'US, Israel planned ME war' (Seymour Hersh)

[allemand]

13/08/2006 11:06 - (SA)

New York - The US government was closely involved in the planning of Israel's military operations against Islamic militant group Hezbollah even before the July 12 kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers, The New Yorker magazine reported in its latest issue. ...

But Pulitzer Prize-winning US journalist Seymour Hersh writes that President George W Bush and vice president Dick Cheney were convinced that a successful Israeli bombing campaign against Hezbollah could ease Israel's security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential US pre-emptive attack to destroy Iran's nuclear installations.

Citing an unnamed Middle East expert with knowledge of the current thinking of the Israeli and US governments, Israel had devised a plan for attacking Hezbollah - and shared it with Bush administration officials - well before the July 12 kidnappings. ...

If there was to be a military option against Iran, it had to get rid of the weapons Hezbollah could use in a potential retaliation against Israel, Hersh writes.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Middle_East/0,,2-10-2075_1981865,00.html

[DoYouEverWonder]

1. Well that went about as well as

the War in Iraq.

I hope this experience has shown them that taking on Syria and Iran might not be such a good idea after all. But then again, chickenhawks love to stay the course no matter what.

[Roy]

28. Staying the course is not so bad

Staying the course in an elective un-winnable war is not so bad. Actually, it's fairly easy.
All you have to do is use someone elses kids and someone elses money.

Done deal.

[Ghost Dog]

2. cf.

WATCHING LEBANON
Washington’s interests in Israel’s war.
by SEYMOUR M. HERSH
Issue of 2006-08-21
Posted 2006-08-14
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060821fa_fact

[0007]

3. Brain Damage Ravages White House

Last week saw fresh evidence of irrationality from two of Dubya's closest advisers. First, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld appeared before the Senate Armed Service Committee. Despite all evidence to the contrary, Rumsfeld claimed that the U.S. is making progress in Iraq and denied that there is a civil war there. Newsweek editor Fareed Zakaria observed, " seems literally in a parallel universe and slightly deranged. If you listen to what he said last week about Iraq, he's living in a different world, not a different country."

Next, the perpetually perky Secretary of State Rice announced a ceasefire in Lebanon that wasn't actually a ceasefire. This followed on the heels of her announcement of a forty-eight-hour halt in bombing, where the Israeli's didn't stop their bombing. All the while, Rice greeted the press with a frozen smile and boasted of the excellent diplomatic progress she was making, even though she is now unwelcome in any Middle Eastern capital except Tel Aviv. Her boss, George W, was pleased with this phantom "progress," saw it as another sign that democracy will soon blossom throughout the Middle East.

Read More Here

[AntiFascist]

51. Hard at work creating their own realities in their own heads n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. Thanks for the link - note Cheney is still the real man in charge

Earlier this summer, before the Hezbollah kidnappings, the U.S. government consultant said, several Israeli officials visited Washington, separately, “to get a green light for the bombing operation and to find out how much the United States would bear.” The consultant added, “Israel began with Cheney. It wanted to be sure that it had his support and the support of his office and the Middle East desk of the National Security Council.” After that, “persuading Bush was never a problem, and Condi Rice was on board,” the consultant said.

[ktlyon]

15. That is another thing that needs to be brought home to the public.

Cheney is running our country. George is just a figure head. George goes some where almost every day and speaks his rhetoric. The Presidency is no longer the top of our leadership and this has diminished our country. This is not how it should go. Our country needs a strong, intelligent leader that is out front and on top of things, not a king taking a ceremonial bow. With Cheney operating in hiding and running the executive branch our country looks like kind of some underworld crime family operating in secrecy. Hope this never happens again. This embarrassing for the "leader of the free world".

[leesa]

21. It IS a crime family.

We don't need a strong President. We need functional Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches.

[ktlyon]

26. well maybe strong is the wrong word how about effective

or functional would be good
:)

[brer cat]

11. "The Israelis told us it would be a cheap war ...

...with many benefits,” a U.S. government consultant with close ties to Israel said. “Why oppose it? We’ll be able to hunt down and bomb missiles, tunnels, and bunkers from the air. It would be a demo for Iran.”

Above quote from your link, Ghost Dog.

Made my hair turn white!! Oh, when will they ever learn?

[bhikkhu]

66. I thought Iraq was a demo for Iran!

[Supersedeas]

13. Thanks for the link, Ghost

[Toucano]

48. Thank you for the link. n/t

[Peace Patriot]

4. Thank you, Seymour Hirsch! I've been saying this since it started.

This is Plan B of the Bushite/NeoCon "Project for a New American Century": get Israel to do it. And Israel's rightwing, militaristic leadership got sucked right in, and Israel's fearful, battle-fatigued population, hostage to war profiteers, fear-mongers and power-mongers, felt compelled to go along. But these treacherous Bushites are NOT friends of Israel--their real buds are the Saudi sultans and the bin Ladens. The American people despise them. They have looted and destroyed our country.

Israel, if you are listening, it's time to get out of the way of the falling Bush junta! A DRAMATIC change of course is desperately needed. Visionary. Creative. Generous. Bold. Based on "truth and reconciliation," the common good and self-determination of the REGION, and on the STRENGTHS of Israeli, Persian and Arabic cultures, not on their weaknesses!

Here's my dream: Israel and Iran, reconciled, and working cooperatively to evict the Bush Cartel from the Middle East.

John Lennon told us to "imagine." That's what I'm doing. Can you just imagine this? The world would weep for joy. Israel would gain billions of friends around the world in an instant.

[Nostradammit]

31. Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

A thousand times yes!

Why can't people see through the Bush cabal? It's plain as day that they are using Israel.

Is this their final solution?

[Paula Sims]

60. Because people don't WANT to

I work with someone that was stunned when I brought up questions about last Thursday's arrests. She was stunned to think any democratic leadership would do something so horrible, but at least she was open enough to listen to my questions and do some reading. It's expected when it comes from the "Commie Pinkos" but not from the good ole US of A!

As Randi Rhodes says, when you point your finger at someone, there are 3 pointing back at you. Guess we just got the middle finger pointed at us.

Paula

[Zhade]

32. Fear, it seems, often terrifies our better natures into hiding.

Powerful post, PP, as always. Very, very well-said. Wish I could nominate individual posts.

[katinmn]

5. Notice how the corp media and Repukes always refer to Iran

when discussing Isreal and Lebanon. Some Dems point at Iran as our boogeyman, too.

The U.S. will attack Iran. That has been the plan all along. There is no stopping them. This is what Israel's overwhelming attack on Lebanon is all about -- to draw Iran in.

[Marie26]

40. Probably

But it's starting to look like it didn't work, right? Bush was egging Israel on to attack Syria as well, to provoke a military response from Iran, but it didn't happen. Israel has signed a ceasefire & will end this in basic defeat. So, it seems like Plan A can't happen because US troops are stuck in the Iraq quagmire. And Plan B didn't work either, because Israel didn't start a region-wide war. So what's Plan C? Is there one?

[katinmn]

44. I think the worldwide reaction to the US/Israel aggression against

Lebanon further helped thwart their plans.

The US has lost clout, that's for sure. Still, these neocons are CRAZY and we can bet they are working behind the scenes to stir up further trouble.

[HuffleClaw]

6. “The big complaint now in the intelligence community...

...community is that all of the important stuff is being sent directly to the top—at the insistence of the White House—and not being analyzed at all, or scarcely,” he said. “It’s an awful policy and violates all of the N.S.A.’s strictures, and if you complain about it you’re out,” he said. “Cheney had a strong hand in this.”"


that sounds just about right. so, just as many have been saying, this whole mess was preplanned and part of a larger plan to go after iran. and they are gonna ignore some painful truths and do what they want. not a pretty picture.

[Cooley Hurd]

8. K&R: It explains Israel's overly-heavy-handed attacks...

...they wanted to goad Syria (and Iran) into a conflict without actually bombing Syria itself.

Instead, Israel's (and, by extension, the US's) actions did nothing more than to horrify the international community, set Middle East peace efforts back decades, and strengthened the hand of Hezbollah, Syria, Iran and al Qaeda.

Nice going, neocons...:grr:

[bhikkhu]

67. the failure to involve the lebanese military...

is to the credit of the lebanese government, or so I would hope history reads it - against war in principle.

[regnaD kciN]

9. I should have known...

This war was so FUBAR in every possible respect, the strategy couldn't have been developed in Tel Aviv. Something this screwed-up could only have come from Darth Cheney, Ronald Dumbsfeld and their PNAC pals -- the same folks who brought you the Iraqi "cakewalk."

:eyes:

[xchrom]

10. kick

[Dover]

12. Where have I heard this before......?

Ohhhhhhh yeah...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1820859

Actually, anyone who's been paying attention since the Bushco coup could have put this puzzle together, and many on DU have. Glad Seymour concurs.

[IntiRaymi]

24. Very nice analysis in that link, Dover...

The last sentence in the original post, though, ignores a basic fact of all these 'games' in the middle east:

"Seems to me we could have avoided all this by expanding into other energy sources and renewables, eh?"

The goal isn't to make our life easier, by separating us from the oil dependency weakness. If people are dependent on oil, then he who controls the oil will control the world. Therefore, the game is about control and dominance, to hell with sane economic policy.
The guys at the top are pretty selfish, you know?

[Strelnikov_]

42. Ka-Ching

Consider the initial stages of the 'Last Man Standing' resource war in the Middle East. A war being initiated by 'oil men', for a region containing most of the earths remaining petroleum and natural gas reserves, by men who know no other paradigm but petro-wealth and petro-power.


As our fifth strand, we have to wonder why the kings and nobles failed to recognize and solve these seemingly obvious problems undermining their society. Their attention was evidently focused on their short-term concerns of enriching themselves, waging wars, erecting monuments, competing with each other, and extracting enough food from the human peasants to support all those activities. Like most leaders throughout human history, the Maya kings and nobles did not heed long-term problems, insofar as they perceived them.

. . .

Like Easter Island chiefs erecting ever larger statues, eventually crowned by pukao, and like Anasazi elites treating themselves to necklaces of 2000 turquoise beads, Maya kings sought to outdo each other with more and more impressive temples, covered with thicker and thicker plaster, reminiscent in turn of the extravagant conspicuous consumption by modern American CEO's. The passivity of Easter chiefs and Maya kings in the face of the real big threats to their societies completes our list of disquieting parallels.

From Chapt. 5, 'The Maya Collapses', from 'Collapse: How Societies Choose To Fail Or Succeed’ by Jared Diamond


Not that a societal collapse caused by gross mismanagement and incompetence of the 'leaders' could ever happen again . . .

[kineneb]

61. J. Diamond is spot on in Collapse

Sy Hersch has reached the same conclusion as many of us. This whole mess is not just about oil, but control of oil and resources. And Diamond points out what happens to those who try to create their own realities vs. dealing with actual reality. Those are the civilizations that archaeologists get to study.

[AntiFascist]

52. After watching Syriana, there's one line that makes my blood boil....

"as long as cars don't run on water, and there is turmoil in the Middle East, then we <the oil industry> will do extremely well" or something to that effect.

[Dover]

64. I purposely understated the issue.......being facetious.

The message we need to send should be directed toward the Oil Companies.
We should be targeting the oil tycoons at their places of work and residence rather than the White House and government offices.
They need to be fully exposed in the light of day and know, without a doubt, that WE KNOW WHO IS BEHIND THIS TRAVESTY.

They have currently been shifting into water as their next vital resource monopoly, and own many of the patents to alternative energy technology.
They need to be stopped NOW!

[babylonsister]

14. So now our government is getting other governments to start wars.

That's their form of diplomacy, I guess.

[Sterling]

39. You think this is new?

We have been doing that since forever. I doubt we need to convince Israel to do this. That is pretty silly. I think if anything Bush just gave his support where as in the past the US would have discouraged something like this.

[Dover]

16. Clearing the path for US war on Iran

A DUer posted this in GD. Thought it should probably be here too.

Aug 10, 2006



Clearing the path for US war on Iran
By Gareth Porter

WASHINGTON - Israel has argued that the war against Hezbollah's rocket arsenal was a defensive response to the Shi'ite organization's threat to Israeli security, but the evidence points to a much more ambitious objective - the weakening of Iran's deterrent to an attack on its nuclear sites.

In planning for the destruction of most of Hezbollah's arsenal and prevention of any resupply from Iran, Israel appears to have hoped to eliminate a major reason the US administration had shelved the military option for dealing with Iran's nuclear program - the fear that Israel would suffer massive casualties from Hezbollah's rockets in retaliation for an attack on Iran's nuclear facilities.

One leading expert on Israeli national-defense policy issues believes the aim of the Israeli campaign against Hezbollah was to change the US administration's mind about attacking Iran. Edward


Luttwak, senior adviser to the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies, says administration officials have privately dismissed the option of air strikes against Iranian nuclear facilities in the past, citing estimates that a Hezbollah rocket attack in retaliation would kill thousands of people in northern Israel.

But Israeli officials saw a war in Lebanon to destroy Hezbollah's arsenal and prevent further resupply in the future as a way to eliminate that objection to the military option, says Luttwak...cont'd


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HH10Ak05.html

[Jacobin]

17. There's a big surprise

Not

[nashville_brook]

18. "a CHEAP WAR with many BENEFITS"

"Why oppose it? We'll be able to hunt down and bomb missiles, tunnels, and bunkers from the air. It would be a demo for Iran."

[gorbal]

19. I like how Seymour Hersh digs for the truth but...

I sometimes wonder how helpful the information he digs up will be in the overall scheme of things. I guess he is helping us in our political decision making process for the next election....but is he adding to the confirmation in many radical Islamists minds that we are a legitimate target? Will Iran step up and put all it's energy into doing what our government most fears?

I don't know, I guess it's hard to judge in situations like this. It is good to see the truth get out there.

[Drum]

20. K & R

:kick:

[mainer]

22. I hope Sy Hersh has his ducks lined up in a row on this story

because it's a blockbuster. It confirms that we very well may be going into Iran.

[NVMojo]

27. K&R!! I was wondering what Sy's next info-bomb would be!!!

[NoodleyAppendage]

23. Well...clearly Hersh is an anti-semite. How dare he question Israel!

I hope Hersh is prepare for the false accusations of being anti-semetic. It's only a matter to time before he's tarred and feathered for daring to question Israel's aggression.

J

[Fredda Weinberg]

29. Can't we do without flamebait? n/y

[Zhade]

46. You have to admit, that will be the false charge from some quarters.

Like those who defend Israel's actions in Lebanon, no matter how much white phosphorous or indiscriminate bombing Israel engages in.

[Fredda Weinberg]

49. No, I haven't seen that and don't know why it has to be

introduced. As for the phosphorus, I remember hearing that proof was coming - but never saw any. Nevertheless, you appear to have accepted it as established fact.

[Zhade]

54. I recall seeing evidence. I'd have to dig it up again.

If you haven't seen people being called "Israel-hater" or "anti-Semite" for criticizing Israel's disproportionate response against innocent Lebanese civilians, then you either have been away or the posts have been deleted.

It's happened to me, so I know it's happened.

[NoodleyAppendage]

55. So, tell me how do you feel about Israel starting this war to get at Iran?

Let's talk about Hersh's main point. Heretofore, the argument has been one of Israel having to defend itself and that this was all prompted by the kidnapping to two Israeli soldiers. Now, we understand that Israels incursion into Lebanon was only to create a buffer zone for an upcoming pre-emptive strike on Iran. If Hersh's story is true (which I don't doubt based upon his accuracy to date), then how can we even be certain that the "kidnapping" of the Israeli soldiers wasn't facilitated by US or Israeli hands?

J

[Zhade]

57. I wondered that myself yesterday.

NT!

[Fredda Weinberg]

58. I didn't hear what you "understand"

I heard that the US helped Israel planning and that our government is planning to take on Iran. Even Hersh didn't make the accusation that Israel's re-entry into Lebanon wasn't a reaction to the kidnapping.

[NoodleyAppendage]

59. So, it's all just a coincidence then...is it? Amazing odds.

Hezbollah's kidnapping activity was precipitated by Israel's bombing of the beach family in Gaza. Maybe they were looking to provoke a reaction??

J

[Fredda Weinberg]

69. Or Hezbollah acted to take pressure off Iran

Why would Lebanese militants put Lebanese civilans at risk to seek revenge for Palestinians? Your hypothesis makes no sense.

I can understand why Hezbollah would snatch IDF soliders to exchange for their own prisoners ... there's a history of that.

[NoodleyAppendage]

53. Exactly. It's only a matter of time before Hersh is trashed as a bigot.

As far as I'm concerned Hersh is batting 1000, while the MSM is .100.

J

[evox]

25. Hezbollah Knew that all along

July 26, 2006: Nasrallah says military offensive part of US-Israel plan for new Middle East

Hizbullah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah has said Israel's two-week-long military offensive against Lebanon was linked to a U.S.-Israeli plan for "a new Middle East."

He added that Israel was ready for the current attacks on Lebanon 10 months ago and was only waiting for a pretext.

(AP)

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3281435,00.html

[Zhade]

30. It really sucks being right. I wish I were wrong more often.

But I knew this had to be the case, and the pro-Israel magaphoners were dead wrong in their conclusions.

EDIT: given this, one has to wonder if the kidnapping situation was intentionally prompted, either by the IDF dipping into Lebanon and then back out or maybe even by firing across the border.

[Miss Chybil]

33. Madmen are driving the bus!

How do we get off? 29 months is too long to wait. We are doomed! Who will save us and the world? Where is Superman? Mighty Mouse? The Power Rangers? Somebody call Underdog! Jesus Christ, I have a bad feeling George and Dick can't stand the thought of having "the button" and not being able to push it. They are going to push it. God help us, all.

[Purveyor]

34. US helped plan offensive, says New Yorker magazine

THE US Government was closely involved in the planning of Israel's military operations against Islamic militant group Hezbollah even before the July 12 kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers, The New Yorker magazine reported in its latest issue.

The kidnapping triggered a month-long Israeli operation in southern Lebanon that is expected to come to an end today.

But Pulitzer Prize-winning US journalist Seymour Hersh writes that US President George W. Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney were convinced that a successful Israeli bombing campaign against Hezbollah could ease Israel's security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential US pre-emptive attack to destroy Iran's nuclear installations.

Citing an unnamed Middle East expert with knowledge of the thinking of the Israeli and US Governments, Israel had devised a plan for attacking Hezbollah - and shared it with Bush administration officials - well before the July 12 kidnappings.

---End of excerpt---

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20114121-2,00.html

[IntiRaymi]

35. The players are moving their pieces on the grand chess match.

Isn't it fascinating to see how the machinery operates?
Hezbollah's capture of 2 israeli soldiers was an audacious act. Audacity is rewarded in the battlefield.

[Kurovski]

36. K&R.

Hersh is one of our best reporters.

He'd still be a great one even if the majority of reporters in America were actually any good.

[Loge23]

37. No wonder it failed (eom)

[medeak]

38. recommended n/t

[NoodleyAppendage]

56. Was the Gaza Beach Bombing incident a provocation to start the plan?

I find it odd that the Israeli "accident" in Gaza that killed a family of beachgoers was so heavily televised and camera crews were on the scene very quickly. It's almost as if someone was tipped off that it was going to happen to maximize the outrage in the Arab community.

Hmmm...I wonder why Israel would want to provoke a response from the Palestinians or Hezbollah??

J

[Strelnikov_]

41. Like I Said Almost A Month Ago

The Current Hostilities Are The Opening Act In The Action Against Iran

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1689815#1690483

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1699240#1699455

IMHO.

Yes, Hezbollah attacked a patrol, killed some soldiers, fired some rockets. A significant response was called for.

That said, the scope of the current operation is baffling to me. Knocking out bridges, the major airport, extensive bombing of infrastructure. It is now apparent that the goal of this operation is to severely degrade or eliminate Hezbollah as a fighting force.

But why undertake an operation of this scope so suddenly? Would not a more limited response, followed by a demand that Hezbollah be disarmed, been a more politically expedient course prior to an operation of this scale?

Every report I have read regarding military action against Iran notes Hezbollah actions against Israel as one of the major retaliatory threats.

In my opinion, this operation has been planned for a while as a necessary precursor to an attack on Iran. The attack on the Israeli soldiers enraged Olmert and he simply moved up the schedule.

Consider the Reich propaganda outlets rapid rolling out of the 'WWIII' and 'Iran/Syria at fault' memes even before the smoke from the first rockets cleared.

Consider the Chimp administrations non-response to Israel severely damaging their big win from last year, the 'Cedar Revolution'.

[BenDavid]

43. Have any of you noticed

the long faces of bush, cheney, rice. You wonder why such the long face? Well, could be because Syria and Iran did not take the damn bait that bush threw out there...I am of the honest opinion that bush and his reprobates wanted so much to drop bombs on both Syria and Iran...But bush forgot one thing, the leaders of those two countries have I.Q's at least 10 points higher than bush.....

[KaptBunnyPants]

50. So that's what, 10?

nm

[Evergreen Emerald]

45. So the killing of innocent civilians was the US idea?

Lovely.

[Dover]

65. Yeah, same idea they used in Iraq, Vietnam, Panama......need I go on?n/t

[lutefisk]

68. Looks like they underestimated how many dead children...

...it would take to provoke a response from Iran or Syria. Or at least the response Cheney & Co. expected.

Junior and Rice are such bad liars that it was obvious they were up to something like this. What vile, vile people.

[NashVegas]

47. Must Be Driving BushCo Crazy That Iran Hasn't Jumped Into the Lebanon Fray

After almost four weeks.

[RedEarth]

62. K&R

[TexasLawyer]

63. Another brain-dead Pentagon theory:

"If there was to be a military option against Iran, it had to get rid of the weapons Hezbollah could use in a potential retaliation against Israel, Hersh writes."

Um-- could we get ALL the weapons scattered across the country, and get them for all time? Israel isn't going anywhere. And at this rate, there will be a US presence in Iraq and Afghanistan for the next 50 years or so. Might that not give our enemies time (and MOTIVATION) to re-arm? and then to USE their arms once regained?

And might that not energize other US and Israel opponents in the region, like all of western Pakistan, which is already a tinderbox.

[flamingyouth]

70. kick

[ShockediSay]

71. US 'knew of Israel bombing plan'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4792961.stm

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

and the deaths of how many innocent civilians?

and the destruction of one of the newest democracies in the ME?

and the death of how many children?

ABOMINATION

[mike_c]

72. sure makes that drivel about exporting democracy...

...sound pretty thin.

[C_U_L8R]

73. knew? they were OUR bombs !

Geez .. we were fedexing em over as fast as they could drop em

[stranger81]

74. Exactly. If I hear one more news report

talking about the "Russian" rockets being shot by Hizballah and the "Israeli" jets and helicopter gunships shooting in response, I'm going to hurl.

[ConcernedCanuk]

75. GEE!! - why does my Canuk brain just scream DOH!!!!!!!!!!

.
.
.

Just a wee bit from the posted article:

"Israel had devised a plan for attacking Hezbollah, and shared it with Bush administration officials, well before" 12 July, Seymour Hersh wrote.

/snip/

Israeli officials visited Washington to secure US support for its plans before Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers on 12 July, the ostensible cause of the Israeli bombardment of Lebanon.

"Israel began with Cheney. It wanted to be sure that it had his support and the support of ... the National Security Council," an unnamed US government consultant told Mr Hersh.

With Mr Cheney's backing secured, "persuading Bush was never a problem, and Condi Rice was on board," the source added.

/snip/

'nuff said . . .

[Theduckno2]

76. Would anyone here venture a guess to the likelihood that...

the U.S. shared satellite intelligence with the IDF?

I saw some of the first video on the BBC (PBS) that came out of southern Lebanon and what I saw was appalling.

[Marie26]

77. Knew? We helped organized it.

Which partially explains why it was such a disaster.

[Scurrilous]

78. Seymour Hersh on CNN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5eBrfrWoTk

[LynnTheDem]

79. Of course they planned it.

And they failed, creating as always a total disaster & making the situation very much worse for everyone...us included.

The war criminal rightwingnut governments in America & Israel are insane MFing lunatics that need to be locked up at the Hague and tried for their war crimes.

Then maybe the world could actually give peace and intelligence and bloody common sense a chance.