(Veterans) Group: Bush can reinstate the draft, or lose the Iraq War

[Barrett808]

Group: Bush can reinstate the draft, or lose the Iraq War
Michael Roston

Fast on the heels of yesterday's Defense Department involuntary call up of Marine reserves, an Iraq veterans group tells RAW STORY that if a draft is not the next step, President Bush must choose to accept a loss in the war.

Reports yesterday indicated that 2,500 inactive reserve members of the Marines were called up for duty in Iraq. The Marines are members of the individual Ready Reserve and have already given four years of service, allowing them to return to civilian life. However, they are contractually obligated to return to service when needed.

But Jon Soltz, who heads up the group VoteVets.org, warned ABC News yesterday that the call up showed a lack of plans for victory in Iraq, and the problems faced by an overburdened American military. Soltz served as a captain in the Army in the Iraq war and is still a member of the reserves.

...

"The Pentagon has been saying it's meeting retention goals, but its actions speak louder than words," he explained of the stop loss and reserve call up actions that the Pentagon has taken.

For President Bush, Soltz explained, there is a simple choice: "They have to decide between drafting people and cutting and running because either way they have a big problem. 130,000 was never enough, but you cannot sustain force levels where they are. Those are their options."

(more)

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Group_Bush_can_reinstate_draft_or_0823.html

[Phredicles]

1. Reinstating the draft AND losing the war in Iraq

seems like a strong possibility, too. Having a draft certainly didn't keep freedom on the march in Vietnam.

[IndianaGreen]

4. Reinstating the draft may bring an end to American militarism

It is easy to be gung ho when it is not one's ass that is on the line. I want to see all of those college Republicans in uniform in Baghdad.

[saigon68]

8. Goody now we can march, trash stores and burn cars in the streets

Ah the GOOD OLD DAYS are about to return.

[951-Riverside]

11. I hope they return the draft

America needs a good kick in the pants for voting that idiot in the 2nd time.

[0007]

35. They're getting a damn good ass kicking.......

'Tis been said that "We deserve the type of government we have!

[Sin]

21. Screw the Cars.

I say we head for the Capitol buildings and the bastards that put us in this spot.

[BrotherBuzz]

23. With pitchforks and torches!

Or maybe tar and feathers. Let's go get them bastards! :thumbsup:

[saigon68]

32. I can't wait

[jwirr]

31. Do we get to smoke pot? I think I am a little old for that now but

I am with you on the rest of it.

[MikeyJones]

25. I agree

"It is easy to be gung ho when it is not one's ass that is on the line. I want to see all of those college Republicans in uniform in Baghdad."

Let's make sure they're the first ones on the battle front and make sure they don't get sweetheart deployments to Tokyo or Germany.

[badgervan]

27. Amen

...to that. Something tells me that more than a few Yellow Elephants will do a 180 with their rah-rah war crap when the draft is reinstated.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

13. All depends what we do with the troops once they're there

The Iraq debacle probably wouldn't have gone nearly as badly had we used our troops to build infrastructure and what-not rather than just sitting around Baghdad guarding the Ministry of Oil.

You can't win the hearts and minds unless you make folks' lives demonstrably better.

[Zhade]

33. Of course, the invasion would still have been illegal and unnecessary.

NT!

[TomInTib]

2. I wake up with this every morning

I have been out of service since 1972 but I am eligible for 6 more years.

Will they take the rest of us old SF guys before reinstating the draft?

That is why I would support a draft. Pure selfishness. I am too creaky to fight again.

[xchrom]

10. i support a draft as well.

i went through the looking glass on this one.

but i also think that there are loopholes that need to be closed -- and i think they need open areas for service like the peace corps.

my point is -- rich boys and girls need to do something as well.

no escape.

[IndianaGreen]

3. It's the entire and phony war on terror that is at stake

"What it really tells you is that the Bush administration is not dedicated to democratization, they will cut and run, because the political liabilities of having a state that is Iran's proxy aren't as bad as losing political power in the midterm election." He added, "Doing a draft would cause that."

We are on the verge of losing in Afghanistan, so cutting and running in Iraq will not end there.

I would like to know what literature is out there on the long term psychological effects to a military engaged in endless wars.

[sarge43]

5. For starters IndianaGreen, I'd recommend The Oxford Companion to

American Military History ed. John Whiteclay Chambers II. It contains several articles on combat trauma, battlefield aggression and violence, training and indoctrination, etc. Plus it cites many follow up sources.

And yes it is a phony war. Terror attacks are a crime, not a war. They should be countered with police, not soldiers.

[Zhade]

34. And until we illegally invaded, there were no terrorist attacks...

...from Iraq directed at us, so it's even more phony.

[sofa king]

6. I think the draft is still a long way off.

I think every serviceperson signs a contract that says somewhere "details of contract may change without notice."

There are several million trained veterans in this country who think that they are now ineligible or have completed their terms of service, but that ain't necessarily so. The ones already in there are going to be used up until they're dead, insane, or too shot up to move and when they start running out of those the regulations will magically change to encompass the ones who thought they got away safely. Women will be allowed to get closer and closer to the front. Joining the Coast Guard might be construed as permission to be transferred to the Army as a combat infantryman. And as other options are cut off for young people by our contracting economy, there will always be an influx of volunteers who can never leave once they're in.

And seriously, when has the law or moral imperative stopped these guys anyway? Why recreate the draft when they can create a covert draft that doesn't earn the name? That's way more in keeping with their style.

[Akoto]

7. I doubt that it'll happen, myself, except in extreme emergency.

The Republicans are in such a politically desperate situation that reinstituting the draft would destroy them. That's not in the cards when their numero-uno goal is to retain as much power as is possible.

They've gotten away with as much as they have because the population is kept ignorant. Our "journalists" focus on missing rich girls and show trials, rather than the real goings-on in the world. People would probably be a whole lot more vocal if our reporters actually did their jobs.

When current events start to effect the common man in a deeply personal way - like forcing their children to go to fight - then things change. You can't blind people to the truth when their kids are being sent to get shot at or to return mentally traumatized. Many people out there just plain aren't fit for military service. I know that I'm not, mentally or health-wise.

[Barrett808]

9. I place the blame more on editors and owners

In general, the reporters get the goods. They can't help it if their stories get spiked.

[Martin Eden]

14. Yep, a draft is political suicide.

And the Republicans know it. The only way we'll have a draft is if there is a high degree of public support for it. Heaven help us if that comes to pass, because some pretty awful shit would have to happen before that support was forthcoming.

Also, I dispute that there is a military solution to the mess that Bush has made of Iraq. Without a political solution that the Sunnis will accept, there will be no end to the violence. The whole premise of "winning" the war in Iraq is wrong to begin with. There will be no final "victory" of the sort that you can point to and say "we won."

[WhiteTara]

12. sounds like lose lose for the monkey n/t

[Az_lefty]

15. I want the draft reinstated...

putting these young punk-ass republicans on the line will get their attention. They can no longer just set back and watch shock and awe on the TV. In fact, if we're in this great War on Terrorism, why isn't there a draft?

[garywild]

17. They will run out of those soon

It is a draft by a different name or I guess yet another lie. Someone should give Canada a heads up on their border crossing profiles. look for americans with crew cuts.

[Doctor Venmkan]

29. Nooo! No locking down the Canadian border!

If the draft comes back, I'm gonna head north and see if Iverglas can rent me a room or something... :hide:

It could be "Odd Couple - The Next Generation!" :evilgrin:

[PsN2Wind]

18. Emailed McCain shortly after this fiasco began

Asked the Senator "Why if we were at war, as he and the pResident were claiming, there was no draft, no surtax to put the war on a pay-as-you-go basis and no anti-profiteering laws?", never received any reply.

[Megahurtz]

16. Fuck That!

NO DRAFT!:argh:

Any of us who have teenage kids will just say NO!

[MasonJar]

19. Bush is annihilating our military. He should re-instate the draft, if

he is too stupid to withdraw, but he won't. He's too stupid to do anything right ever.

[ConcernedCanuk]

20. Jebeesus! - THEY ALREADY LOST THE WAR! - sure, they are still there,

.
.
.

But who the heck are they fighting?

Saddam and his military are long gone

We are being side-tracked from the fact that the Military is successfully building over a dozen bases in Iraq ahead of schedule, while infrastructure remains damaged from the excessive bombings, hospitals and schools are not on schedule, and of course personal dwellings destroyed in raids and bombings remain just that - destroyed.

The PNACers are just setting up bases for a jump-start to dominate the Eastern Hemisphere - troops are just cannon fodder to distract attention from what the USA is REALLY doing in Iraq - making it a stronghold on the European continent

Hey

Didn't "America the Free" start out as people wanting to get OFF the European Continent?

Hmmmmmmm

[Anakin Skywalker]

22. A Draft? Hah!

Only if there's a way to guarantee that 50/50 across the economic spectrum. Keep in mind that back in the Vietnam era draft, rich, sheltered @$$holes like Shrub and Little Dick Cheney got away.

[MikeyJones]

24. Let him re-instate the draft and watch me, along with millions of......

others gladly burn our cards and walk into prison in proud defiance of this corporate war. Not to mention a draft is political suicide and massive recall elections will remove the Republicans from control of Congress and the presidency and give the Democrats solid control over both the House and Senate. Dubya and Cheney both will be impeached and tried and quite possibly imprisoned and it will be the death of the Republican party.

[Barrett808]

26. Welcome to DU, Mikey!

:hi:

[54anickel]

28. They could try an advertising blitz like the Aussies.

Advertising blitz to bolster armed forces recruitment
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200608/s1723614.htm

snip>

In order to attract the numbers, Defence Minister Brendan Nelson has pledged to increase advertising spending by 50 per cent.

A new campaign that will be rolled out before the end of the year.

"Advertising is in itself not the solution but it is a significant part of it," Dr Nelson said.

He says the Government is looking at ways to make people stay longer in the armed forces.

"The advertising I think needs to be focussed much more on the services," he said.

"People join the Army, the Air Force or the Navy, they don't join the ADF - and in addition to that much more of our advertising needs to be designed by young people for young people."

more...

[rocktivity]

30. JON STOLZ FOR PRESIDENT!!!

For President Bush, Soltz explained, there is a simple choice: "They have to decide between drafting people and cutting and running because either way they have a big problem. 130,000 was never enough, but you cannot sustain force levels where they are. Those are their options."

How wonderfully astute of Mr. Scholz to realize that President Mightymouse's real problem is that he did his cutting and running three years ago: he ignored explicit advice that he'd have to at least double his available troop strength if he wanted to liberate Iraq properly. Back then is when he should have instituted a draft. Political suicide? Certainly--but war is all about sacrifice, and if the commander-in-chief wasn't willing to gamble his future on such an obviously noble cause, who should be? :eyes:

Bush's other mistake has been in allowing anyone who disagrees with him on Iraq to be considered a "cut-and-runner." That limits his ability to get out of Iraq gracefully, the way Lyndon Baines Johnson was able to define the retreat from Viet Nam as "peace with honor." Bush is between a rock and hard place indeed, but only partly because a draft would be so unpopular. For Bush, a draft would also be tantamount to shouldering yet another of his miserable failures.


:headbang:
rocknation