Australian cleric refuses to quit over "meat" sermon

[Divernan]

Note to Mods: This is a SEPARATE story from the LBN UN announcement about treatment of women in Iraq & Afganistan and a NEW development (3:48 AM EST) from earlier coverage of this cleric, including response of the Australian government & a significant quote about Bush.
www.reuters.com
(go to international news section)

Australian cleric refuses to quit over "meat" sermon By James Grubel
Fri Oct 27, 3:48 AM ET

CANBERRA (Reuters) - Australia's top Muslim cleric, suspended from preaching after describing women who do not dress modestly as "uncovered meat," rejected calls to resign on Friday, saying he would not go until the White House was cleaned out. Sheikh Taj El-Din Hamid Hilaly, the mufti of Australia's biggest mosque in Sydney, angered community and political leaders and divided Australia's 280,000 Muslims over the comments, made in a Ramadan sermon a month ago but only reported this week.

Hilaly attended prayers at the Lakemba Mosque on Friday but did not give the sermon. Surrounded by dozens of supporters as he left the mosque, Hilaly said he would not resign. "After we clean the world of the White House first," he said when asked directly by reporters when he would stand down. The Australian Lebanese Muslim Association, which owns Hilaly's Lakemba Mosque, has suspended him from preaching for three months, but other Muslim leaders and politicians have demanded he be sacked.
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Prime Minister John Howard said on Friday stronger action needed to be taken against Hilaly, who once described Howard,President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair as the axis of evil."I believe that unless this matter is satisfactorily resolved by the Islamic community, there is a real worry that some lasting damage will be done," Howard told Australian radio. "We do not want the Islamic community isolated. We do not want the Islamic community to be an object of criticism and derision."
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His sermon has again strained relations between the conservative government and sections of Australia's Muslim community, which makes up 1.5 percent of the 20 million population.Tom Zreika, president of the Australian Lebanese Muslim Association, said the suspension was designed to give Hilaly time to consider his future and the impact of his comments, and to recover from an illness.
But Muslim leaders in the southern state of Victoria issued an open letter condemning Hilaly's comments and called for him to be sacked. Australia's United Muslim Women Association also condemned his comments.

[leftyladyfrommo]

1. Men!

I think a whole lot of men who aren't Muslim think that rape is the woman's fault.

Personally, I think women should just go around wearing whatever they want - go topless if they feel like it. Men do that. We don't use it as an excuse to jump their bones.

And rape is still a big joke.

Look at Putin's comments last week.

[AngryAmish]

2. or around here

[MrPrax]

5. Yup...

I sorta wondered that when the story first broke...if this 'attitude' is a problem, then there are more than enough samples of misogyny and religion right here. Apparently we are suppose to conflate Muslims with this clown.

Funny most wouldn't conflate Democratic women with the extremist actions of Kathleen Blanco, but I think we are suppose to think there is a problem with Islam and that's why we have to fight them there, so we don't fight them here.

It's a strange tactic given that one is pretty sure that the VAST majority of Muslim clerics in the west utterly reject this nonsense, but the Catholic church lovingly approves is full of this shit...least of which being that inspite of sectarian civil war, enlighten liberalism, human rights appeals, universal suffrage, revolution, public education and the Law, the Catholic Church still won't let a woman become a priest.

This obsessive reporting and hand wringing just underscores the hypocritical racism in the west...do as I say, not as I do.

[leftyladyfrommo]

6. Well, the Muslim Men in the Middle East are pretty bad when it

comes to any kind of women's rights. Women wear Burquas and every little piece of skin must be concealed. That is so sick, don't you think? And then the woman gets stoned to death because her ankle was showing. Things were actually getting better for women under Sadaam but that is all going backward now.

Men around here are mostly just stupid. They ogle and make weird noises but that is usually as far as their acting out goes. I have to say that the women here would kill a guy who acted like the Taliban. I mean the guy would just be dead meat. Women's tolerance for that sort of thing is getting a little low.

[MrPrax]

7. and yet Fred Phelps still lives...

so much for that 'liberal' courage...I agree, I would love it if liberals actually stood up for themselves instead of 'fighting the good fight' with their checkbooks slavishly chasing the latest culture war....like whether stem cells have souls. :eyes:

But funny you mention it, two hours before the US illegally attacked and killed a half a million Iraqis (no, they didn't kill them for showing an ankle, just for living in Iraq under a dictatorship)...women there could walk freely in downtown Baghdad, go into a bar escorted and have a beer without a burqa!!!

Then the US tookover and Islamic law was constitutionally imposed... :shrug:

I think that your genuine commitment to the cause of women is being manipulated by the various powers whose ultimate plans work against that cause.

But then again it is crazy isn't. Not much meat for the traditional labor faction either...

Both sides are trying to convince the average American worker that their unemployed, not because filthy rich shareholders, motivated solely by a couple MORE points, who then fire their fellow citizens and hire foreigners, but the real danger of dirt poor Mexicans, motivated solely to feed their families, are the real danger.

Crazy isn't it...we don't have our shit together, but we are so cocksure that we have the solutions for THEIR cultural problems...

[Shipwack]

14. Don't paint the whole Middle East with the same brush...

In Bahrain (like until recently, Iraq), woman are not obligated to cover up completely, or even at all. Some do, some don't, and the ones that don't are not beaten with sticks, etc.

Things are different is Saudi Arabia. Maybe other places are more or less restrictive, but not every country is the same.

[leftyladyfrommo]

16. It's that ole Sharia law thing.

Its not just the middle east. Women all over the world have a really bad time of it.

[mzteris]

3. what we need to emphasize from his "sermon"

is that men are just ANIMALS who can't control themselves, eh?

[PsychoDad]

4. It won't be up to him.

Doubtless the Mosque hired him and the same committee that hired him can fire him.

I noted he didn't give the last sermon... He might already be toast at the next meeting of said committee.


Peace.


Muhammad (pbuh) said that any mam who showed disrespect to a woman showed disrespect to his own mother who bore him. A great sin in the culture was any disrespect toward parents or elders.

[BushOut06]

8. Is this really news-worthy, or is it simply more Muslim-bashing?

I don't think this is any real secret, how many Muslim groups feel about women. Therefore, is it really news when a Muslim cleric makes a statement like this? Or is this simply more piling on? It's almost like the media is looking for as many negative Muslim stories as they can find, in an attempt to show the world just how evil the Muslims are?

[geek tragedy]

11. Muslims are equally outraged at his comments. It's not about

Muslims, it's about one hateful asshat.

[patcox2]

9. But a feminist can say that men treat women like a piece of meat.

You know, I think its easy not to understand where this guy is coming from culturally. It sounds to me like he is prudish and saying that displaying flesh encourages men to view women as a piece of meat, just as some would suggest that playboy and strippers, by displaying their bodies, encourage the objectification of women, the viewing of women as a piece of meat. The only difference is the degree of undress.

[Marie26]

12. He was defending

a gang rape that some members of his mosque committed. He's saying that if women just dressed in burqas and never left the house, the rape wouldn't have happened. He's blaming the victim, and excusing the criminals. I have no desire to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[patcox2]

13. Ah, OK.

Thats a strange notion arabs seem to have, that men cannot control themselves and the least glimpse of female flesh makes them run amok.

[Miss Chybil]

10. I think the "axis of evil" comment is pretty spot on.

But, it's funny how Howard is more worried about that than the meat comment, isn't it?

[bleedingheart]

15. Misogynist Pigs from ALL Religions use Religion to

subjugate, threaten, and harass women.

They claim to be putting us on pedestals, cover us with burqas and claim that this is a way to "protect" us...but in the end...it is the same story...they view us as property not people.

They are afraid of us women....absolutely deathly afraid of women having any rights. Because they might have to act humanely toward us and that would be more than they could bear....

[bemildred]

17. Australian cleric on indefinite leave after collapsing

Australia’s most senior Islamic cleric has said that he is taking indefinite leave from preaching after collapsing and being rushed to hospital amidst a storm of controversy about remarks likening unveiled women to uncovered meat.

Sheikh Taj Aldin al-Hilali, who suggested that immodestly dressed women invited rape, collapsed today while waiting to meet a delegation of Muslim leaders to discuss his future. Some media reports claimed he had suffered a mild heart attack. He was taken to a Sydney hospital from where he announced his decision.

---

"The right decision is for him to step down. As soon as he does make the decision, the better," said Jamal Rifi, a Lebanese community leader who described himself as a friend of the Sheikh.

"When he realises the magnitude of the damage he has caused the society, he will reach the decision himself. We have been under the spotlight for all the wrong reasons, and as long as he is the religious leader of this community, we will be under the spotlight for the wrong reasons," he told Sky News.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2428945,00.html

[bemildred]

18. Row over Australian Muslims intensifies

A bitter row over the attitude among Muslims towards women in Australia intensified today when a senior Islamic cleric complained that Muslim men convicted of rape received much heavier penalties than white offenders.

Sheik Mohammed Omran said Muslims found guilty of rape were dealt with more harshly than other sex offenders such as members of motorcycle gangs or “football stars”.

He appeared to be referring to the gang rape of several white Australian girls by a group of young Muslim men in 2000.

One of the men, the ringleader Bilal Skaf, received a 55-year jail term - the longest sentence for rape ever handed down in Australia. It was later reduced on appeal.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/31/uoz.xml

[Taverner]

19. Said it once, I'll say it again

Fuck Religion.

Whether it's the Jesus Campers, the Madrassas or this sick fuck...the majority of religions preach faith over reason, and there is the crux of the problem.