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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-17-06 03:24 PM
Original message
Troops express worries about Iraq
Edited on Thu Aug-17-06 03:25 PM by Barrett808
Troops express worries about Iraq
By PAULINE JELINEK, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - President Bush is not frustrated over the slow progress in Iraq, the White House insists. But a lot of other Americans are — apparently including U.S. troops.

The Pentagon's top general says troops suggested to him during a recent trip to Iraq that they are among those who are worried.

White House spokesman Tony Snow took pains to deny a report Wednesday that Bush had privately expressed frustration with the Iraqis for not appreciating American sacrifices made there and with the Iraqi people and their leaders for not supporting the U.S. mission.

"We don't expect ... an overnight success," Snow said when asked Bush's opinion on the government of Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.

...a third ended a question about continued U.S. troop deployments to Iraq by asking, "Is the war coming to an end?"

(more)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060817/ap_on_go_ot/frustrated_with_iraq

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-17-06 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. My heart goes out to the soldiers; no end in sight with a madman at
the helm.
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MGD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-17-06 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. The military overwhelmingly supported that madman in 2000 & 2004
I hope they're enjoying the world they helped create.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-17-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Please prove that, because I have yet to find statistics saying how
the military voted in 2004. The evidence seems to have been hidden.
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-17-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I understand troop support mirrored the national numbers
The may have favored him in 2000 by a bit, but I understand a significant shirt occurred by 2004. After 2004, Bush never had a mandate with the military. Point me to a link if you have information that contradicts my understanding.

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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-17-06 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. "Overwhelmingly"?
Got a link to that?
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-18-06 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. The military rustics who voted for the Chimp in FLA put him over the top
look at the 2000 absentee ballots people

I don't know about 2004 however.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-17-06 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. They should be worried about BUSH. HE sent them there.
Their fears should be aimed at Bush.
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Monkeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-17-06 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. Over on the Kos today Peter Laesch was posting from Iraq
First time in a week he could. Things are on the slide there in Bagdad
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Wwagsthedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-17-06 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. What are they worried about?
The mission has been accomplished! NOT:-( Of course, they're worried about being led by the Crawford village idiot and his incompetent cronies.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-18-06 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
10. 'They're not really trying to make political change....
Edited on Fri Aug-18-06 02:51 AM by radfringe
-- snip ---
"This whole 'blaming Iraqis' thing is a simple way of trying to weasel out ... to say, 'They're not really trying to make political change, so we should leave,'" said Davis, one of several outside experts invited to a Monday meeting of Bush's war cabinet.


a change in government does not immediately mean a change in a society. To build a true democracy requires cooperation among the people

the bushies/GOPers like to compare Iraq's democracy to our American revolution. They have often pointed out how long it took for our revolution and establishment of our government took. True it did take time, however our society/culture at that time had already developed some level of independence away from England

During our colonial times, we were seperated from England by distance. It often took several months for a communication to get to England and back again. This left the colonial governors on their own.

If threatened by an outside force or a natural disaster - the colonial governor could not pick up a phone or send an e-mail asking for help. We had to deal with the situation without governmental help.

The majority of "Americans" were born here, raised here and England was a distant land, Parliment was some vague body of legislators, and King George was an illustration in a newspaper. We had a few generations of people who never set foot in England, and their only connection to England was perhaps seeing a flag.

Iraq has had many generations living under a very controlling government, and they are accustomed to that cultural form where people are told what to do and what not to do. Independence and free thinking is not a part of their society.

Think of it as being institutionalized. The situation is the same, except on a cultural scale. When a person has been in a prison or otherwise confined for many years in a facility where their daily lives are controlled by someone else it is difficult for them to adjust to suddenly having to make decisions for themselves. To go from total control to independence overnight and succeed just doesn't happen. This is a reason for half-way houses, it gives some level of independent living while still providing controls.

In Iraq's situation - we've opened the doors to the insititution and told people "Hey, you're free, you're on your own." On a societal scale, Iraqi's aren't going to adjust overnight, nor in a few years - it's going to take 2-3 generations before they even get to the point of accepting the idea of a democracy. the bush-plan has no half-way houses.

Military control is not enough nor is it an appropriate mechanism for nurturing a democracy. By its nature a democracy is nurtured by the people and the people have to be taught how to take care of it. The bush-plan never made provisions to educate and teach the Iraqi's what it means to live in a democracy (and it still doesn't). The bushies/GOPers are depending on a military machine, they are using the stick instead of the carrot.

Bringing "freedom" to a people is not a timeline plan where "A" leads to "B". It's a multitude of levels which needs to happen simultaneously. It needs to happen on an environmental level (i.e. substantial reduction of violence), it needs to happen on an infra-structural level (hospitals, schools, utilities, etc), it needs to happen on an economic level (stores, factories, businesses) and it needs to happen on a societal level where people have confidence in their government and not see it as a just changing the name on a building.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-18-06 04:17 AM
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