Jewish voters object to new polling place

[OhioChick]

Sunday, October 01, 2006
Michael O'Malley
Plain Dealer Reporter

Cleveland Heights- Some Orthodox Jews are upset with the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections for moving their voting place from a public school building to a Christian church.

Rabbi Sruly Wolf, 55, of Cleveland Heights, said the move will keep hundreds of Jewish voters from casting ballots because they are uncomfortable going into places of worship other than their own.

"The biggest issue is that it was done without consulting anybody," said Wolf. "It's insensitivity, at best. At worst, it's anti-Semitic."

Elections Director Michael Vu said the board has polling places in 149 churches and one synagogue throughout the county. He said this is the first time he has heard concerns about voting in a religious place.

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1159691835312040.xml&coll=2

[liberal N proud]

1. Polling place should not be located in any religious facility.

It is direct violation of the separation of church and state.

Ohio has magically placed a large majority of polling places in Christian Churches. Simply amazing.
These churches get the rent money from the state for the space on election day plus the chance to put their brand of religion in the voters face.

[OhioChick]

2. Auto workers oppose voting at Toyota dealership

(from yesterday)

LORAIN, Ohio (AP) -- Auto workers in Lorain are trying to put the brakes on a plan to locate a voting station at a Toyota dealership.

The Lorain County elections board asked Premier Toyota Scion in Amherst to serve as a polling place because a vacant church that was used in the past is no longer available.

Toyota owner Robert Fisher says he was honored to help. But Fisher has learned that elections officials are reconsidering the plan because of pressure from people who don't want to vote in a Toyota dealership.

The county's election director Marilyn Jacobcik didn't return a phone call seeking comment today.
http://www.wsyx6.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.oh/21bb31dc-www.wsyx6.com.shtml

[liberal N proud]

5. Robert Fisher most likely good friends with Lorain Cty BOE official

I missed that article, thanks for posting.
I will be at an event this afternoon where several UAW workers will be in attendance, I will bring this up, if I get a chance and see what they see going on. These are UAW people that are active in the Democratic party in Lorain county.

[liberal N proud]

45. I spoke to a Union Official about this today

The polling place has been moved from the Toyota dealership to the Union Hall that is actually in Lorain and not Amherst.
Part of the issue was the polling place was moved out of the precinct and city where the voters lived.


Even bigger - Blackwell had something to do with the move to the Toyota dealer, who would have guessed.

[OhioChick]

56. Interesting.......

Thanks for the update.

[Poppyseedman]

9. No it isn't

"It is direct violation of the separation of church and state"

There are many places in voting districts where a church building is the only suitable place for people to vote.

Does that mean the Jewish voters don't have a beef. I think they do, the state should make their voting place as non-threatening as possible as long as all the OTHER voters in the district are not put out of their way to vote.

If people are so swayed by the place their vote in, once or twice a year, maybe they aren't cogent enough to make a decision as important as voting.

Just my opinion

[MindPilot]

13. Just because "many" places do it doesn't mean it's not a violation.

A town doesn't have schools, libraries, courthouses, police stations, admin buildings, fire stations, rec halls or any of the other public spaces I can't think of right now?

[happyslug]

16. If you want voting Districts to be within Walking distance YES.

Voting Districts tend to be very small. First to make it easier for people to get to the voting place and Second to be able to Draw Congressional, state and Local Districts small enough to keep all of them within 2-3% of each other. Changing Districts, even merging Voting Districts can be difficult for unless both districts are in the same Congressional, state and Local Districts, you can not merge them. If they are in the same Congressional, State and Local Districts, merger can take place, but then makes it harder to keep all districts within 2-3% of each other.

Thus Voting Districts tend to be quite small and often have no public buildings in them (and sometime where public buildings do occur within the distinct they tend NOT to have with rooms large enough to hold an election in). Thus you have to find some other building/room large enough to hold an election that is in or near the District.

[MindPilot]

19. Your very informative post downthread makes that clear

Thanks for that. While it's obvious that finding a place can be difficult, my point is that doesn't negate the church-state separation issue.

All the more reason to vote absentee.

[Kagemusha]

20. In an ideal world, they wouldn't do this, but frankly...

A lot of people are used to seeing churches as the same as "society" itself so the links between things like voting and churches are rarely questioned. The difference has been, it used to be that both major parties were so strongly identified with Christian religion that holding a vote there wasn't viewed as being the mixing of GOVERNMENT with church, nor any particular party.

Now, was this yet another example of the for-granted soft racism that existed long after hard racism went out of vogue? Absolutely. But, given the realities of land usage, just getting up one day and saying "No more voting in churches!" is a very difficult thing to implement.

Though, this article is about moving a polling place TO a church, where it had not been before, which made things less kosher to Jewish voters. In a democracy, they should have every right to voice those concerns simply because the issue matters to them. (I say that but, I'm sure some people will find it objectionable on the basis of, 'This is a Christian country'.)

[maseman]

32. I have always voted in one of two Christian churches

I agree it would be troublesome if you had to walk through a sanctuary to vote. But I walk into a small fellowship hall with basically no signs that it is a church except the sign out front.

I think we have bigger fish to fry then this issue like the machines themselves.

[Poppyseedman]

28. The only way having a polling place in a church building

that would violate the concept of the separation of church and state is to deny people of non religious belief their right to vote there.

The separation clause of the Constitution "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" cannot be construed as a violation since BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES HAVE PERSONS OF FAITH that vote.

Your problem with a polling place in a church is more of a personal misconception and biased than actual understanding of what the law reads.

This anti-religious fervor among the democratic faithful is silly and misplaced. Oh' and costs us votes from religious people who get tired of their faith being denigrated

[MindPilot]

38. If a citizen has to enter a church to conduct government business,

it is a violation of the separation clause because the government is showing preference to one religion over no religion. While I agree however reluctantly that it may ba a violation we have to accept, that doesn't make it OK simply because "both parties have persons of faith that vote". Both parties have persons of no faith who vote too. (Fortunately most of them are smart enough to not vote for republicans.)

[Poppyseedman]

39. No, the government isn't showing preference

one religion over no religion when a citizen enters a church to conduct business. If the government required the polling booth to be in the sanctuary as a requirement to vote or a polling place must be conducted in a church building, I would agree. The church building itself does not an endorsement of a particular faith or way to vote.

It would be also showing a preference if the government excluded certain religious buildings from being polling places if they were a certain faith, it would be in violation of the separation clause.

Say it declared a Mosque or a Unitarian Church as unacceptable. That would be illegal.

Do you really want the Federal government deciding where a person can vote.???

[MindPilot]

42. The government--by its INaction--is deciding where you can vote

and because governments, state, federal and local, have failed to provide adequate municipal facilities, they have effectively decided you will vote in a church. I cringed at the thought upthread of voting at the Toyota dealer...the movie Used Cars ran through my head.

Suppose you are a Catholic who had a traumatic encounter with a priest as a child and you have panic attacks at the mere thought of being in a church, but your polling place is a Catholic church. What if your polling place is a Wal-Mart? Do you think that would influence at least some people's votes?

Extreme examples of course, and still voting in someplace less than ideal is far preferable to not voting at all, but in a perfect world...

[Poppyseedman]

51. We are the government

if people thought voting in a church was a serious issue, serious enough to spend tax dollars on to improve local facilities enough to ensure people can vote quickly and efficiently, then the people will do it.

99% of people, which is about 20% of the total population, who actually vote could care less where they cast their ballot as long as they can vote relativity quickly and with as little hassle as possible

The people who run our government have provided several ways to make voting to all eligible persons as easy as possible. So if extreme issues do happen, people can still vote without burdening the rest of the voters with their particular issue.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OhioChick]

60. What? n/t

[dsc]

36. I agree with much of what you put here

but schools have started to kick voting out post Columbine due to security issues.

[LeftyMom]

63. It needs to be a handicapped accessible place with ample parking

and at least one big room that will be free all day on a weekday. Churches are usually a good choice because they generally meet all of those requirements. Schools can be a sticky situation because parking can be an issue during the day, there may not be an adequate and accessible room free and there's often a hesitation to let a parade of strange adults onto the premises all day.

All sorts of buildings get used, growing up the polling place for my area was the garage of a family up the road. Most jurisdictions aren't in a position to decline any suitable space. :shrug:

[cspanlovr]

22. So has Georgia. I used to vote at Kroger, as of 2002,

it was moved to a Christian church. I'm from NY originally where public schools were used. I don't know why they don't use them. I thought that was why school is closed on election day.

[LiberalFighter]

27. We didn't close schools on election day in Wisconsin

when I was in high school. Our high school was one location used for voting. My parents and I voted at a building in a park for a while.

Elections in Wisconsin are held in Sept and Nov.

[NYC]

33. I have voted in churches and synagogues.

Never thought twice about it.

[UncleSepp]

37. It's practical. Church buildings have what a polling place needs.

From a practical standpoint, a worship facility is a building that is designed to have a number of people in it, but that doesn't house goods (like a store). They'll have enough room for the booths and the voters, good parking, toilets, and so forth. Also, most places of worship aren't usually doing their normal business on an election day, so the facilities aren't in use.

[Boston Critic]

40. It's a problem

For Orthodox Jews, entering a facility where Christians worship their deity is a distinct problem.

Imagine if this had been set up in a mosque.

Polling places should not be set up in religious building to avoid precisely these sorts of conflcts/

[UncleSepp]

66. I was saying that it isn't a conspiracy

If it had been set up in a mosque or a Buddhist temple, the problem would be the same. Imagining it being a mosque is not different from imagining it being a church.

I was responding to a different thought. The reasons why places of worship are used as polling places are pragmatic, practical measures that work in most cases, not elements of an agenda to push religion on voters as was claimed upthread. The reasons why places of worship used as polling places are not functional in all specific cases are that not all people of one religion can enter the place of worship of another religion. That point I have not argued, am not arguing now, and will not argue in the future.

[Eurobabe]

64. YOU GOT IT! Duh-Hio, I had to vote in an Evangelical Church

But then again I remember voting in a couple Episcopal Churches in PA in the 80s.

[SoyCat]

71. I agree. I'm atheist and have always detested voting in churches.

[KareBear]

3. Missouri does this all the time too...

I've always wondered how this is legal. Its incredibly insensitive.

[salin]

8. I have voted in Churches in California and Indiana

this is very common.

[HockeyMom]

4. Girl Scout Meetings

They used to have them when my daughter was young in the school. One year they switched it to a local Christian church basement. Yes, the Jewish parents did not want to send their daughters to a Scout meeting in a church.
One girl's mother volunteered to hold the troop meetings in her home until they could get the school building again.

Personally, I don't like the idea of voting in a house of worship; any kind at all. If a public school isn't available, isn't there a town library, town hall, etc., etc.?

[roseBudd]

6. Research: Can Polling Location Influence How Voters Vote?

http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/research/pubpolicy_wheeler_pollinglocation.shtml

STANFORD GRADUATE SCHOOL OF BUSINESS — What would you say influenced your voting decisions in the most recent local or national election? Political preferences? A candidate’s stance on a particular issue? The repercussions of a proposition on your economic well-being? All these “rational” factors influence voting, and peoples’ ability to vote, based on what is best for them, is a hallmark of the democratic process.

But Stanford Graduate School of Business researchers, doctoral candidates Jonah Berger and Marc Meredith, and S. Christian Wheeler, associate professor of marketing, conclude that a much more subtle and arbitrary factor may also play a role—the particular type of polling location in which you happen to vote.

It’s hard to imagine that something as innocuous as polling location (e.g., school, church, or fire station) might actually influence voting behavior, but the Stanford researchers have discovered just that. In fact, Wheeler says “the influence of polling location on voting found in our research would be more than enough to change the outcome of a close election.” And, as seen in the neck-to-neck 2000 presidential election where Al Gore ultimately lost to George W. Bush after months of vote counting in Florida, election biases such as polling location could play a significant role in the 2008 presidential election. Even at the proposition level, “Voting at a school could increase support for school spending or voting at a church could decrease support for stem cell initiatives,” says Wheeler.

Why might something like polling location influence voting behavior? “Environmental cues, such as objects or places, can activate related constructs within individuals and influence the way they behave,” says Berger. “Voting in a school, for example, could activate the part of a person’s identity that cares about kids, or norms about taking care of the community. Similarly, voting in a church could activate norms of following church doctrine. Such effects may even occur outside an individual’s awareness.”

[LiberalFighter]

29. Let's vote in saloons like they use to in the old days.

[daleo]

53. Interesting research

It might explain why churches are being used more often these days. It would be interesting to see if there is a correlation between the party that controls the polling place decision, and the locations chosen (i.e. do Republicans prefer churches and Democrats prefer schools?).

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

7. As a Jew, I think that's ridiculous. We used to vote at the Knights

of Columbus in NN. That never stopped me from voting.

[Sgent]

11. Orthodox believe

that entering into a foriegn God's worship area violates the mitzvoh requiring them to worship only the God of Abraham.

Most that I know, only consider this to be the case in the sanctuary itself -- so they would vote in the church's gym or fellowship hall.

That said, I could certainly see many orthdox having trouble with this.

[Boston Critic]

41. As a Jew, you are misinformed

Knights of Columbus is a social organization, even if religiously organized.

It is NOT the same thing as a church.

I speak as a Jew who would not have a problem voting in a church, but knowing Jews who would have strong religious objections.

The easy answer is not to set up polling places in churches, mosques, ashrams, or synagogues.

[Tesha]

72. Sure they are.

> Knights of Columbus is a social organization,
> even if religiously organized.

Sure they are. That must be why you'll often find
the KofC helping to turn people out for anti-choice
marches and the like.

Don't kid yourself: they're a religious organization.

Tesha

[IndianaGreen]

10. "The biggest issue is that it was done without consulting anybody,"

The polling place, which included two precincts, was in the heart of a neighborhood that is heavily populated by Orthodox Jewish residents.

The location was moved to the Euclid Avenue Christian Church on Mayfield Road, just outside the neighborhood.

Well, duh? We have a similar problem here in Indiana when polling places are changed shortly before election day, usually in Democratic areas, creating confusion among the voters. Moving a polling place outside the neighborhood would definitely be an issue in any community!

Rabbi Wolf is correct in making the point that the public is never consulted by those in the public trust.

[happyslug]

12. Finding Voting places can be difficult

First the building has to be in (or as in this case according to the Article) near the voting District. Second it has to be available on Election day (If someone is using the room or building the same day means it can NOT be uses as a n election place). Third it has to be wheelchair accessible(Through this can be waived if nothing else is available). Fourth it must NOT be a place that normally sell Liquor (This is an old rule from the 1800s when it was NOT uncommon for people to vote for alcohol, it is still the law in most states so Bars, Saloons and most Hotels can NOT be used as Voting Places, in fact many states have laws as HOW near a Voting place can be near a place that sell Liquor which furthers restricts where the county can put a Voting Place, and this restriction often includes Establishments CLOSED on election day).

In my home town their recently replaced a voting place do to the lack of wheelchair accessibility (And a merger of two voting districts into one do to population lost). I went from voting in a Black Baptist Church hall (Which was UNDER the Church itself, basically a large Cellar with a separate entrance and exit from the Church Itself) to a closed off fire exit of a local Public School (The Cellar had more room, the Hall way is very tight for a voting area, through large for a School Hall).

The Old Church did have some Children's Church projects/pictures in it when we voted but other than that nothing to indicate it was a place of worship or religious training.

One of the biggest headaches when picking a Voting location is the above requirements. No one wants a special room set aside for use just two days a year, thus some sort of multi-use room/hall has to be used. To keep the districts small (a lot of people even today do NOT have cars so voting districts MUST be small to keep the voting locations within walking distance).

Generally I have found that choice of voting locations tend to follow the following groupings:
First, Public Buildings, generally you have some sort of public meeting rooms in such buildings so just make sure no meeting is occurring in that room on Election Day. The problem is most voting districts do NOT have such Public buildings within or near their districts.

Second, are Volunteer fire halls and other public groups that are NOT taxpayer supported. These tend to have fire halls for meetings and fund raisers which can be rented out on Election Days. The problem is that in Urban areas (as opposed to rural and Suburban areas) tend to have PROFESSIONAL Fire Departments which do NOT have such fire halls (Or are tied in with the Public Buildings of the Municipality and thus NOT in every District).

Third are Public Schools, but these can be a problem. Most public Schools do NOT have rooms NOT being used on Election day. The Schools just used every room all day long. Furthermore with recent consolidation of Schools you can have Voting Districts without a Public School in the District. Third often in older URban Schools they are NOT wheelchair accessible.

Fourth tend to be Churches, for often they have a hall, like the Volunteer fire Companies, that is NOT being used on election day. Many churches over the last 30 years have installed wheelchair ramps for their older members, thus are wheelchair accessible.

Fifth, Commercial establishments. These are rare for most commercial landlords want a five year lease AND that the Room be used at least 5-6 days a week (And often all seven days). Do to this commercial need rare. Furthermore most Commercial Establishment tend to be near Public buildings and Fire halls thus it is rare not to use the Public Building and/or Fire hall in most voting districts when commercial establishments tend to be concentrated. Furthermore Commercial Establishment tend to be near bars, Saloons and Hotels where liquor is sold.

Sixth, private homes. After All of the above can not be found, then it is NOT uncommon to use a private home. Churches are preferred for their tend to be bigger than Private Homes but not unheard of.

Remember the above when you are criticizing Cleveland for using a Church as a voting place, where else can you get a room twice a year constantly year after year (People do NOT like changing the place they vote)? The requirements are quite clear, in or near the Voting District and as accessible as possible to everyone in the District. Look at most places and they can be ruled out for NOT being large enough to hold an election. In a voting district without Public Buildings or Public Schools you tend to be stuck with Churches, especially with the Anti-Alcohol rules and the Wheelchair accessible rules.

[SteveG]

43. In Delaware

Public Schools are closed on election day and are used as the primary polling place - usually the Gym or cafeteria. The second typical place are fire halls, and then things like Ruritan Clubs and community centers. Out of about 400 polling places, I found only about 25 that use church facilities and they are for the most part located where there are no other public buildings which can be used.

[MindPilot]

14. If thine voting place offend thee...

vote absentee.

[lonestarnot]

21. Exactree!

[UncleSepp]

35. Hey, that sounds like a good idea!

To me, it seems nice for the church to offer its space. My local voting place is a church, and for me it's always interesting to go into a place I wouldn't ordinarily have a reason to enter. The volunteers are nice. Also, churches make practical sense as voting places, since they usually have pretty good parking, toilet facilities, and space inside to set up the booths. They're buildings designed for people to congregate in that aren't otherwise full of stuff.

If it's uncomfortable for someone, though, mailing in the ballot seems like a good alternative. However, if mail-in ballots aren't counted the same as the ballots cast at a polling place, that could be a problem.

[still_one]

15. I have a solution

VOTE BY ABSENTEE BALLOT!!!

At least then you might have a better chance of it getting counted

[Wilms]

54. "a better chance of it getting counted"?

Precisely the opposite. Where'd you get that notion?

[Lurking Dem]

17. Happens all the time here.

In Tennessee a large percentage of polling places are Southern Baptist or Church of Christ. It does feel a little weird but its not like they have you walking through the sanctuary or anything. Usually it's on the school end of the building.

[Joanne98]

18. The christians are stealing votes, so they shouldn't be counting

them at all.

[kestrel91316]

61. Don't be ridiculous. The staff of the church is not responsible for the

ballots! Only the precinct polling place workers can handle the ballots, and the counting is not done on site.

Don't be such a fool.

I hate the fundies as much as the next person, but even I don't think they should be denied participation in our government. And if they work for the county board of elections, as is their RIGHT, then they are involved in counting.

[POAS]

23. FYI

There is a Jewish Community Center close by this Church and also a large shopping mall as well as C.H City Hall.

[happyslug]

70. Are they in the same voting District?

Just because something is near something else, does not mean it is in the same voting district. I give you an example, In Blair county Pennsylvania a few years ago, the County moved four District Justice Office to one centralized location to save money. THe state then ordered the moved STOPPED, for the law in Pennsylvania as to District Justices offices is they MUST be in the District, not near the District, close to the district or even adjacent to the District, they must be IN THE DISTRICT. Blair County had to close the Consolidated office and open three new offices in the three other District Justices Districts.

The same with voting district, the general rule is the voting place MUST BE IN THE DISTRICT (sometime the term is "in or adjacent"). Thus just because something is "Close" does not mean it is in the same district. Thus these buildings you mention may NOT be usable (i.e. they are NOT in or near the voting District). I tried to google a Voting Distinct map of the area and came up empty, so the issue remains, how close are these buildings to the Voting District?

[NOLADEM]

24. Why the fuck would it matter?

What, do they have a problem with Christians?

They ain't voting for Rabbi.

So, are we going to move all polling places to houses our respective houses of worship, and just kiss the rest of our separation of church and state goodbye?

There should be a federal law banning ALL places of worship from serving as polling places, because some folks won't feel welcome going there.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chi-Town Exile]

31. Self-Deleted

[AlienGirl]

49. It isn't a problem with Christians

It is the specific problem of being religiously prohibited from paying any sort of "worship" to any other deity (in this case, it could be interpreted that entering a church is a way of recognizing Jesus as a deity, which would be considered idolatry).

The more you know... *cue the theme music and little rainbow logo*

Also, there could be the problem of feeling culturally unwelcome, much like asking Wiccans to vote in a Catholic church, or devout Christians to vote in an occult/magick supply store.

I like the idea of using non-religious places as polling places, myself: maybe local schools and firehouses, or else at least let it be known ahead of time if it'll be a religious place so people can request absentee ballots.

Tucker

[AngryAmish]

25. Chicago only recently got all the polling places out of bars

Vote for who your precinct captain said to vote for, get yourself a few cold ones. Worked out real nice.

[Demit]

26. We vote in a room in a church in our division in Philadelphia

It never crossed my mind that this would be objectionable. It never occurred to me that people would think of it as a church. Once the room has two machines in it, with the ballot posted on the wall, with the table set up with the record books and the three people who sit there recording the voters, it's a polling place. Neighbors chat with one another as they wait in line to vote. All kinds, all religions, knowing they are there to VOTE.

Has anyone ever been involved with local politics to know how hard it is to GET a polling place? We used to have it in an old drycleaner's, till the place changed ownership and the owners said no thanks. Now the Republicans are challenging our dinky little room in the church because it isn't wheelchair-accessible. Holy moly! And I don't mean that in a religious way. Insensitive? These folks whining about "insensitivity" should be volunteered to do the legwork involved beforehand in setting up and running a polling place, and then should work the 16 hours on election day, and then maybe they'll relaize there's a lot more to bitch about than how "insensitive" the practical process is.

[Toucano]

34. Ridiculous over-reaction.

It isn't state sponsorship or endorsement of a particular religion, but it is a sad, sad commentary on our lack of municipal facilities that can meet the requirements of the Help America Vote Act.

Schools, fire stations, libraries, etc. would be much better choices. Many places in the U.S. lack all three.

[HuffleClaw]

44. oh, what complete bullshit

here, in the great white north, churches are commonly used as polling places, and i've never heard of anyone whining about it.

[Retrograde]

46. One San Francisco precinct uses Starbucks

the one on 9th and Irving was used as a polling place in the 2004 election. Don't remember about subsequent ones - I'll have to check if I'm up there on election day if they're using it again. Should devout Mormon voters object? Or coffee-lovers?

My own polling places bounces from the common area of a local apartment complex to the fire station to a community room at a local Episcopalian church. We once had a special election polling place in the basement of a Catholic church. Of these, I prefer the Episcopalian church: it's warmer than the fire house, and it doesn't feel like I'm disturbing the residents like it does at the apartment complex.

BTW, there's a big difference between a church hall or other large room and the sanctuary, which is where religious services take place. Using the latter would be even to my lapsed Catholic thinking sacrilegious. The former are spaces the state is renting temporarily.

[AlienGirl]

50. Are devout Mormons prohibited from being near coffee beans?

[oldboy101]

47. I vote in a church too.

Many polling places are in places of worship. However there are no worship services being conducted during the time of voting so I do not see any problem.

If some people are so sensitive about this, I suggest that they request absentee ballots and cast their votes that way. Surely there is no problem with that is there?

[kimsterdemster]

48. Here in the OK...

in a red county and a very small town we vote at the legion hall and there was talk of moving it to the Mennonite Church and people threw a fit, we still vote at the legion hall.

[Zhade]

52. I don't care for polling places being in places of worship, period.

That said, how is this anti-Semitic? Did I miss something in the story?

[Hawkeye-X]

55. My polling place used to be in the Firehouse

And they just recently moved my polling place to a Lutheran church. Now, as an Orthodox Jew, I've actually visited that church before, and I have no problems with it. There's no obvious idolworshipping going on when you enter. No mention of Jesus Christ (The church is called Augustua Lutheran) anywhere.

So I have no problem voting in that booth. Other Jews in the area might, but then again, we got a Jewish Rethuglican running in our district that I've actually asked my Dem state Rep to put his sign in my yard and only 4 houses down from our local synagouge, and he is a member of mine. I don't like him at all.

Hawkeye-X

[silverweb]

57. That's just stupid.

I've been voting in churches for many years and have yet to see the inside of any church proper, sanctuary, or other room with any religious artifacts. Voting occurs in plain, bland meeting rooms.

So they're on church property -- big freaking deal.

If these silly people refuse to vote "in a church," then maybe they should just vote by absentee ballot. I have no doubt that if the tables were turned and some hypersensitive Xtians were being "forced" to vote at a synagogue, that's the solution they'd offer.

Haven't we got enough real problems to deal with? Sheesh! :eyes:

[kestrel91316]

58. Oh for pete's sake. This is just silly. As long as the polling is not done

INSIDE THE SANCTUARY, who cares if it's done on the property of ANY particular charitable group????

It's not antisemitic. If it's such a problem, they can use absentee ballots to their hearts' content.

[RamboLiberal]

62. I don't think they have a case here

I vote in an old steel town near Pittsburgh - neighborhoods are probably very much like Cleveland. If polls are to be within walking distance once many of the public schools have been closed the only suitable buildings left are the social halls of churches. And in this case it is not the church but the fellowship hall that is being used.

Face it, someday some Jews and Christians as neighborhoods change might find themselves voting in a social hall of a mosque.

In my neighborhood when I started voting 35+ years ago it was a public school. School buildings were torn down so for awhile it was in the basement hall of a church. Now it's been moved back to its original location where a senior apartment had been built in place of the school and we vote in the utility room of the senior center.

[TomClash]

65. They're right

Why should anyone have to go to a Christian church to exercise their constitutional right to vote?

[restorefreedom]

67. Big Picture time.

First, we need to get the congress back in dem control to try and undo the horrendous damage done over the past few years. Then, voting issues of all types can be addressed. But if the congress doesn't turn over, this will probably seem like a minor issue, sadly.

[XemaSab]

68. That's lame

When I lived in Sacramento I voted in a synagogue. :shrug:

[XemaSab]

69. The new church is a disciples of christ church

"Disciples ministries don’t stop at the front door of the church building.

We work to make a difference in our neighborhoods and the wider community. As followers of Jesus we help in soup kitchens and food pantries, shelter the homeless and care for children. We advocate for fairness in laws and public policy. The Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) has committed itself to become an anti-racist, pro-reconciling church."

Come on, these people aren't the Southern Baptists. :eyes:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

73. I can understand why Orthodox Jews might not want to enter the

sanctuary of a Christian church, but the social hall?

These are usually just a big, multi-purpose space with a restaurant-style kitchen off to one side. In general, the only indication of religious affiliation might be a bulletin board with a few small notices of upcoming events.

Before Oregon went to all-mail voting, I voted in a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church (and I strongly dislike their rigid theology), but there were no religious symbols visible as you went in the social hall entrance, and the poll workers were drawn from the neighborhood.

And this was in Portland, arguably one of the most non-religious cities in the U.S. (The state of Oregon has the largest percentage of self-identified atheists of any state in the country.)

[Javaman]

74. And so let the Ohio voting weirdness begin!

:popcorn:

since it appears as if all the repukes in that state are about to get their asses handed to them in the election, it's amusing to watch as they try all sorts of shenanigans to prevent people from voting.

Like someone said on here, "vote absentee".