Blacks in Queens Make More Than Whites

[DoYouEverWonder]

October 1, 2006, 9:01 AM EDT

NEW YORK -- Queens is the only large county in the nation where the median income of black residents has surpassed that of white residents, a newspaper analysis found.

The picture is quite different across the river in Manhattan, where the gap between whites and blacks is wider than in any other large county in the country, according to a New York Times analysis of Census data.

The report, published Sunday, examined Census Bureau data from all U.S. counties with more than 65,000 residents.

In Manhattan, the annual median income of whites was $86,494 -- greatly outpacing the $28,116 reported by blacks.

In Queens, home to about 2 million people, black households reported a median income of $51,836 -- higher than the $50,960 reported for non-Hispanic whites. Asians in the borough reported a median income of nearly $53,000, while Hispanics reported incomes of about $44,000.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-income-race,0,4487970.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

Queens is very middle class. Seems everyone is about equal there but it's nice to the blacks ahead for a change. Manhattan is another story and not a fair comparison since you go from the super rich on 5th Avenue to the super poor up in Harlem. The range is much broader there then it is in Queens.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. Nice to hear that things are evening out SOMEWHERE

I wonder if this is a trend? I certainly have a lot of black friends and colleagues who make a lot more than I do.

[marmar]

2. Queens has some very well-to-do black enclaves...

like Jamaica Estates.

[DoYouEverWonder]

3. I love that part of Queens

my family still lives over by Forest Park.

[HockeyMom]

4. Rent Control and Rent Stabilization

Elimination of that brought about the sky high rents, initially. 30 years ago I could afford to live alone in the West Village on a secretary's salary.

I could kick myself that I didn't keep my Mom's rent stabilized $450 2 bedroom apartment in Chelsea.

[lgn19087]

7. Wait

so do you think rent control helped or hurt?

[HockeyMom]

8. Helped

They couldn't charge whatever they wanted.

[lgn19087]

11. rent control is an economic illusion

read any econ text and you'll see why.

[NYC]

12. Point me in the right direction, please.

Or give me some sort of explanation why rent control is an economic illusion. I'm very curious.

New Yorkers rely on rent regulations.

Someone mentioned Harlem further down in this thread. About a year ago, a friend moved to Harlem. It is a nearly 50 year old brick building (what I describe as a standard 20 story brick, except that hers is only about 14 stories), and her rent was $1,545 per month.

If we didn't have rent regulations with regulated increases the people living in that building before her would all be paying $1,545 per month or would have been forced out by the price. Regulated increases allow middle income people to continue living in their apartments. In her building, if people have been living there long enough, their rents could be half what hers is.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[lgn19087]

17. Prices are dictated by the market.

If the prices were so high that nobody could afford them, then the prices would have to come down. That's a very simple economic concept known as supply and demand. Rent control may put a cap on rents, but they don't put a cap on costs for developers and landlords. If a landlord can only charge X dollars a month for an apartment, why would he put his money there and not somewhere where he could charge whatever the market dictates. This also leads to a general degredation in the condition of the housing itself. In a non-rent controlled area, a landlord would be able to charge higher rates for value-added items such as new plumbing, windows, siding, whatever. However, if he can only get a limited ammount for the appartment anyway, why would he invest money into improvements?

[NYC]

21. Different system here.

Landlords do get money for improvements. Regulations don't stop that.

Also, landlord profits and costs are taken into consideration when setting rent increases.

But I see what you mean. Property would be abandoned if rents were not high enough, etc. Nobody would live there if rents were too high, etc.

Thanks.

[lgn19087]

22. I didn't realize it was different

I just don't see any reason to have the government get involved when the market forces could work it out on their own.

[NYC]

23. Landlords gouge tenants as it is.

Rents are regulated, but that does not mean there are not variables.

Capital improvements cause rent increases above and beyond the established rent. So, although we have regulations, they are not engraved in stone. Rents do go up. (They never go down.)

Shortly after WW2, veterans, along with family, pets, furniture, were put out on the sidewalk. I've seen many pictures from old newspapers. That's the sort of thing that inspired NYC to get rent regulations.

[Sterling]

28. It's because you have no idea what NYC is like

more importantly was like. At one point most everyone in NYC moved once a year on what was called moving day. The day when landlords arbitrarily evicted everyone and raised the rents. Landlords in NYC are evil. That is why we need the laws.

[lowreed]

24. supply and demand?

If demand far, far outweighs supply, less than 5% vacancy rate aka housing emergency, the model doesn't work in real life.
I suggest that landlords that don't think it is profitable to own rent regulated property change occupations.
The Related Companies is a major Manhattan developer who makes plenty of $ producing low and middle income housing along with "market" rate apartments.


edited for crappy spelling.

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. I grew up in Queens: it remains one of the most segregated areas

I've ever been in. You literally know that by crossing a street, you're entering an area with a different racial make-up.

Some improvement on that score since the 80's, but not much.

[keta11]

10. I love Quuens but dont care about the segregation

and racial suspicion etc. Howard Beach is the worst!!

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. Howard Beach, Whitestone, Bayside, Douglaston

All segregated white neighborhoods, for the most part. East Elmhurst, Springfield, Jamaica, mostly black. Corona is Latino, with still some blocks retaining the Italian poprtioons, although smaller and smaller. Jackson Heights is Latino and Indian. Then if you look at neighborhoods like Woodside, Glendale, Ridgewood, Rosedale, Middle Village all have very distinct population areas marked off by race. Flushing is a mega neighborhood, but everyone knows which street you cross to get into the white, hispanic, black, Asian neighborhoods. Hell, if you look at Pomonoc Projects and Electchester, you have rigidly segregated portions even within the same blocked out development. The same can be said about almost any neighborhood in Queens. Not that I don't love Queens. I do. Let's go Mets. The only saving grace is that most of these populations that live separately have to go to SCHOOL together!

[ariesgem]

20. I grew up in Springfield Gardens in the 60's & 70's and still have

deep roots (my entire extended family) spread throughout Queens. Back then, I remember Rosedale being entirely made up of Italian Americans and we (black folks) wouldn't dare cross that line into Rosedale or it was guaranteed that we would get chased out- no questions asked. However, I remember sharing schools with the kids from Rosedale - PS 156, JH 231 and Springfield High. As a result of sharing schools, I had many friends that came from Rosedale.

Springfield Gardens consisted of people that worked for the City - cops, fireman, teachers, social workers, sanitation, etc... and small business owners. Everyone owned and took pride in the upkeep of their homes. My next door neighbor was obsessive with the upkeep of his lawn and had a friendly competition with my father.

My grandmother lived Corona up until she died (in 93) and I remember before I moved to California that the area had a growing Dominican population.

I miss NY :cry:. My sister called the other day and I heard the Mr. Softee truck in the background. Hearing that brought me back to my childhood.

[jaysunb]

6. Wow ! just like Harlem.

:sarcasm:

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. I guess since Clinton moved in

it's not so low rent anymore?

Sorry, but I remember when the South Bronx looked like a war zone.

[Chovexani]

13. Super poor in Harlem? LOL

Obviously you haven't been to 125th St. lately. The yuppie Borg is assimilating it faster than you can say "resistance is futile".

[DoYouEverWonder]

14. Yeah, I know

old stereotypes are hard to break I suppose. I know it's gotten pretty upscale in the last few years, especially since Clinton moved in. I've heard that a lot of people who lived there for years are complaining because they can't afford it anymore.

[Chovexani]

18. It's a shame

The further north you get, the better chance of finding something affordable, but that'll change too.

I love NY dearly, was born and raised there and have lived there my whole life up till now, but I just can't afford to live there.

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. Resistance is feudal...

;-)

[Chovexani]

19. That was bad

:P But oh so true. The middle class is shrinking at a faster rate in NY than anywhere else, I think.

[marmar]

25. It's got to be...

I have three friends sharing an apartment the size of a college dorm refrigerator in NoHo, and their individual portions of the rent are each more than I pay for a vast one bedroom with a sliding glass door and garden patio. I lived in Westchester (a bargain compared to Manhattan) for three years and paid $800 a month for a closet-sized apartment that didn't even have a bedroom. It had a bed indentation.

[Tesha]

26. Forgive my flippancy, but did anyone else immediately flash to these guys?

[Blue_Tires]

27. well played!

[ecstatic]

29. How does one survive on 28k in Manhattan?!?

Where rents are sky high? Or did they average in the reported earnings of homeless (which there are a lot of in Manhattan)? :shrug: