US helicopter bombs Al-Sadr office in Suwaira, south of Baghdad

[ECH1969]

A US helicopter on Saturday bombed an office of Al-Sadr militia in Suwaira, 45 kilometers south of Baghdad, witnesses said.

Witnesses told Kuwait News Agency that a US helicopter fired four missiles on the militia's office, noting that a number of militiamen were killed and wounded in the bombing, but the presence of Iraqi and US forces made it impossible to figure a death toll.

Clashes between Al-Sadr Militia and the Iraqi forces erupted today in Suwaira, killing nine people, eight of them were militiamen, and wounding an Iraqi Police captain.

http://www.kuna.net.kw/Home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=915009

[TomInTib]

1. This is Death

By this action, our fucking administration has taken it to the Fatal Level.

Moktada al-Sadr has been keeping his foot on the brake.

This is it.

Just watch and see.

[plasticsundance]

8. The US dumbasses with their colonial/imperialistic stupidity

Fail to realize this will happen even if they eliminate Sadr. They just don't get. The very path they have chosen has paved the way toward their destruction.

[oblivious]

2. So much for "US in secret truce talks with insurgency chiefs"

I guess that means Sunni insurgency chiefs.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2574223

[Supersedeas]

34. disinformation comes in many forms

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. Talk about a heavy handed bullshit desperate move.

The USA is completely lost in the middle east. Needless to say, they missed Sadr.

[hatrack]

4. Well, if it wasn't a civil war before, it sure as fuck is now

And we are now officially right in the flaming fucking middle of it.

This should be interesting . . . in a depressing Fall Of Saigon/Siege Of The Alamo kind of way.

[rodeodance]

7. we are not in the middle we support the Gov-most Shite

[hatrack]

10. We didn't even pick a side - we just bombed a Shiite militia HQ . . .

And this was in our efforts to support a government which is majority Shiite in a country that's 65% Shiite, said government which from time to time loses effective control of entire cities.

Meanwhile, back in Al Anbar, which we've just evacuated so that we could go and "save Baghdad", various and sundry militias - domestic, Al Qaeda and otherwise - are holding parades in the middle of the day with hundreds of armed irregulars walking up and down the streets.

What we just did is find a big pile of pig shit and jump up and down in it over and over again, and crossed our fingers and hoped to the Big Comic Book Jeezus whom President Chimp prays to that none of it would spatter our uniforms.

Call me crazy, but I'd say we just "miscalculated".

[saigon68]

23. are holding parades in the middle of the day

It will be a rose petal parade for the mercenaries soon

[yellowcanine]

5. Guess this means we are taking sides in a civil war. Bad move, imo.

[mediaman007]

6. Obviously a result of today's tactical meeting at the White House...

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chulanowa]

25. How... What... Huh?!

300 casualties, or 300 KIA? If it's the latter, that's... I lack words.

[crikkett]

28. I've heard about large # US KIA from 10/11 attack for coupla days now

People are posting clips from initial reports that are then contradicted with later reports of "no injuries reported", and there's one story out there screaming about a coverup that even includes names of the alleged dead.

*Almost* every post I've seen has been deleted!!

I wonder why?

[Henny Penny]

29. Repeating the story doesn't make it true

but when the story carries a long list of names of the dead, surely that is verifiable or not as the case may be.

[crikkett]

30. I wish I knew how to find out if that list is true or not.

And I'm repeating the story not because I wish it were true, but because (as cops say) it makes me "hinky". I hope I or somebody finds out for sure if it's true.

I wondered why W compared Iraq to the "Tet Offensive" last week, because even though we officially lost a lot of men in October, 70 isn't on the scale of the Tet Offensive, and it was the first time I heard W compare Iraq to Vietnam.

Then I read these contradictory stories about what happened the week before. 300 KIA in one attack on the 11th of a month, and a coverup to avoid the inconvenient truth of a body count above 3000 just before elections, it would be death for the GOP. It's unforgivable.

:tinfoilhat:

[grytpype]

9. Don't worry, Bush is making slight tactical adjustments.

He's on top of it.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

21. yep.

you know what, there are people that actually think that way. Can you imagine?

[Temporary1]

11. Please do piss off Iraq's most influential leader

That will certainly lead to peace.

[jannyk]

12. Just when I think we couldn't do anything

stupider, we out do ourselves. When are the mental midgets in charge going to cop on to the fact, that you can't threaten, bully or intimidate people that have no fear of death. For every one we kill, ten spring up in their place.

God save our poor fucking troops

[democrank]

13. Great. Let`s just pour more gasoline on the fire.

What a horrific mess.

[humus]

14. real estate thru attrition or same s... different century

Through all the years since the white man came to Wallowa we have been threatened and taunted by them and the treaty Nez Perce. They have given us no rest. We have had a few good friends among the white men, and they have always advised my people to bear these taunts without fighting. Our young men are quick tempered and I have had great trouble in keeping them from doing rash things. I have carried a heavy load on my back ever since I was a boy. I learned then that we were but few while the white men were many, and that we could not hold our own with them. We were like deer. They were like grizzly bears. We had a small country. Their country was large. We were contented to let things remain as the Great Spirit Chief made them. They were not; and would change the mountains and rivers if they did not suit them.

III.



Tell General Howard that I know his heart. What he told me before I have in my heart. I am tired of fighting. Our chiefs are killed. Looking Glass is dead, Tu-hul-hil-sote is dead. the old men are all dead. It is the young men who now say yes or no. He who led the young men is dead. It is cold and we have no blankets. The little children are freezing to death. My people -- some of them have run away to the hills and have no blankets and no food. No one knows where they are -- perhaps freezing to death. I want to have time to look for my children and see how many of them I can find. Maybe I shall find them among the dead. Hear me, my chiefs, my heart is sick and sad. From where the sun now stands I will fight no more against the white man.



IV.



At last I was granted permission to come to Washington and bring my friend Yellow Bull and our interpreter with me. I am glad I came. I have shaken hands with a good many friends, but there are some things I want to know which no one seems able to explain. I cannot understand how the Government sends a man out to fight us, as it did General Miles, and then breaks his word. Such a government has something wrong about it. I cannot understand why so many chiefs are allowed to talk so many different ways, and promise so many different things. I have seen the Great Father Chief ; the Next Great Chief ; the Commissioner Chief; the Law Chief; and many other law chiefs and they all say they are my friends, and that I shall have justice, but while all their mouths talk right I do not understand why nothing is done for my people. I have heard talk and talk but nothing is done. Good words do not last long unless they amount to something. Words do not pay for my dead people. They do not pay for my country now overrun by white men. They do not protect my father's grave. They do not pay for my horses and cattle. Good words do not give me back my children. Good words will not make good the promise of your war chief, General Miles. Good words will not give my people a home where they can live in peace and take care of themselves. I am tired of talk that comes to nothing. It makes my heart sick when I remember all the good words and all the broken promises. There has been too much talking by men who had no right to talk. Too many misinterpretations have been made; too many misunderstandings have come up between the white men and the Indians. If the white man wants to live in peace with the Indian he can live in peace. There need be no trouble. Treat all men alike. Give them the same laws. Give them all an even chance to live and grow. All men were made by the same Great Spirit Chief. They are all brothers. The earth is the mother of all people, and all people should have equal rights upon it. You might as well expect all rivers to run backward as that any man who was born a free man should be contented penned up and denied liberty to go where he pleases. If you tie a horse to a stake, do you expect he will grow fat? If you pen an Indian up on a small spot of earth and compel him to stay there, he will not be contented nor will he grow and prosper. I have asked some of the Great White Chiefs where they get their authority to say to the Indian that he shall stay in one place, while he sees white men going where they please. They cannot tell me.

I only ask of the Government to be treated as all other men are treated. If I cannot go to my own home, let me have a home in a country where my people will not die so fast. I would like to go to Bitter Root Valley. There my people would be happy; where they are now they are dying. Three have died since I left my camp to come to Washington.

When I think of our condition, my heart is heavy. I see men of my own race treated as outlaws and driven from country to country, or shot down like animals.

I know that my race must change. We cannot hold our own with the white men as we are. We only ask an even chance to live as other men live. We ask to be recognized as men. We ask that the same law shall work alike on all men. If an Indian breaks the law, punish him by the law. If a white man breaks the law, punish him also.

Let me be a free man, free to travel, free to stop, free to work, free to trade where I choose, free to choose my own teachers, free to follow the religion of my fathers, free to talk, think and act for myself -- and I will obey every law or submit to the penalty.

Whenever the white man treats the Indian as they treat each other then we shall have no more wars. We shall be all alike -- brothers of one father and mother, with one sky above us and one country around us and one government for all. Then the Great Spirit Chief who rules above will smile upon this land and send rain to wash out the bloody spots made by brothers' hands upon the face of the earth. For this time the Indian race is waiting and praying. I hope no more groans of wounded men and women will ever go to the ear of the Great Spirit Chief above, and that all people may be one people.

Hin-mah-too-yah-lat-kekht has spoken for his people.

[tkmorris]

20. Aww, hell Humus

:cry:

Thanks for sharing that excerpt. That was quite moving.

And welcome to DU my friend.

[AzDar]

15. Just when one is SURE they couldn't boff things up more completely...

Truly, truly stupid.
Jeebus help our troops until the grown-ups are back in charge.

[Brundle_Fly]

I can't for the life of me see the logic in this.

they can't contain Baghdad, they can't control anything outside it, and there is a guy named Sadr, who has been keeping things cool....

They are so not cool now.

[DoYouEverWonder]

24. Bush said he wasn't leaving Iraq until the job was done

that was code for we're not leaving until we kill every single Iraqi and can keep all the oil for ourselves.

[MrPrax]

37. Good point...

I would have thought that the al-Sadr bunch (Mahdi Army) being relatively moderate compared to the Other Guys, Iranian-inspired SCIRI (Badr Army) who want an total Islamic Republic, would be the natural 'go-to' guy for a western country really wanting to give Iraqis democracy.

But backing the worst most extreme religious faction has been our standard operating procedure since Afghanistan...so why stop now, especially if the exit strategy is simply partition.

Best part about a partition scenario is that the various groups will continue to kill themselves over a long war of re-integration fueled entirely by western arms sales and oil revenue, I suppose.

[Brundle_Fly]

16. I can't for the life of me see the logic in this.

they can't contain Baghdad, they can't control anything outside it, and there is a guy named Sadr, who has been keeping things cool....

They are so not cool now.

[buddysmellgood]

17. New strategery from the meeting with the Generals

[pat_k]

18. Baker probably made some sort of deal with Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim.

I'd imagine our rogue regime made some sort of a deal with Hakim's Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq. Al-Sadr just doesn't sound like their "kind of people."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/18/AR2006041801625_pf.html

. . .Sadr and his followers paint the Supreme Council as a foreign movement; its founders were exiled in Iran when Saddam Hussein ruled Iraq. In a rare interview with a Washington Post reporter soon after Baghdad fell three years ago, Sadr said Iraq should be governed by those who did not flee Hussein's rule. He also has been critical of clerics who remained in Iraq but suffered Hussein's oppression silently.

"The difference is simple: The Hakim family decided to get out of Iraq to fight the former regime, while the Sadr family stayed inside and openly defied Saddam," said Sahib al-Amiry, head of the Sadr-run God's Martyr Foundation. He denied frequent reports that Sadr also receives substantial support from Iran. "Our only relationship with Iran is as a neighbor," he said. . .

BTW, not sure where I pulled the following from, but I found it helpful as I try to get my head around the forces at work.

'Body-Islamic' not 'Body-Politic'

Against the backdrop of these three paradigmatic schemes, viz. 'charismatic theocracy' (Shi'ism), 'egalitarian anarchy' (Kharijism) and 'routinized nomocracy' (Sunnism), we may now adduce what each theory claims, and what it does not claim. It would, for instance, be totally inappropriate to construe them as 'political theories'. The religio-political unity of the Islamic vision militates against the emergence of any autonomous theory of politics in the proper sense of the term.

The state - political community - in Islamic thought is always a faith community, a theo-polity under a divine imperative rather than a secular polity that is a norm unto itself. Or, the best way to describe it would be as a 'body-Islamic' rather than a 'body-politic'. Nor may these theories, as mentioned earlier, be regarded as impartial histories. If anything, these are religious doctrines describing the constitution of the ideal faith community, the community which seek 'salvation' in the light of the Qur'anic revelation (al-Firqa al-Najiya).

nomocracy. n. government based on legal system

[bemildred]

19. I was thinking about that.

Some sort of deal cut.
Time will tell.

It does seem clear that either someone is really stupid or they have decided to pick a fight with al Sadr.

[leftchick]

32. backing the Badr Brigade would mean backing Iran

right? Now how fucked up is that?

[bemildred]

36. Yeah, it would mean SCIRI and the Mahdi Army in open warfare.

In the southern Shiia area, where our supply routes run.

[Harper_is_Bush]

26. That sounds like the beginning of the end. n/t

[xchrom]

27. oh that will go over well.

:eyes:

[malaise]

31. How does Bush sleep at night

during his reign of terror and murder?

[leftyladyfrommo]

35. I doubt he even gives it a second thought.

I don't think the guy is really very deep.

[leftchick]

33. 8 dead

buried waaaaaay at the end of this yahoo article.....


In Suwayrah, 25 miles south of Baghdad, eight fighters of the Mahdi Army died in clashes with the U.S. military and Iraqi police Saturday, said Hemeed Al-Zerkani, a spokesman for the militia, which is loyal to radical anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

There was no immediate comment on the report from the U.S. military.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061022/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq