(Max) Cleland Seeks Treatment For Depression

[sabra]

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9747929/detail.html

Cleland Seeks Treatment For Depression

WASHINGTON -- As head of the Veteran's Administration under President Jimmy Carter, Vietnam veteran Max Cleland was involved in setting up VA Vet centers to help soldiers returning from war get counseling and readjust to life back home.

Now Cleland has revealted that he's suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and getting help from those same counseling programs he helped create.

...

He said he feels depressed, has developed a sense of hyper-vigilance about his security and has difficulty sleeping.

He believes the Iraq war has, in part, triggered his condition.

"I realize my symptoms are avoidance, not wanting to connect with anything dealing with the (Iraq) war, tremendous sadness over the casualties that are taken, a real identification with that.....I've tried to disconnect and disassociate from the media. I don't watch it as much. I'm not engrossed in it like I was," he said.

[knowbody0]

1. Thankyou Max, for all that you do

[Dinger]

2. Oh, Can't We Do Something For Max?

We sent flowers to Helen. I wish I could think of something we could do for Max to show our appreciation for everything he has done.

[ClintonTyree]

7. I'm with you......

a TRUE American Hero needs our support. He's suffered in so many ways for his country. You can count me in on any donation, petition etc. in support of Max!

[Hav]

12. .

Flowers doesn't sound that bad, does it? Imagine receiving flowers from 50-100 people (people you probably don't even know but who are with you). Members of DU could easily achieve that.
Maybe also expressing support and appreciation would be nice.

[YankeyMCC]

17. I would donate to an effort to provide some gesture of support n/t

[Old and In the Way]

38. Great idea....a positive thing we can do to say thanks to real American

heroes like Max. I'm in....

[Greeby]

3. ......

:cry:

[Hav]

14. .

I think he will be quite fine soon. My uncle had depressions, too.
The most important step always seems to be that you recognize that you need help.

[MidwestTransplant]

4. Yes but Mann Culter (and RW morons) said he blew

himself up juggling grenades. Why PTSD from that?

Fools

[brentspeak]

21. Here's Coulter's shameless rant against Max Cleland:

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/coulter021204.asp

"Cleland lost three limbs in an accident during a routine noncombat mission where he was about to drink beer with friends. He saw a grenade on the ground and picked it up. He could have done that at Fort Dix. In fact, Cleland could have dropped a grenade on his foot as a National Guardsman...Luckily for Cleland's political career and current pomposity about Bush, he happened to do it while in Vietnam....But he didn't "give his limbs for his country," or leave them "on the battlefield." There was no bravery involved in dropping a grenade on himself with no enemy troops in sight."
..........................................................................................
What Coulter refuses to divulge here is that the accident didn't occur "during a routine noncombat mission"; it occured immediately after Cleland has just finished fighting an exhausting, two-day-long battle (for which he would be awarded the Silver Star). Straight from the battlefield, Cleland and his buddies were coptored out and dropped off to a safe point. After disembarking, Max noticed a grenade lying on the ground, which he assumed had fallen off his own armarment belt. He picked it up to replace on his belt. But it turned out to have been someone else's grenade, and was set for quick detonation upon being touched. And then...it happened. Are there live grenades haphazardly lying about on the grounds of Fort Dix or National Guard camps for unsuspecting recruits to pick up??? Would a rested, fresh soldier make a weary, stressed-out, micro-second mistake of picking up an unknown grenade?

In other words, what happened to Max Cleland is the kind of thing that could only have happened to an exhausted soldier situated in the middle of a war. Yes, Coulter, you shameless shrew, Max Cleland did give his limbs for his country.

[chat_noir]

45. Bob Dole's war record - which Coulter will never mention

Dole's first wound. It was in the first of these night patrols that Dole received the wound for which he was awarded his first Purple Heart. He ruefully confesses in his 1988 autobiography that his wound was self-inflicted: "As we approached the enemy, there was a brief exchange of gunfire. I took a grenade in hand, pulled the pin, and tossed it in the direction of the farmhouse. It wasn't a very good pitch (remember, I was used to catching passes, not throwing them). In the darkness, the grenade must have struck a tree and bounced off. It exploded nearby, sending a sliver of metal into my leg -- the sort of injury the Army patched up with Mercurochrome and a Purple Heart." The wound was so minor that he led another patrol two nights later. He does not mention that others were also injured by his misguided throw -- which Woodruff's account attributes to an enemy machine gun.

http://www.tedellis.net/dole-article.htm

[LTR]

47. Straight from the horse's mouth

bitch.

[Darth_Kitten]

51. That's very sad......

What does it take for a soldier to lose before some stupid, right wing bonehead in America gives them ANY credit?

I hope Mr. Cleland gets the right help for his depression. It's a disease like any other. :(

Here's to wishing him the best. :)

[HarveyBrooks]

88. What does it take...

for a soldier to lose before some stupid, right wing bonehead in America gives them ANY credit?

Their membership in the Democratic party.

[krispos42]

58. Wikipedia needs updating then. Do you have confirmation?

According to Wikipedia:

Cleland served in the United States Army during the Vietnam War, attaining the rank of Captain. He was awarded the Silver Star and the Bronze Star for valorous action in combat, including during the battle of Khe Sanh. On April 8, 1968, during a routine training exercise, Cleland was severely wounded when he attempted to pick up a grenade he thought had been dropped by another soldier seconds earlier. He lost both legs and part of one arm when the grenade exploded.

Now, if you look up the Battle of Khe Sanh on Wikipedia you notice that the battle ended on April 8th, 1968. This corrosponds with Cleland being part of a troop rotation after the 3½-month battle. In fact, it might well be that Cleland fell victim to a booby trap set by the NVA or VC. Which makes it, in my mind at least, a combat injury in a combat zone.

Brentspeak, if you have solid info on Cleland's injury, you should edit the Wikipedia article so it is more accurate. I can do it if you want, but I need a reliable source.

If it was not a training exercise, the Coultergeist should be forced to eat all of the offending pages out of all of her books printed.

[brentspeak]

67. Krispos...

If you can modify the Wikipedia article, that would be great. Here's a link to a statement Cleland's former CO made following Coulter's column. I've read other articles which expanded on the account that I link to here, but this statement at the very least contradicts Coulter's smear:

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/02/con04074.html

The 2nd of the 12th Cavalry was engaged in a combat operation at the time of this incident. Max Cleland was with the Battalion Forward Command Post in heavy combat involving the attack of the 1st Cavalry Division up the valley to relieve the Marines who were besieged and surrounded at the Khe Shan Firebase. The whole surrounding area was an active combat zone (some might call the entire country of Vietnam a combat zone). (Is Iraq a combat zone?) Max, the Battalion Signal Officer, was engaged in a combat mission I personally ordered to increase the effectiveness of communications between the battalion combat forward and rear support elements: e.g. Erect a radio relay antenna on a mountain top. By the way, at one point the battalion rear elements came under enemy artillery fire so everyone was in harms way.

As they were getting off the helicopter, Max saw the grenade on the ground and he instinctively went for it. Soldiers in combat don't leave grenades lying around on the ground. Later, in the hospital, he said he thought it was his own but I doubt the concept of "ownership" went through his mind in the split seconds involved in reaching for the grenade. Nearly two decades later another soldier came forward and admitted it was actually his grenade. Does ownership of the grenade really matter? It does not.

Maury Cralle'
Battalion Executive Officer
2d/12th Cavalry Battalion
1st Air Cavalry Division
During the assault on Khe Shan

[krispos42]

82. Fixed it! Check it out here!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Cleland

[brentspeak]

92. Although, you should point out that Max picked up the grenade

thinking it was his own grenade, not someone else's.

[krispos42]

95. Gotcha. Fixed that, as well as some grammer. n/t

[brentspeak]

69. Here's another source

Not the one I originally had read, but includes some more info:

http://www.bluebus.org/archives/20040221_ann_coulter_get.php

[Skittles]

85. that sick bitch

yeah, I said it

[bluedog]

5. now theres a compassionate human being

the Iraq war has triggered memories of the hells he and other vets suffered in wars........and he sees this Iraq war for what it is,,,,,

Soldiers dying because of lies told by the bush administration

[Nickster]

6. Such a wonderful man. I feel so terrible for him. n/t

[The Wizard]

54. I had the privilege

of meeting Max last year. I told him if he ever wanted someone to beat the shit out of Ku Klux Karl Rove to let me know. Max told me to get in line.
Anyway, being the beneficiary of the Vet Center, I will always be grateful for how it helped me readjust from the Vietnam experience, which was the worst year of my life. The Iraq invasion and occupation has awoken those inner demons from 39 years ago, and I continue getting help for PTSD as it never goes away.
Several years ago we had a President from Texas who took office under unusual circumstances. He then started a war predicated on lies. Over 58,000 were killed for no good reason, and a countless number carry mental and physical scars for life. Max is a true hero, and someone who should be revered.
And the dirty fucking c_nt Ann Coulter better hope she never crosses this veteran's path.
Sorry for the vulgar outburst. Some cretins just make me revert back to the primative instincts honed in battle.

[The Wizard]

56. So I'm reading these posts and

thought it might be a good idea to visit your nearest Veterans Hospital and go to Volunteer Services and offer to lend a hand, and tell them Max Cleland sent you. I'm at the VA Medical Center every week, and if I ever see a vet in a wheel chair I always offer a push. That's the least I can do since I can still walk. Maybe we can get t-shirts or buttons that say Max Cleland sent me.
You can never go wrong doing right by a disabled veteran.

[calimary]

8. He is a dear, sweet man who gave almost all - 3 out of 4 limbs -

to his country's war efforts. I wonder if he got sufficient help and counseling when he got home from Vietnam. I hope he did. This just made me wonder, if some of that isn't backed up inside him somewhere, lying silently waiting to be unleashed by a future trauma.

DAMN! I hope he gets the help he needs. It's the very least he deserves after his kind of sacrifice. How dare ANYONE EVER impugn his patriotism!?!?!??! I curse that miserable, worthless wretch saxby "CHICKENHAWK" chambliss every day.

[stepnw1f]

9. We Should Send Him Letters and Flowers

He will need all the support he can get. I know... I've been battling depression for several years.

[Benhurst]

10. Best wishes for a swift recovery for a very good and brave man. NT

[longship]

11. A very personal matter

I understand that Cleland is reporting this himself, but I would pray that the Repukes don't use it against him. However, he seems to be using this as a good framing against the Iraq war. That's good.

Best wishes to you, Max. I have little doubt that you will conquer this.

[karynnj]

23. I think he is speaking of it to help those experiencing the same

thing who are either ashamed of it or not aware of the symptoms. Max Cleland spoke about PTSD very movingly when he introduced an NECN documentary on it at the Kennedy Center earlier this year. Del Sandusky (sp-?) one of Kerry's swiftboat crew spoke of it as well. (His life was very nearly destroyed by it.) This is a fantastic video.

http://ksgaccman.harvard.edu/iop/events_forum_video.asp?ID=2973

[Iris]

68. Yes. And what more can the Repukes do to him now?

They destroyed his career. I doubt he's planning to run for any sort of office again. They basically spit all over him in much the same way the accuse "Hippies" and "Liberals" of spitting on Vietnam veterans.

[karynnj]

76. I thought that Kerry would likely have given him

some position had he won. He is a brilliant, impressive inspiring man.

[Iris]

86. I agree. And the loss of the use of his talent is further proof of how

the Republicans have destroyed this country.

[lpbk2713]

13. Understandable if so.

Everything he worked for on the vets behalf AWOL Smirky has turned to shit.

[Mabus]

15. I'm sure Hitchens' outbursts on Maher's show didn't help

Both Cleland and Hitchens were on Maher's show Friday night. Both Hitchens and Maher cut Cleland off several times. Maher cut Max off when he was trying to defend Murtha. Max was trying to let people know when the rally for Murtha was and that he was going to be there to defend Murtha. Maher seemed more interested in letting Hitchens talk.

In the meantime, Hitchens just kept cutting everyone off and proceeded to flip the audience off twice as he defended Bush's Iraq War.

Poor Max, after what he has gone through the last thing he needed was Maher letting Hitches walk all over everyone.

[BeyondGeography]

20. Max spent most of that show laughing his head off

at Maher's jokes. Looked like he was having fun to me.

Hitchens is a noncombatant pipsqueak compared with Max; I doubt he landed any real blows as far as Max was concerned. The reality of the war, on the other hand, must make him feel the world has gone backwards in spite of his best efforts and many others like him. On top of the 2002 electoral loss, it's no wonder he's down.

[Mabus]

22. The camera was on Hitchens and Maher during most of the show

Because it turned into the Bill and his drunk guest show. They showed Max laughing during the "New Rules" segment but for the most part both Max and the Vali Nasr(the other guest) had very little screen time.

[BeyondGeography]

29. Max got the giggles during the banned airline products skit as well

"Pray and Wash," "Martyr Sauce," "Jihad, Your Hair Smells Terrific," the guy had a good time. He wasn't wounded by the drunk.

[Mabus]

32. It's comforting to know you could tell what Max was thinking

I was going by what I saw. Max didn't have much screen time and so it is hard for me to know what his reactions were during much of the show. What I do know is that he was cut off when he tried to talk. Furthermore, I was just going by my experiences with those who suffer from depression. For example, my old roommate would often laugh at stuff in public to try to cover how he was feeling. Once he got home he would collapse in crying jags feeling like no one liked him or what he had to say wasn't important. He would feel small and insignificant. I spent close to ten years helping him deal with his depression. Also, my step-daughter is bipolar and her depression can be triggered by seemingly unrelated comments. She can be giggling her head off one minute and be a totally different person the next.

I am not a mental health expert. Perhaps you are. I just base my opinion on my personal experiences dealing with people who suffer from depression and I don't think Maher's letting Hitchens go on and on in his most recent drunken tirade helped Max a lot. It is apparent you disagree and so we have a difference of opinion.

[BeyondGeography]

35. Your original post depicted Max as helpless and demoralized at this show

that's where we disagree.

[Mabus]

40. Let's look at a clip and put it together with what Max said

http://www.floppingaces.net/2006/08/26/hitchens-flips-the-lefties-the-bird/

The body language of both Nasr and Cleland show them leaning back and not engaged as Maher and Hitchens talk (and Hitchens flips off the audience). Maher ignored both Nasr and Cleland and let Hitchens rant on through most of the show. Who wouldn't feel like a third wheel on that panel? I guess you could characterize it as Max feeling helpless or demoralized but quite frankly I'm not in a position, nor do I have the expertise, to determine Max's mental state as you did. Rather than looking at one specific instance of Max laughing at Maher's jokes, I look at the whole show and Max's participation in it. Maher had three guest panelist yet he let Hitchens control and dominate the show.

When Max tried to talk about Murtha and the upcoming rally and his continued support for him Maher cut him off. Talking and exposing the truth about the RW's swiftboating of Democratic candidates is an important issue and, considering the nearness of the rally date, I would assume that one of the reasons that Max went on the show was to talk about that.

Finally, what the referenced article says is:

He believes the Iraq war has, in part, triggered his condition.

"I realize my symptoms are avoidance, not wanting to connect with anything dealing with the war, tremendous sadness over the casualties that are taken, a real identification with that.....I've tried to disconnect and disassociate from the media. I don't watch it as much. I'm not engrossed in it like I was," he said.

See, I read the OP. I see that Max cites and I see his disengagement during Maher's show, the majority of which was Hitchen's going on and on about support for Bush and the war. From there I formed an opinion that being exposed to Hitchens' probably wasn't what Max needed. I dunno, from what Max himself says, I personally don't think sitting next to Hitchens was a good thing for him mentally.

[BeyondGeography]

64. Hitchens is tough on all thinking persons

I'm sure that little incident wasn't easy for Max (who was separated from Hitchens by a third guest; at least he wasn't right next to the beast). I also think he was comforted by the support that Maher showed him for most of the show and by much of what was said. Plus he had some genuine laughs.

We both love Max and wish him well. That's what matters.

[Mabus]

66. What support did Maher show Max during "most of the show"?

Maher spent most of his time with the panel either letting Hitchens rant or talking to him. One of the few times that Maher addressed Max directly he ended up cutting Max off and actually spoke over Max to address Hitchens. Maher lost control of his show and/or ceded it to Hitchens who wasn't interested in talking to anyone as much as he was interested in hearing himself speak.

I praise Max for all the work he has done. I go back to the sentiments I expressed in my original post in this thread and will restate that I'm sure Hitchens' outbursts on Maher's show didn't help Max while he is trying to cope with his PTSD/depression brought on my the Iraq war. Especially because Hitchens defends Bush and continues to support the killing in Iraq. Additionally, I think it was in poor taste for Maher to let Hitchens run the show and didn't give Max enough time to get out the information that Max wanted to get out concerning the current swiftboating of John Murtha.

[BeyondGeography]

71. Maher's position on the war is identical to Max's

and they agreed with each other consistently on the show. What's more, Maher clashed repeatedly with Hitchens on the show, one time dismissing his attempt to smear MoveOn.org and "the Democrats" by implying that they think Bush was behind 9/11 ("Thank you for serving that red herring.")

When the show was over, Max high-fived Maher; his affection for the man is clear. I think you're being overly grim here, Mabus. Good night now.

[Mabus]

75. Maher has flipped and flopped on the war

And yes, Maher clashed repeated with Hitchens on the show but let Hitchens run it. Maher and Hitchens spent more time talking to each other than Maher spent talking to either Nasr or Cleland. BTW, Hitchens did get by with smearing MoveOn and even challenged Max over it. He singled Max out and wanted to know if Max was willing to support a group that compared Bush to Hitler the way MoveOn did. And he didn't just ask Max about it, he seemed to challenge Max over it. Max seemed a little taken aback but agreed that he couldn't support a group that compared Bush to Hitler. Maher didn't intervene, he let Hitchens badger Max. It was after this episode, that Maher let happen, that he said the red herring remark.

I'm not being overly grim. I watched the show and gave my opinion of how it went down. I also provided a video link to demonstrate my point and a quote from Max from the article referenced above to explain why I said what I did. I also mentioned that I know people who have suffered from depression and, just because they laugh once in a while, doesn't mean that they aren't depressed. I stick by my original contention that Hitchens' raving didn't do Max a lot of good. Moreover, it may have helped trigger his depression to the point that he made the announcement he was seeking treatment for it because he was having trouble dealing with the Iraq War and the deaths - the very topic that Hitchens continually talked about on the show and defended, just two days prior to Max's announcement.

[SoFlaJet]

50. I kept waiting

for someone in the audience to yell out "FUCK YOU HITCHENS"-if I was there I would have

[Mabus]

90. Someone yelled something back at Hitchens

I didn't catch it and haven't had time to re-watch it. But I agree with you. Why Maher let him challenge the audience like that and get away with it was just plain rude.

[reichstag911]

16. I'd be depressed, too,...

...if I'd had to sit within a few feet of that besotted, delusional warmonger Chris Hitchens, and been prevented from kicking his pompous ass (on Bill Maher Friday). Best wishes to Max!

[librechik]

19. well said--god bless Max Cleland! n/t

[mopinko]

18. what would any vet need in the va?

yo du veterans. there must be something that everybody in a va hospital needs. batteries, razors, candy bars? i bet max would like to make sure a big pile of stuff like that got distributed around.

[Recursion]

28. Don't know if razors are a good gift for someone with PTSD

when I was in everybody wanted porn. Maybe also not such a good gift. Flowers and cards always made people's day, though.

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. Where can he go to get restitution for that last election they stole?

[toopers]

34. Unfortunately, it wasn't stolen.

EOM

[The Backlash Cometh]

36. Of course not. They just swiftboated him, belittling his service to this

country as if Democrats are second-rate military men.

My mistake.

[Doremus]

73. I seem to recall reading that was the first Georgia Diebold election, no?

I also seem to recall that there were large, unexplained differences between pre-election polls and final results.

Am I imagining things again? ;)

[femrap]

79. You're not imagining a thing....

2002 in GA was the beginning. Everyone was in shock.....we had no idea it was the 'machines.' Did we? We were so naive then.....well, not anymore!

BTW, hitchens sucks....in fact, he can remove some ribs and suck his own for all I care....

[saigon68]

25. K & R

[Exultant Democracy]

26. The man is a hero and a role model

I hope that the boys an girls comming home today from the war will be more willing to seek help when needed because of his example.

[Exultant Democracy]

27. dupe...

[Hardrada]

30. I would like to help if I could.

I worked against the VN War but was on good terms with those who had served since what we had in common was an understanding of the nature of that conflict.

[Gregorian]

31. Max, everyone who's paying attention is depressed.

I'm sorry. Don't let them get you down.

Is there no way to get more of us together? Look at Max, and people like Vonnegut. Or my 83 year old father. They're totally depressed, having seen the country in much better times.

It's hard to keep going under this kind of bullshit. For those who have the physical trait that leads to depression, this maladministration and their little evil friends is very hard to sustain.

[philly_bob]

48. Ditto. Hang in there Max.

And Gregorian, that's a well-phrased message.

[rosesaylavee]

33. Let's send flowers.

Who has time to organize it?

[Dinger]

46. I Don't Have The Know-How, Or Skills, But Where Can I Write Him Or

send something?

[rosesaylavee]

59. I don't know either but

I do think there are some on this board that may know how to connect with him or know someone who knows. Just a cursory search on the internet doesn't turn up a public address in Georgia for him.

He may not want to be found too...not being a public figure any more, he may not feel he needs to have his address available publically.

[Stinky The Clown]

37. Godspeed, Max

I love you, man.

[CoffeeCat]

39. I understand "triggers."

I have PTSD from childhood stuff, and I understand exactly what he's talking about.

The Iraq-war vets sparked his memories and opened up old wounds. He's immersed in his own pain, as he listens to them tell their stories and watches them suffer.

Triggers are incredibly painful. They emotionally catapult you back into the trauma. It's like falling into a dark hole. You feel the exact emotions that you did when you were experiencing the trauma and you feel consumed by those feelings.

You know what I think is amazing? Max Cleland obviously has scars from the war. He harbors a great deal of pain that he has not yet processed. However, he has ALWAYS handled himself with the utmost dignity, courage and grace. He was "swiftboated" and his military service was sliced to bits by the Republicans. Yet, he pressed forward and remained above board. Even after losing an election, he still fought and didn't give up.

I'm totally in awe. Here's a man who served his country, still suffers for it--and manages to make the world a better place by helping returning soldiers--even though he understood that it would be painful and difficult.

Absolutely amazing.

[OKthatsIT]

41. depression really sux.

It comes hard...you risk your life for the Constitution and what did it get? Where are the war protestors now? Who is going to save those kids in Iraq? The truth that most any war we've ever fought has its own question of integrity...was it all a lie?

If there's anything we as Americans are absolutely responsible for..it's our kids. The Elite don't think like us. (They hardly spend the time of day with their kids...citizens of the world, indeed.)

Max Cleland is suffering from a certain 'rawness', right now. I hope pharma never takes that rawness away. It's the raw truth. It's raw feeling, without the usual rationalizations most folk who havent been traumatized never suffer...BUT, those who have not suffered it have live the 'comfortable lie'.

The comfortable lies Americans live.

Max...be safe and well. Do whatever it takes. We need you. We'll fight the good fight for ya while you're recovering. We must do our own part.

[roguevalley]

42. God bless you, sweet man. I got to meet him here in Alaska and

he's a really fine man.

[saltpoint]

43. Max, you hang in there. You've got a lot of fans these days.

And you've earned every one of them.

Smooth passage to the next level.

[lithiumbomb]

44. only politician I've ever seen in Atlanta in public

I've seen him a few times over the years, just out and about as a private citizen. Once at a hobby show I think, and two other times just having lunch at common-people (where I eat) cafeterias. Having dinner at Picadilly Cafeteria gets him some kudos!

[Pacifist Patriot]

49. He came to my Marietta high school in the 80s.

I can't even remember why he met with a small group of us in the school's library, but I clearly remember the visit. I think he's why I majored in poli sci.

[Lisa]

52. I wonder how many more veterans are feeling this?

Seeing Iraq footage on the news ... or driving past a household in mourning for a lost soldier ... or just walking downtown and encountering a young war amputee in a wheelchair.

It would not surprise me if people who fought in WWII, Korea, Vietnam ... or Beirut, Desert Storm, or UN peacekeeping missions ... are re-experiencing horrors they thought they'd left behind.

I bet that Max Cleland is bravely coming forward -- even though he knows there will be all kinds of nasty, hurtful things said by Coulter and Co. -- to draw more attention to this issue, and encourage more people to seek treatment.

[yellerpup]

53. It's not phantom pain

when you shake and hurt everywhere. Max should know how much he means to so many of us who consider him a great American hero. This needless war threatens to make everyone's head explode. Let peace and healing permeate Max Cleland with fresh strength and hope.

[Dudley_DUright]

55. Max is on the board of trustees at the university where I teach,

and I can confidently say that he has the respect and admiration of the whole of our community. He is a true american hero, and I truly wish he could be back in the senate where he belongs (instead of Saxby Shameless).

[bling bling]

57. Reading that made me feel sad.

Sad because I've been through depression and I know how debilitating it is, how lifeless you feel.

Sad because I know how much it directly affects the people you love and who love you.

Sad because he's one of the good guys, and he's been treated so awful by the Republicans, after all he's given to this country.

Sad because he's suffering because he cares about his country, and hates to see what's happening to it....and the bully Republicans will probably just make fun of him.

:cry:

[Darth_Kitten]

70. With all the people who suffer from depression.........

the bully Republicans shouldn't mock him. If anything depression is anger turned inwards. People who suffer from this disease actually actually have the capacity to BOTH think and feel, quite deeply.

To put it bluntly, stupid people who don't care about anybody but themselves and don't have an original thought in their heads rarely if ever feel a need to become depressed. Take that bullies.

Yes, depression has it's physical component, of course......

[midnight]

60. Good for you Mr. Cleland.

I hope his privacy is respected and his sessions are not being tapped.

[onehandle]

61. Fuck the chickenhawk Republican party!

Nothing to do with this particular story. That's just what comes to mind whenever I hear my Senator's name.

Fuck them!

[David Zephyr]

62. I love this man. Here's wishing Max the very best.

He's a hero in my eyes. A real hero.

[senseandsensibility]

63. You are doing the right thing to seek help, Max.

Best Wishes, and thank you for all you've done for our country. I respect you bery much.:loveya: We're all pulling for you at DU!

[aaronbees]

65. He's a great man and

a soldier for truth. It's good he's confronting this and, though it must not be comfortable to address it publicly, it could really be a positive thing to shed light on this problem and show others that depression and PTSD can be confronted.

Best wishes to ya, Mr. Cleland. :patriot:

[go west young man]

72. I've had the honor of waiting on Senator Cleland down at

The Cloister Resort on Sea Island, Georgia. He's a truly inspiring individual. Super friendly and has a great vibe about him. I've waited on a lot of people in office but none have made me more proud than Max Cleland.

[wicket]

74. God bless him

May he get all the help he needs :patriot:

[wellst0nev0ter]

77. What Must Really Eat Him Up Is The Fact He Voted For The "Authorization"

yes, he was facing a tough campaign from a brazen chickenhawk who aired ads morphing his face with Saddam and Bin Laden, so in a political sense he didn't really have a choice. But in the book "Fiasco" he knew he made the wrong choice when he voted "yes" on the Iraq war authorization and he turned to Senator Robert Byrd who gave him a disgusted look and just walked away.

Chalk up another reason why I hope there is a special place in hell for Republican fascists :grr:

[BenDavid]

78. If anyone has not seen last Fridays

Bill Mahr show on HBO be sure to check your listings and see if you can watch it at some point this week. Max was on this program and he looked good and told stories and as only Max can do, get pissed". There were times though he would laugh a good belly laugh at some of the things Bill would say, but at times you could sense from the expression on Max's face that he was troubled about something.
I saw a report on one of the major news programs that said the post tramatic stress these soldiers are expericing after their return from Iraq is much worse then those with this disorder returning from Nam...
Yes, we need to make sure that Max receives help and I am quite sure he will, but there are so many young and old coming back from Iraq that needs the help now. Not later NOW!

[vickitulsa]

91. You're right about the returning Iraq vets due to experience PTSD.

I have long been a staunch supporter and friend to a great many Vietnam vets, identifying with them in part due to my own PTSD from childhood experiences and from the loss of my only child during the Vietnam War (not in combat, a different thing but caused by the war all the same).

I have actively worked to support these vets, good people, men and women both (can you imagine the sort of PTSD the nurses have had to deal with?). I've done what I could to help any of them who were having trouble fighting the VA system for many reasons but most often to obtain PTSD qualification -- service related -- and get treatment when they seek it.

Then sadly when the Iraq invasion began on the heels of the Afghanistan action, I predicted we would be seeing a great many vets returning with whopping cases of PTSD. The public's early support for these military actions (wars) meant that there would likely be a delay, I felt, in these vets' confronting the deepest horrors of PTSD, but it would hit them just the same, eventually. Then when we began to hear about I.E.D.'s, I knew it was going to be VERY bad indeed for those guys and gals.

I can think of almost nothing as destructive to the psyche as the constant, endless anxiety that must be produced when "normal" watchfulness and alert habits were not enough to protect a soldier from sudden deadly attacks from roadside bombs and other I.E.D.'s.

Now that public sentiment about the Iraq occupation has become so negative, and rightfully so, I expect the vets who return will find it ever more difficult to deal with their memories of their experiences in the military. Americans have tried very hard after the shameful way they treated Nam vets for two or three decades to display a different, supportive attitude toward them AND the more recent veterans, yes. But with the popularity of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan continuing to sink farther as time goes by, many people have begun to resent at least the general idea that so many young people would keep obeying orders deploying them repeatedly to countries where most Americans don't want them to be. It is both for our sake as well as theirs that people feel this way, of course. But I wonder how this shift in public attitude is going to affect those who serve?

I worry that the more we disapprove of and protest the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan (I wish people wouldn't forget the latter), the harder it's going to be on the veterans who have served there and continue to be required to redeploy there....

Any way we size it up, I fear for the emotional wellbeing of the latest crop of veterans this country's "leaders" are creating. Already the VA, under the direction of this administration, has been cutting VA services and making it harder for vets to qualify for certification of need and therefore for proper treatment. Even the older vets are finding it harder to keep qualifications they have had for a long time!

What an unbelievable, despicably sorry way to treat Americans who have sacrificed so much for the country they love and its citizens! I truly loathe Bu$h and his entire administration and hope they all get what they deserve one day, one day soon....

As for Max, I have to believe he knows that every step he takes publicly as a veteran deserving of respect and certainly of good treatment for service-related problems will be helping a lot of other vets besides himself. I adore the man and believe everything he does helps others. The difference between Max and the chickenhawks who criticize, accuse and condemn him is clear to anyone with half a brain or half a heart.

[eleny]

80. A real person with real feelings

Not like the sociopaths who work in the People's House these days.

I wish MC the very best in his treatment.

[Terre]

81. I'm confused

He believes the Iraq war has, in part, triggered his condition.

"I realize my symptoms are avoidance, not wanting to connect with anything dealing with the (Iraq) war, tremendous sadness over the casualties that are taken, a real identification with that.....I've tried to disconnect and disassociate from the media. I don't watch it as much. I'm not engrossed in it like I was," he said.

Would anyone happen to know why he campaigned with Lieberman then? I don't get it.

I've always admired him and I'm sorry he's going through this, but his actions don't jive with the statements.

What the heck am I missing?

[flaminbats]

83. two legs and an arm?

nothing personal, but people don't truly understand depression until they are forced to depend on others to keep going. I know exactly what Cleland is going through! We all get angry at those we love, but what happens when the people we become angry at are the same people we cannot survive without?

Max Cleland is going through a tough time, but my opinion of him has not changed. Despite some of his votes that I disagreed with and his support for Lieberman, Max Cleland is probably the bravest and most honest individuals I have voted for. He has given everyone with a disability a reason to keep trying and has shown all who might give up what patriotism is really all about.

[Terre]

89. I still don't understand

why he would support a candidate that is clearly in favor of Bush's way to run this "occupation", especially when he is feeling so against it.

BTW, I don't disagree with what you've said, but I don't see how it answers my question. OR maybe I need more coffee?

[judaspriestess]

84. Maher introduced Max Cleland as the returning champ

and that is exactly what he is, a champion. Bless him and hope for a quick recovery. A friend of mine suffers from PTSD from the Vietnam war. He has trouble sleeping quite a bit.

[Unbowed]

87. This man is a true American hero and a huge inspiration.

I wish there was something we could do to let him know how much we care. Does anyone know where we can send cards to Max Cleland?

[CBHagman]

93. I don't know if he still teaches at American U.

I found online information on Max Cleland which indicated both his faculty position at American University and his position at the Ex-Im Bank. But as of 2006, I'm not sure where he has an office or which city he lives in (or whether he maintains different homes).

I'll have to search a bit more online to find something. The Wikipedia site has a link to American U. but I haven't checked yet to see if it has been recently updated.

On edit: Oops. :blush: Wikipedia indicates that the Ex-Im Bank is a current position. Perhaps we could arrange a donation to a veterans' hospital in his honor.

[samsingh]

94. i really hope Max gets better.