have a strange reaction to that kind of knowledge deficit: they act like it's fake. They reject the idea that their judgement isn't more important than the speaker's in determining the words the speaker says.

There are two approaches that a reasonable person can take. The first is to break free of one's prejudices about the term and accept it as deriving from what appears to be part of AA heritage in the southern US; that is, those offended can learn that the word has two meanings. The other is for them to say that accepting polysemy for the word is impossible, and that the racist meaning of the term should be deemed the only one possible, and everybody should revise their lexicons appropriately. Then they should politely explain the matter to those who offend. The former would show some kind of breadth of spirit on the part of the listener; acceding to the demands of the offended shows breadth of spirit on the part of the speaker.

[Gormy Cuss]

31. Do ypu think that Romney is unaware of the racist overtone in modern use?

The Tony Snow dust up was only a few months ago. I'm aware of the Uncle Remus story and the racial epithet. For that reason if I were a politician I'd find some other way to describe the situation. If Romney is so arrogant that he ignores the well known second definition of tar baby these days, he deserves the political fallout.

[karlrschneider]

56. I'm certainly no fan of Romney but in my 64 years I NEVER heard

the term used in a racially pejorative manner (until the cunning linguists here at DU informed me that I have obviously led a life sheltered from philological evolution.)

[Occulus]

61. Neither have I

Not once. Ever.

The only people saying this is a racist phrase are the ones who WANT it to be a racist phrase.

It's not, and they're stuck. They've decided to hit the tar baby.

[Igel]

87. It apparently is used

as a racist phrase by some people. I could see that: you focus not on tar = sticky but on tar = black.

What's mildly humorous is that it starts off as AA folklore (from whatever source), gets taken over with a secondary meaning by racists, and then AA advocates decide the racists are entirely right and forget the phrase's origin.

Therefore the allusion to AA folklore is racist. Gotta love it.

[Gormy Cuss]

96. Tony Snow could argue that. For Romney to do so, he would

have to be oblivious to the dust up over the Republican president's press secretary's use of the term. We're talking about Mitt Romney, a Republican governor with lots of political ambition for other elective offices. That's why I find it implausible that Mitt had no idea.

[Igel]

86. I never heard it.

Or, more precisely, I don't remember ever hearing it used in a racially charged way until the Snow dust up.

It may be that I did hear it at some point, but merely consigned it to the occasional use of a standard term in an offensive manner. Like 'camel jockey', which has also been the subject of threads here (there really *are* camel jockeys, kids who are trained to ride camels for the purpose of guiding and urging them on in formal races; contrary to some perceptions not every use of the term is a racial epithet).

This isn't arrogance. It may be for some people. But in my case I use words based on my own experiences, and notice others' experiences tangentially. In other words, my experiences are more important to me than others' are. The ones insisting on 'tarbaby' being only or primarily a term of racist abuse are doing the exact same thing: in their experience, it's usually or always been racist.

Moreover, even if you know the term can be racist, there's been a problem with it and you shouldn't use it, that doesn't mean that you exercise proper self-censorship. After hearing the Snow ruckus, I actually found myself using the term. Why? Because I was primed to use it: I had heard just it recently a lot of times, and that decreased the activation potential for its use when the proper context came up.

Intent in this, as in many other things, matters. To assume that it's always a racist term, even when the context clearly says otherwise, is to assume a level of ill will that's corrosive in civil society.

[fishwax]

169. many of those offended are familiar with both meanings

You appeal to context as though it were the final authority. But context is most useful for determining denotative meanings. Connotations, on the other hand, extend beyond the specific context of a given conversation. Even when we use a term (particularly an offensive term) in a specific context that defines its denotative meaning, we cannot wash away its connotative meanings.

The "narrow minded" term would also apply to (a) those who insist that the term has no racial overtones or (b) those who deny that racial connotations of a known racial slur can be carried over into a conversation that is not inherently about race.

And, finally, while I agree that it is reasonable to "politely explain the matter to those who offend," I also don't think it unreasonable to question the sincerity of a politician with national aspirations when he claims that he'd never ever in his whole life heard of the racial connotations of the term, particularly given that the term was at the center of a minor brewhaha involving the president's press secretary less than two months ago.

[TheCowsCameHome]

25. Sad how that original story has become so twisted and distorted

I remember reading that story over and over again as a kid in the 50's. It was one of many storybooks that are deemed unacceptable now.

It used to mean the harder you tried to get out of a predicament the deeper you got into one.

I wish I still had my copy of that book.

[LostinVA]

36. I've never heard it used as a racist term

And never even realized it could be, until the Tony Snow dustup (I haven't read all of Morrison's novels), and I've been around some pretty racist people, who know probably every derogatory word in the WORLD for Blacks.

So, I have no way of knowing how Mitt was using it, but I don't automatically think of a racist "code word" when it's used by someone. I think of the Uncle Remus stories I read when I was a kid, and which I studied in college.

[stepnw1f]

38. I Have Seen Many Use It for That Purpose

In fact, I had always believed it was a racial slur until I was in my last years of high school. And many white kids in my neighborhood used it often to describe blacks. I'm a bit surprised many here haven't experienced the same.

[LostinVA]

59. It is interesting, because I grew up in a REALLY racist area

I'm 41, and -- as I've said -- just recently heard some use it as a racist term. I do not consider myself naive or sheltered in any way, nor am I uneducated in these matters.

[Occulus]

64. I've known several very racist people

INCLUDING family members, and this phrase was so unused that I had to look it up to know what was being talked about.

Certain people may WANT it to be a racist term, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.

[stepnw1f]

65. I Didn't Accuse you of being Naive or Uninformed...

just surprised... I guess it really matters where you are from. It was used often by many bigots in my area.

[Occulus]

67. That only proves how ignorant they are

because they're misusing the phrase. That doesn't make the phrase itself racist, though.... it only makes them racist.

As I've said over and over- this is only a racial slur if one wants it to be used as one. But you have to try, and try hard, to make it so, because it just isn't, and never was.

(The only people who maintain the phrase "tar baby" is inherently a racist slur are the ones who want it to be one. It's not, and they're wrong. Case closed.)

[stepnw1f]

71. Case Isn't Closed

One... I hope you are not accusing me of "wanting" "tarbaby" to be a racist slur.

two... Just because it's origins are not understood, does not mean people are going to understand, those who use it. That's my point and that is what has raised other's suspicions of Mitt Romney's use of the term, as well as Tony Snow's. Now are there folks who are trying to paint this as racist... probably. Are they wrong, I don't really know.

And also, I'd recomend some people realize the term is misused and can be misundertood, especially if you are representing Boston, MA, where I grew up, where people used it often as a racial slur.

[TheCowsCameHome]

94. It was simply a book every family read to their kids,

along with many others that would be considered unacceptable today.

What a shame everything has to be sooooo correct in the eyes of some these days.

[stepnw1f]

113. Not My Doing

Bigots twist everything to suit their needs regardless of the consequences.

"What a shame everything has to be sooooo correct in the eyes of some these days."

Who is this referring to?

[TheCowsCameHome]

157. I wasn't referring to you. It's just so frustrating. Just a general *sigh*

Nothing seems to be taken at face value these days. Welcome to life in 2006, I guess.

[LostinVA]

85. I didn't take it that way

I just think it's interesting I never heard it sued that way. Maybe it's more of a regional thing?

[stepnw1f]

114. Cool..

I didn't want you think I was. I am under the impression it is a regional thing. I grew up in a moderately tough neighborhood in the city. And even though it has always been somewhat mixed, teens of the same race tended to be gaurded against other races. Sad, but it is true...

[Milspec]

107. I to have heard it as a racial slur

but in this case the term seems to fit the original meaning.

[stepnw1f]

111. I Have to Agree with That (nt)

[TheCowsCameHome]

43. In the 50's it wasn't racist. The story has been badly twisted since then

to become associated as a racial issue.

[karlrschneider]

58. Conservatives want to burn Tom Sawyer, liberals would set

Uncle Remus afire. Talk about anal...

[XemaSab]

68. Many Liberals would also set Huck Finn afire, mind you

n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

115. What's with the attack on liberals?

I haven't seen anybody say anything about burning books.

[XemaSab]

161. It seems like it's a good combination of liberals and conservatives

who want to keep "Huck Finn" down. The first because of the word "nigger," the second because there's a runaway slave in the book. :P

[ckramer]

29. He just ruined his chance to be the president

Haha, How politically naive!

[mainer]

30. It's a literary allegory that's in the cultural mainstream

And anyone with an ounce of cultural literacy would understand it has no racist implications. Why can't he (or anyone else, for that matter) use the term?

[LostinVA]

37. I agree n/t

[TheCowsCameHome]

45. Original story suggested getting into a quagmire, nothing racist about it.

Not any more, evidently.

[Occulus]

49. I'm getting the impression from Certain Parties on this thread

that some people WANT it to be a racist slur.

[Gully Foyle]

70. Yep

Give that man a ceegar!

[KittyWampus]

81. I actually think you're right! Some DU'ers seem to WANT it to be a slur

which is sad.

Even when someone ignorantly MIGHT use it as a slur (out of context meaning something other than a quagmire) why not turn that back on the fool attempting that? Why not expose their ignorance and make several points at once?

[Igel]

88. Back in the '80s

the notion of cultural literacy was itself assumed to have racist implications.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

90. Cultural literacy...

The tarbaby and "brer" stories come from a white man named Harris(?) who is said to have "collected" the stories from African American sources and told them from the perspective of a a fictional "Uncle Remus." The wise old black uncle is also a racist stereotype, occuring often in period literature and minstrel type shows. Harris himself was a noted slavery apologist and racist.

The stories got popular again in the fifties with Disney's Song of the South. Which they don't like to talk about much, since it's so racist.

[mainer]

118. "wise old uncle" is a racist stereotype?

So if he'd made him an idiot young black nephew, it would've been okay? Since when did "wise and old" become a bad stereotype for ANY ethnic group? I highly doubt that Asian Americans would object to a "wise old Chinese uncle" appearing in someone's story.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

120. So is the "big fat aunt"

and the "magic negro" commonly found in Hollywood movies. For example: that one with Will Smith playing the magic negro golf caddy.

If you're genuinely interested in African American stereotypes, you can find out more at the Jim Crow Museum.

http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/

[mainer]

121. So what is NOT a racist stereotype?

If a novelist was going to write about a black person relaying stories from his/her African heritage, what would NOT cross the boundaries of racial stereotypes? It appears that he/she can't be:

old/wise
old/stupid
young/brash
young/stupid
any age/magical
any female/overweight
any female/ seductive
any female/subservient
any male/subservient

I mean -- WHAT THE HELL IS LEFT if everything is a racist stereotype?!!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

122. You tell me.

[mainer]

123. Clearly no one should be writing about black characters at all

Because no matter how you describe them, they're a racial stereotype in someone's book.

Better that blacks remain invisible in literature and movies.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

126. Why so defensive?

It's not difficult to avoid racist stereotypes.

[mainer]

129. By your standards it is impossible to avoid racial stereotypes

Because it appears there's no way for writers or movie makers to come up with a character that isn't a stereotype in your book.
I'm in the entertainment industry, and I'm not white. I make every attempt in my creative work to bridge the racial gap, from writing about mixed couples to including multi-ethnic characters in my stories. And yes, sometimes I use wise black people and sometimes I use wise asians and dumb cops and smart cops. But if I was to avoid anything on that list that you consider racist (wise old black guys, motherly black aunts, cute black chicks) I don't see that there's much left to write about. And believe me, rather than deal with the unpleasantness of being called "racist", most creative people would prefer to avoid the whole thing entirely and just write white characters.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

130. Bullshit.

Uncle Remus is clearly a racist stereotype of the "wise old uncle variety."

He's not a stereotype because he's old and wise and an uncle.

That's a strawman.

[mainer]

134. You didn't say Uncle Remus. You said "wise black uncle"

>>The wise old black uncle is also a racist stereotype<<

If it was just Uncle Remus we were talking about, I might agree with you, because he is a specific character. But you included all wise old black guys as being forbidden characters for anyone to write about. Which, one would conclude, means you don't believe there are actually any wise old black uncles around.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

136. Uncle Remus was clearly who I was referring to.

Why be obtuse?

[mainer]

138. This is a great example of why writers avoid black characters

We can't win. No matter how we portray them.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

139. Oh baloney.

[ariesgem]

149. Why is it that writers in the entertainment industry

believe that the character's in a story has to have a color attached to it?

[mainer]

150. Because casting directors need to know

and because sometimes color is necessary to understanding character development.

A black man and a white man might react to a crisis situation (say, getting stopped by a cop) in entirely different ways.

Certainly in novels, readers like to be able to picture a character. And race is part of the description, along with sex and age. If you're going to mention that a man is fat, you might also want to add that he's got a red nose and he waddles and he has man-breasts. It's all part of description. To leave out race (which is so much a part of our self-image) is to leave out a vital part of his character.

[fishwax]

170. harris's collection of stories were themselves an apologetic for slavery

He said in the foreward to his first collection that he saw his depiction of his black characters as a defense of slavery as it existed in the south, through the wise old black uncle who "has nothing but pleasant memories of the discipline of slavery."

[Tracer]

40. So ... the best thing for Mitt is to "stay away from the Big Dig"? ...

Gee ... wasn't he JUST LAST WEEK hogging the photo-ops down in the tunnel, waltzing around in his hard hat, claiming to take charge of the investigation, showing off his drawings of the failed tunnel bolts, and hounding Amorello out of his job?

The two-faced s**t ALWAYS says one thing in Massachusetts and another thing when out of state.

He must have been channelling Tony Snow re the "tar baby" incident.

[warrens]

51. Much ado about nothing

It's not a racist comment, in the sense he used it, as in the old Uncle Remus story. However, since the Repukes would think nothing of making hay out of this, I hope this, ahem, STICKS to him.

[jollyreaper2112]

77. It's one of those tricky comments

The first place I ever heard it was in the Bre'er Rabbit stories. That and "don't throw me in that thair briar patch!" made an early impression. Never thought of it as racist.

Someone else brought up the term "guinea picnic" as a racist term heard from a grandmother and never realized what it meant. As a kid, I would have assumed it meant you were eating a rodent for a meal, a guinea pig.

There was another discussion on here concerning the word "niggardly" and how a staffer got into trouble for using it in a meeting. The word means "miserly" and doesn't even bear the same entymology as "nigger." What I loved was the NAACP's reaction to this. They said something along the lines of "The people flipping out about this are the ones looking like 'niggers.' Read a dictionary, then start fighting racism where it really is, not where it isn't."

There was another bit of crosscultural stuff I remember reading here. Some people from the south call brazil nuts "nigger toes." This one DU'er had an encounter with a black coworker where she felt embarassment because the nuts came up in some context, she had no idea what a safe name for them was and so had to ask that coworker what she called them. The coworker shrugged. "We always called them nigger toes, don't know why."

I think the hangup on words is stupid anyway. Every Republican out there will take great pains to call blacks "African-Americans." Does that mean they don't still think of blacks as niggers? Not a bit. It's a false civility, it's dishonest. And let's not kid ourselves, working-class white people. Does the farmer really care if his cow is brown, black or white? A cow is a cow and he owns it. Rednecks and Klanners may see a difference between the "white master race" and "niggers" but let me tell you something, our corporate masters are not racist, they are colorblind. Red and yellow black and white, we're all niggers in their sight, business enslaves the children of the world.

[Syrinx]

78. big damn deal

who cares

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

83. Tarbaby...

A small black child that might look cute but should be avoided.

[Igel]

91. It's not a child.

It's a doll.

And it's not to be avoided because it's black.

Fox is lurking in the bushes. He's invited rabbit over for dinner, and rabbit's declined. Fox makes tarbaby. Rabbit walks by and demands that tarbaby show proper respect, and answer when addressed. Tarbaby can't, it's a doll. Arrogant rabbit gets testy and strikes the tarbaby. The more he struggles, the more stuck he becomes. Then fox comes out and says that surely rabbit will be at his place for dinner that night. Moral: Arrogance can blind you and lead you to your downfall.

As for why tarbaby's black, it's possibly background. Folktale told by blacks can't have black people in it? Alternatively, there is some "arrogant white, silent but tenacious black man" meaning in it (I find it a bit of a stretch, but why not?).

A little knowledge ... prevents a lot of strange assumptions.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

93. Looks like a child to brer rabbit.

And it's to be avoided because it's dirty and it won't go away after you get tired of it.

[mike923]

97. The more you struggle with it, the more stuck you become to it...

which is exactly what Mitt was referring to in regards to the Big Dig.

[TheCowsCameHome]

102. I guess that's considered inappropriate these days.

Sad.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

103. The more it becomes stuck to you...

the more you want to get rid of it.

Which was sort of the white view on black children in those days. Particularly the black children fathered by white people.

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

100. Its an allegory

If this were a realistic story, then neither the rabbit nor the fox would talk and then you wold have no story.


From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anansi

Anansi is one of the most important gods of west African lore.

The only time Anansi himself was tricked when he tried to fight a tar baby after trying to steal food, but became stuck to it instead. The "tar-baby" tale appears in a variety of ethnic African folklore contexts.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

104. I agree it's an allegory.

If it were just a baby made out of tar it wouldn't have the obvious racial implications.

[Occulus]

101. Or maybe it's black because that's the color of TAR.

The origins of this story lie in Africa.

THEREFORE,

Those who are saying this is a racist term.... well.... I don't know what else to say. They're just wrong.

(Why are some people unable to understand this? Not you; you obviously DO 'get it', but geez...)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

105. Why are some people unable to understand...

that just because it was a beloved childhood storybook that doesn't mean it's not racist?

[Occulus]

106. It was an African story before that

Are we truly calling stories with African origins racist?

What rabbit hole have I fallen through today?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

108. Of course the original African story wasn't racist.

However, Joel Harris was a racist. His collection of stories was racist. Disney's Song of the South was racist. The use of "tar baby" as an epithet is racist. Racists who use "tar baby" as code are racist. And Tony Snow and Mit Romney are both racists.

This isn't something that's difficult to understand. A black person who rides a horse is not racist. This however, is:

[stepnw1f]

116. ahhhhhh... See. I Learn Something Everyday Here

Now I am curious... many kids in the neighborhood I grew up with unfortunately did use it as a racial slur. Now I kinda see where it came from for them. Thank you.

[saigon68]

119. Looks like the Law Jockey Liberation League needs to pay a visit

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

137. Yours is another fine example of PC gone amok and getting it wrong

That statue has NOTHING to do with making fun of black people riding horses.

The origin and historical use of that item as well is not a racist one.

It was used to signal safe houses along the underground railroad and legend has it that the original was commisioned by George Washington to honor Jocko Graves, a young African-American boy who froze to death guarding the horses as the Continental Army crossed the Delaware. Washington used the story to inspire dedication and loyalty among his men.

Hardly racist.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

140. Well, origins are one thing, aren't they?

Because Lawn Jockeys are mostly certainly racist now.

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

141. Because of misguided PC Police

N/T

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

142. "PC police"

That's usually the sort of thing racists go on about after they've been confronted for their racism. The sort of people who have lawn jockeys on their yard and think that they're "hardly racist."

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

145. Hahaha

Calling me racist. SO now I'm a racist without even knowing it? Or wait, I'm a racist who doesn't want anyone to know I'm a racist. Please tell me which I am.

Here, historians have a more empowering take on the statue. According to Elise Harding-Davis, curator of the North American Black Historical Museum and Cultural Centre in Amherstburg, near Windsor, lawn jockeys were universally despised by the Canadian black community until the mid 70s. But "having done further research, we found that they were actually based on small children who stood in front of friendly stations on the underground railroad. They carried lanterns to signal a safe stop.

"Many people think of the jockeys as ornaments, something displayed to disrespect black people. But we tell everyone to look behind negative stories like that,'' she says. "Once they discover that the jockeys symbolize a positive, courageous part of our history, they can take pride in them.''

[mainer]

148. I didn't know the history at all. Thanks for the info.

Although I still wouldn't want one on my front lawn.

[fishwax]

171. are you implying that the meanings of symbols and words might change over

time? Who knew? :shrug::sarcasm:

[LostinVA]

132. It is an AFRICAN folktale as told by American slaves

As, sometimes "tarbaby" was refused to as a "Gumbaby."

Tarbaby isn't "black" he's the color black, because tar is -- because tar is sticky...

[fishwax]

172. actually, as told by a white apologist for slavery using the voice of a

former slave who has "nothing but pleasant memories of the discipline of slavery."

It's true that the brer rabbit stories "originate" in African American folklore. However, the uncle remus stories (uncle remus being the invention of joel chandler harris)--which have been the primary source for mainstream american culture's understanding of and approach to the brer rabbit stories--have a complicated racial history.

[napi21]

84. What circle do these Pubs circulate in? Tony Snow got into the

same hot watter for saying the SAME THING when he first took his job as Press Sec.

I haven't heard that name used in over 50 years! Why is it a common response in Pub circles??

[unda cova brutha]

98. I find it highley offensive

[Subdivisions]

124. You have no reason to be...

offended. Romney used the phrase in context to its meaning: a sticky situation. I'm sure he didn't mean to offend African-Americans. To what end would that benefit?

[unda cova brutha]

146. the man should think before he talks

[stepnw1f]

158. Nah... thinkin' is too PC

forget what people think, especially when you are a public figure. It's cool to be "unPC". :sarcasm:

See, if people were thinking, they would never have voted for Bush....

[unda cova brutha]

162. the people didnt vote for *

he was appointed by the corrupt suprem court.

[stepnw1f]

165. I Stand Corrected

but still, some did vote for Dumbya.

[-..__...]

109. The only ones that need to be upset are the PC police.

Of course then they justify their outrage by ignorantly replying that the actual/original definition of the term is outdated, hence the use of the term "tar baby" must be racist in nature.

I wonder what peoples reaction would be if romney or any other politician said that the tax payers got "gypped" on the Big Dig project?

[Occulus]

110. Like I said earlier... they WANT it to be a racist term

For whatever reason. I certainly don't consider it such, maybe because I know of the story's African origins.

They probably feel the same about the phrase "pot, meet kettle, kettle, this is pot."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

112. Why would anybody want it to be a racist term?

I can think of several reasons why people would want to think it wasn't a racist term. Not the other way around.

[mike923]

125. People like to complain*

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

127. Yeah, I've heard that a lot.

Often when black people complain about racism, there's a lot of white people around saying things like "oh, he's just looking for trouble" or "they're just a bunch of uppity whiners who don't have anything better to do but complain."

I remember hearing that a lot during Katrina. Especially with regards to Kanye West.

Of course, I've heard it plenty of other times too.

[mike923]

152. You are the one who said it wasn't a racist term.

I'm all for giving hell to a potential GOP candidate for President. If we can pin the label "racist" on him, whether true or not, we come out ahead.

[LostinVA]

133. Omarosa tried to make that into a racist thing

But, Omarosa is kinda nuts.

[superconnected]

128. I have only known the word tar baby as a racist comment.

It does not read racist at first glance, or does it, I still thought of a black child when reading the words.

It's saying a tar baby is a euthanism for a problem - like black sheep is a euthanism for an outcast. Only here it is used more directly saying the big dip is all the problems of a black child.
How many blacks do you think are going to have a literary education to not think it was meant as a racial slur.

"The best thing for me to do politically is stay away from the Big Dig -- just get as far away from that tar baby as I possibly can,"

[Name removed]

135. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[superconnected]

144. Yeah, but the people are picking out a known racial slur.

Tar baby has been used in the past as refering to a black person, regardless of other meanings it has.

Ignoring that, using words like tar baby, and then brushing off the people complaining about it as too sensitive, really DOES deserve the consideration that the person doing this is likely a racist.

[SKKY]

156. I think it's absolutely unthinkable that anyone over the age of 30...

...would have no idea what the term "tar baby" means. What's wrong with these people?

[onenote]

173. darn that unthinking Molly Ivins

http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/1/2001/650

And darn these DUer (why didn't someone call them on their use of the term tar baby?)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... (post 4)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... (post 16)


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... (post 6)

[Throd]

159. I'll admit to using that term on occasion

It is always in reference to a project that ends up being more difficult than it is worth.

[MissMillie]

163. I don't think Romney meant it as a racial slur, but it will be seen

way.

I have to wonder, however, how that term even came into his brain. It wouldn't have ever entered into mine.

[LibertyLover]

174. I was not aware that the word "tarbaby" was considered racist

as I had only heard it used to refer to situations or concepts that were problematic and, well, sticky, nor was I aware that it was used to refer to darker complected African-Americans (although I have heard an African-American collegue, talking to a friend, describe one of our African lawyers as "black as pitch"). It's not a word that I generally use in conversations, but I'll have to watch out for it.

What about the phrase "tarred with the same brush"? Is that likewise a problem phrase? I had always thought that it came from the punishment of tarring and feathering - ie you held the same beliefs as someone who was punished by tarring and feathering and could be similarly punished or you did not agree with them and so should not be lumped in with them.

[420inTN]

175. I am familar with both meanings of the term

I don't believe that Romney meant it in a racial context.

This brouhaha is almost as ridiculous as the case of the DC City financial bureaucrat who was fired for using the word "niggardly".

[Stuckinthebush]

176. I have to say...I don't think it is racist at all

Tarbaby is simply the name given to an inanimate person-like sculpture made out of tar. When Brer Rabbit didn't get a response from the tarbaby, he hit it foolishly, then continued to hit it once he got into the mess. It is an analogy for a mess that one can't get untangled from.

I have to defend Mitt (god that hurts) on this one. Not racist at all in my opinion.