Official in S.C.: Sterilize bad parents

[deadparrot]

CHARLESTON, S.C. - A City Council member, reacting to a video store holdup believed to have been carried out by children, says parents who can't properly care for their kids should be sterilized.

"We pick up stray animals and spay them," Larry Shirley said in a story published Saturday by The Post and Courier of Charleston. "These mothers need to be spayed if they can't take care of theirs. Once they have a child and it's running the street, to let them continue to have children is totally unacceptable."

Shirley's comments come after police say a video store was held up by a group of children, including a 14-year-old girl suspected of wielding a BB gun that looked like a pistol.

The holdup happened about 9 p.m. Wednesday at a Hollywood Video store. A 14-year-old girl and a 12-year-old boy were charged as juveniles with armed robbery. A 9-year-old boy was not charged because police said he was too young. He was released to his mother.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/councilman_sterilization

[MADem]

1. Wow, no Jenna, no Barbara, no Noelle, no Jorge P, no Jeb Junior....

Come to think of it, there might not be any Monkey in that case!

[saigon68]

12. Were the MINI PERP's Black?

[MADem]

21. The article doesn't say one way or another

What we've got is a failure in society, whether it's in Mount Pleasant with yuppie parents or whether it's on the East Side with poor crackhead parents," he said, referring to areas in and around Charleston.

State Sen. Robert Ford, a Charleston Democrat, agreed that the crime highlights a societal problem but dismissed Shirley's suggestion to sterilize people as "crazy."

"What Larry Shirley needs to talk about is getting City Council to provide some recreational facilities and activities for these kids and creating an atmosphere conducive to a normal society," said Ford, also a former councilman.

[saigon68]

32. whether it's on the East Side with poor crackhead parents

Have to wait for a follow up

[ClassWarrior]

2. Like Dubya** and Pickles?

NGU.

[LeighAnn]

3. Eugenics!

Wow, that's a new idea. This city council woman is a visionary! :sarcasm:

[TomInTib]

4. I remember Hilmar Moore, mayor of Rosenberg, Texas...

He said that when a mother on welfare had her second child while on welfare, she should be sterilized.

I still think it was a great idea.

But I think Mr Shirley's idea pretty much sucks.

[pinerow]

18. You must be out of your mind...

what's next...???

[rodeodance]

25. or castrating the men might work?

GEECH!

[LostinVA]

35. What a horrible remark -- ugh

More than shades of the Eugenics scourge that swept across America well into the 50's and 60's.

How about changing society instead of punishing a woman? Oh, and how come you mentioned the woman, and not the sperm donor? Huh?

I'm tired of this crap.

[Sequoia]

37. What if she's white? We know who you mean.

You better hope you are never layed off and loose your home.

[Megahurtz]

40. Why not sterilize the men INSTEAD

huh???}(

Methinks they have a lot do do with the popping out of children, ya think?:think:

[Book Lover]

43. Tom, is that really you saying that?

You would support such a thing, honestly? What an awful, elitist, classist, sexist idea. I am honestly shocked by you.

[iverglas]

45. if someone said something like this

about any other group of human beings ... say, characterized them by their race or ethnicity or religion and then suggested forcible surgery to deal with their problematic behaviours so that they couldn't overtax the welfare budget ... or the correctional system budget ... well, I think I know what might be expected to happen. (I mean, after all, aren't a lot of them rather disproportionately represented on the social assistance roles and in the prison cells?)

But say it about women, and there it sits.

Oh well. They always have the option of getting a job or getting their own selves sterilized, I guess.

I'm unable to distinguish the carefully thought-out and, I'm sure, "liberal" proposal that you think is a "great idea" from the idea of Mr. Shirley's that you think "pretty much sucks". Perhaps you can make the distinction for us, but I don't think I'll bother watching for it.

[no_hypocrisy]

5. Unfortunately Buck v. Bell has not been overturned, meaning

that a state can designate a class of people for sterilization and it's NOT unconstitutional. In B v B, the state of Virginia was designating poor people indiscriminately as "feeble minded", sent them to institutions like the Lynchburg Training School, where they would essentially be incarcerated until the surgery.

[iverglas]

46. it's short and worth reading for those who haven't

First, everybody place bets on how many "generations of imbeciles" Mr. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes asserted were "enough".

U.S. Supreme Court
BUCK v. BELL, 274 U.S. 200 (1927)
274 U.S. 200

BUCK v. BELL, Superintendent of State Colony Epileptics and Feeble Minded.

Mr. Justice HOLMES delivered the opinion of the Court.

This is a writ of error to review a judgment of the Supreme Court of Appeals of the State of Virginia, affirming a judgment of the Circuit Court of Amherst County, by which the defendant in error, the superintendent of the State Colony for Epileptics and Feeble Minded, was ordered to perform the operation of salpingectomy upon Carrie Buck, the plaintiff in error, for the purpose of making her sterile. ... The case comes here upon the contention that the statute authorizing the judgment is void under the Fourteenth Amendment as denying to the plaintiff in error due process of law and the equal protection of the laws.

Carrie Buck is a feeble-minded white woman who was committed to the State Colony above mentioned in due form. She is the daughter of a feeble- minded mother in the same institution, and the mother of an illegitimate feeble-minded child. She was eighteen years old at the time of the trial of her case in the Circuit Court in the latter part of 1924. An Act of Virginia approved March 20, 1924 ... recites that the health of the patient and the welfare of society may be promoted in certain cases by the sterilization of mental defectives, under careful safeguard, etc.; that the sterilization may be effected in males by vasectomy and in females by salpingectomy, without serious pain or substantial danger to life; that the Commonwealth is supporting in various institutions many defective persons who if now discharged would become a menace but if incapable of procreating might be discharged with safety and become self-supporting with benefit to themselves and to society; and that experience has shown that heredity plays an important part in the transmission of insanity, imbecility, etc. The statute then enacts that whenever the superintendent of certain institutions including the abovenamed State Colony shall be of opinion that it is for the best interest of the patients and of society that an inmate under his care should be sexually sterilized, he may have the operation performed upon any patient afflicted with hereditary forms of insanity, imbecility, etc., on complying with the very careful provisions by which the act protects the patients from possible abuse.

The superintendent first presents a petition to the special board of directors of his hospital or colony, stating the facts and the grounds for his opinion, verified by affidavit. Notice of the petition and of the time and place of the hearing in the institution is to be served upon the inmate, and also upon his guardian, and if there is no guardian the superintendent is to apply to the Circuit Court of the County to appoint one. If the inmate is a minor notice also is to be given to his parents, if any, with a copy of the petition. The board is to see to it that the inmate may attend the hearings if desired by him or his guardian. The evidence is all to be reduced to writing, and after the board has made its order for or against the operation, the superintendent, or the inmate, or his guardian, may appeal to the Circuit Court of the County. The Circuit Court may consider the record of the board and the evidence before it and such other admissible evidence as may be offered, and may affirm, revise, or reverse the order of the board and enter such order as it deems just. Finally any party may apply to the Supreme Court of Appeals, which, if it grants the appeal, is to hear the case upon the record of the trial in the Circuit Court and may enter such order as it thinks the Circuit Court should have entered. There can be no doubt that so far as procedure is concerned the rights of the patient are most carefully considered, and as every step in this case was taken in scrupulous compliance with the statute and after months of observation, there is no doubt that in that respect the plaintiff in error has had due process at law.

The attack is not upon the procedure but upon the substantive law. It seems to be contended that in no circumstances could such an order be justified. It certainly is contended that the order cannot be justified upon the existing grounds. The judgment finds the facts that have been recited and that Carrie Buck 'is the probable potential parent of socially inadequate offspring, likewise afflicted, that she may be sexually sterilized without detriment to her general health and that her welfare and that of society will be promoted by her sterilization,' and thereupon makes the order. In view of the general declarations of the Legislature and the specific findings of the Court obviously we cannot say as matter of law that the grounds do not exist, and if they exist they justify the result. We have seen more than once that the public welfare may call upon the best citizens for their lives. It would be strange if it could not call upon those who already sap the strength of the State for these lesser sacrifices, often not felt to be such by those concerned, in order to prevent our being swamped with incompetence. It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes. Jacobson v. Massachusetts, ... . Three generations of imbeciles are enough. But, it is said, however it might be if this reasoning were applied generally, it fails when it is confined to the small number who are in the institutions named and is not applied to the multitudes outside. It is the usual last resort of constitutional arguments to point out shortcomings of this sort. But the answer is that the law does all that is needed when it does all that it can, indicates a policy, applies it to all within the lines, and seeks to bring within the lines all similary situated so far and so fast as its means allow. Of course so far as the operations enable those who otherwise must be kept confined to be returned to the world, and thus open the asylum to others, the equality aimed at will be more nearly reached.

Judgment affirmed.

Mr. Justice BUTLER dissents.

Virginia did repeal the statute in question about 3 years ago, if memory serves on the timeline.

[saigon68]

47. Love the quote . "Three generations of imbeciles are enough"

</sarcasm>

I'm sure the NEOCONs approve

[iverglas]

50. I know

A few months ago, my mother used some gift certificate she had to have her eyebrows dyed. She's a pale blonde, even at age 76, with pale blonde eyebrows she has never liked. Well, she came out with dark brown eyebrows, big 'uns, sitting there on her face with her pale blue eyes and pale blonde eyelashes and pale pinky skin. Liz Taylor meets Bozo the clown. A picture got taken of her in that state with my sister and her two kids, and mother and daughters also somehow managed to make themselves look like complete tools; just one of those all-round failed photos. My mum told me about it before she showed it to my sister, so I passed on the caption for her to use: Three generations of imbeciles are enough.

[Lurking Dem]

56. "Three generations of imbeciles are enough."

Why did I suddenly picture the Bush family?

[1932]

6. I can't think of situation where a society has looked back and thought

hey, that eugenics we did was a great idea and our criteria for deciding who gets to have a family are timeless in their appropriateness.

[LiberalFighter]

7. How will that stop the children from committing crimes?

How many parents of 12-16 year olds are planning to have additional kids? That would be a waste of taxpayer taxes.

The minors involved need to be punished not the parents. Yes, parents need to be held to some degree of responsibility. But it is difficult when parents can't discipline kids without child services stepping in. Those that care about their kids welfare.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

8. I guess they should spay and neuter the children too...

After all, they'll probably just grow up to be poor mongrels.

What a compassionate fellow this Mr Shirley is!

[ruiner4u]

9. And remember folks, have your Republican spayed or neutered.

http://www.cafepress.com/talkinghamster/1273717



Not as good as the original I saw, but still funny.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

10. "These mothers need to be spayed"????? I would love to know the race of

the kids involved in the video store holdup, that this city official feels comfortable referring to their parents in animal terms.

Larry Shirley needs to be neutered with one swift, hard kick where it counts.

[Skittles]

11. Skittles in D.U.: Sterilize bad city council members

yes INDEEED

[Vinca]

13. He says "parents," but only mentions mothers.

I say we lop off penises instead. Fair is fair, Larry.

[bleedingheart]

26. yeah...cuz we all know it is the woman's responsibility

and only her responsibility to raise and rear a child....
:sarcasm:

[Lurking Dem]

14. Yikes

That's egregious headline writing. It's one idiot city council member in Charleston.

That said, I was told once I should be "spayed" by one of the higher-ups at PETA. Let's just say it didn't endear me.

[William Bloode]

19. Yeah, i gotten that to from some liberal groups.

I have been called a "breeder", and told i didn't know when to quit. Generally berated because i have 4 kids.

[Lurking Dem]

27. I was berated

for carrying a "genetic defect".

Maybe we should suggest that Charleston city council members get "fixed"?

[Bluzmann57]

15. This guy has "Top Ten" list written all over him

I mean, if this guy isn't a conservative idiot, then who is? Wait, there are too many to list.

[allisonthegreat]

16. Leave it to my home town...

This councilman is the real perp here. totally crappy remarks and unnecessary.

[Hepburn]

17. Too bad...

...that this law was not in place wherever George, Sr., and Barbara spawned Chimpy. The world would be a much better place if that bastard had never been born.

[skip fox]

20. Which means Shirley must believe in evolution.

:)

[Durtrider]

23. My first post so be gentle

:hide:

We consume more natural resources than any other nation on this over populated planet.

I recall years ago when the solution to combat the dreaded fruit fly was to release sterile flies to wear out the potent flies until they were all gone so in all practicality without being morbid about the concept --- sterilization is a option that someday must be considered like China does to control it's population.

Soylent Green is "people"

[skip fox]

42. No reason to be gentle with intelligence.

God ost and

welcome to DU :hi:

[wickerwoman]

61. Then let's sterilize suburban families...

they're the ones consuming all the resources. I think what people are responding to here is the idea of sterilizing people forcibly because they aren't the kind of people we want breeding- because by the government's standard they are "bad parents". Hell, even in China you don't have to pass a parenting test to have a kid.

And the probablity that these kids were runaways seems to have been left far behind in this crazy discussion.

[midnight]

62. Thank you for your very intelligent response.....

Imagine all the impulsive behavior our children will go through until 24 years of age.... Very scary. Imagine that your the parent of a child that does something incorrect. Imagine them coming to you and saying we don't like your kind and we are going to sterlize you. Absolutely been tried before in Germany, with the mentally ill, and now on any of us.....No thanks!!!!!!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

22. in sentiment i agree with him completely

i dont think sterlization should be forced...but most people shouldnt breed

[rodeodance]

24. his direct quote was only ""These mothers"

CHARLESTON, S.C. - A City Council member, reacting to a video store holdup believed to have been carried out by children, says parents who can't properly care for their kids should be sterilized.

"We pick up stray animals and spay them," Larry Shirley said in a story published Saturday by The Post and Courier of Charleston. "These mothers need to be spayed if they can't take care of theirs. Once they have a child and it's running the street, to let them continue to have children is totally unacceptable."

[SenorSanchez]

28. This a complicated issue

It would very morally wrong to sterilize someone. This country does have a problem with irresponsible parents who just dump there children on the state and expect someone esle will raise them. Sterilization is definitely not the answer. I would suggest stricker penalties for neglect.

[AlienGirl]

29. I would suggest a better social network for families

In my opinion, many of the people who are "dumping their kids on the state" are doing so because they are working too many hours, often at more than one job, trying to make ends meet, and they lack the time or energy to put into properly parenting their kids. The support that in the past would have come from the parents' extended family, and from neighbors, isn't there anymore, so Mom and Dad can't just call in Grandma or Aunty to babysit.

The biggest problem here is that the nuclear family is a failure. A big collosal failure. People were not meant to live in groups of two adults and some kids, disconnected from their community. Humans have always done best in tribal/extended-family groups where the older generations are there to model behavior for and keep watch over the kids. What needs to happen is we need to figure out how to promote that kind of social network again, whether it is blood-related family groups or groups of affiliation that function like extended families.

Tucker

[SenorSanchez]

30. Its not necessarily the ones are working

its ones who are not working and who are on drugs that cause a lot of these problems.

[AlienGirl]

31. A proper social network would still help solve that

If there are many adults around to support you when you're a teenager, you're less likely to start taking drugs in the first place.

Also, at some point along the line, the network *broke.* It may have been a generation back when the mother's parents were too busy or distracted to notice she was getting drunk at age 14, and there were no extra watchful eyes in the form of grandmothers or aunts or neighbors to address the problem. But somewhere, the socialization process that has served humans well for the last hundred thousand years was broken, and where there should be complex threads of interwoven social networks, there is anomie and neglect.

The 50's were a failure. The nuclear family doesn't work.

Tucker

[Lance_Boyle]

33. forced sterilization would (still) be a bad thing

I think there's just no getting around it - one cannot grant the state the authority to decide which citizens can reproduce and which cannot without impinging on the whole life/liberty/pursuit of happiness thing in a totally unacceptable way.

That said, it might be worthwhile to make tubal ligations and vasectomies available at little or no cost to individuals who choose that option. I wonder if Mr. Shirley would be amenable to considering an alternate proposal that sets aside state funds to help people pay for entirely voluntary sterilization procedures? I get the impression he's only interested in using sterilization as a punishment for "these mothers," not as a tool for addressing social issues.

[noonwitch]

34. I agree, but I am all for voluntary sterilization of crackheads

I remember a while back, a rich guy was offering crackhead and junkie women a financial incentive to get their tubes tied. I'm all for that, despite the numerous groups who decried his efforts as taking advantage of ill women and all that crap. I just think he should have also extended his program to alcoholic women, as that is probably the one thing that does the most damage to a fetus.

Crack babies biggest problems usually don't show up until they are older, and that seems to be behavior problems, not intellectual deficits. Heroin babies can have lots of complications, but the mothers usually check into a methadone program for the end part of their pregnancy (usually because they were arrested for something and found to be pregnant while in jail).

I don't think the government should be deciding who gets sterilized, that would be akin to the Nazis. I do think that women who are not going to use birth control, but will be using drugs or alcohol while pregnant should be educated about the benefits of tubal ligation. I also think that parents of developmentally disabled people should be allowed to get their children's tubes tied/vasectomy. It saves a lot of grief in the long run.

[progressivebydesign]

36. Hmm... Heavy handed... but some people should NOT reproduce.

I've worked amongst kids who were born to parents that were addicted, abusive, and completely unable to raise a child properly. This guy sounds like a total kook... but I do wish there was a way to stop some people from having children. The kids usually all end up in the system some how.. whether drug addicted, foster homes, jail system, or otherwise.

[Hosnon]

38. Self-delete

[Hosnon]

39. Child bearing is a "fundamental right"...sorry dude. nt

[Megahurtz]

41. Sterilize All Republicans!

And hurry! :sarcasm:

[anotherdrew]

44. hell, Sterilize everyone and make them take a pill to be fertile n/t

[bamacrat]

48. Well, they have a point

[LostinVA]

51. oh boy

[OnionPatch]

52. I have to admit to thoughts along those lines on occasion

:evilgrin:

Of course when I think it through, I do see how horribly wrong it would be to start letting the government decide who has kids. :scared:

[oldboy101]

49. Larry Shirley was interviewed earlier today.

It was either on CNN or MSNBC, I don't recall which network now. He said the fact that the mothers in question were black had no bearing on his comment.

Yeh, right. I suggest that he set an example to others by volunteering to be castrated. That should help hold down the population of the feeble-minded IMO.

[MGD]

53. It wouldn't be the first time Americans were involuntarily sterilized

for undesirable characteristics. You should probably just let mother nature cull her herds in her own ways.

[Vidar]

54. Too late for Poppy & Barb. Their abortion lived.

[saigon68]

57. NO THE PLACENTA LIVED

[Vidar]

59. Apparently grew into a brainstem. No though, but the fucker breathes.

[saigon68]

63. And became a "WAR CRIMINAL BRAINSTEM"

lol

[patrick t. cakes]

55. what comes next?

after we clear society of undesirables, do we start breeding a "master race"?

[KamaAina]

58. Isn't Colbert from Charleston?

"Tonight's Word: Sterilization"

(on screen: "For Moronic Racist Politicians")

[Duppers]

60. what's the root cause of most of society's problems?

All children should be loved and be care for to the max, and many cruel, uncaring idiots should never have become parents.

Parenting is the biggest obligation anyone can have; most don't take it nearly serious enough.

[Judi Lynn]

64. He's damned lucky no one has tried to retroactively abort all the

truly ugly, shifty, cheesy looking, furtive, colossal-nosed, beady eyed politicians.



Councilman Larry D. Shirley

[The Animator]

65. Let's just limit it to stupid people...

Stupid people shouldn't breed. The proportion of stupid to smart people in this country is at least 100 to 1. The problem is this, smart people, realizing that there is a severe population problem have decided for the most part, not to have children, or only the maximum number of children they can support. Stupid people just keep pounding them out like license plates.

Doubt me? Take a feild trip out to Walmart, (you don't have to buy anything while there) and it won't take long. You'll see exactly the kind of family I'm talking about. Dumb, and Dumber, with about 10 hyperactive, yelling, tantrum throwing spawn. Like watching Jerry Spinger Live, isn't it?

Now imagine each of those 8 growing to maturity, or at least 15, and pounding out a couple dozen license plates of there own. Scary.

We are drowning in stupid people.

Fortunately, there are some stupid people who, in an incredible act of self sacrifice, have removed themselves from the genepool by getting themselves killed. They are usually honor each year by the circulation of the Darwin Awards e-mails.

Too bad natural selection doesn't work fast enough.