Breaking: Israel prepares wider ground offensive

[gp]

JERUSALEM - Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is dissatisfied with the emerging cease-fire deal and told his defense minister in a meeting Friday to get ready for a wider ground offensive in Lebanon, a senior Israeli official said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060811/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel

[whosinpower]

1. Can I say it?

Told ya so.

[madrchsod]

2. get your wallets out folks

those cluster bombs are on the way as we type!

[Tom Joad]

5. Every Democrat in the Senate supports this atrocity.

Read about the few in the House who do not
http://www.pdamerica.org/articles/news/members-sign-res450.php

[cali]

36. Close to true but

both Senator Hagel and Senator Leahy have called for an immediate ceasefire.

[mom cat]

55. Check out Tasini running for the Senate in NY.

[Tom Joad]

3. Internationals prepare to deliver aid to Lebanon, risk Israeli attack.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1883374&mesg_id=1883374

Or here is a link in its compact form. Tell your friends.
http://tinyurl.com/qcv3r

[frankieT]

4. i don't understand how it's possible

The UN deal is approved by US. US is deciding here. If Bush wants the thing to stop he can do it. If the offensive goes on, it means that US double-crossed UN (not the first time)

[Oversea Visitor]

6. There is no UN resolution yet

This guys all playing with Damn BIG fire.

[leesa]

11. We're sending them weapons as we speak. You really think we want this to

end? Our goal is to goad Iran and/or Syria into war. We want Israel to continue to abuse Lebanon until her neighbors go for the bait.

[frankieT]

20. I don't think its the primary goal

US don't need that to confront Syria or Iran, Bush can make up a lot of excuses to attack them.
The stated goal was destroying Hezbollah without harming Lebanese and arab allies to much : it failed totally.

[Oversea Visitor]

7. At this rate I think there

is not much chance of a diplomatic solution :(

[jpkenny]

8. What politicians won't do to save their asses.

I don't see how American Jews who live in the comfort and safety of America can sit by and actually condone Israel's crimes against humanity. And this is not an apology for Hizbollah attacks on Israel but for God's sake look at what is really happening: a nation is being destroyed before our very eyes, people are being starved of food and water, innocents are being killed in the most horrendous ways, a beautiful and nation of Christian, Jews, and Muslims is being destroyed and all Israeli supporters can say is Israel has a right to defend itself. There were no rockets from Hizbollah until Israel refused to negotiate prisoner exchange and started bombing in Lebanon. It is not something that was so unreasonable since Israeli, contrary to what they might like to say publicly, they have negotiated prisoner exchanges before. It is now looking more and more like this carnage in Lebanon has been planned since Syria withdrew from Lebanon.

THEY DON'T HATE US FOR WHO WE ARE OR WHAT WE HAVE. THEY HATE US FOR WHAT WE DO!!!

[furman]

14. Hezbollah has been firing rockets for several years

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/hizattacks1.html

Here are the most recent prior to July 12:

27 May 2006 - An IDF soldier was wounded when Katyushas were fired at an army base at Mt. Meron in the upper Galilee.

27 Dec 2005 - A branch of a Palestinian organization connected to Al-Qaida fired 6 Katyushas, damaging a house in Kiryat Shmona and a house in Metulla. In response, the IAF attacked a training base of the Popular Front, south of Beirut.

21 Nov 2005 - An attempt to kidnap an IDF soldier was foiled. Afterward, Hizballah launched a barrage of mortars and Katyusha rockets that injured nine soldiers and two civilians.

[frankieT]

18. why don't you list IDF violations of territory and attacks

in Lebanon since 2000 ?????

[GeorgiaDem69]

26. List of Hezbollah terrorist attacks

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/hizattacks1.html

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/hizattacks.html

"Hezbollah attacks on civilian targets prompted the United States to label the group a terrorist organization. In 1985 three members of the group hijacked a TWA flight and killed Navy diver on board. The group also was involved in the 1992 bombing of the Israeli embassy in Argentina that killed 29 and the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center that killed 85, according to the U.S. State Department. Hezbollah denied involvement in the 1994 attack. In June 1996, the group bombed a U.S. military housing complex in Saudi Arabia, killing 19 U.S. servicemen and wounding 370. Fourteen Hezbollah operatives were later indicted for that attack."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/17/AR2006071700912.html

[frankieT]

28. Yeah we live in a dream world

where flattening entire civil areas leaving 10000's of civilians dead is MORALLY superior to terrorism.

Your words are empty, people in Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan despise terrorism but they know that your democratic-self-defense-bombing is WORSE ! I hope someday honest people will wake up and understand that.

You keep twisting the truth, but your democratic-self-righteous terror won't break the will of people, you will have to find a final solution to the "arab problem". I'm sure you'll picture it in a positive way.

[furman]

30. 10000's of civilians dead?? You're off by several thousand

Please get your facts straight.

Is it moral for the world to let Hezbollah, a designated terrorist organization, thrive and build up their armaments even though UN Resolution 1559 called for Hezbollah to be disarmed?
It is for this reason why Israel is doing the job now, because no one else cared enough except the useless UNIFIL force.

Is it moral for Hezbollah to use civilians as shields, place their arms supplies in densely populated areas, and continue to shoot thousands of rockets towards Israel in order to maximize civilian casualties?

Here, read this article to get a picture of what Hezbollah morality is all about.
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/harold_evans/2006/08/we_are_all_hizbullah_now_reall.html

[atreides1]

51. Morality isn't something that either side has a lot of.

First of all drop the morality card, no one has the moral ground in this current battle, both sides are guilty of killing civilians.

Was it moral for Israel to force Palestinians off of their lands and out of their homes? Or is that a good thing because the Israelis did it? Was it moral for Israeli terrorists to blow up the King David Hotel or for them to assassinate Count Folke Bernadotte of Wisborg.

Have you ever heard of the Irgun, or the Stern Group who were also called the Lehi? Jewish terror groups!!!


As for Hezbollah being designated a terrorist organization, well here's a list of the countries that do and to the extant that they do.

United States The organization Hezbollah in full.
Canada The organization Hezbollah in full
Israel The organization Hezbollah in full
United Kingdom The Hezbollah External Security Organization
Netherlands The organization Hezbollah in full
Australia The Hezbollah External Security Organization
European Union The EU does not consider Hezbollah, or any group within it, a terrorist organization. The EU Parliament passed a resolution recognizing "clear evidence" of "terrorist activities by Hezbollah". The EU Council does list a Hezbollah's senior intelligence officer - Imad Mugniyah as a terrorist.


UN Resolution 1559:
"calls upon all remaining foreign forces to withdraw from Lebanon" and "for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias."

See, Hezbollah wasn't specifically named in the document.

What about UN Resolution 425? In reality it only took Israel from 1982 until 2000 to comply with that resolution!

[plasticsundance]

23. Ah ... the old al-Qaeda card.

During all those dates you listed Israel has been occupying the Sheeba Farmlands, and in 2001 caused major agitation when Sharon visted the Temple of the Mount. In addition, Israel raids and locks up Lebanese, including a secular Druze supporting the Palestinian cause.

Oh yeah, let's not forget that only several weeks ago the Israeli Air Force flew over the Syrian president's residence. What was up with violating Syrian air space?

[furman]

29. Ah ... the old Shebaa Farms card

Shebaa Farms is internationally recognized as part of Syria, not Lebanon.
Israel completely withdrew from Lebanon in 2000.
Hezbollah uses Shebaa Farms as a pretext for their attacks on Israelis.

The flyover in Syria was a warning because Syria is suspected harboring Hamas leaders responsible for the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier in June.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150885870124&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

The IDF said the flyover, carried out by four planes flying in a low-altitude pattern, was a part of an overall IDF operation aimed at pressuring the Syrian leadership to expel Hamas Politburo chief Khaled Mashaal from Damascus.

According to Israel, Mashaal has been calling the shots out of the Syrian capital and orchestrated the kidnapping of IDF soldier Gilad Shalit.

[plasticsundance]

35. That's right ... the Shebaa Farmlands ... and more

If it is internationally recognized as being part of Syria, why is it being occupied by Israel? :shrug:

I fail to see your point of justification. The Shebaa Farmlands are part of the Golan Heights, and the international community also recognizes the Golan Height as belonging to Syria, but it is occupied by Israel. Israel annexed its part of the Golan Heights, but it does belong to Syria as even recognized by the UN today. In addition, remember UN Resolution 3240 for Israel's destruction of Al Qunaytirah. Israel loves for the international community to have a short memory. Israel is always correct, just as long you follow the timeline presented by Israel.

And violating a sovereign nation's air space because one merely suspects that nation of something, is beyond lame in offering a justification.

[frylock]

46. take a look at the dates just prior to the events you've listed..

and I'll bet you dollars to donuts that the IDF pulled some shit to instigate the rocket launchings and attempted seizures (sorry, but soldiers aren't "kidnapped").

[LostinVA]

54. Thank you -- the "kidnapped" thing drives me bonkers

Soldiers are captured. Civilians are kidnapped.

[Nimrod2005]

21. Nice post...Agree.

[ananda]

50. Yep. By their works..

.. shall ye know them.

[rodeodance]

9. this wi why the push is NOW:

US and Lebanon say ceasefire deal in sight

By Evelyn Leopold and Irwin Arieff 8 minutes ago

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The United States and Lebanon said on Friday a deal on a U.N. resolution to end
Israel's month-old war with Hizbollah guerrillas was in sight.
ADVERTISEMENT


But Israel told the United States it would not automatically accept any such resolution, Israeli television said.

"We are now very, very close to agreement and our aspiration to have a vote at the end of the afternoon remains," Washington's U.N. envoy John Bolton told reporters.

Britain's ambassador Emyr Jones Parry backed Bolton's view.

U.S. Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice flew to New York in anticipation of a vote on ending the war, in which at least 1,026 people in Lebanon and 123 Israelis have been killed.

[rodeodance]

10. link for above

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060811/pl_nm/mideast_dc

[azurnoir]

27. As this latest escalation is in

progress something should be noted; I have read repeatedly here how Israel is just a tiny country about the size of New Jersey and is just trying to protect itself. What is never mentioned is that Lebanon is actually smaller than Israel: Israel 8,019 sq mi(including Golan Heights, but not the West Bank or Gaza) Lebanon: 4,035 sq mi total.
So the question should be asked why does Israel decide to invade the only country in the region smaller than it self? Why if Israel has such a powerful military did it not invade say Syria or Iran who are Hezbollahs suppliers and will almost certainly shelter Hezbollah personal if need be? Maybe Israel's supporters should stop and ask if Israel had invaded Syria or Iran maybe the outrage would not exist. What it could appear is that Israel chose the soft target and in doing so has made it self appear a brutal bully and has all but destroyed what was the best hope for an open stable democracy in the area. Why?

[gp]

12. FOXNEWS TV "OLMERT GIVING THE GO AHEAD TO LAUNCH MAJOR GROUND OFFENSIVE"

I'm been reading all kinds of reports these last weeks that the military brass in Israel was extremely unhappy with Olmert's 'indesiciveness' in handling this campaign.

From the IDF's point of view, the UN proposal that would have been voted on today, would have meant a painfull and unacceptable defeat (not achieving ANY of their initial objectives: return of the kidnapped soldier and disarmament of Hizbullah).

On the other hand, Bolton really seemed to insist on the UN proposal to be voted on today, wether for show or something else (the proposal doesnt specifically mention any cesation of fire). The cynic in me guesses that it would relieve the international pressure on Israel / US for at least a few more weeks.

IMHO this looks like the IDF forced Olmert's hand by issuing some kind of ultimatum.
It's hard to imagine any other scenario where Israel would go directly against US policy du jour.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[partylessinOhio]

16. It is frightful that a leader of a country is trying to prove his manhood.

Israel needs to reign in their PM.

[partylessinOhio]

15. The entire world can see and now knows where the evil is.

Israel is the blood thirsty aggressor, invader and killer of innocent people. The destruction of the infrastructure and buildings is horrific.

The UN needs to act and lay down the law to Israel to cease and desist now.

[Nimrod2005]

17. They are backed by the US veto power!!! It is time to go

back to having a balance of power in the world - Need someone somewhere to neutralize the madness of these neocons.

[GeorgiaDem69]

22. Or maybe Israel is acting appropriately

in trying to eliminate a terrorist organization. If all of you weren't sheltered behind your computers and lived in a society where Hezbollah suicide bombers had been blowing up women and children in markets, restaurants, and at weddings for the last few years you'd better understand their acts.

[Bonhomme Richard]

48. Wasn't that clinic christian bomber hiding in Georgia?

Maybe we should have just bombed Atlanta until the state of Georgia turned him over.

[Karenina]

Did you mean

exterminate?

[cali]

19. You mean like the UN

laid down the law against the blood thirsty aggressor and killer of innocent people, the US? Don't hold your breath.

[partylessinOhio]

24. Yes, the US is also a blood thirsty aggressor, invader and killer

of innocent people in Iraq. The UN was tricked into that by the phony WMD lies. The UN should act against both the US and Israel. We are supplying all the missles, tanks, bombs, planes, copters, warships and submarines. We are being played as stupid fools.

End the insanity!

[furman]

31. No, Hezbollah is the blood-thirsty aggressor. You have it all backwards

As for the UN, perhaps they should have done more to fulfill Resolution 1559 calling for the disarming of Hezbollah.

[plasticsundance]

25. It's called in need of reinforcements.

[Judi Lynn]

32. Israel Prepares Wider Ground Offensive

Israel Prepares Wider Ground Offensive
Israel Prepares Wider Ground Offensive; Prime Minister Reportedly Unhappy With Emerging Deal
By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA

JERUSALEM Aug 11, 2006 (AP)— Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is dissatisfied with the emerging cease-fire deal and told his defense minister in a meeting Friday to get ready for a wider ground offensive in Lebanon, a senior Israeli official said.

Meanwhile, Israeli airstrikes pounded south Beirut and border crossings to Syria, killing at least 14 people across Lebanon as ground fighting picked up intensity in the south.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to discuss the contents of the Olmert-Peretz meeting. It was not immediately clear whether the Israeli threat was meant to pressure the U.N. Security Council or whether Israel is determined to send troops deeper into Lebanon.

Jets struck twice at a busy bridge at the Abboudiyeh border crossing into Syria, killing at least 12 people and wounding 18 others, hospital and security officials said. The checkpoint is some 10 miles inland from the Mediterranean coast, on Lebanon's northern border.
(snip/...)

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2301461

[bluestateguy]

33. When will we see Katie Holmes and Tom Cruise's baby?

And did Brad and Angelina separate?

[et in Arcadia ego]

34. It's started..

CNN Breaking news:

"A spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert says the expanded Israeli ground offensive in Lebanon has started, The Associated Press reports."

Here we go again..

:-(

[Ghost Dog]

37. Uh huh. This was duped

because I started a new LBN thread on the actual start of the offensive, which mods moved here (#38)...

[Ghost Dog]

38. 11:29 am: Israel begins massive ground offensive in south Lebanon

http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/47756.html
By KARIN LAUB | Associated Press
August 11, 2006

JERUSALEM (AP) - Israel began an expanded ground offensive in southern Lebanon on Friday after expressing dissatisfaction over an emerging cease-fire deal, government officials said.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and his defense minister, Amir Peretz, made the decision to expand the offensive after meeting for four hours Friday. Peretz instructed the military to launch the offensive, officials said.

Olmert's spokesman, Asaf Shariv, told The Associated Press that the expanded incursion had already begun. An emerging cease-fire deal being worked out by the U.N. Security Council fails to meet Israel's basic requirements, such as stationing robust international combat troops in southern Lebanon once Israel withdraws, Shariv said.

"Yesterday we were very optimistic, but they (the Security Council) took the wrong turn," Shariv said.

The government has decided to implement a Cabinet decision on Wednesday granting the army permission to carry out a massive ground offensive "to deal with the Hezbollah positions in south Lebanon, from which barrages of missiles continue to be launched against the Israeli civilian population," said Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev.

/...

[iconoclastic cat]

39. Haven't these bozos seen Apocolypse Now?

This is going be be very, very bad.

[Ghost Dog]

40. Israel says to call off offensive if goals at UN met

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-08-11T172228Z_01_L1118927121_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST-ISRAEL.xml

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel said on Friday it would call off its expanded ground offensive in Lebanon if a U.N. resolution meets the government's goals.

"If in a couple of hours such a resolution, which really is going to meet the goals as was spelled out by the Israeli cabinet, the operation will be stopped," Gideon Meir, a senior Foreign Ministry official, told reporters. "We hope the diplomacy will prevail."

Meir said he would not discuss Israel's concerns about the existing resolution, but said negotiations were ongoing. "We are working on two tracks," he said.

Meir said Israel did not announce its decision to expand the ground offensive in order to ratchet up pressure on the U.N., calling that "a ridiculous" suggestion.

/...

But, on the other hand (cf. 'two tracks'?):

http://wpherald.com/articles/791/1/US-Israel-approve-Lebanon-cease-fire-resolution/UN-vote-could-come-Friday.html
U.S., Israel approve Lebanon cease fire resolution
By United Press International
U.N. vote could come Friday

NEW YORK -- A U.N.-authored resolution for a cease-fire in Lebanon has been approved by Israel and the United States.

Dan Gillerman, the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations, said the proposal would pave the way for the release of captive Israeli Defense Forces soldiers, the release of Lebanese prisoners and the disarming of Hezbollah, Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz reported Friday.

"It is estimated that a resolution could be voted on by Friday afternoon, and if not then on Saturday. But still, there is an attempt to reach a resolution on Friday," Gillerman said.

He said the many demands by the Lebanese government, which he said "might even be called crybaby," would not serve as the basis of the agreement.

A senior Lebanese political source said the U.N. deal would include an Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon followed by the deployment of international troops, led by French soldiers, in the country.

/...

(Re. latest US-French draft resolution see here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2451037 )

[rodeodance]

43. almost sounts like blackmail?

[Ghost Dog]

47. Yes it does, very clearly, doesn't it.

There was this:

http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?catid=138&ch=0&newsid=93905
Israel Won’t Accept Lebanon Crisis Resolution “Automatically”
11 August 2006 | 19:55 | FOCUS News Agency

Jerusalem. The Israeli authorities told Washington they will not accept “automatically” any UN Security Council resolution on the crisis in Lebanon, Reuters informs citing an Israeli TV station.
According to the information in a telephone conversation with US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice Israel’s Foreign Minister Tsipi Livni stated the resolution drafted by the UN would not be automatically accepted.

Then there was this:

http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?catid=138&newsid=93908&ch=0&datte=2006-08-11
Israel Still Interested in UN Resolution Talks: Israel’s Ambassador to UN
11 August 2006 | 20:34 | FOCUS News Agency

Jerusalem. Israel’s Ambassador to the United Nations Dan Gillerman stated that Israel still wishes to negotiate about UN’s draft resolution on the crisis in Lebanon despite the order of Israel’s Prime Minister Ehud Olmert the army to widen its ground offensive in Lebanon, Reuters informs.
“The US government is well acquainted with what we would agree on and what we would reject. I strongly hope that at the end of the day we won’t be presented with a draft resolution that is unacceptable to us,” Dan Gillerman underscored.

[Lerkfish]

41. as if there were any doubt.

there was nothing diplomatic that would stop this, just like our invasion of Iraq.
the offensive (what a good name) was irrevocably planned by Israel.

[daleo]

42. So much for the ceasefire talks, which seemed to be making progress

You had to figure this was coming.

[sabra]

44. there's still hope:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2451037&mesg_id=2451058

[uppityperson]

45. Reuters, "expand in case diplomacy fails"

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-08-11T174505Z_01_L07726695_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST.xml

World powers said on Friday a deal on a U.N. resolution to end Israel's war with Hizbollah guerrillas was in sight, but Israel ordered its month-old offensive to be expanded in case diplomacy fails.

Israeli tanks forces were preparing for orders to sweep into Lebanon after the wider offensive was approved, Israeli TV said.

"This decision does not exclude a diplomatic solution. On the contrary, Israel is following closely what is going on at the Security Council. But so far diplomacy has failed to produce concrete results," an Israeli foreign ministry spokesman said. Another foreign ministry official said the wider offensive would be called off is Israel was happy with a resolution.

Israel's view of progress with diplomacy was at odds with statements from other powers, including its ally Washington....(more)

[lovuian]

49. israel is getting ready to invade Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria

Syria Syria !!!

Bush named his axis of Evil because They truly want the big prize IRAN...

[Az_lefty]

52. yep, and ol' george is hanging out at the pig ranch...

:grr:

[calimary]

53. Sigh... well, that sure will win those hearts and minds.

What a mess.