Marine call-up greeted with anger, suspicion

[sabra]

http://www.wstm.com/Global/story.asp?S=5316208&nav=2aKD

Marine call-up greeted with anger, suspicion

COLUMBIA, Mo. No mother wants to see her son shipped off to a war zone. But Tracy Della Vecchia (VEK'-ee-uh) thinks after three voluntary tours in Iraq, her Marine son has done his part.

...

Della Vecchia says her son is stuck, with three years left on an eight-year military contract. She's also a bit suspicious -- wondering about the military's claims that it's meeting recruitment goals.

She's also concerned that maybe something's really brewing elsewhere in the world -- perhaps with North Korea. She says people "never know the whole story until it hits us front and center."

There's suspicion of another kind from the group Vote-Vets-dot-org, whose chairman calls this "the last thing that happens before the draft."

[Sadie5]

1. RW is just itching to start a draft

Look for talk of the draft to begin the day after the November elections.

[elehhhhna]

3. Look for the flag hitting the fan when they drop the "D" bomb.

[951-Riverside]

5. I think they should go for it :) n/t

[saigon68]

47. Another reason not to join "The Few, the proud, the exploited"

Enjoy the plane ride boys

The Halliburton stock holders thank you (not) Their kids will be going to drunken frat parties this fall.

LOL

[unschooler]

33. That reminds me: we need to renew our passports.

:think:

[jseankil]

10. If there was a draft I honestly don't think anyone would go

Can you imagine? Telling people to go to Iraq? People are too informed these days.

[Nikki Stone 1]

13. New book sells draft to middle and upper-middle classes, esp Dems

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060888598/sr=1-1/qid=1156351752/ref=sr_1_1/002-7352716-4312053?ie=UTF8&s=books

AWOL: The Unexcused Absence of America's Upper Classes from Military Service -- and How It Hurts Our Country (Hardcover)
by Kathy Roth-Douquet, Frank Schaeffer

In this impassioned, convincing manifesto, Schaffer (Keeping Faith) and Roth-Douquet, a former Clinton White House and Department of Defense staffer, call for class integration of the military. Their arguments are personal: Roth-Douquet is a military wife and Schaffer's son is a marine, and the authors fall within the demographic they critique. Alternately narrating, they relate their experiences with the military and detail the liabilities of the present all-volunteer "corporate" force: the hindered policy-making ability of a civilian leadership without significant ties to the military, the weakening of the armed forces themselves, and "the sense of lost community and the threat to democracy that results when a society accepts a situation that is inherently unfair." While Schaffer proposes a lottery draft and Roth-Douquet suggests the military "convince" people to sign up, they both call for all young people to submit to some form of national civilian service. Though the authors occasionally exaggerate ("we are fast approaching the day when no one in Congress and no president will have served or have any children serving"), they make a clarion call in the face of increasingly controversial foreign policy and a military stretched thin. (May 9)

Book is written by former Clinton staffer but recommended by John McCain on back book jacket. Clearly preparing the ground for a draft and for the drafting of the middle class as per the bills pending in Congress since 2003. (The "upper" classes of the title do not include the really upper classes--just the mid to upper middle.)


If there is a draft, Dems will be front and center as they were in authoring the 2003 legislation. The only way Congress can convince the working and middle classes to go to war is to have the party that is allegedly there to protect them sponsor a draft.

[hedgehog]

38. Why should service in the military be required?

Help me out, those who specialize in history; weren't the Army and Navy of the thirties made up of professional officers and a small group of single men who didn't always have the best reputations? Yet this nucleus was sufficient to allow us to ramp up quickly to fight the Second World War. Even at that, the first thing George MArshall did was retire a number of senior Army officers so he could move young guys like Eisenhower up in the ranks. Just why do we need an immense standing Army, Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force? If you give a kid a hammer, all the world becomes a nail. Maybe if our Defense Department wasn't so big, we might have better success using diplomacy.

[RamboLiberal]

42. I listened to the authors on local liberal talk radio and they

are not GOP flaks drumming up support for a draft for Bush. They are the spouse and parent of people in the military who are only making a valid point that many in the upper middle class and the rich are content to support war while making absolutely no sacrifice of their own. Just because McCain endorses it doesn't make someone automatically someone a Bushie.

They also point out that until the Vietnam draft and this all-volunteer military that our history was replete with many in these classes considering it almost mandatory to serve. Of course not all upper class and rich have done their part throughout history - witness that during Civil War that if you had the money you could buy your way out.

[Nikki Stone 1]

49. With all due respect, that is the image they want to project

And it supports my point that only Democrats can sell the draft to the American people. The Republicans are seens as wealthy elites or fundamentalist nutbags. The Democrats are seen as populists (which they aren't, but that is the image). Therefore, a populist party is the best for selling to the middle class the idea of becoming cannon fodder.

[RamboLiberal]

51. With all due respect - Bull

Bet you haven't even listened to the authors.

From Amazon.com

But Roth-Douquet and Schaeffer, who've written the book in alternating sections, unite to argue convincingly that there are at least three dangerous consequences of a civil-military divide. First, it hurts the nation's ability to make sound military choices. Uniformed service is not a prerequisite for individual expertise in the conduct of war. Abraham Lincoln -- arguably America's greatest wartime president -- never served in uniform (although he spent three months in an Illinois militia). In the aggregate, however, we benefit from having veterans in every corner of our decision-making apparatus: as presidential advisers, members of Congress and active citizens. Without them, our civilian leaders embody less and less of that visceral wisdom forged in harm's way, and the problem perpetuates itself: If young people don't serve today, then we won't have older veterans in leadership positions tomorrow.

Second, a schism between the military and the rest of us weakens the armed forces. Absent broad and deep ties throughout society, the military becomes "them" instead of "us." Roth-Douquet and Schaeffer fear that such a force "will be overused and underled and that support will run out fast for any project that becomes a political liability." Consider that Franklin Roosevelt and Winston Churchill, unlike most political leaders today, both had children in uniform in the Second World War. Whether such personal connections actually affect policy is almost impossible to say, but common sense supports the authors' assertion that "the grunt on the ground is best equipped, best trained, and best served when the opinion makers have a personal stake in his or her well-being."

The greatest problem with an isolated military, however, is even less tangible. "When those who benefit most from living in a country contribute the least to its defense and those who benefit least are asked to pay the ultimate price, something happens to the soul of that country," write the authors. That argument makes for the most powerful reading in the book: "We are shortchanging a generation of smart, motivated Americans who have been prejudiced against service by parents and teachers. Their parents may think they are protecting their children. Their teachers may think they are enlightening them. But perhaps what these young people are being protected from is maturity, selflessness, and the kind of ownership of their country that can give it a better future."

[Harry Monroe]

44. I've often thought that the quickest way to end the war..

...would be for the gov't to reinstitute the draft. Imagine the apathetic college campuses coming to life in protest. I live in a southern college town and am always amazed at the amount of conservatism at the university. I often see college age kids riding around in their vehicles with Bush/Cheney '04 or that stupid "W-The President" sticker on their bumpers. But not a single one of them who support this President and his war are in Iraq; they'll leave that to those who volunteered and will fight the war for them. I would bet that if a draft was reinstated, this attitude would change in a hurry and it would be the '60's all over again. It's one thing for them to be in favor of the war but quite another to support it by actually picking up a gun and fighting it. Alas, their cheap patriotism is quite hollow.

[Harry Monroe]

45. Like Lemmings over a cliff...

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

[elehhhhna]

2. The Horn of Africa. Afghanistan, Iraq, & the Horn.

That's where they're going.

[bluestateguy]

4. I'd like to know who these women and their sons voted for first

I need that information before deciding whether or not to have sympathy.

[brentspeak]

7. Give us a break

Who cares who they may or may not have voted for? The only relevant issue in this is that our nation's troops are being used and abused because of idiots at the top.

[Pacifist Patriot]

9. Irrelevant to me.

But keep in mind that one place (many counties in NJ) where the deployed military vote was tracked separately, the result was something like 72% in favor of Kerry. Military vote = Republican vote is a myth the Republicans would like to keep alive, I'm sure.

[coalition_unwilling]

19. Thank you for that. I can sympathise with them, even if they

did vote Repuke, but my sympathy will be tempered by a little bit of the ole "Instant Karma's going to get You".

[IronLionZion]

21. wow, how progressive of you

Lets use the litmus test for using social programs too. And when Dems start creating new jobs, we'll post signs saying "No Republicans need apply".

:eyes:

:sarcasm:

[cassiepriam]

25. It is karma time.

You know who they voted for.

[tanyev]

32. Who they voted for and if they would still vote the same way.

A lot of people do have regrets.

[SpiralHawk]

6. They should call up all the AWOL reprobates

like George AWOL Bush.

And also anyone who got Five Deferments, like Dick Cheney.

[reprobate]

14. PLEASE DON NOT LUMP ALL REPROBATES WITH BUSH!

Sorry for shouting, but some of us are just huggeybears.

[louis-t]

30. And you never started a war for profit either.

Like some people.

[rodeodance]

8. l feel bad for these families. They need to make lots of noise!

[stepnw1f]

11. Great issue for November!!!!!!!!

This is How the GOP Treats Our Soldiers!!!!!!

[uppityperson]

12. Military IS meeting recruitment goals. They reduced those goal #s.

And your chocolate ration has been increased again also.

Sort of like when a "new and improved" product sells for the same amount yet is less volume.

[Supersedeas]

16. PR stunt to reduce goals leads to call-up of forces RESERVED for defense

of our country

[Love Bug]

15. psst: mom, they're getting your son ready to go to Iran

[cassiepriam]

17. Fastest way to end war: Mandatory draft of ALL 18 yr olds.

Male and female. No exemptions.

[coalition_unwilling]

20. Could we please have an exemption for para- and quadraplegics?

[cassiepriam]

22. Nope sorry . Next phase: draft grandma and grandpa.

No exemptions.

[unschooler]

34. That would do it. Grandma and Grandpa vote.

[cassiepriam]

46. Maybe, at this point I have no idea what it will take to wake up America.

Sending seniors to Baghdad may or may not do it :(

[IronLionZion]

23. Hey, don't insult them,

They are handicapable, not handicapped. They work in offices all the time. The military has office jobs! No exceptions and no one can escape unless you can prove you are gay in front of the recruiters. :evilgrin:

[cassiepriam]

26. How you gonna prove that in front of the recruiters?

Interesting interviews.

But sorry, everyone goes. No exceptions.

[cassiepriam]

27. The next phase: All girl and boy scouts over age 16.

No exceptions. Going to Bagdad.

[dkofos]

18. I'm hoping that they just say no

TO THE ILLEGAL WAR IN IRAQ!!

[IChing]

24. The military based their recall of marines on" perpetual war"

Col. Guy Stratton, head of the Marine Corps' manpower mobilization plans, said :


there is no time limit on the Marine Corps' authority to involuntarily recall Marines for jobs in the "Global War on Terror" -- a war whose parameters remain largely undefined "The authority is until GWOT is over with," Stratton said. "Until we're told to do otherwise, we'll use it."


The father of fascism, Benito Mussolini, once said, "War is to man what maternity is to a woman. From a philosophical and doctrinal viewpoint, I do not believe in perpetual peace."

Orwell’s most famous book, 1984 is a warning about a futuristic totalitarian government that controls the public by spreading propaganda, monitoring citizens, changing language and rewriting history. In 1984 Oceania is in perpetual war. The enemy may regularly change but the state is always at war. And there seems to be no end.

[IndianaGreen]

28. I know for a fact that Vecchia is gay

and I will attest to that to the Marine Corps so that they don't recall him back to war.

I will attest to anyone's gayness to get them out of going to war.

[Anakin Skywalker]

31. How Generous of You

:)

[unschooler]

35. You know. I've been thinking my sons are probably gay.

Kind of unusual for all of the boys in one family to be gay, but given their librul upbringing, I guess we should have expected it.

:rofl:

[dflprincess]

40. Not only do I think all of my nephews are gay,

but I think it might be wise for my nieces to become lesbians. I don't think a draft will be limited to males this time.

My 16 year old nephew has already been approached by a Marine recruiter. He said he asked the recruiter what he thought of Bush and the war and Marine said he doesn't think, he just follows orders. I told the kid to ask that question again the next time they call and if he gets the same answer to tell the guy "That defense didn't work at Nuremburg - you'd better start thinking."

[TexasLawyer]

36. Gay Quakers

My children are going to suddenly become gay and/or Quaker.

[mainer]

29. as the mom of two anti-war sons, it's easy to feel disconnected

And I think that's true of a lot of Americans who have no kids in the fight. There are days when I think: -- and I know it's wrong -- "why the heck should I get upset?" My kids aren't in that fight, and they never will be. The war could go on for the next fifty years, and except for the ancillary effects (higher taxes, global unrest) I could go through life just minding my own business.

Until the the soldiers and their families get upset and DO SOMETHING, this war will just drag on and on. And they'll continue to die for it. But they're not rebelling. They're obediently boarding those military planes and doing what the neocons are ordering them to do. They're spilling blood and they're NOT PROTESTING!!! So yes, while we feel sorry for them, what are THEY doing to stop this bloodshed? Why aren't they turning on the neocons?

You know that old saying, God helps those who help themselves. We liberals want the war to end, and we've been trying. But when is the military going to join us and HELP THEMSELVES out of this mess?

[unschooler]

37. Good question.

But when is the military going to join us and HELP THEMSELVES out of this mess?

Seems the military is too divided to do anything effective. I guess it's up to individual families and soldiers.

[hedgehog]

39. They have to be careful

The families have to worry about affecting the career of the service member. The service member is under military discipline not to participate in politics.

[Fovea]

41. Here's the situation

as i see it, at least.

Iraq-- The civil war will leave the Sunni unable to return to dominance, but they will hold the triange. The Shia will hold the south and east. The big winners will be the Kurds, but that may increase tension with Turkey. The big prize will be control of as much of the oil infrastructure as possible, as well as transportation. We will have to safeguard core facilities for our client government. Our current strength is not adequate.

Afghanistan-- Karzai is in trouble, and we will be fighting the Taliban again. Will it suck up another 20K in troops? Maybe.

Iran -- If we don't have 250,000 fresh troops, we could never hope to hold Iran, never mind taking it.

Venezuela/Cuba -- securing our market, destroying hope in the latin American world. On the face of it, 85 thousand should do it, but how many fronts can we supply air support for? Remember, the navy and airforce run through oil at a pretty brisk pace. Also, if we did that, who is to say how much resistance we would get during the occupation.

Where do these boots on the ground come from? They get drafted. Where does the oil come from. In the neocon fantasy, we take it for their profit. In reality, it burns like Gulf War I, only far, far worse.

And oil hits $150/bbl in late 2007, the year of martial law.
We have only begun to lose this war. It gets worse from here. Bush even admits it, he will not redeploy from Iraq. We have reached the Nuremburg moment. After this, there is no hope that the Bush administration can escape international prosecution. GWB might well be the first president of the us unable to cross the border.

Remember also, that the pentagon predicts that the consequenses of global climate instability will be worse than 20th century conflicts.
The draft will come, and it will be large.

[Miss Chybil]

43. Try "something brewing in Iran," Ms. Della Vecchia. nt

[Phrogman]

48. Remember, if your government can force you or yours into military service

against your will, than you are not a free person, and you do NOT live in a free country.

You're just fodder on standby.

[BreweryYardRat]

50. I'm mildly bi. Lucky me.