LAT: Churches Putting Texas Town Out of Business

[DeepModem Mom]

Churches Putting Town Out of Business
Stafford, Texas, has 51 tax-exempt religious institutions and wants no more: `Somebody's got to pay for police, fire and schools.'
By Lianne Hart, Times Staff Writer
July 31, 2006

STAFFORD, Texas — They are not the words one expects to hear from a politician or a Southerner, and Leonard Scarcella is both: "Our city has an excessive number of churches."

Scarcella is mayor of this Houston-area community, which has 51 churches and other religious institutions packed into its 7 square miles.

With some 300 undeveloped, potentially revenue-producing acres left in Stafford, officials are scrambling to find a legal way to keep more tax-exempt churches from building here.

"With federal laws, you can't just say, 'We're not going to have any more churches,' " Scarcella said. "We respect the Constitution, but 51 of anything is too much."

Stafford, population 19,227, is the largest city in Texas without a property tax, and it depends on sales taxes and business fees for revenue. Nonprofits have been attracted by its rapid growth and minimal deed restrictions. "It's thrown everything out of balance, plus providing zero revenue. Somebody's got to pay for police, fire and schools," City Councilman Cecil Willis said....

http://www.latimes.com/business/taxes/la-na-churches31jul31,0,406070.story?track=mostviewed-homepage

[Uppanotch]

1. Leonard Scarcello is a good man. I know him. nt

nt

[Lars39]

2. More about who attends:

"As best as we've been able to determine, the overwhelming majority of people who attend here don't even live in Stafford; they're coming from everywhere else," Willis said. Elsewhere includes Houston, about 15 miles northeast, and nearby Sugar Land.

[VegasWolf]

3. This one's easy!! Let god handle all of the fire and police issues. nt

[Freedom_from_Chains]

10. Your house is on fire.

Pray for rain.

[OregonBlue]

36. Exactly, let them fight their own fires. If the community cannot afford

these churches, let them step up to the plate and do their own dirty work, supply their own services. Keep up their own roads, supply their own paramedics, etc.

[Tight_rope]

4. I have lots of friends and family that live in Stafford.

They moved there because of the low/no tax rates. I don't think they know their taxes are on the rise. I better warn them.

[LisaM]

5. Are they Libertarians?

how do they expect to pay for their infrastructure?

[Ian David]

6. The Flying Spaghetti Monster shall place a noodly appendage upon Stafford

and declare, "Upon this meatball I build my church."

[purji]

19. Ramen N/T

[Solly Mack]

7. lolololololol

Whodda thunk it? Somebody has to pay for police, fire and schools. Wow

51 churches in 7 square miles? Wow. I know growing up in Georgia, we used to joke that you couldn't go a block without running into a church, but that was an exaggeration - sometimes you had to go two blocks.(and then there were the dueling dewberry baptists - but that's another story)

[dbackjon]

8. Good for him bringing that up

This is actually a major problem in more than just this town - but politicians (especially here in the South) are deathly afraid to touch it.

Nashville is FULL of tax-exempt organizations, mostly religious, than strain the infrastructure, but pay no taxes - churches, colleges, etc.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

9. Not since we are now officially a Christian Nation.

:sarcasm:

[Charlie Brown]

11. I think using eminent domain would be a good solution to this problem

The city can relocate the churches beyonod the town-limits, and join with a private contractor if they can't afford it.

Then, hopefully, they can pass stricter building codes to discourage large worship centers.

Everyone wins.

[Ian David]

21. They could un-incorporate the land where all the churches are n/t

[Nabia2004]

12. At least 27 Churches in my old home town

This in the small city of Mountlake Terrace, Washington. About 5 square miles in size. Most are found on the cities main street. Its freaky as hell, 2 to 3 per city block. This is a small place, there may be more churches than tax paying businesses. I know there is if you measure it in square footage. The City council has been trying to put a stop on any more, but it seems like each year a new one goes up.

[sandnsea]

13. We have 18 for 8,000 people

And we're not a very churchy town, although we do have a lot of old people who may tilt the balance a little. Then again, once you get your basic soul groups, it ought to take a while until you need to add another completely building. I think 51 flavors means people aren't seeking "God's Word" at all, but really want a place to have their own beliefs validated.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

14. ...or their own money sheltered.

[sandnsea]

16. Well sure

I imagine there's lots of was to shelter money within a "church", for everybody involved.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

23. Right smack dab in the middle of it.

It's an honor.

[illumn8d]

15. Why is levying a property tax not an option?

The article doesn't even address that.

[Charlie Brown]

20. It sounds like the churches have monopolized city land

and they are tax-exempt.

[happyslug]

27. No, the City Father do NOT want to adopt a Property Tax.

And when you have a Revenue Shortfall you do not want to blame the Voters nor the business people who lobby you. Once you eliminate those two that leaves the Churches, no matter how many or how few exist. This city will have to adopt a Property tax sooner or later, but like most such adoption they will blame everyone before doing so.

[Wednesdays]

17. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em...

Declare the entire town a church and pass around a gigantic collection plate.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

18. Time to put an end to religious tax-exempt status.

The Jesus biz is big business!

[VegasWolf]

22. I volunteer to be a priest in the Church of the Democratic Underground.

For tax purposes of course!

[Baselinereality]

24. Hard to Believe a Society Needs a Tax Base, Huh?

And those die-hard Republicans thought it was all just a dirty liberal trick to take their money from them and their Jesus.

Perhaps this will be a historical day when Texas starts to figure out there is more to good livin' than just Jesus and bar-b-que.

But now I am kinda curious to discover just how quickly 51 churches in a 7 mile radius would take to burn without a fire department. Not that I'm advocating arson, mind you. But I would like to know if Jesus likes to play jokes with lightning bolts.

And one final observation:

In a town that inundated with houses of worship, one way to maximize their tax revenue from the remaining acreage would be to build as many strip clubs as possible. People surrounded by that much piety love a good pole dance.

[kestrel91316]

25. Dear Stafford, TX: I have a great solution to the problem.

Why don't you just "privatize" the fire, police, etc? Let those who can pay for the services receive the services, and those who can't don't. It's real simple, and that way the budgets of the richest folks won't be strained (can't have them giving up the caviar and champagne, now, can we?).

[Kailassa]

34. Australian fire services were privately owned a century ago,

I don't know about American ones.

The businesse sold fire insurance, and if you had a fire you called the fire service you were insured with to put it out. Competition in the business lead to the various groups of fire fighters sabataging each others' fire engines, and getting to the other team's fire first, and preventing the insured company from getting their truck there, and making the house-owner change his policy over and pay them before they put it out.

Of course it was not unknown for them to light the fires themselves, either.

[happyslug]

26. Earlier thread from same source.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1778468

Please note the the City is the LARGEST CITY IN TEXAS WITHOUT PROPERTY TAXES. Thus the fact that the Church's are TAX EXEMPT from property taxation is having NO AFFECT on the City Budget. The Problem appears to be that the City has ground so large it needs to adopt a PROPERTY TAX but it does not want to.

At the present time the city revenue is from the Sales Tax AND the business privilege tax (along with any deed transfer tax). Thus the fact that it has 52 Churches is NOT affecting its tax base, for when it comes to property it has none.

My impression of this comment is the City Council is upset that it has a revenue shortfall and wants to blame everyone except its Voters and its Businesses (which leaves the Churches). Sooner or later it will have to do what every other City in Texas has done, adopt a property tax. They do NOT want to so are blaming everyone but themselves.

[R Hickey]

28. The superstition industry is big business and should be taxed.

Why should an organization that claims to espouse make-believe get a tax exemption? We need a constitutional ammendment to tax the churches. Letting crooks like Reverend Moon, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell get by without paying any taxes, is a sin.

[midnight armadillo]

29. "Tax the FUCK out of the churches!"

To quote Frank Zappa.

[krkaufman]

30. Chuckle. Sounds like they've created the problem themselves. n/t

[noonwitch]

31. It is probably good for the local Waffle House and IHOP, though

my first job was waiting tables at an IHOP in a city with a lot of churches. The after church crowd is good for the breakfast business. We would get packed from 11 am to around 2pm on Sundays-the trucker crowd was earlier, like 6am to 9am.

[Ezlivin]

32. When tax receipts fall too low even Repubs turn on the churches

I live next to Southlake, Texas, a very upscale town (average house cost is over $400). They have had a development bonanza with lots of gated communities and a Town Square with tenants like Apple Computer, the Hilton and Jos A Bank.

Since it's the South, churches are springing up everywhere. And that has finally posed a problem to this fast-growing town: It threatens the handsome tax base. (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-churchforum_27wes.ART.West.Edition1.40a956b.html)

It does seem reasonable to start enacting property taxes on churches.

[happyslug]

37. Why just Churches?

Read the article, the City had NO PROPERTY TAXES AT ALL, thus if you want "Property taxes on churches" don't you think you should at least also tax business and residential property?

[Ezlivin]

38. I meant in general

I was referring to churches in general, not just in the area mentioned by the article.

[MissMillie]

33. Put all the churches on one street and then make it a toll road

:shrug:

[Kailassa]

35. For as long as churches are tax-exempt, .

church and state are not being kept separate.

Even Jesus said, "render to Caeser that which is Caeser's."