Opponent Outs Florida GOP Governor Candidate

[TechBear_Seattle]

Opponent Outs Florida GOP Governor Candidate

(Fort Lauderdale, Florida) Florida Attorney General Charlie Crist has been the subject of speculation for several years but on Wednesday a political opponent used National Coming Out Day to say he's known for years that Crist is gay.

Appearing on WFTL, a South Florida news-talk station, independent gubernatorial candidate Max Linn said it is common knowledge in Tallahassee that Crist is gay.

And, Linn said it is time Crist acknowledged it.

"Charlie come out, come out from wherever you are," Linn said during an interview on the station.

The full article can be read at http://www.365gay.com/Newscon06/10/101206crist.htm

What is it with Florida and closeted gay Repuglicans?

[MessiahRp]

1. Is it good strategy to "out" gay politicians...

Even if they look hypocrites to us for their anti-gay legislation and slander, outing these people makes us look insensitive and mean.

Rp

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. I have no problem with outing closet gay Republicans

who have lied to the public for years about their sexual orientation, while at the same time supporting a party that promotes hate and discrimination toward other gays.

[MrModerate]

9. I have a huge problem with outing anybody . . .

Public discussion of one's sexuality is the person's prerogative and no one else's. The same goes with sexual behavior: it's nobody's business except that person's partners, unless that behavior is illegal, irresponsible, or unwelcome.

You're for outing "closeted" gay Republicans, but what's the likelihood that you know the whole story about their orientation? Zero. Many people wrestle with their sexuality for their entire lives and it remains an intensely personal issue. Why make an exception for homosexuality?

Not to mention that "outing" leads to gay-bashing and alienation of a constituency that tends to vote for progressive causes, and so is both wrong and unwise.

[mondo joe]

14. No. Outing is simply equalizing.

Heterosexuality is outed on a daily basis.

[Brundle_Fly]

25. Agreed.

Hypocrisy is too just way too big with these gay Republicans.

I mean no surprise there, but with so many gays within Congress, be they aides, or Congressmen themselves, they are supporting an agenda that systematically destroys their own communities goals, all the while wanting that community to shelter them for being gay.

Screw them, out them.

[colonel odis]

17. i agree. and outing someone for political purposes is using

the bigotry and homophobia of others to help win an election.

as crazy as a gay person must be in order to be a republican, outing them isn't fair, i believe. it reduces us to the level of freepers. it's that person's business and no one else's.

[DoYouEverWonder]

36. The Repugs who support the xian homophobic agenda

have made it political, not us.

It would be no one business if they hadn't made it a major election issue.

[jazzjunkysue]

63. Exactly. The moral majority is neither. He's out. Too bad.

If you want to stay closeted, don't run for a GOP seat, that spreads hate and fear.

[DoYouEverWonder]

64. Or if you want to stay in the closet

Don't run for public office.

[jazzjunkysue]

72. Right. There are no secrets any longer, good or bad.

[elehhhhna]

22. A secret like that makes one very easy to blackmail. BRING 'EM OUT!

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

47. Yes, but...

When you've made a career out of casting stones at other people and judging their morality (including their private life), you have nobody to blame but yourself if your dirty laundry gets aired in public.

To look at it another way, if Crist was straight, but had engaged in a series of extramarital affairs, his private life would be fair game as well, and for the same reason. He's made other peoples' character an issue, so his character is fair game.

[pampango]

61. I don't accept the morality of "I outed him, because he outed

people first" argument.

If Joseph McCarthy had accused a politician whom I didn't like of being a communist, part of me would have enjoyed the electoral damage done to the guy. If the accusation was false, which many were, my nemesis' "outing" would be tragically wrong, although I guess I could make him some justification to tell myself that he deserved it anyway.

Even if the accusation turned out to have been true, the politician really was a communist and deserved to be "outed" (let's say he had been staunchly anti-communist in public), well we all know the damage that the McCarthy "outings" did when they got out of control.

So if we are enjoying the short term electoral damage done by the outing gay Republicans done by others, I can understand that and a part of me enjoys it, too. I will not, myself, start casting stones and outing gays, even if someone else has made a career of casting stones. Having taught elementary school and I have heard the "Billy hit me first." excuse more times than I can count, I am not about to advise that we hit "Billy" back rather than show some maturity and class. Don't let the "Billies" of the world dictate what kind of person you become.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

67. That's not what I meant...

If you're a gay Republican, and you use your position to bash gays, then you deserve to be outed. You're telling your constituents that being gay is immoral while you are gay yourself.

If you're not gay and you're constantly finding fault with the morality of others, while you yourself are participating in the same activites that you have denounced, you deserve to have your behavior be part of the debate.

If you make other people's morality a political issue, you have no right to expect that your behavior won't be part of the discussion.

I don't agree with outing people just to make political hay.

[pampango]

69. I only hope that our narrowly focused outings of gay Republicans does not

morph into a more generalized outing of gays. If it we are unable to put the outing "genie" back in the bottle after the election and a new McCarthy takes it and runs with it, I will blame, not just the new McCarthy and his allies, but those of us who thought it was acceptable to out as long as the politician or staffer met our standard of "outable."

[mondo joe]

70. I don't care who in public life is outed.

Heterosexuality is public. Time for equality.

[SoCalDem]

49. When a person CHOOSES to become a public figure

they HAVE to know that anything in their private life will become public property.. It's just that simple..

It's especially odd when politicians don't realize this.. When a republican who promotes ANTI-gay legislation, and is GAY himself/herself, it' s beyond the pale..

If they have "issues" about their own sexuality, they should try to come to terms with it before they enter public life....or they better be prepared for others to cvall them on their hypocrisy..

Gay people can be and DO get elected all the time, and people KNOW they are gay. It seems to be only in republican circles where they trade honesty and self awareness for money and power..

If they are afraid to tell voters who they really are, how can they govern honestly?

[zonkers]

53. Sorry, in Florida or should I say Fraud-ida, you gotta fight dirty and

use whatever you can to stick it to those corrupt fuckers. They'd do it to you in a minute. Out a closeted gay man? Go right ahead. If you didn't, I'd be mad at you.

[timtom]

68. Amen, Brother!

This is probably the best response I've ever seen that speaks to this issue. One's sexuality SHOULD BE a personal matter, not a political one!

[Eurobabe]

33. Bigoted, hypocritical CONS? No problem with outing them

But in general I find the idea very distasteful. Someone's sexual orientation is their private business.

HOWEVER, when these sacks of shit use homosexuality to drive wedges between groups and then deceive the public and lie about their orientation? Bring the outing on.

[DoYouEverWonder]

35. That's right, someone sexual orientation should be their private business

It is the Republican homophobic agenda that is causing the problem. If you are an elected official or party official and you support this agenda, then your sexuality is an issue.

[Zynx]

10. When Republicans are supporting a bigoted agenda, yes.

If they weren't so virulently anti-gay, then it would not be an issue and you could leave them closeted.

[dbonds]

24. What you are really outing is hypocrisy.

You just have to give the details of them being gay along with that to prove the point.


I am a lesbian and don't always make that known, but I never will slandar anyone gay or work against tolerance and equal rights.

[Tarheel_Dem]

26. doesn't make "US" look insensitive and mean.....

from the article, it says the Independent Candidate outed him.

[kestrel91316]

45. Do you think that liberals are meaner to gays than Republicans are???

[Ken Burch]

54. Well, it wasn't OUR candidate who did the outing...

It was the Reform Party candidate, and those people have a reputation as loose cannons with vindictive streaks.

So, while "outing" is a questionable strategy, this shouldn't hurt the Dems in Florida.

[Zhade]

56. If they're anti-gay? Absofuckinglutely.

No quarter for hypocrites and liars. NONE. EVER.

[slampoet]

66. It only makes homophobes see the outer as mean

Everyone who is open minded says "So What?" if the outed person is an innocent closet case and "What a hypocrit!!" if they have oppressed gays in the past.

Anyone who is old enough to run for office has their own apartment and doesn't have to worry about their parents kicking them out onto the streets. No one running for office has to worry about being beaten up at school the next day.

All they have to worry about is the loss of STRAIGHT PRIVILAGE and the loss of a wife or husband (a beard) that they should have been honest with. At least the unknowing wife or husband will be able to have the truth before they get any older.

[no_hypocrisy]

While ordinarily I applaude hypocrisy being called on its face,

I also hesitate in endeavors and policies such as this case. It makes being gay seem like it's a bad thing, which it isn't. By revealing a "dirty little secret", this does nothing positive to change public attitudes towards gays and lesbians. If anything, gays and lesbians become unwilling tools of damage.

[whistle]

6. Being gay is not a bad thing at all, being a republican politician

...in this country today though certainly is a bad thing. If a politician were a Nazi, I think we could see the evil there, being a gay Nazi would not help the person's political agenda. Being a gay republican politician will not help Crist's political agenda for the state of Florida.

[Demit]

15. On the other hand, it might serve to make people confront their attitudes.

They might be prompted to think about what's important—someone's sexual orientation, or how they might govern. And whether the first has anything to do with the second. They are forced to resolve two conflicting (in their minds) facts: being gay is bad, being Republican is good. It might just do that very thing—change attitudes toward homosexuality.

[mondo joe]

16. Disagree. KEEPING it a secret makes it seem dirty.

Heterosexuality is acknowledged with abandon. Homosexuality should not be treated otherwise.

[marmar]

2. I don't think that what Linn did is too cool...

I'm just glad it wasn't the Democrat who called him "out." Seems like the current climate has the feel of a Salem Witch Hunt of sorts.

[rodeodance]

3. yes, I too, am glad it was not a Dem to do this.

[kestrel91316]

46. Hey, if it's a witch hunt against hypocrites, I say "Bring It On(TM)"

[ngant17]

4. Florida could make history this way

by being the first state to elect a gay for governor.

In which case, his party affiliation would not matter as much as the novelty of the newly-recognized celebrity status.

Although I will be voting for Davis for governor instead of his Republican opponent, I think it would be a greater tragedy for the conservative redneck Republican voters of Florida, who perhaps might unknowingly vote for Crist out of party loyalty.

That would be an embarrassment, to say the least.

[pinerow]

12. I've noticed a bit of something in the recent polemic

about whether or not one should elect a "GAY"...I wish someone would clarify that for me...I understand the term "gay men\women"...but I have no clue what a "Gay" is...I've seen it put that way on the MSM's and now in discussion groups...please explain...:wtf:

[LizW]

21. Subtly derogatory

Think about other instances where an adjective is turned into a descriptive noun:

"Coloreds"
"Illegals"
"Gays"

It emphasizes the "otherness" of the "other". It has a very subtle dehumanizing effect. And we know very well why one group chooses to dehumanize another -- it makes it easier to limit their rights and exclude them.

[pinerow]

30. I agree...actually my question was really a rhetorical one

directed at the poster who used it on this thread...you are right...it is much easier to justify the sense of "otherness" once we remove them from the "group"...sad state of affirs...sheesh..!!

[daleo]

28. I think you are reaching here

People commonly say heterosexual, rather than heterosexual man/woman.
People commonly say straight, rather than straight man/woman.
People commonly say white, rather than white man/woman.
People commonly say American, rather than American man/woman.
People commonly say brunette, rather than brunette man/woman.
etc.

[pinerow]

31. No stretch at all..."gay" is not a generic term...

and when used in the way the MSM and some, you notice I said "some"...it is generally meant to convey a sense denigration...the term "Gays" sounds like something that we must prevent from happening and make ensure they stay on their side of the line, wherever that may be...

[daleo]

38. I suppose people can be using codes and such, at times

At other times, though, it can just be a function of the the more abbreviated style of speech that people informally adopt. I guess it depends on context, inflection, audience, that sort of thing. Certainly, public figures (e.g. the media, politicians) have an obligation to be sensitive to these nuances. As you say, they often fall short, sometimes on purpose.

[CJCRANE]

75. I think it's less polite.

Saying "a gay" jars just like saying "a black" or "a chinese". It objectifies the person. Also saying "a white" I think would sound slightly strange, not far from saying "a whitey". A "white man/woman" sounds more appropriate.

[central scrutinizer]

7. irrelevant, unless he is a hypocrite

then out him for being a hypocrite, liar and panderer.

[bleedinglib]

8. Coming out party ??

While I strongly believe Mr Crist has a right to hump any lump he wants too? He doesn't have the right to deceive the people he needs to vote for him. This is whats going on in Washington now and he wants to compound the problem?? Open the doors and let the (son) shine in!!
B-Lib

[gasperc]

11. GOP voters need to search their souls

A sizable chunk of FL's republican voters are vitrolically anti-gay. How they can believe in one thing and vote another is totally beyond me. I think they are more anti-tax and anti-welfare than homophobic. RW christians hate paying taxes and they hate that those taxes might go to people less fortunate than them. This is what they hate and if they can use gays as a lightening rod for that they will. Don't be surprised if they still vote for Crist, nothing about two-faced RW nuts surprise me anymore.

[zbdent]

13. Every time that a Repuke is outed, it should be noted

that first, Repubes think that being gay is a sin and unhuman, and that they believe that being gay is a lifestyle choice ... so why did X Repube become gay?

[Canadian_moderate]

18. Why is being gay even an issue?

Who cares? Is he or she qualified to represent his/her constituents or not?

As for gay people being secretive and closeted, you're exactly not helping the gay people that have already outed themselves or been outed by others.

[TechBear_Seattle]

20. Ask the Repugs. n/t

[verdalaven]

23. It is only an issue if that person supported hate policies

If a candidate runs on a platform of "family values", using his wife and kids as a pr prop, then cheats on his wife and neglects his children - Do you think he should be exposed as the big, fat hypocrite that he is?

Keep in mind that I don't agree with outing closeted Gays. It is a sticky issue, though, when you have someone in office that is hurting Gays with their hateful policies and speech, then they turn out to be Gay? It is just so wrong on so many levels.

[Hepburn]

19. I don't agree with outing anyone about anything...

...unless it has some impact on what he or she does or has done in regard to the public. I am put off by outing anyone just for being gay. I dislike that kind of conduct intensely.

However, I do have some feelings that if some pol has been on the anti-gay bandwagaon and has ridden on this to get elected and in fact, he/she is is gay, then that pol should be outed for HYPOCRISY...not for being gay. I know it's a fine line, but there is enough nastiness towards gay ~~ I find it sickening that someone who is gay would harm other gays for a political advantage.

Edit for spelling error.

[Straight Shooter]

27. Let the truth flourish for once in this country.

Maybe outing Crist and a few other homosexual politicians will make people realize that some people they admire are worthy of their respect despite their sexual orientation. Maybe it will create more than a few "over the dinner table" conversations and cause people to open up a bit more about their own secrets they're carrying around, whatever they are.

I'm not saying Crist is worthy of any respect at all, because my impression of him is that he's simply a creep. But there are obviously a lot of people who admire him, and I don't want that admiration taken away simply because they find out he isn't straight. I want his admirers to examine Crist from the viewpoint of him being a human being, sexual orientation not being a factor.

The bush administration has thrived because of too many secrets. I don't believe in witch hunts, and I personally would probably never out somebody unless it came down to the wire and I knew that person was being a total hypocrite and that by not exposing the secret, I would be causing harm to other people. The privacy of someone's sexual identity, AFAIC, is not sacrosanct when people are being hurt and persecuted.

[Doremus]

71. Let the truth flourish for once in this country. Indeed!

Let's say it again and again. Maybe it'll stick someday.

Let the truth flourish for once in this country.
Let the truth flourish for once in this country.
Let the truth flourish for once in this country.
Let the truth flourish for once in this country.

[flyarm]

29. Crist is a front boy for jeb!!..and we in fl are damn sick and tired

of having the fundies thrown in our faces!! they have stolen our elections, they have infiltrated our party..they have gerrymandered us to death..they have done horrible things to children..( yes all those closeted phony's..and they protect the otherscommitting these crimes!) the headquarters for Jeb's brothers illegal war in in our state..with the holy rollers claiming they are the righteous ones!.. with scientology taking over our towns and cites..enough!!

and now we have a pedophile in our congress ..with our names on it..florida..

enough..out the fucker ..out him now!! he is nothing but a front for jeb to keep running the state and covering up all the crime in our state ..while holding the crucifix!!

get these fuckers out of the closet and let the people decide honestly!

i have had enough..in florida..

fly

[nashville_brook]

34. right there with ya

i'm a florida native, back in melbourne... i say, whatevermeansnecessary.

[JCMach1]

48. If this gets wide circulation in FL, Crist's vote among

the Talibornagain will drop like a rock. In fact, I can't think of a more unmotivated bunch at the moment.

Davis wins if this gets wide circulation and becomes common knowlege before election day.

[David__77]

32. Out him! Out him! Out him!

I'm gay, first of all. These homosexual closet cases are very harmful, just like Ernst Rohm, Hitler's homosexual accomplice. They are the worst sort of male chauvinists, exploiters, and reactionaries and deserve not one ounce of compassion from lesbians and gay men. We have to use all tools at our disposal to disarticulate the enemy camp to the fullese extent possible. We want to destroy their fragile "unity," confuse and disorient them ideologically. Those unprepared to do so are undeserving of victory in this fight.

Crist's a closet homo - throw him to the fundie dogs!

[Divine Discontent]

39. s.d.

I've a similar situation with a guy that refuses he was gay, and he could rise into a political life, should I out him one day (he's a repub now I'm certain. he forwards news max crap)

Part of me is glad that Crist, who I see all the time and think, "he's gay but he's a repub - I don't get it!", has had this happen, but part of me respects the right to have privacy. I guess it comes down to the hypocrisy, although Crist is for same sex unions. If he wasn't I'd be 100% in the out him corner.

[mac56]

37. If Crist is indeed a gay Republican

he's obviously come to terms with the inherent contradiction between his personal life and his political values.

In other words, he's become okay with it.

And if he's okay with it, why not out him?

[Jim Stark]

40. "outing" is wrong

it's no ones business what you do in the bedroom, is it not?

[mondo joe]

43. Being gay is not "what you do in the bedroom".

Sex is private.

Sexual orientation is not -- How can being gay be "what you do in the bedroom" when being straight isn't?

But by outing we do not discuss anyone's sex life. We only say they're gay.

[ecstatic]

41. Is Linn gay too? This could very well backfire

As it is my belief that the most homophobic Republicans are in the closet themselves and fear being outed. So it's hard to say what the effect of publicly outing certain Repubs will be.

[flyarm]

55. NO l iNN IS NOT GAY! N/T

[Kber]

42. Philospohical and moral questions aside

is Crist actually gay? Any other source besides a political opponent's say so? Don't really care one way or another except if "gay" becomes the modern equivalent of "communist" as a political smear.

[TechBear_Seattle]

44. It is certainly a long standing rumor

Rather like Kolbe, Foley and others.

[liquiduniverse]

52. No notable sources have said he's gay...

but there have been plenty of rumors swirling around St. Pete (where Crist is from) for years saying that he's gay. Linn is from St. Pete too, maybe he knows something special about Crist. ;)

[malaise]

74. Has Linn said anything about his plane's emergency

landing on a highway last week.

[Mz Pip]

50. Just glad

it wasn't the Democratic candidate that did it. I am uncomfortable about 'outing' people. There are many reasons why people don't come out. Not all of them are political. Though, I suppose if you want to enter the political arena these days you'd beter be prepared for any and all things secret about you being made public.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[xynthee]

51. Did you hear about Linn's emergency landing in his small plane today??

Just read about it on raw story. He's OK, though.

http://www.rawstory.com/showoutarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wftv.com%2Fnews%2F10071457%2Fdetail.html

snip:

POSTED: 2:08 pm EDT October 13, 2006
UPDATED: 5:50 pm EDT October 13, 2006

Orlando, Fla. -- Reform Party gubernatorial candidate Max Linn landed his small plane on Interstate 4 near downtown Friday and was taken to the hospital, a campaign spokeswoman said.

Linn, a former flight instructor from St. Petersburg, was the only one aboard the Cessna 172, campaign officials said.

He was taken to Orlando Regional Medical Center and expected to be kept overnight, but the injuries were not life-threatening, campaign assistant Nora Wing said.

It wasn't clear why Linn had to land the plane, but Wing said he experienced some kind of engine trouble. Television footage of the plane did not appear to show much damage.

[magellan]

57. Max Linn just got a crash course in the BFEE

No one in their right mind outs a political friend of Jeb Bush and then flies a small plane. Even if that Bushie political friend is also a friend of yours, as is the case here.

Linn was right to out Crist. The Republicon party is chock full of hypocrites and it's time to expose them all...so to speak.

on edit: changed the subject line

[w4rma]

59. Quite possibly. That is too much of a coincidence for my tastes. (nt)

[w4rma]

58. If he was a Democrat it wouldn't have a negative affect on his campaign.

But instead he supports the Republican Party that panders to people who hate gays.

[wageslave71]

60. Is this a good strategy for other Dems?

What about using this strategy against the GOP's McHenry? His sexual orientation has raised some eyebrows in NC. Friday, I was made aware of this article: http://www.gayhickory.com/category/democratic-party/

His opponent is Democrat Richard Carsner who lacks the money to go toe-to-toe with him.

[robcon]

62. Outing someone is a disgusting political ploy.

I hope the voters toss that guy out on his ass.

[cureautismnow]

65. Crist has been asked directly.

He replied that he is not gay. Linn now says he is. Someone is lying.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/08/27/State/Charlie_Crist__A_fuzz.shtml

[AlGore-08.com]

73. The fact that you'll all assumed that this is a fact rather than rumor

Is why outing is such a dangerous, unwise political tactic.

Just because this guy Linn says it's "common knowledge" that Crist is gay doesn't come close to proving that Crist actually is gay.

Back in the day, Looney Toons like Jerry Falwell used to say it was "common knowledge" that Bill Clinton is a rapist, that he had an illegitimate child by an African-American prostitute, that he had Vince Foster murdered, etc., etc., etc. Gossip is not proof.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Crist is not gay. How on earth can he establish that after he is incorrectly outed for being a closeted gay? Won't his assertions that he's straight make him look even more like a closeted gay?

What about his family? What if he has kids? What if his kids are harassed or even beaten up because they "have" a gay Dad?

We can fight bigotry without resorting to McCarthyist tactics.