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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 08:10 PM
Original message
The final place of refuge for Christians in the Middle East is under threa
Mods: I am winging it on the theory this is "news", move if you must.

Wander through the streets of Damascus this week, and you will see signs everywhere of the conflict in Lebanon. The bearded, black-turbaned Hassan Nasrallah stares out from every shop window, even in the Christian quarter. Here electric-blue neon crosses wink from the domes of the churches, and processions of crucifix-carrying boy scouts squeeze past gaggles of Christian girls heading out on the town, all low-cut jeans and tight-fitting T-shirts. The video shops are full of DVDs showing "highlights" from the war - exploding Israeli tanks and jubilant Hizbullah fighters - which sell even better than the ubiquitous pirated versions of the latest Hollywood releases, The Devil Wears Prada and The Da Vinci Code: evidence that in the contemporary Middle East you don't have to hate western culture, or even be a Muslim, to relish the bloody nose given to ill-judged Israeli and American attempts at imposing their hegemony in the region by force of invasion and cluster bombs.

Evidence of the conflict in Iraq, Syria's neighbour to the north-east, is at first harder to spot than the ubiquitous images from Lebanon, but on closer examination it is no less pervasive. Lounging in every park and teahouse are unshaven, tired-looking Iraqi refugees, driven from their homes by sectarian mayhem. This summer, as Baghdad spiralled out of control, with more violent deaths in one fortnight than in Israel and Lebanon together in nearly a month of warfare, Syria responded by providing asylum (though not work permits) to all Iraqis who were forced to flee, as well as free education for their children.

Talk to the refugees in Damascus, however, and you soon find that one group predominates: the Iraqi Christians. Although they made up only about 3% of the population of prewar Iraq - 700,000 people - under Saddam they were a prosperous minority, symbolised by the high profile of Tariq Aziz, Saddam's Christian foreign minister. Highly educated and overwhelmingly middle class, the Christians were heavily concentrated in Mosul, Basra and especially Baghdad, which before the war had the largest Christian population of any Middle Eastern town or city.

Now at least half of these Christians - around 350,000 people - have fled Bush's new Iraq and its violence, mass abductions and economic meltdown. Wherever I went in Syria I kept running into them - bank managers and engineers, pharmacists and scientists, garage owners and businessmen - all living with their extended families in one-room flats on what remained of their savings, and assisted by the charity of the different churches.

Guardian

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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. That's another fine mess you've gotten me into, Ollie!
Oopsie! Looks like Dimson has triumphed yet again!

Chaos follows everywhere he misleads.
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nealmhughes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. I had read that the RC Bishop of Baghdad last week said over half of
Edited on Fri Sep-01-06 08:30 PM by nealmhughes
his diocese were "missing," either begging for entry visas to the US, France, Australia, NZ, Germany, in short, anywhere ... or else waiting on the checks from their families to arrive in Damascus. We need to all recall that Baghdad was a Christian country 600 years before it was a Muslim one and the Babylon was one of the Patriarchies.

Thank God that the Syrians are not militantly anti-Christian or Druse or Bahai -- where would they go? Noone is even sure about the status of the church in Iran or the Bahais there.

I am a Christian but I don't care who those people are, they can worship Satan for all I care; they are Iraqis, actually they are mostly "Chaldeans" and "Assyrians" and do not conside themselves especially "Arab," even though it is the language of everyday commerce and education, Aramaic is preserved as the language of relgion.

These are the people who have survived for nearly 1500 years as a minority and prospered in peace with their neighbors -- now where do they go?

Any answers Mr. Bush, Blair or Chirac?
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Palladin Donating Member (174 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. No answer from a moral vacuum.........
We in the Western Christian Church will take care of them. All of them. We will see the day when they are returned to their historic places everywhere - including Palestine, especially Jerusalem, the holy city of Our Lord Jesus Christ, sacred to all three Abrahamic religions. In his quieter way BXVI will be as forthcoming on this as JPII would.

How many divisions has the Pope? More than you can possibly imagine....
--Palladin
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cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. you have got to be kidding...
Edited on Sat Sep-02-06 05:16 AM by cap
what "Western Church" are you talking about??? Certainly not the Roman Catholics.... We bugged out of Katrina. As soon as that storm hit, we told the US govt not to count on us to pick up on all the relief work that needs to be done. Catholic Charities told the government in no uncertain terms that it would be overwelmed to try and pick this up. And that is only one city...

No. The Catholic Church is not going to be able to assist these people in any way proportionate to what needs to be done; and Catholic Charities is the largest religious relief agency.

As for returning to Palestine... what are you talking about? Israel proper or the Palestinian Authority. I just cant imagine Israel absorbing these people. Jerusalem??? I just dont think so. The Palestinian Authority??? Even though there are lots of Palestinian Christians, I cant imagine Iraqi Christians wanting to live in poverty stricken Palestine.

The Pope advocating on their behalf? It's a mighty thin hope. Most of these people arent Roman Catholic. Only a relatively small proportion are even in affiliate churches to Roman Catholicism (I forget the exact religious term for it).

They will want to go to Europe or the US or a relatively tolerant Arab country nearby like Syria. Even if they did want to go Israel or Palestine, I cant see backing them. I am just not up for fighting the Crusades again. We've been there; done that.


No one is going to try and put these folks in Palestine or Israel and they dont want to go there at all.

Also, Palladin.. Interesting choice of handle...are you Palladin or Paladin? Palladin is an antibody. Paladin is a christian knight.
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Palladin Donating Member (174 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. The"Kingdom of Heaven"
is within you. It's bound to involve a transformation of the Church from the gutless wonder you're talking about.

I am just not up for fighting the Crusades again. We've been there; done that.

Nope. This is our Crusade, of our Church, of the Church Militant, of the Church regenerate, on this sorry earth. It is upon us. Very few Catholics will understand this; they'll focus on the word "crusade" and what they have been indoctrinated and propagandized that this word means, instead of praying and looking for guidance and appealing to the saints and angels on the imminent mission, which will be felt in the heart, not understood in the brain. This crusade will encompass much more than a slice of historical territory, and will involve the regeneration of whole pagan and infidel nations, states, and societies who are Christian in name only, by now. We shall not allow the neocons, and christian Zionists like Falwell, Robertson, and Hagee, and cowardly phony flatulent "knights" like our so-called President, Vice-President, and Secretary of Defense, to subvert the symbols and power of this quest, with their infidelity, heresy, and mortal sin. It ain't gonna be pretty. St. Ignatius Loyola had it right when he formed his order of Jesuits from the knights of the Reformation and Renaissance and they became the "Soldiers of Christ". They did not fight with arms from then on, but with the Gospel and their hearts and minds. We too can expect persecution on all sides, because this is a war of ideas, and manifestation of the supernatural war of principalities of traditional Church teaching. Am I crazy enough to believe all this? You bet.

Paladin - indeed a knight of medieval times, a romantic knight of the court of Charlemagne, personified in El Cid

Palladin - "a knight without armor in a savage land" - the Shakespeare-quotin' moral gunslinger, the man in black, played by
Richard Boone in the late fifties TV Western Have Gun Will Travel....I mighta got the spelling wrong...for 46 years....

Something to live up to, I'm not by any means there yet, not even close....
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cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. baloney...
no one except yourself will go for such foolishness...most certainly not the Jesuits.

Nobody wants a global fight of one religion against the other...

Are you related to patrick317?
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. To quote my Gram: Jesus, Mary & Joseph
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. ...and the donkey they rode in on!
(as my Gram used to add)
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eccles12 Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. Would someone please tell Pat and Jerry where the real persecution
of Christians is taking place and why.
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. they don't care...
they pick and choose the news and message they deliver.

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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. they aren't the right kind of christian.
these christians might as well be martians practising some martian religion as far as pat and jerry are concerned.

pat and jerry would hate their kind of christianity.

pat and jerry think these christians are getting what they deserve.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yup, no money for Pat and Jerry in these guys pockets, either. nt
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. ain't that the truth. n/t
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
11. k & r
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