Friendly (U.S.) fire that killed Canadian was 'freak accident,' major says

[Newsjock]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/09/04/afghanfriendly.html

CBC News

Two U.S. aircraft mistakenly fired on a Canadian platoon taking part in NATO's massive anti-Taliban operation in southern Afghanistan on Monday, killing one soldier and injuring dozens of others.

The incident occurred at about 5:30 a.m. local time when two U.S. A-10 Thunderbolts, operating under NATO command, responded to a call for support from soldiers trying to take a Taliban stronghold west of Kandahar along the Arghandab River.

... The Americans were taking part in Operation Medusa, a NATO air and land offensive aimed at purging militants from one of their strongholds, in the Panjwaii area west of the city of Kandahar.

... However, the friendly-fire case that created the greatest controversy and outrage in Canada came in 2002, when a U.S. fighter jet mistakenly dropped a bomb on Canadian forces as they conducted a training exercise.

[MADem]

1. AGAIN? WTF...why do we keep killing CANADIANS???

This is horrible. Bill Clinton's professional military has been overtaken by a bunch of clueless buffoons who shoot our allies.

[hack89]

11. You are kidding, right?

I was a member of Bill Clinton's professional military and we had more than our fair share of fuck ups - remember Somalia? The cruise missile strike against the Sudanese aspirin factory?

Friendly fire incidents have been a part of war since time immemorial - things are actually better now that technology like the Blue Force Tracker are in use:

http://www.gdc4s.com/content/detail.cfm?item=35fd8857-c9fe-4036-8739-15f2f8ebd0f6

[MADem]

16. I remember Somalia, and if you think back, you'd remember how

long Bill had been in the job before that fuckup got cast in stone with no exit strategy (despite a CJCS who just LOVED things like overwhelming force and exit strategies).

And you would also remember who STARTED that quagmire. Hint--he's a dunce's daddy.

Operation RESTORE HOPE started in DEC 92. The first of way too many KIAs happened in early January, while Monkeydaddy was still PREZ.

OPERATIONS CONDOR RACHET and NUTCRACKER were initiated on the BUSH watch. Bush dumped thirty - forty thousand troops into that country before Clinton was ever installed as president.

But hey, easier to blame it all on draft dodgin' Bill.

I am always stunned when I see people continuing to spread that GOP lie that the fault is all Clinton's, while the GOP had already laid out the ground rules, locked him in, egged him on, played up his shortcomings in the military realm, and at the same time they snickered and prayed for failure. A few dead Marines were JUST the thing to make their disgusting case. The GOP celebrated those deaths.

I can't believe you've forgotten these important points.

And really, if you are going to be totally forthcoming about Somalia, you'd also remember which CJCS, when specifically and directly ASKED by his President, his Commander in Chief, flat out REFUSED to stay on to provide advice and manage that situation, which had already been stoked, greased and laid out.

Clinton could have ORDERED him to stay, but he was too classy to do that. Who wants a hostile Chairman?

The "Black Hawk Down" incident happened on 3 October 93. Colin Powell retired on 30 Sep that same year. He was off the hook by SEVENTY TWO HOURS.

Even the UN eventually said 'fuck it' and bailed out.

So ... whatever.

Having said that, I acknowledge that the targeting of both the aspirin factory and the Chinese Embassy were examples of shit going HORRIBLY wrong. But seeing the bullshit and shenanigans that have happened in this present administration, it wouldn't suprise me if old CIA Poppy (a former Special Envoy who Liked to Be Called Ambassador To China when we DID NOT HAVE an ambassador to China) left a few shitbirds behind to pee in the punch in those areas of responsibility.

It would not surprise me at all.

And again, we've HIT the CANADIANS once already. And KILLED some.

There ARE methodologies to prevent this shit.

Why haven't we gotten it right ... YET????

[hack89]

19. My point is the military under Bush is just as professional

as under Clinton - things are not worse.

It was Clinton's military that took down Afghanistan and Iraq - I have never subscribed to the notion that he ruined the military. But I also reject the notion that Bush has ruin the military - I think he has made abysmal choices on how to use them but their response to his tasking has been a professional as ever. Also don't forget that todays generals and admirals came up the ranks in the Clinton military.

There are fewer friendly fire incidents now then ever in history - however as long as you have young men and women under great stress making snap decisions there will always be mistakes. It is the nature of mankind and the nature of war.

[leesa]

20. Nobody took down Afghanistan and Iraq, quite obviously.

[MADem]

24. But that point is FLAGRANTLY not true--the military is WORSE

They are accepting more 'moral waiver' cases (people with criminal records).

They are looking the other way and accepting GANG members.

They are accepting more non-high school graduates.

They are accepting more CAT IV recruits (you've got to score in the CELLAR of the ASVAB to be a CAT IV).

They are even lightening up on pre-existing MEDICAL conditions that were nonwaiverable in the past. Childhood asthma? Used to be a nonstarter. An ADD diagnosis? They'll TAKE YOU now.

Look, I know a bit about this--this is NOT Clinton's military. At ALL. It's the bloody bottom of the barrel. That clawing sound you hear is the desperate scraping of it by the GOP fatcats.

Far be it from me to make an assertion without backup:

http://www.chicagosuntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-waiver19.html

...the percentage of recruits entering the Army with waivers for misdemeanors and medical problems has more than doubled since 2001, according to records provided by the Army under a Freedom of Information Act request....recruiters are seeking more waivers and allowing more applicants with gang tattoos because they are under the gun to keep enlistment up.

Waivers for misdemeanors steadily doubled from about 3 percent of the total number of recruits in 2001 to about 6 percent in 2005, the records show.

Over the same period, waivers for disqualifying medical problems rose from about 4 percent to nearly 7 percent of the total number of recruits.


http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/02/02/waivers/index_np.html (free reg req)

Out of jail, into the Army
Facing an enlistment crisis, the Army is granting "waivers" to an increasingly high percentage of recruits with criminal records -- and trying to hide it.

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1115623.php

Army recruiters now have a wider pool to find future soldiers in. The Army is reaching out to a slice of America’s youth long ineligible to serve: non-high school graduates who don’t have a General Equivalency Diploma

...The program allows recruiters to enlist a high school dropout, according to S. Douglas Smith, a spokesman for the U.S. Army Recruiting Command. But the enlistee must have the GED before shipping off to basic training. The Army will pay for individuals to attend a course to prepare for the GED test and will cover the cost of taking the GED exam.

Before attending the GED course on the Army’s tab, the person must enlist into the Army’s delayed entry program, Smith said....

http://staging.armytimes.com/story.php?f=0-ARMYPAPER-1874550.php

...Cat IV recruits — or those with test scores between the 10th and 30th percentiles — had been capped at 2 percent of enlistees since the 1980s. But that cap was lifted in fiscal 2005, and 4 percent of total recruits were Cat IV. In 2004, it was was 0.6 percent.




Read what recruiters think about these changes: http://recruiterconfession.blogspot.com/2005/07/lowered-standards.html

[w4rma]

28. Bull. Bush has fired all of our best generals because they weren't dumb

enough to believe this Iraq BS. One of the first things a Democratic President should do is to start retiring the upper Brass in the military to make room for non-partisan generals.

Explain to me how a military can be "just as professional" with it's best leaders forced into retirement for political reasons.

[MADem]

37. Thank you for pointing that out. The three and four star lists are

PERSONALLY vetted by the Monkey. All of the Clintonistas never made it past two star.

[Turley]

21. Ridiculous

You don't have the slightest clue who put in the call for close air support, whether there was a forward observer involved, whether coordinates or targetting information was given, whether other Nato procedures were followed correctly by those on the ground and in the air. You may want to wait until actual information is available before you go doling out the blame.

[MADem]

25. Nonsense right back at you.

It's called ATTENTION TO DETAIL. Once burned, twice shy.

You weren't there either. For all any of us know, it just as easily could have been inattention that caused the incident.

I'm no longer assuming the best case scenario, given the precipitous reduction in quality of accessions since Bush took office. They've been talking about sensor tagging for three goddamn years already, but we continue to 'make friends and influence people' by killing our allies.

http://www.embedded.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=18900473

[Turley]

35. You're right. I wasn't there

But I'm not the one jumping to conclusions.

[MADem]

36. Well, all I did was ask the question

WHY do we keep killing Canadians?

You're the one who's leaping to conclusions.

[Posteritatis]

33. This feels different from Schmidt's fuckup

(Disclaimer: Canadian, relatively local to several of the guys Schmidt bombed earlier in the war, though I didn't actually know any of 'em.)

That one there kinda dripped of glory-hound flyboy wanting to blow shit up and going out of his way to find an excuse. Hell, the guy disobeyed orders not to fire.

This one here, at least from what I can see, is close close-air support during relatively close-quarters fighting. When you're cruising sixteen thousand feet up and being directed by AWACS birds, you've got fewer excuses for hitting the wrong target than you do while you're hugging the ground at 400 miles per hour.

Does that excuse, or condone or otherwise minimalize the significance of this one? Absolutely not - but I'm more willing to accept the idea that the A-10 pilot "just" made an actual, genuine mistake than I was for Schmidt's attack, which seemed almost premeditated. That said, I rather eagerly await the results of any investigations that are going to happen in this - and no matter what, a mea culpa from the pilot would probably be welcomed by anyone.

[Spazito]

38. Friendly fire lessons not learned, says U.S. pilot

OTTAWA - As investigators probe the friendly fire incident in Afghanistan that this week killed a Canadian soldier, a former fighter pilot involved in a similar tragedy in 2002 says he fears that the U.S. air force may have never properly addressed the communication problems that surfaced in his case.

William Umbach, a retired major, was one of two Illinois Air National Guard F16 pilots who faced criminal charges after they mistook a Canadian training exercise near Kandahar for enemy fire and dropped a laser-guided bomb, killing four soldiers and injuring eight.

snip

Umbach said the report from an inquiry into his April 2002 incident failed to address the key problem that he said is common to almost all such friendly fire cases: the breakdown in communications between air and ground forces.

snip

"I would like to think they made steps in other areas, but certainly nothing in the report would have encouraged them to, other than the people who were at one end or the other of the misinformation, shrugging their shoulders."

more

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=07a5bbcc-76f4-49f1-8c48-9ea0747ecf5e&k=35434

[LynnTheDem]

2. "mistakenly dropped a bomb" my ass.

Canada needs to get out of Afghanistan; this ain't peacekeeping, it's a bloody war of aggression that we will never win.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ConcernedCanuk]

6. "Canada needs to get out of Afghanistan" - I agree wholeheartedly

.
.
.

If the US was is indeed under "attack" from someone, I am sure that we would come to your aid if need be.

But the fact is - the "attack" came 5 years ago - and the "superpower" hasn't caught and punished the perpetrators yet.

And the "superpower" decided to flex it's muscle to invade Iraq as well while it was over there.

We should have NOTHING do with this pre-emptive shit.

It's like going and shooting your neighbour because you THINK he might shoot you

then ya find out he doesn't even own a gun . . . .

but he's already dead , oh well

That's just collateral damage

and the fact you killed his daughter and wife in the raid

oh well again , , ,

one sick friggen WarMachine ya got there,

and now we got dragged into it

Shame on us

Chretien woulda never let it happen

Martin initiated it, and Harper extended it

I hope my fellow Canuks will not let us continue down this path -

"USA-lite", is not what I want Canada to be

And I certainly don't want my country to be involved in the massacre of civilians(which the US Military so eloquently describes as "Collateral Damage")

And

I don't want my fellow countrymen to be dying for Bush's crusade.

[LynnTheDem]

7. Canadians are waking up to the Afghanistan bullshit (never having fallen

for the Iraq bullshit, thankfully). Canadians are still too informed to follow bushica over the cliff. Here's hoping they remain so.

[applegrove]

10. I'm beginning to feel that we should not be there if the USA isn't even

there.. or if they cannot be bothered to use sattelites to guide their targets in Afghanistan.

If all the sattelites are being taken up by Iraq... well...why should we be there when the USA is making only a half-assed effort?

[breakaleg]

12. I agree that "preemptive shit" is bogus. We need to re-evaluate the

definition of "self defense" once and for all.

[Spazito]

23. It seems the majority of Canadians agree with you and not with

harper:

OTTAWA — A fascinating national opinion survey suggests that Stephen Harper and his Conservative government would do well to heed an old political saw about Canada-U.S. relations: Canadians like to see their prime ministers in the White House rose garden, but not in the presidential bedroom.

After seven months of an aggressive Washington courtship, the prime minister has apparently left a significant number of Canadian voters with the impression he is ’twixt the sheets with George W. Bush, and far too close for comfort.

In fact, the poll suggests that Harper’s perceived love-in with the increasingly unpopular U.S. president is the foremost single cause of what ails the minority Conservative government.

snip

Topping the list of things voters dislike most about the Harper government is “too close to the U.S.,” and the Conservatives’ military policies — presumably Canada’s role in the Afghanistan war.

more

http://torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Weston_Greg/2006/09/02/1797801.html

Edited to add: This poll was BEFORE this latest "friendly fire" killing.

[ConcernedCanuk]

29. Zactly, - and this "friendly fire" thing should expose how careless the US

.
.
.

is in deciding who they shoot at . . .

"OH - that's collateral damage" ya know . . .

the "fog of war" and all

WELL

for a Military that is supposed to be a "superpower"

ya think they could afford to make SURE who the feck they are shooting at - -

16% of Canadians killed in Afghanistan were at the hands of the Americans

How do you think we feel about y'all NOW??

I know it's not the regular citizens that are directly responsible for this -

But y'all either ELECTED Bush twice,

or let him steal the elections

Either way

You have a homicidal maniac running your country, . .

And not stopping him.

(sigh)

[MrModerate]

3. Because war is not a science, or an art . . .

Or anything but semiorganized violence. "Friendly fire" incidents are inevitable.

[sutz12]

4. Yeah. Just ask the Tillman family.

:shrug:

[daleo]

8. One dead and 30 wounded

"Five of the 30 soldiers wounded in the attack were to be airlifted to hospitals outside of Afghanistan. Their conditions were not immediately made public."

That must have been one hell of an attack. I read in an earlier report that it was a strafing run (that info may have changed since then). They say the other 25 will return to duty in a few days. You wonder how.

[razors edge]

13. one hell of an attacking vehicle

a warthog fires a nasty assed cannon that actually slows the plane down, a 20mm round will kick up dirt and even sand that can kill or maim, ain't technology grand?

[daleo]

14. I wondered if that might have something to do with it.

Either that, or bullet fragments. It wouldn't seem there would be much left of a person if he was hit by a round - that ammo is meant to go through tanks, if I recall correctly.

[Posteritatis]

32. They explode, too. (n/t)

[CHIMO]

9. We Can

Rest assured that the inquiry will result in procedures to prevent the reoccurance of accidents.

Friendly fire kills Canadian

In Ottawa, U.S. Ambassador David Wilkins said he had learned of the “tragic” friendly fire incident with “deep regret.”

“There will be a full and thorough investigation and we will share the results of that investigation,” Wilkins said.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1157368685914&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154

Friendly fire case: the legal saga

CBC News Online | June 6, 2005
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/friendlyfire/

[Judi Lynn]

15. Associated Press: U.S. mistakenly fires on Canadians in Afghanistan

Sept. 4, 2006, 3:42PM
U.S. mistakenly fires on Canadians in Afghanistan

By NOOR KHAN
Associated Press

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — U.S. warplanes mistakenly fired on Canadian troops fighting Taliban forces today in southern Afghanistan, killing one soldier and wounding five in an operation that NATO said also has left 200 insurgents dead.

A British soldier attached to NATO and four Afghans also were killed in a suicide vehicle bombing today in Kabul, while 16 suspected Taliban militants and five Afghan police were killed elsewhere in the country.

The intense fighting comes amid Afghanistan's deadliest spate of violence since U.S.-led forces toppled the hard-line Taliban regime for hosting al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden after the Sept. 11 attacks.

It also underscored the increased danger to NATO-led multinational forces since they took over control of security in the volatile south from the U.S.-led coalition last month.
(snip/...)

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4160979.html

(By God, you'd certainly HOPE it was a mistake!)

[ConcernedCanuk]

17. "strafing killed one Canadian. . and wounded 30 others, six seriously"

.
.
.


LES PERREAUX/CP PHOTO
Pte. Dave Partridge of Whitby and Sgt. Chad Garton and Pte. Chris Brooks of Brampton wait for orders in Panjwaii, Afghanistan, Monday, Sept 4, after hearing that one of their comrades died in a friendly fire incident a few kilometres away earlier in the day

Soldier from Hamilton killed; 30 hurt

U.S. jets strafe troops, echoes of 2002 bombing
Sep. 5, 2006. 02:28 AM
BRUCE CAMPION-SMITH AND TIM HARPER
IN OTTAWA

The A-10 Thunderbolt jet is a purpose-built killer, with a nose-mounted cannon that can spit out bullets the size of pop bottles in a fearsome barrage meant to beat back troops and tanks.

/snip/

The "friendly fire" strafing killed one Canadian — Pte. Mark Anthony Graham of Hamilton — and wounded 30 others, six seriously — and had Canadian commanders demanding answers. Graham, 33, was a member of Canada's 4x400-metre relay team at the Barcelona Olympics in 1992.

/snip/

Yet NATO and the Canadians were giving conflicting versions of what led up to the mistaken air attack, which occurred at 5:30 a.m. Kandahar time.

Abthorpe said a group of Canadian troops camped near their armoured vehicles were just waking up and had not launched operations when the A-10 barrage began

MORE

I think I'll believe the Canadian version thank you very much

But sad, so sad

[Lisa]

26. from my hometown -- and an Olympic athlete

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/breakingnews/breakingnews_1467863.html
"After the Olympics, he went to the University of Nebraska on a track and field scholarship, and later attended Kent State University in Ohio. Injuries eventually sidelined his high-level athletic career, and he returned to Hamilton to help Clark coach at his old high school."
(not the one I attended, but the one next to it ... our track team used to train with theirs. I bet some of my teachers, if they haven't retired yet, would have known him ...)



And from the Star article posted by ConcernedCanuk ... this kind of sums it up.
"The White House seemed unaware of yesterday's incident when contacted and referred all calls to the Pentagon."

[ConcernedCanuk]

27. Wow, small world - I lived in Hamilton, Stoney Creek & Grimsby in the 70's

.
.
.

In the SIXTIES,

I lived in Oakville(I was born there) and had a paper route delivering the Hamilton Spectator!

and yeah

The USa's WH seems "unaware" of quite a bit

like reality . . . ?

[Canuckistanian]

30. My cousin's from Brampton - in the PPCLI

He's in Aghanistan right now.

[sueragingroz]

18. History of Canadian Troop involvement in Afghanistan

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/afghanistan/timeline.html

Some context on the last friendly fire incident.... and how the American military dealt with it:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/friendlyfire/

[laundry_queen]

22. This proves

the American Military is absolutely unable to learn from its mistakes. Not that that is anything new.

So sad.

[MADem]

39. I gotta disagree. I think it proves that the American military is poorly

led by an incompetent commander in chief. The shit rolls downhill. Everything from quality of accessions, to provision of equipment, to articulating rules of engagement, to degree of training, all of these things have been put together in slap-dash fashion by SENIOR LEADERS...and they report to a cheap bastard in cowboy boots.

Sensor tags for our forces and allies would have prevented this. The idiot in the WH didn't want to spend the dough, apparently. And our ally, Canada, suffers for it.

[JohnyCanuck]

31. Just imagine how the shit would hit the fan

if Canadian or British troops were accidentally blowing away American GIs on a semi-regular basis.

[Posteritatis]

34. Anyone know if the identities of the wounded are out anywhere?

I know people in that unit and would like to confirm that they're each in one and only one piece. :P