Jewish, Muslim figures clash in U.S

[oberliner]

ATLANTA, Oct. 31 (UPI) -- Senior Jewish ADL and Muslim CAIR officials have clashed angrily in a debate over dialogue.

Abraham Foxman, the longstanding head of the Jewish Anti-Defamation League, said Friday that dialogue with moderate Muslims is a "pipe dream" because "there's nobody to talk to," the Religion News Service reported

Foxman was speaking after his speech to the ADL's annual meeting in Atlanta in which he warned about the growing dangers worldwide posed by Islamic extremism and an Iran likely to be armed with nuclear weapons. Foxman, a Holocaust survivor, said the international community was appeasing Iran as it had appeased Nazi Germany before World War II.

When asked about finding moderate Muslims with whom Jewish leaders could hold an interfaith dialogue, Foxman replied, "There's nobody to talk to yet."

"The ADL conditions dialogue with Muslim groups on their rejection of terrorism in all cases. But Foxman said he has yet to find one group to accept those terms," Religion News Service said.

http://www.upi.com/SecurityTerrorism/view.php?StoryID=20061031-074237-3839r

[geek tragedy]

1. Two of my least favorite religious advocacy

groups. They deserve each other.

[Ian David]

2. I unsubscribed from the ADL list because they suck-up to Bush.

They must represent the 16% of Jews who vote Republican (compare that to the 24% of gay people who voted for Bush in 2004, and 2% of African-Americans who approve of Bush).

[JudyM]

5. Whoa - where'd you get that 24% gay figure? Sounds *really* high. nt

[closeupready]

11. Sadly, 24% is correct.

Came from 2004 polling. I remember seeing it in an article in The Advocate, if I recall correctly.

[JudyM]

16. That's just insane. I'd love to know the gender breakdown of that figure.

Found a link to info from 2 exit polls, one said 23%, the other 21%.

http://www.washblade.com/blog/index.cfm?blog_id=155

What could explain this? I know one lesbian who leans to the right, and she's smart, but has never been able to give me what I understand to be a valid reason for that. I think it might have something to do with the fact that the rethugs do such a good job of painting Dems as useless. Some people naturally root for the underdog, while others always like to affiliate themselves with the winning team, the team that carries itself like a winner, at least.

[Behind the Aegis]

8. Baby and the bathwater

There are some things that the ADL has said and done, that I do not support. However, for the most part, they are very active in civil rights issues for all people. The focus is, of course, on anti-Semitism, but they have done work with a number of other groups and spoken out against discrimination enacted against those groups. To say they represent the 16% of Jews who voted Republican is just plain wrong.

[Ian David]

15. Well, I prefer The Southern Poverty Law Center

http://www.SLPCENTER.org

[jonnyblitz]

17. yup. the ADL supports Bush and the war in Iraq

I read the statement on their site.

[John Gauger]

3. Why should only the Muslim group have to

condemn all terrorism? The ADL would never condemn Israeli terorism, so why do they demand that the other group condemn all terrorism? It's clear that they aren't serious about this, they just want to make the other group look bad. This kind of dialogue is not impossible; it happens sometimes. You just have to be willing, that's all.

[Behind the Aegis]

7. The ADL HAS condemned Israeli and Jewish terrorism.

Perhaps you don't know as much about the ADL as you think you do.

On edit:

ADL Condemns Murder of Israeli Arabs by Jewish Terrorist


New York, NY, August 5, 2005 … The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) strongly condemned the murder of four Israeli Arabs by a Jewish terrorist in Shfaram, calling it an "unspeakable act."

Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director, issued the following statement:

We utterly condemn the attack against Israeli Arabs in Shfaram. We are horrified by the actions of the perpetrator, and extend our sincerest condolences to the families of the victims. We reiterate Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's statement that, "This was a reprehensible act by a bloodthirsty Jewish terrorist," and support his call for an immediate and thorough investigation into this unspeakable act.

ADL

[RaleighNCDUer]

9. It's true that the ADL is a long way from the JDL, but it is hyperbole

to claim that there are NO muslims opposed to terrorism, and that all "terrorists" are the same. If you want to dialogue, if you REALLY want to dialogue, you find points on which you agree -- you don't lay down intractable boundries.

That's on the same level as * insisting that we will talk with N Korea about their nuclear program, but not one-on-one and only after they abandon their nuclear program. By accepting those 'conditions' they've already lost the negotiation - you don't give away your negotiation points in order to get a chance to negotiate.

[Behind the Aegis]

10. He didn't say "Muslims," he said "Muslim groups."

Though there is a distinction, I would agree that the idea that there is not one Muslim group that condemns all forms of terrorism is probably not true. Ans while it is OK to agree on some points, it is really hard to talk with groups that are "OK" with the destruction of Jews.

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. And where does that leave us?

Arafat was a terrorist. But there can be no talking to terrorists. So Arafat is marginalized, even though his organization conceded the right of Isreal to exist, and with Arafat marginalized, the even more radical, more intractable Hamas takes power.

Wouldn't it have made more sense to deal honestly with Arafat in the first place, and keep the religious radicals on the sidelines?

Arafat refused to be made an Israeli puppet and start a civil war in Palestine, and so he was made the scapegoat for every terror act committed by Hamas, even though it was the Israeli policies that so limited the power that Israel claimed he was choosing not to use - they figured, he was a terrorist, so he must know what ALL the terrorists were up to.

At some point you've got to hold back, and TALK to the other side. The fact that Hamas came to power in legal elections is a wedge, a point where dialogue can begin - to now marginalize Hamas will only serve to further empower the most radical among them.

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. Oh, so he's publicly denounced the tactics of the Jewish

resistance in pre-1948 Palastine? The guys who blew up the King David Hotel? Who in later years became acclaimed statesmen of the state of Israel?

Or is it only Muslims that have to reject all forms of terrorism in all circumstances?

[Tempest]

6. This ADL?

In 1993, the District of Attorney of San Francisco released 700 pages of documents implicating the Anti-Defamation League, an organization that claims to be a defender of civil rights, in a vast spying operation directed against American citizens who were opposed to Israel's policies in the Occupied West Bank and Gaza and to the apartheid policies of the government of South Africa and passing on information to both governments.

Under great political pressure, Smith later dropped the charges. One wonders what would have happened had an Arab-American or Muslim organization been caught spying with the names of 10,000 people and 600 organizations in their files.

http://www.counterpunch.org/adlspying2.html

[treestar]

12. That claim is one that has been made repeatedly before

there is "no one to talk to." All Muslims are claimed to be rabid extremists who can't be talked to, so they can only be bombed. Collective judgment, collective punishment, and a sickening way to try to defend offensive attacks.

[Malikshah]

13. How is this a clash? Foxman makes a rash irrational statement

and is called on it?

Not much of a clash.

Lovely bit of crap this.